Talk:Lorgar

I feel kinda sorry for Lorgar, he basically had his faith in the divine ground into the dirt by the Emperor, was chastized and made to look like a fool in front of EVERYONE, and was generally treated like shit by his brothers. I know that Empy's plan was to eliminate organized religion so as to drain Chaos, but doing something like that to his son was definitely not the right thing to do.

Welcome to Warhammer 40,000, where the man least fit to raise a family had 18 sons and everything went to shit because of this. Biggus Berrus (talk) 08:15, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Grimdark be grimdark Gutsm3k (talk) 21:21, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

The bit about chasing down angron ( or any other primarchs) doesnt work as they all are fearless.

It does work because Lorgar can strip them out of Fearless with his psychic powers.

Incidentally with the new rulebook Lorgar can no longer take away Fearless, so I'm going to update that section. Triacom

Why's everyone so scared of putting Lorgar in front of Perturabo? Yeah he's immune to concussive, but when (not if) you make Lorgar invisible Perturabo needs 5+ to hit, then 3+ to cause a wound, versus Lorgar's 3+ (4+ in the new rulebook) to hit, then 2+ to cause a wound, and if Perturabo brings his hammer he's initiative 1, so he's effectively concussed already, and STILL needs 5+ to hit, activate Dark Fortune and you can just make him re-roll that. Triacom

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Is it just me, or does Lorgar look a little bit like incest smith without the chin?--Taumanta (talk) 03:54, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Who's incest smith? -- Triacom (talk) 05:22, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Incest Smith. Might just be both of them being bald guys with high cheekbones, since Lorgy has a nose and a much wider face.--174.30.80.242 07:11, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

I'd forgotten all about him, it's been at least two years since I last saw those pictures. To answer the original question though, I think that might just be you Taumanta, the only similarities I can see are that they're bald and have high cheekbones. -- Triacom (talk) 08:46, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

What does the Urizen mean?

Bearer of the Word-straightforward

Aurelian-the golden, reference to his speaking skills probably

but Urizen?

Pilgrim of Terra (talk) 06:57, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urizen Probably has something to do with all that.

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However Corvus Corax is now consumed by the singular purpose of getting revenge on his traitorous brothers. Corax descended on Lorgar and spoiled his otherwise magnificent appearance after ten thousand years busy doing fucking nothing. Did I miss something major? Is Corax now confirmed to be back? Or is this one of either (a) a factual inaccuracy and this was instead something that happened in the Horus Heresy or (b) simply a madeup piece of writefaggotry?

It's a thing. Corax is back as some sort of shadowy Daemon creature in the short story "Shadows of the Past". Though it's uncertain when exactly the story occurs; it's after the Horus Heresy and the Word Bearers have moved their homeworld to Sicarus. Whether this is as far 40k or not remains to be seen. --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 15:14, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

'Lorgar Did Nothing Wrong'

This:

"Emperor was generally unsatisfied with the slow rate of reclamation by the Word Bearers and due to this regarded him as one of the most inefficient Primarchs. However, this may rather show how incredibly moronic the Emperor could be in his judgement. Yes, Lorgar wasnt as fast in conquests as his brethren. HOWEVER, there are these factors to be considered:

1.Lorgar rarely even engaged in combat. Most of the reclaimed planets were won by word and faith, rather than fire and sword. Consequently from the first one, planets under Lorgar were not been left as ruined, terrorized, Butchered, Desolate shitholes, and newly acquired, intact planets would start giving immediate benefits to the Imperium. In fact, alongside Dorn and Guilliman, Lorgar was one of the rarer conquerors who left the conquered place in BETTER state than before the conquest.

2.One of the main reasons for the slow rate of reclamation by Lorgar was because he spent large amount of time spreading his ideology among local population. Due to his charisma and religious zeal, he would convince the population of the benefits of Imperial rule, how great and mighty humans would be when they would rule the entire Galaxy and so on, to the point that the citizens would become fiercely loyal to the Imperium, rendering a rebellion practically impossible."

is BS.

"Lorgar praised the Emperor and the people of Colchis rejoiced. The Emperor was dismayed. He had long rejected claims to his own divinity. He wished only to unite Lorgar with the Word Bearer Legion, and for Lorgar to join him in his Great Crusade. .... However, as time went on, the Emperor grew increasingly frustrated with Lorgar's persistent claims of his divinity and the Word Bearers' desire to leave no stone unturned in their quest to promulgate the Cult of the Emperor. In his zeal, Lorgar perpetrated terrible acts in the name of the Emperor. Entire worlds were punished for not demonstrating sufficient piety.

