Talk:Scrollhammer 2nd Edition

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Revision as of 01:43, 6 July 2014 by FatherDuke (talk | contribs)
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Alright, I went ahead and created a calculator for determining the average damage taken per turn by particular models against another. You may download it [1], as an OpenOffice excel sheet. Here's the calculations I ran before the most recent update-

Key: Name, stats- numbers are Wounds Taken Per Turn. Lower numbers are better.

OLD RULES: Blocking is +1 to ARMOR

UNPROVEN: 7AGL, 6ARM, Spear

  • Skeleton attacking Unproven: Block-0.583 Parry-0.340
  • Orc (Hand Wep) attacking Unproven: Block-0.833 Parry-0.602
  • Orc (Claymore) attacking Unproven: Block-0.917 Parry-0.622
  • Bonelord attacking Unproven: Block-1.444 Parry-1.203
  • Brown Dragon attacking Unproven: Block-1.944 Parry-1.404

DUNMER WARRIOR: 8AGL, 6ARM, Shield (+1 to block)

  • Skeleton attacking Dunmer: Block-0.417 Parry-0.243
  • Orc (Hand Wep) attacking Dunmer: Block-0.722 Parry-0.486
  • Orc (Claymore) attacking Dunmer: Block-0.833 Parry-0.535
  • Bonelord attacking Dunmer: Block-1.167 Parry-1.043
  • Brown Dragon attacking Dunmer: Block-1.833 Parry-1.134

LEGIONARY: 7AGL, 7ARM, Tower Shield (+2 to block)

  • Skeleton attacking Legionary: Block-0.167 Parry-0.243
  • Orc (Hand Wep) attacking Legionary: Block-0.417 Parry-0.522
  • Orc (Claymore) attacking Legionary: Block-0.583 Parry-0.602
  • Bonelord attacking Legionary: Block-0.556 Parry-0.972
  • Brown Dragon attacking Legionary: Block-1.44 Parry-1.32

ORC AUXILIARY: 8AGL, 8ARM, Claymore

  • Skeleton attacking Orc: Block-0.278 Parry-0.116
  • Orc (Hand Wep) attacking Orc: Block-0.583 Parry-0.340
  • Orc (Claymore) attacking Orc: Block-0.722 Parry-0.421
  • Bonelord attacking Orc: Block-0.833 Parry-0.602
  • Brown Dragon attacking Orc: Block-1.667 Parry-0.972

As you can see, in the vast majority of cases parry is better than blocking. Only low Agility highly armored units (I.e. Imperial Legionaries) would get the most use out of block.

I went ahead and gave blocking a buff- with the new test parameters, Blocking with a shield will grant +2 ARMOR, and Tower Shields would grant +3 ARMOR but count as Heavy, preventing sprinting. Here's the new numbers-

NEW RULES: Blocking is +2 to ARMOR

UNPROVEN does not change

DUNMER WARRIOR: 8AGL, 6ARM, Shield (+2 to block)

  • Skeleton attacking Dunmer: Block-0.280 Parry-0.240
  • Orc (Hand Wep) attacking Dunmer: Block-0.583 Parry-0.486
  • Orc (Claymore) attacking Dunmer: Block-0.722 Parry-0.534
  • Bonelord attacking Dunmer: Block-0.833 Parry-1.043
  • Brown Dragon attacking Dunmer: Block-1.666 Parry-1.134

LEGIONARY: 7AGL, 7ARM, Tower Shield (+3 to block)

  • Skeleton attacking Legionary: Block-0.083 Parry-0.243
  • Orc (Hand Wep) attacking Legionary: Block-0.277 Parry-0.521
  • Orc (Claymore) attacking Legionary: Block-0.416 Parry-0.601
  • Bonelord attacking Legionary: Block-0.334 Parry-0.971
  • Brown Dragon attacking Legionary: Block-1.166 Parry-1.324

ORC AUXILIARY does not change


Looks quite a bit better. All of the Imperials have had their Tower Shields replaced with the normal Shield, now allowing them to sprint, but keeping their tankiness at the same level. These changes allow Blocking and Parrying to be on much more equal terms.

A bit crunchy of an update so I'll clear this out semi-soon.

--FatherDuke (talk) 07:34, 11 January 2014 (UTC)


Some Suggestions

  • House Dagoth
    • Ash Poets are stronger versions of Ash Ghouls, you seem to have those two switched around
    • You might want to consider changing the top tier House Dagoth slot to Ascended Sleeper rather than Ash Deathguard, if only because the former are so iconic to the Sixth House. But either way that's more of a matter of personal preference.
  • Order of the Black Worm
    • Sload Warlocks NEED some sort of teleportation and/or levitation. With out it they're going to have a pretty tough time even just getting to the conflict.
    • Worm Anchorites are high priests of the order. Worm Eremites are the pseudoliches, which seem to be more along the lines of what you were going for.
  • General
    • "Scrollhammer" is a bit archaic if your system is no longer based on warhammer, don't you think? Maybe something like "Scrollfinity"? Just felt the need to point that out.
    • If you're feeling like adding any more faction, I can post my notes for some of the armylists we never started in 1st ed. if that would help (Wildfolk of Valenwood, Pyandonean Raiders, Vampire Clans, Sload, etc.).

