Talk:Tau

Military Tactics

So why is the description of the Tau's military tactics a cut and paste job of the Systems Alliance tactics entry from Mass Effect's Codex, with some additional fluff and changed names? --99.147.136.227 06:35, 9 April 2012 (BST)

That last paragraph needs fixing but I can't actually figure out what the fuck it's trying to say in the first place --92.236.148.225

fixed for you, I was theoritizing taus may actually be a remnant of extinct Necrontyr race.--78.176.227.177 00:02, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

NOT Communist

I was fucking bored, so I searched around and found that Tau culture resembles vedic-era India, as opposed to communist Russia/China, etc. Just wanted to make that clear. 24.229.194.171 04:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. There are a lot of civilizations throughout history who were big on command economics of one sort or another. From the ancient Sumerians to the modern "new economics" people who espouse the merits of governments compassionately sharing their resouces to eliminate all human misery, and for (then less) individual governments to intelligently intervene in their own economies. It's been done throughout history with varying degrees of success. I'd say the worst offenders were the Inca, whose authoritarian rule mandated that not only they manage the entire civilization at their command, but also that everything in that civilization was property of the great Inca (king).

The point is the Tau are big on command economics. (So to varying degrees is the Imperium, for that matter.) Is their something in particular that makes you think that the Tau are more like one human civilization than another? 76.111.80.228 18:09, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

My main reasons are the caste system, charictaristic of that era in india. The different parts of society had different roles, assigned from birth. I forget the exact roles, but they definately had a lead caste (was/took the role of clergy.) I didn't know they belived in command economics, but the castes and "For the Greater Good" mantra are both of Indian origion, not that of communism.

It's just a different flavor of totalitarianism, so I'd say that the designers intentionally played this part up, even if they weren't originally supposed to sound like commies. They just sound asian, and communism is still somewhat present in Asia, so it's probably not a coincidence. Taus are not just Japanese or indian, they are Asian. Even their writing looks like hebrew, and that's middle-eastern.

remember that the tau caste system is actually genetic as the different castes are effectively sub-species - the air caste had wings and due to evolution the entire air caste sub-species is adapted to life in zero gravity environments - try giving them a pulse rifle they will break most of their bones firing the thing

• The Indian caste is different, in the it has a clear hierarchy, while the Tau's are on equal paint, an high ranking Earth Caste is equal to a Fire or Water Caste on the same level.

-The entire communist thing I do not really see. Hell the imperium can be considered more communist in its work system than anything we have seen in about the daily Tau's life. What we read mainly comes from the fire caste side of things. Also another thing that puts them away from communism is the clear ranking system. Not everyone in each caste is the same rank which goes against one of communism's primary tenants. If anything the caste system works more like a government bureaucracy with tests for each new rank

So to put it plainly Communism is probably the farthest thing they are from.

From master of orion 3 manual.Citizens of a Unification government are conscious of themselves as individuals, but are willing to sacrifice their individual interests about what is best for society, and are willing to sacrifice their individual interests (or lives) should this prove necessary." (p. 91, manual)

There that is the government type -Dragoon508-

The Imperium has nothing to do with communism. At all. It's plainly fascist, has been that way through the whole of 40k, and there's really no argument about it since equality of all has never even been in consideration for its political structure. Its work structure is the direct control of big organizations by an iron-handed government. Meanwhile, the Tau expect everyone to contribute as much as they can to the cause of the Greater Good, which very much resembles "from each according to ability, to each according to need." Compare it to the Imperial "from each according to ability, to each a t-shirt and flashlight." --Boss Ballkrusha (talk) 22:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd argue that, while not Communist per-se, they are collectivist. Yes, everyone's supposed to work towards the Greater Good. Yes, their society is rigidly stratified into social classes/castes when getting rid of all of these things and making a classless society is pretty central to Marxist Communism. Like Chairman Yang, of Alpha Centauri fame, they're using elements of Communism to do their own thing, even if the central system is just collectivist. --165.82.96.110 20:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Minotaurs?

