Talk:Noblebright

Update: Added several sci-fi Grimdark games, including Killzone, Gears of War, Resistance, etc.

For anyone wondering why Killzone is ranked more "Grimdark" than the infamously gory Gears of War, it's because the Killzone universe is about men brutalizing their fellow man, unlike man brutalizing aliens or aliens brutalizing humans.

Soooooo.... NobleBright Ciaphas Cain. He actually gives a shit and tries to be a hero on purpose, but is extremely incompetent at everything?

The tone of the stories is optimistic (for Warhammer 40k) as it is. I think it is semi-ambiguous how unheroic Cain is, and his evil twin is the grimdark one.--50.89.218.186 07:34, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

I question some of the items on the lists. Isn't Simpsons Grimbright because it's almost impossible for any real change to happen? And isn't Madoka NobleDark, because while most can't change the world, both Madoka and Homura have managed it?

Battlestar Galactica is named in the list of Noblebright stories. I cannot fathom how it would be bright, as humanity is constantly on the brink of extinction and most people are depressed/frustrated because of it.

And then they hit a casino for some R&R...

My name is Albert. This literally translates into "Noblebright" in Old German.

How is Animorphs supposed to be noblebright? Nobledark, maybe, but it's definitely not bright. 168.8.249.62 18:22, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

This page would be more helpful if a simple, concise explanation of what bright vs. dark and noble vs. grim are. The current explanation is a bit confusing.

Is Firefly really noblebright? Examining the series (i.e. ignoring the film) makes me wonder: it might not really count as Noble due to the rather small-scale effect of the exploits of Serenity's crew. The biggest thing they achieved was to take down Niska, without killing him, and that probably only affects the frontier. They can't bring down the Alliance in the series and the entire reason they're able to operate at all is because no one in the Core knows or cares they exist. Now Firefly might not be all that Bright, either: ordinary non-protagonist folks regularly get sick, get shot, or simply starve or suffocate when their rickety old junker falls apart (which almost happens to Serenity in Out Of Gas), and if they do survive the dangers of the fringe the (expanding, corrupt, violent) Alliance or their murderous associates (Hands of Blue) might still fuck them up for whatever reason, which is still preferrable to the even more common threat posed by the Reavers. --This unsigned comment was made by 2003:db:43d2:5300:10cb:4a35:8da6:d873 (talk). Four tildes, ya jackasses.

I'm not sure Morrowind is the best example for "Noblebright", either, to tell the truth. I'd probably say Skyrim is the better example of the Elder Scrolls that is Noblebright, since it squarely fits into the definition. Morrowind is more Noble Neutral or maybe even a tad Noble Dark on the scale, I would say. If one takes the time to fully examine the flavor text of Morrowind and the Dark Elves, it's actually a pretty awful place to live. The land itself is fully of bloodhungry murderbeasts (and freaking cliffracers) and is a volcanic ash-laden wasteland that one has to struggle to survive in (and St. Veloth chose the land specifically because of that struggle to strengthen his people because of the difficulty). Their entire society was informed by the virtues of Daedric Princes - two of which are massive assholes and one of which is a vindictive, jealous prophetess that will intentionally lead you into a disaster if you irritate her; some of these 'virtues' being secret murder, ambition, and hedonism. Sure, the Tribunal is the ruling divinity at the time of ES III, but we all know Sotha Sil is dead, Almalexia is a crazy bitch, and Vivec tries to have you killed despite yourself and he being the last, failing bastions against Dagoth Ur - whose corprus disease would make Nurgle squeal in delight. This also isn't accounting for the numerous other horrible shite - like the Telvanni whom enslave the n'wah (and sometimes other Dunmer) with a euphoric bug musk that they sometimes drug people with to the point of feeling ecstasy while performing their extremely painful and sometimes fleshwarping experiments (Dark Eldar wizards anyone?). Life in Morrowind is basically stuck between the machinations of the various noble houses, the deadly wildlife, the risk of becomming a sleeper by the music of one of the Ascended mindraping you in your sleep from afar, ash storms making you a disease-ridden beast, slave uprisings, being food for one of the local vampire clans, or being called a heretic and murdered by the Ordinator Inquisition because you said Vivec's sermons are kind of weird, among other things. I'm not exactly sure, therefore, that this qualifies Morrowind as a "Bright" setting. --This unsigned comment was made by Neino Ranatos (talk). Four tildes, ya jackasses.

Let's be real here, this entire list is pretty inaccurate. In my personal opinion, over half the media listed on the Noblebright side of the list is most definitely not Noblebright, as it is defined on the page. I think there could be some merit to a deeper discussion of the individual media with the intention of sorting these based on the pictured "alignment" chart found on this page. For the moment, I think I'll add a statement above the list about the arguable nature of the contents. Probably a link to the Skub page. What page doesn't benefit from more links to Skub? Virtuous Villein (talk) 02:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Should there even be a list on this page? Personally I think it just clutters the page up. If there has to be a list then make a page for it.

Perhaps it might be better to create tests for whether something is Grim/Noble Bright/Dark? Signs that something is a Noble Universe? Signs that something is a Dark universe? Sort of like how tv tropes does it. It will still be skubby, but at least we can start defining the terms rather than adding and scrubbing examples.

Im thinking something like this.

• A city in a noble universe is held together by few individuals of extraordinary talent.
  • It is bright because those individuals are able to build a city that is good all thanks to ideology of author here
  • If it is dark, the city has been ruined because of the actions of a few individuals. Were they malicious? maybe, they could also be misguided. But the city can still be made right again.
• A city that is grim is the average sum of its environment.
  • a grimdark city is inescapably miserable. Who leads it? It doesn't matter. The "rulers are just as much of a prisoner of the city as its underlings." It could be because of the natural character of the people who inhabit it, or perhaps the environment it was made on.
  • a grim bright city functions whether you want it to or not.

Do this for characters, companions, main protagonist, antagonist,cycle etc.

--Wammnebu (talk) 23:20, 28 July 2020 (UTC)