Well anyways, good luck with this. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 21:14, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Ash Poets and Ash Ghouls have been name-swapped in the most recent addition. I've been kind of debating adding in Ascended Sleepers, but my biggest reservation right now is that they'd be like 90 point gods that just incinerate everything. I'll probably end up adding them regardless, for inclusion sake. Running a single Ascended Sleeper against a whole enemy force could potentially be very fun.
I was running a playtest with a Sload and this turned out to be a huge problem. I've added in a low mana ability for them to jump like six inches and it should help a lot. Noted on the Worm Anchorite- I was going for a sort of undead wizard, but wasn't quite sure what to call it. An actual pseudolich would probably be many more points, or at least I imagine.
Agreed on the name. I've been tempted to call this version Elderhammer, or something of the sort, because that would sound awesome. Lolpwnt pointed out that if I retain the Scrollhammer name people will have a much higher chance of recognizing what it's all about.
Notes are always welcome. I've been reformatting the .pdf and prettying it up the past couple of days, which is VERY tedious. Looking over some brainstormings would be a nice change of pace.
Thanks for the feedback. Can never get too much. --FatherDuke (talk) 10:34, 15 January 2014 (UTC)


Ah, so you were looking for something inbetween an Anchorite and an Eremite. Well, in keeping with the theme of Christian ascetic nomenclature, a few minutes on Wikipedia returns the term "Rassophore", which should probably be suitable enough for what you were going for. Anyways, I threw up a page for the musings I've had about some of the other army lists, so have fun with that. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 16:35, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Not gonna lie, that Sload list is metal as all hell. I'd totally run that if the models existed. --FatherDuke (talk) 11:50, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Feel free to ask if you have any questions or want elaboration on any of that. While I never had enough material to make an army for a proper wargame for any of those factions, there should be enough stuff to make skirmish forces out of them. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 03:25, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Valenwood soon(TM). --FatherDuke (talk) 17:42, 3 February 2014 (UTC)


Yet More Commentary:

  • Sixth House
    • Ash Poet should probably be buffed, and Ash Deathguard should probably be nerfed; the former should be stronger than the latter. To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't be opposed to removing the Ash Deathguard altogether, if you want to just keep to the iconic Sixth House forces.
  • Tombas of Hammerfell
    • Not sure if Ansei are too powerful to be in a skirmish game like 2nd edition. In 1st edition I was going to make them somewhere around 150-300pts.
  • Aldmeri Dominion
    • DEFFINATELY needs more mage units. Maybe Spellsword and Magister?
  • Wildfolk of Valenwood
    • Jasqpur should probably be a bit stronger
    • Androphagi, being frenzied barbaric cannibals, should probably be weaker.
  • Saxhleel of Black Marsh
    • I know a lot of people were asking for werecrocodiles to be in the Argonian list. While that unfortunately was not lore appropriate, you might want to add in Tanza-Ra Warriors as a close equivalent.
  • Pyandonean Raiders
    • If the magic user is only going to be 30pts, then it would be better if they were called Ophimancers rather than Serpent Sorcerers, as the former is just a rank-and-file mage, while the latter would be just a bit shy of a telvanni councilor in terms of power.
  • Order of the Black Worm
    • You misspelled Eremite as Eromite
  • Vampire Clans
    • Cattle are the comatose, force-fed blood cows. The mindslaves, which is what you were going for, are called Thralls. A bit pedantic, yes, but I would much prefer it if terminology was kept as close to the lore as possible
    • Unfortunately the name "Neonate" was already used by a Thalmor unit, and while I prefer to keep terminology from Morrowind, it might be better to switch the name to the skyrim equivalent of "Fledgling".
    • If you are limiting Vampire clans to only one mage unit, Mistwalkers might be a more dynamic option than the specialist Necromages.
    • Stalkers could stand to be a bit more stealthy.
    • This is more of my opinion about game design than constructive commentary, but whatever: I think it might better if you removed Skeleton Champions(in my opinion it would be better if they were exclusive to OotBW) and Ghouls(these guys haven't been used since Arena, so their canonology is dubious at best) from the Vampire Clans list. To compensate for the loss of those two units, Vampire Neonate/Fledglings could be nerfed a bit, and a Vampire Bloodkin unit could be introduced between Neonate/Fledglings and Stalkers.

Great work so far, by the way. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 20:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll be sure to reference these observations when I get around to the next update. --FatherDuke (talk) 00:37, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I added the half-finished shit I did for the Barbarians of Tamriel compendium to the notes page I posted earlier, for the sake of completionism. So have fun with that, I guess. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 16:33, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Question then. Are there any plans to add in the artifacts of Tamriel and individual army books? As it stands now. I do not care for how lackluster the army lists appear compared to the first edition books. Although I will admit it looks a lot cleaner. This also brings up the question of will unique hero units be placed in as well? -- dragoon508

Artifacts of Tamriel; yes. And yes for individual army books. While the're going to be way shorter than the 1st edition ones, there's some fun stuff we could include in them. I was thinking maybe more special characters, some faction-oriented scenarios or dungeon delves, and stuff of that sort. I'm currently involved in a large, different project, but feel free to tell me what you would like to see in the new books, and there's a good chance it will be included when I resume work on Scrollhammer.
Lolpwnt made a neat Falmer codex for 2E, which should serve as example of what the army books should be like.
--FatherDuke (talk) 01:43, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
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