I'm in an argument on a discussion page over at Tvtropes, and I'm trying to claim that the Tau, in addition to being Space Communists and Space Asians are Space Minotaurs, what with the hooves and the horned battlesuits and the harmonious culture and the being led by druids and the having of the shorthand for "Taurus" right there in the name. What is the consensus of /tg/ on this matter? And if you agree, could you stop by here and back me up?

Hooves and radio antennae constitute a minotaur?

Horned battlesuits...? You mean those things on the side of their heads? Those are antennae for comms. And aren't minotaurs usually, like, brawny? Instead of thin and weak and blue? And minotaurs usually have bull-like heads, don't they? A snout instead of just a little slit in the face?

No, man, that's complete bullshit. Jes Goodwin explicitly wrote in his concept art that the "hooves" are actually camel toes. The thing about antennas is bullshit as well: big antennas are just weeaboo. And "Tau" is just a corruption of "Tao", the "Way". The consensus on /tg/ is that it has nothing to do with cows, and the only ones who bring out these stupid arguments are merely trolls trying to make us believe that tau are furries.

I didn't know that, had no intention of trolling, and sincerely apologize.

Necron Proxies?

Another bit of evidence: In DOW:Soulstorm the Tau deploy a massive energy cannon on their moon base that can bombard the planet below. Said cannon has the expressly given attribute of "harming only organic matter while leaving structures and vehicles intact." Gee, what faction would both A) Have a ton of uses for such a weapon and no moral qualms about using it and B) Be the only faction utterly immune to it effects.

Chalk it up to Soulstorm stupidity/Tau retardedness.

Answer: A) Any faction fighting Tyranids or Orks or anyone, really, who didn't want to lose valuable structures on the planet below. B) Any faction who doesn't have anyone deployed on the planet's surface.

Unbuggering this article was a pain in the butt.

So, turns out some butthurt Imperialfag basically vandalized the article over the course of an entire year to vent his private grievances about the Tau. Other people have cleaned out most of it already, I think I mopped out the rest. Still irritating as balls. --71.226.98.222 04:18, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The overview needs fixing on the ripping off other's ideas bit as it's laughably false. Beastment aren't ripped off from Broo. They're all (Broo included) inspired by Satyrs, which predates any game system and versions of these appear in MANY fantasy realms. ALL of the Greater Daemons are from D&D? C'mon... That entire paragraph just needs to go, as it's just someone with some proverbial axe to grind being obnoxious.

Water Caste can be kinda jerks.

The book Fire Caste has a high ranking member of the Water Caste going mad with power after the Ethereals with their detachment die. A story in Damocles has a Water Caste diplomat who works towards the Greater Good, but explicitly states that he doesn't truly believe in it, ultimately just seeing it as the best way to let him indulge in his Tzeentch-esque, "Just as planned" manipulations of planetary populations. Might it be worth mentioning that the Water Caste can sometimes be a bit too smart and manipulative sometimes?

The troopers who had an Ethereal in close proximity that died did not turn suicidal or morbidly depressed? Turning into a sociopath sounds like a lucky outcome to me. I don't think that character in the story should be held up as a typical member of the Water caste. --NotBrandX (talk)

Tau(Castes)/Elementals(Trueborns)

I don't know how to ask it, but some time ago I had "renewed" my view on BattleTech universe fluff and I couldn't left some similarities go unnoticed. So did GW actually.. "used them as inspirations"? Even through they also were inspired by multiple sources, this seems like a transaction of already "concentrated" material.

Suddenly, Mont'ka

So the brand new piece of shit Tau propaganda piece called Mont'ka came out and massively changed a lot about the Tau, like how they're now easily as powerful as the Imperium's best (in the book three Stormsurges not only heavily outrange a lot of knight titan's with their cannons, but when one Knight actually does shoot at him, the shells literally bounce off of them, the three stormsurges also kill half of the entirety of House Terryn, without even a scratch in return) and three Stormsurges are attacked by an entire Mechanicum force, in close range, and presumably kill them all because the Mechanicum's ground forces are gone for the rest of the book so they now have good melee units.

