Difference between revisions of "Talk:Hyperion"

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(Homebrew Ruless)
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Removed the description of the second war of armageddon and the months of shame, only leaving the parts that pertain to Hyperion himself. [[User:Josman|Josman]] ([[User talk:Josman|talk]]) 22:22, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
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=Problems with Homebrew Rules=
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We really need to be considering balance with this character, so lets break down what we have and consider cost and effectiveness.  
  
Homebrew rules: There's one big problem with this: He shouldn't have hero stats if this is supposed to be him before he became a prognosticar and if he was a prognosticar he might have hero stats but he sure as hell wouldn't be fighting. Prognosticars don't fight. Setting that aside... Knocked hyperion down to mastery level 3. Don't be a fucking idiot. Hyperion is not on Ahriman or Eldrad's level. No point price listed so I added one, might actually be lowballing it because he has that 4++ invuln to his unit rule. [[User:Josman|Josman]] ([[User talk:Josman|talk]]) 22:22, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
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TO this end, we start with a Grey Knights librarian, so base cost. (110p).
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Add another Mastery Level, so plus 25 points. (135p)
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Add a storm bolter, so plus 5 points. (140p)
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Add a "locator beacon," by which I assume they mean a teleport homer, so plus 10 points. (150p)
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Add a personal teleporter, so plus 30 points. (180p)
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His Grey Wings of Doom rule should have a 5 point tax. (185p)
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His Blade Breaker rule should have a 10 point tax, minimum. (195p)
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Finally, his absurdly overpowered relic, whose points cost is hard to calculate, but I think my reasoning is sound here. His weapon is essentially a mastercrafted paragon blade, and as if that wasn't enough, it's also an Iron Halo that affects his entire unit. So just for the mastercrafted paragon blade bit we have 35 points, and considering it's an AP2 at initiative weapon, there should be an upcharge for it considering that the Burning Blade relic from the space marine codex (a weapon that does the same thing as the offensive part of this one, without the added invuln save, and it has a chance to hurt you every time you use it) and for all that it's 50(!) points. So we have a Burning blade (50p) minus one point of strength (45p), without it's risks of use (60p), with a built in Iron Halo (70p) that applies to an entire unit, potentially adding 10 4++ saves, so let's call the final cost on that ridiculous relic 90 points.
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So we have a 285 point librarian, and that's even ignoring that upcharge most independent characters get in modern codecies.
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Now, for this 285 point character, what do we get? Basically just a ML3 Librarian.
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His Blade Breaker rule and his kickass staff would make you think he'd be good in challenges, but no. By pure mathhammer, a Khornate chaos lord literally less than half his cost can kick his ass unless he relies on psychic powers, and even then every major challenge character in the game will butcher him. There are only a couple characters in the game with points costs comparable to this 285 point sum ([[Marneus Calgar|Papa Smurf]], [[Abaddon]], a couple [[Phoenix Lord]]s), and they'll all butcher him.
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So if you have to avoid challenge characters, you're basically paying an extra 80 points or so to make a librarian into a very bad challenge character.
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I'm going to overhaul his character build considering what would turn him into the most effective and cost effective build.

Revision as of 17:21, 10 September 2016

Problems with Homebrew Rules

We really need to be considering balance with this character, so lets break down what we have and consider cost and effectiveness.

TO this end, we start with a Grey Knights librarian, so base cost. (110p). Add another Mastery Level, so plus 25 points. (135p) Add a storm bolter, so plus 5 points. (140p) Add a "locator beacon," by which I assume they mean a teleport homer, so plus 10 points. (150p) Add a personal teleporter, so plus 30 points. (180p) His Grey Wings of Doom rule should have a 5 point tax. (185p) His Blade Breaker rule should have a 10 point tax, minimum. (195p)

Finally, his absurdly overpowered relic, whose points cost is hard to calculate, but I think my reasoning is sound here. His weapon is essentially a mastercrafted paragon blade, and as if that wasn't enough, it's also an Iron Halo that affects his entire unit. So just for the mastercrafted paragon blade bit we have 35 points, and considering it's an AP2 at initiative weapon, there should be an upcharge for it considering that the Burning Blade relic from the space marine codex (a weapon that does the same thing as the offensive part of this one, without the added invuln save, and it has a chance to hurt you every time you use it) and for all that it's 50(!) points. So we have a Burning blade (50p) minus one point of strength (45p), without it's risks of use (60p), with a built in Iron Halo (70p) that applies to an entire unit, potentially adding 10 4++ saves, so let's call the final cost on that ridiculous relic 90 points.

So we have a 285 point librarian, and that's even ignoring that upcharge most independent characters get in modern codecies.

Now, for this 285 point character, what do we get? Basically just a ML3 Librarian.

His Blade Breaker rule and his kickass staff would make you think he'd be good in challenges, but no. By pure mathhammer, a Khornate chaos lord literally less than half his cost can kick his ass unless he relies on psychic powers, and even then every major challenge character in the game will butcher him. There are only a couple characters in the game with points costs comparable to this 285 point sum (Papa Smurf, Abaddon, a couple Phoenix Lords), and they'll all butcher him.

So if you have to avoid challenge characters, you're basically paying an extra 80 points or so to make a librarian into a very bad challenge character.

I'm going to overhaul his character build considering what would turn him into the most effective and cost effective build.