As the Great Crusade progressed, the relationship between the Emperor and Lorgar soured. Lorgar was determined to promote the Emperor's supposed divinity and had taken to sermonizing on every human world he conquered or visited. Much valuable time was lost as Lorgar ordered the construction of cathedrals to the Emperor on each of the worlds he had conquered. It appeared to the Emperor that Lorgar was more concerned with preaching than with pursuing the military objectives that he had been tasked with.

The Emperor was also dismayed that Lorgar was becoming evermore merciless with those who refused to accept the Emperor as a god. He was brutal and oppressive in pursuit of righteousness. Religious pogroms characterized the Word Bearers' endeavors on worlds they conquered. Many innocents died at the hands of Lorgar's Legion for refusing to accept the divinity of the Emperor, and those who were not considered devout enough were killed.

The Emperor reproached Lorgar and informed him that his mission was not for faith but for battle. Whilst Lorgar was occupying his time with useless displays of piety, human worlds across the galaxy were suffering under the yoke of alien oppression." Horus Heresy: Collected Visions

I can recall a quote mentioning that the cults of Colchis were making human sacrifices to the Emperor but I'll have to track that down.

Most of that is a retcon. Don't get mad at the page for stuff GW decided to change later, and feel free to add it in if you want, just make sure to give it proper context (ie, mention how that retcon happened and separate it from the earlier fluff). Prior to the retcon the stuff on the main page was absolutely true. -- Triacom (talk) 22:44, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Primarch Math

Just recently I realised Lorgar is eligible for the Orphans of Betrayal RoW... somehow. He's not listed as being an individual Traitor unit and the RoW doesn't disallow legions from having the Traitors allegiance so he technically slips by. In practical terms, this gives Lorgar FnP 4+ in challenges (no, you don't need to have or be fighting units with the LA rule to get it) which should have a major impact in the Primarch Duels. -- Triacom (talk) 01:49, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

As an example as to how much this affects fights, Lorgar under Orphans of Betrayal with Precognition doesn't suffer his first unsaved wound from Horus until round round 4 with Dark Fortune being used at which point he's dealt just over 4 wounds in return (factoring in IWND), meaning he can actually beat Horus in a fight since Horus lacks Instant Death. Statistically he'll win before taking the second unsaved wound. -- Triacom (talk) 02:07, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

It is a strange technical error as you point out though, as the RoW specifically excludes Traitor units but still allows Word Bearers detachments. I'm not sure he slips through though, page 92 of the Age of Darkness Legions book states "The Word Bearers Legions is at the heart of darkness in the Horus Heresy, using the rules presented here they may only be part of traitor faction armies" bearing in mind that book was also careful to label every other Primarch as Loyalist or Traitor, it seems that the blanket over all Word Bearers rules should apply to all their units and their Primarch too, otherwise you could argue for not-Traitor Gal Vorbak and not-Traitor Erebus and put them all in the Orphans of Betrayal RoW --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 05:23, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

It says you cannot take "Traitor specific units" and none of the Word Bearers units are tagged as "Traitors only", not to mention, as I'm sure you've noticed, you do not need to have a Loyalist allegiance to use the RoW. Therefore the Word Bearers can be Traitor aligned, as they must be, but because none of their units (the only thing the RoW limits) are "Traitors only" they technically get everything. You do not get the Loyalist allegiance for taking this RoW however, so you do not get non-traitor Gal Vorbak, or non-traitor Lorgar. -- Triacom (talk) 05:32, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, its a strange one. But also one you probably know how Forgeworld would answer if you asked them... Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 05:44, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm assuming if they didn't want to have Traitors allowed in that RoW they wouldn't have included the Word Bearers at all. That they did tells me they planned to allow Marines with a Traitor allegiance to use it. Maybe it's representing Chaos infighting? -- Triacom (talk) 05:47, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

I personally assume that they didn't really think too hard about it when they wrote the rule and until now no-one really spotted the inconsistency with the wording. Forgeworld can seem a bit dozy like that. But yeah; Chaos infighting, sure. Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 05:54, 11 August 2020 (UTC)