In addition, the Tau are no longer expanding, they're stuck in their own little sector, confined by the entire nebula being lit on fire, and Exterminatus through lighting the atmosphere of a planet on fire for several days (at minimum) no longer works for killing the Tau on the planet so they're now immune to Virus Bomb Exterminatus.

It wasn't a Virus Bomb but a regular Fire Bomb, and the city was shielded like that Under the Dome thing. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 00:08, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm fully aware it wasn't a virus bomb, do you know what the difference is? Virus bombs don't last as long. If they can survive this, they can survive virus bombs. Also the shielding shouldn't have worked, I've mentioned the bread in an oven analogy on another page, and that's because heat isn't something that you can block just by a wall, regardless of what it's made of. If you're inside a building while the world around you burns, you are fucked. -- Triacom (talk) 06:52, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Aren't things happen in the far future? With unbelievable technologies that defy gravity, electromagnetism, and relativistic theory? Sure heat-absorbing shields are no big deal compared to the void shields of imperial fortresses, that could withstand the bombardment that blows to bits the planet they're standing on. Mezmerro (talk) 07:02, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

There's still limits, the Tau don't have access to a kind of magic that makes them everything-proof and in past stories virus bombs actually were the key to wiping out shielded installations because of how they would cook everything hiding in them (in fact in one of the previous Chaos Space Marine codices Horus uses this tactic). For the shield to keep out that much heat, 24/7, it would need to be capable of being projected all around the base, including through the ground the all the way around the base (sealing it in a full bubble) because heat travels through a hell of a lot more than the air. Now, considering that the Tau ships DON'T have shields on their ships that can withstand this kind of heat when the fire was enacted, why would the buildings be able to when the Tau still need to build shields capable of taking that kind of punishment? It does say at the end of the book that they've only just started building them after this event. Either they have the shields to start with or they need to build them, in this book they have both. -- Triacom (talk) 07:17, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

One more thing with that, if the Tau actually do have shields capable of holding back that kind of onslaught, then there's no reason they needed to fight the Imperium in the first place. The Imperium has literally nothing that could penetrate that kind of defence, which brings into question how their other bases with the same shields fell. One way or another, it's just really shitty writing. -- Triacom (talk) 07:26, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

It's a regular writing thing. 40k fortress shields had always been goofy, capable of withstanding exterminatus-grade orbital bombardments, but not continual shelling with some silly earthshaker or demolosher cannons. It's the kind of a plot device that justifies land campaigns and sieges instead of just magma-bombing all outer defenses to shit and launching a drop-pod/grav-chute assault on the keep in case there's something or someone valuable there. GW and BL writers did it all the time but suddenly when it's not Imperium vs Chaos people start going apeshit about how stupid the very concept is. Oh, and about virus-bombing firestorm cooking enemies inside the bunkers: it didn't work in the books. In fact, it failed to cook a dreadnought standing in the open for the entire duration of that firestorm.Mezmerro (talk) 08:11, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Here's a quote from a previous CSM Codex I mentioned, when Horus uses a virus bomb against a shielded city: "The gases released during the accelerated decomposition process ignited, swathing the entire world in a superheated firestorm that turned the sealed hive cities into mile-high ovens. Twelve billion died that day, and the psychic feedback of their collective death scream reverberated throughout the warp, echoing through the eternal realm of Chaos and drowning out even the pure light of the Astronomicon." I also don't remember any city before now that was capable of withstanding "exterminatus-grade orbital bombardments", would you mind citing them? I ask because I'd genuinely like to read that part and if a dreadnought somehow isn't cooked or decomposed, then that's just a different example of terrible writing, because I know that Horus did use them to cook dreadnoughts as well. -- Triacom (talk) 16:04, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Neither do I remember such city. I do however remember a few fortresses - the Fang, Hydra Cordatus, and of course The Rock - the last one was actually stress tested by an exterminaus and survived. One of the Night Lords short stories also mention Officio Assasinorum listening post/fortress capable of shrugging off an orbital bombardment from qute a huge fleet, yet they pop it's void shields with a few dozens of Vindicators. And of course the usual bunkers on Isstvan III that kept loyalists of the traitor legions alive through the virus bombing and subsequent firestorm. Mezmerro (talk) 22:47, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

None of those were subject to the extreme Exterminatus that the Tau survived though, as I mentioned previously, virus bombs don't last nearly as long (and orbital bombardment is entirely different) which is a factor as the heat would build over time. An easy way to get around this is if the book mentioned that the shields had held back the heat but it was still building, and considering they had to abandon the planet anyway I don't know why they didn't do that. Incidentally if Mont'ka is to be believed (which I don't, I'm just using it for the sake of argument), the Imperial ships have an extremely long reload time as far as orbital bombardment goes, which would explain why other places have enough time to restore their void shields against those barrages. -- Triacom (talk) 06:17, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Some silly firestorm is nowhere near to "extreme exterminatus" - it does not even destroy the planet's crust, like the Cycloninc Torpedoes or the planet itself, like the two-stage version of the above. It does not even melt metal and burn through concrete like the atmospheric incinerator torpedoe. The fire it burns with is just a flaming gas, virus-bombing style, the kind space marines can effortlessly withstand for minutes, while joking about how it's nowhere near the fire from a proper flamer. Mezmerro (talk) 07:57, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

I feel compelled to point out that Crysos Morturg and his whole squad survived an actual Virus Bomb by merely welding shut a cargo container with a flamer, Indiana Jones-style, and the one dude who dies died because it wasn't even hermetically sealed. Virus-bomb firestorms are short lived, like a planet-wide whoosh bottle, so they shouldn't make ovens out of hives, but blasted away smokey rubble. I'm just saying, if Tau shields can protect you from plasma they can shield you from this everburning fire. Otherwise, land engagements other than land-grabs wouldn't have much reason to exist, kinda like Star trek's "if teleportation exists, why do we have ships". -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 18:37, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Heat doesn't remain a constant over time, it builds, along with pressure. Claiming that a firestorm that lasts several days is weaker than a flamethrower is laughable at best. Mind you too the time Horus used Virus bombs to cook a planet he was continuously dropping them as well. I'll definitely admit that it's not nearly as extreme as the other things Mezmerro mentions (and presumably they don't use those because the book forgets the Imperium had them or they didn't want to have the Tau outright lose). I'd also like to point out that Crysos was a Psyker whose specialty was in not dying, which is more than can be said for any of the Tau. -- Triacom (talk) 20:40, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Seems like I never added that part, but I also disagree with Mezmerro on the nature of the fire; that's simply no normal flame. Even if they say it's just ignited pollution, it looks kinda like Phosphor to me; can't be phosphex because that's unavailable. However, do remember that heat builds but only up to a certain point, up to the temperature of the actual flames and no higher. Then again, can we really apply science to a fire that never fucking ends, completely disregarding the need for fuel and oxygen? I've never taken those things seriously. Quite biased, I know, but if a fire can burn forever then a shield can prevent heat transfer. That's physics in the 40th millenium guys! And about the virus bombs, what you need to drop constantly are the actual life-eater virus canisters that turn everything into highly flammable slurry. The actual firestorm is started by "a burning lance" (probably a laser). And that didn't last long: "for the briefest of moments it was as if a new sun had been born" (p. 47 HH1). And many survived even in re-sealed, previously stormed un-shielded buildings without either Crysos' or tau-shield magic (p. 49 HH1). -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 09:24, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

My problem with them surviving the fire is still that the book says they don't have the shields to survive the fire (as they still need to develop them), and yet they do. It's either one or the other. Like I said before though, if they just established that the shields would eventually fail (crossing the Damocles Gulf sure isn't a quick journey) then that would have solved this problem relatively easily. Also I did say that Horus was continuously dropping the virus bombs (not dropping them then continuously igniting them), just dropping them doesn't mean they'll ignite, you need to fire something else to do that. -- Triacom (talk) 13:08, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Like I said in the other talk, I don't think the ships waded through the fire in space unharmed because they're stated to come from Dovar. Farsight left the same way. On a side note, could humans bypass the flaming blockade through the warp? I was wondering of the Archeotrove's extraction route after setting aflame everything. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 19:28, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

And like I said in the other talk (maybe we should just continue this over there for simplicity) you're mixing up Prefectia and Agrellan. I also don't see any reason whatsoever on why the firewall would stop the Imperium, and somebody who wrote a review of the book definitely agrees with that, to the point that they think this should be game over for the Tau: "The Imperium's Warp drive allows them to bypass the event barring their continued advancement. They have been permitted to use Exterminatus level bombardments on targets and now have the resources free to launch a large scale crusade. Hell, they don't even need the ground forces, just the ships. The Imperium could have ships simultaneously launching virus bombs on T'au, Vior'la and Dal'yth within months, an act which would cripple the Empire. There's nothing here to suggest they can't or shouldn't do this either, and the Empire is only spared because the plot demands the Imperium retreats." For the record, the reviewer is also a huge Tau fan.

omg I can't read that muuuuuch...today. BTW (And this goes for EVERYONE ever), when placing a link to an outside-web avoid writing the "|" that you'd usually place for articles within this wiki, because "|" equals to "%7C" at may make a link to register as broken. Just place a space between the web direction and the text that you want to be shown. Regarding Prefectia vs Agrellan, I do need to be reminded of the part supposedly I'm confusing about the two - what I know is that Mont'Ka happens entirely over Agrellan (or at least that's what I understood). Respond in Damocles talk, I guess. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 00:06, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm not forcing anyone to read the whole thing, which is why I gave the link, but put the important bit in italics after the quote (with the link acting as a citation). Anyone who really wants to double check this can easily do ctrl+f with part of the bit I linked as well. I'll keep that linking type in mind, though I do always double check my links before saving the page. -- Triacom (talk) 01:40, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Also apparently the way that Tau defend planets listed on the page is now incorrect, they build a lot of space stations they assume will be able to hold off any invasion force on any Sept World.

They actually did it on Dal'yth too. The point is they only set up their heavy deffences on the sept worlds that work as the keystones, while other planets of the sept are still lightly garrisoned, relying on either getting reinforcements from the sept world or evacuating to it in case the threat is too much to hold before reinforcements could come. As you rrmrmber, Argellan/Mug'ulath were set as a sept world so it being reinforced with space stations and huge garrisons of troops is only natural. Mezmerro (talk) 13:36, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

That does make sense, that part of the page could be edited without losing anything then. -- Triacom (talk) 18:51, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

So I was curious how we should change the page, since Mont'ka is now canon. Should we change the page wholesale, or add another section explaining what Mont'ka changed so that what was established in the previous editions wasn't lost?

Personally I'm in favour of the latter, as I really hated Mont'ka. It's a book so shitty it forgot that the Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum have Commissars, vehicles other than the Leman Russ (some are mentioned, but don't do anything, and are never brought up outside that one mention), as well as multiple Psykers and multiple Commanders (there's one, and ONLY one ground commander for the entire planetary invasion). It also forgot that the Tau have other races on their sides (they appear and then vanish into thin air), and at multiple points it literally makes the Tau invincible (heavy bolter's rounds bounce right off of them) or makes more Tau reinforcements appear from thin air, quite literally. In the end the Tau win by virtue of bullshit, by which I mean the book cuts away any time they're about to lose, and then says they win instead of cutting back. I called it Tau propaganda because it reads like Propaganda somebody in the Farsight Enclaves would make, it's that bad.

Lastly this is a book that made Assassins weak and slow enough that almost all of them are easily detected and killed (the book doesn't even have a real reason why the Callidus and Vindicare are detected) because they're not even effective in a fistfight against regular soldiers, but that's fine since the Tau win the fight without any of their commanders to lead them. -- Triacom (talk) 12:12, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

The Callidus is detected mainly because plymorphine copies shapes instead of more exotic organ functions (pretty much [this]). Yes, there's that Callidus who copies an Eversor and runs the risk of becoming insane, but it's up to you to decide which sucks more - this book or regular BL crap (hint: both, sometimes). And the Vindicare shows up in Darkstrider's Analyzer because, despite being a 360MLGNoscoper, he's a human after all and, admittedly, that's no defense against Darkstrider's XV-plot armor. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 00:08, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

That's not true, the Callidus can take the form of creatures far smaller then themselves, which would require them to shrink their organs and they can alter these organs to any extent they want, which is how one assassin modified herself so that she could quite literally swallow a human child without hurting it. If they couldn't copy organ functions then it would be extremely easy to spot any of them given what the other races have.

That's not changing organic function, but merely the shape (how small did that Callidus get?). I'm talking about morphing an Ethereal's mind-controlling pheromone gland. We don't even know the Imperium is aware of it (or how much does it understand), given the document where that was written was heretical. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 18:37, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Whoops, I just realized I forgot to answer this question. The Callidus was able to turn herself into a Grot. That's how much they're able to alter their own bodies. -- Triacom (talk) 00:39, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

That's a fair point then, I guess the Callidus wouldn't be able to do that, though I will say it's odd that Shadowsun would notice the Callidus didn't have it when she's wearing a sealed battlesuit (and nobody else) and it definitely doesn't excuse that she was able to outfight the assassin, or why the assassin didn't use certain things like the Neural Shredder on her right away, which is also my problem with the Vindicare, as soon as Farsight's bodyguard moves in to protect him, he starts shooting at the Tau army instead of his target even though he should still be able to kill him. -- Triacom (talk) 20:40, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

The plot armor is strong in her; at least they could have said the ethereal being impersonated was Aun'Do instead of making one up. I'd say she removed her helmet for him - that's akin to wearing a gas mask when meeting the president. And I guess she noticed something off because, being high command, she spend lots of time with ethereals unlike most of the other tau present. I know pictures are hardly believable, but you can see her drone took the neural shredder shot. Then again, she was supposed to be atop some dunes, but at least drones and shield drones are written to be there too. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 09:24, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

That could explain a bit in how she realized something was wrong then, though it still doesn't explain her physical performance, or why the assassin doesn't use the Neural Shredder on her (she uses it on everyone except her). As far as blocking it goes, The Neural Shredder isn't a pistol loaded with bullets, a drone can't block it, and in all likelihood probably wouldn't be affected by it in any way, not to mention the pictures in Mont'ka have nothing to do with what they're supposed to be about, just look at that picture of the Eversor vs Farsight for example (why are the Marines there?), or how about the shot when the Titan shows up in one image despite the fact that they have none? -- Triacom (talk) 13:08, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm arguing how assassins were detected, not condoning the fact most of them failed. I mean, Farsight would be dead twice already, or at least one of the Eight besides the AI. Although I think a drone would be destroyed by a neural shredder too, even if it's attuned to melt minds instead of electronics, otherwise a mere drone flock would kill a Callidus. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 19:28, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Assassin's aren't meant to be invincible, and the Callidus's physical abilities combined with her Phase Blade mean she'd easily be able to take on a flock of drones, especially since they're fast enough to appear to dodge shots fired at them (something the hack of a writer completely forgot about every Assassin). If you're worried that she'd need to get close, the Neuro Shredder is already a close range weapon so it wouldn't matter either way. -- Triacom (talk) 22:14, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

They do avoid several shots in this books, although Shadowsun surviving a close combat with a WS8 assassin is bs (but maybe that counts as a "removed as casualty"?). And I was talking about needing to dispatch the drones in ranged combat because I forgot drones can't really fly, lol. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 00:06, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Also the Vindicare is caught because "Somehow the Tau technology was picking something up." Darkstrider doesn't spot him when he's hidden, a drone does through the power of bullshit. -- Triacom (talk) 06:52, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Not only the drone detected him, a mere Pathfinder team had detected him before it. Independently (both of them failed to report) Darkstrider detected him too. "Something had flashed up on the periphery of his prototype structural analyzer". Expect to be detected when Tau have multispectrum, density scanners and that heartbeat sensor that appears on "Alien". Don't think I condone their defeats in this blatant Tau propaganda, the book loves to highlight the Tau are "perfect" but being named characters it was obvious to me the writers were forced to make the assassins fail. I was actually surprised by Aun'Va's death. Turns out Pariahs have plot-stealth-generators. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 18:37, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Truthfully I forgot about the pathfinder team, though I thought that the reason the assassin showed up on Darkstriders radar was because the drone put out a signal to everyone nearby and he happened to receive it, and even then he still doesn't find him until the Vindicare starts shooting. I don't expect him to be literally invisible, I just expect that not everyone can detect him. Squads actually equipped with the equipment required to detect him would make sense, and if a pathfinder team found and killed him before he opened fire I'd honestly be fine with it. One more thing with that though, the Culexus have always had that dimming effect on both people and technology, if anything he's the only assassin who actually retained the abilities he was supposed to have, whereas for others, like the Eversor, the author forgets that they're supposed to explode when they die. To be honest I was surprised at his death too, I expected his honour guard to kill the assassin in close combat, just like what happens with Shadowsun. -- Triacom (talk) 20:40, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

The Eversor does explode, man - last paragraph of page 100. Honestly I had forgotten about most Culexii abilities, but all other assassins looked fine to me, if only to crash against plot armour. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 09:24, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Well I actually have to apologize for missing the Eversor's actual death scene, I guess I either didn't read it initially or forgot that the text under some images was actually important (or maybe I was disgusted at how everything the Tau and Farsight do was described as perfect that I completely forgot). You know what would have made more sense? If the Culexus went after Shadowsun, because on reflection the Animus Spectrum probably shouldn't have been as effective against the Tau as it normally would be and so at least she'd sort of have an excuse for standing a slight chance against it (though how she wins is still bullshit). -- Triacom (talk) 13:08, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

I think I should say something else as well, I don't hate the Damocles Crusade, and I really didn't want to hate this book. My favourite Tau stories are in the 3rd edition book, because it displays the Imperium as competent, the Tau as adaptive, and it does so without making either really overpowered in comparison to the other. It also gives good reasons as to why the Imperium doesn't just declare exterminatus against the Tau planets as a whole, whereas in this book there's no reason for them not to, and if the roles were reversed, I'd have the same problems. If the assassins killed their targets by showing up out of the blue, winning, then leaving like Farsight does in this book I'd have equal problems with that, but as it's written the book is so biased towards the Tau, that even though their commanders were absent through most of the final fight they still win it no problem (not to mention being able to do things they shouldn't do, like outranging everything with their shorter ranged guns). Look through the book, count how many times a Tau soldier does something and the word to describe the action is "perfect" or "perfectly." It just gets ridiculous. -- Triacom (talk) 20:40, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

I know! The writing is rather disapointing, to the point of making Tau the new smurfs, and Kauyon was even worse. I had high hopes for this book because my favorite armies are IG and FE, but this book was pretty much "Pask ft Darude Sandstorm". In fact, Farsight's suplement has way more Mont'Ka than the actual Mont'Ka book and added a lot of fluff, instead of being a blatant "Buy some Tau!" propaganda. I shall read those previous codexes, as I'm constantly reminded those were the good stuff and the like. Thanks for the advice man. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 09:24, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

• So here's something I realized just now about the Tau, not only are the Gue'vesa non-canon, but they now endorse slavery. By that I mean they invade Agrellan, take it over, repel the Imperial fleet sent to reclaim it, then enslave the remaining human population, the book specifically saying that they were sent to labour domes or mining colonies, and in case you think they had a choice in the matter, the quote is "No thought or effort had been given [by the Imperium] to freeing the former Imperial citizens trapped in labour domes on the planet or shipped to far off mining colonies." So it wasn't their decision. Fuck this book, or maybe even fuck this edition. It's not bad enough that the Tau have a "You're with us or against us" stance, offering peace once and then invading without even trying further diplomancy, but now they're into the same kind of enslaving the Imperium does (and apparently enslaving anyone who says no) when they should already have drones to do that work for them. -- Triacom (talk) 11:00, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Again, they always used "re-educatonal labor camps" on those who rejected the generous offer of the Greater Good. The point is "re-educational" part is not only in the name, as they truly try to, well, re-educate captive humans and indoctrinate them into a Greater Good. And while drones can indeed do that work faster, better and cheaper, the point is labor is the part of re-education process. Also in the Tau Empire NOTHING is your decision, even f you're a citizen. Especially if you're Tau. Your superiors decide who'd you gonna fuck for pete's sake.Mezmerro (talk) 11:35, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

The book never once even tries to claim that the Tau are trying to re-educate the humans, not to mention it never says that state is temporary, as it's written the humans are sent to labour domes or mining colonies, where they are trapped there until... Well until the Empire has no more use for them I guess. Even in the main Tau rulebook I didn't see any evidence of them trying to re-educate humans, and this could have been easily fixed, if only the quote was: "No thought or effort had been given [by the Imperium] to freeing the former Imperial citizens being 're-educated' in labour domes on the planet or shipped off 'to be re-educated' in far off mining colonies." If I've missed it, please correct me (and point out where it says that) but I don't think I have. -- Triacom (talk) 21:10, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Point is concentration camps are not about slavery - they're about, well, concentrating undesirables away from the rest of the population, and loading them with work is mandatory to prevent unrest and probable riots. Tau did it on Taros with IG prisonners (until they lost their ethereal and stopped taking prisoners), and it worked well.Mezmerro (talk) 22:22, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't think they're concentration camps though, the book never makes mention of that, and given how much the rest of the book misrepresents characters I don't think concentration camps were the intention either. -- Triacom (talk) 03:27, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Dude, we've always known Tau "re-education efforts" are full slavery, it's not anything new. They did it on Taros, they did it on Dawn of war. Even their own citizens are being manipulated, why not POWs? The humans they do manage to re-educate become auxiliaries or something, but they're always second-class citizens. And death to those traitors, anyway. I actually loved the Imperium fully knew there were POWs and did nothing to help them, for the mission wasn't so much a reconquest but a punitive action. Grimderp. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 00:08, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

It is slightly new, in all previous works the Tau only sent the people who resisted them to be reeducated, in this one there isn't a single Imperial citizen not sent off to labour domes or mining colonies. -- Triacom (talk) 06:52, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

And that's why the Imperium is better when it comes to private life. Yeah, as bad as it is for legit or grimderp reasons, nobody will tell you (well depends on the planet) whom you should bang. - Ben (talk) 16:13, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Imperium does tell you what to think, doing otherwise is heresy. But at least you can bang anyone you please, unless Slaneesh. There's always a "But" -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 00:08, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Hold on there, gentlemen. Isn't it normal for them to jerk off over a faction when they need to sell it by any means necessary? They're probably just exaggerating how awesome it is to meet sales quotas, by a few months from now it'll be back to Marine wank. Don't underestimate the power of the almighty retcon.--Newerfag (talk) 05:40, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes indeed, it is standard procedure to drop cheese on the faction you want to sell. It is infuriating enough to dwarf the Damocles Gulf with our textwalls, tho. I mean, Tau got an actual update, even new stuff (in Kauyon). The Imperium got a dead chapter master (who never even got rules), millions of dead, humilliating defeats and these "Catachans" felt like Tallarns to be honest, and what IG got was more a rescue from obsolesence rather than a true update. Isn't that right, Ministrorum Priests? RAGE! -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 06:52, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Imperium always sells well due to being the designated protagonists (see: the metric fuckton of Spehss Marines). GW can't consider actually making xenos compete on an even playing field with the Imperium, so they have to take the opposite stance and make them OP just long enough to get them selling until it goes back to "all Marines, all the time" mode. (And saying that these are textwalls are an understatement, I think now this talk page is longer than the actual article, and even more so if you count the Damocles Crusade talk page as a continuation of this.--Newerfag (talk) 07:11, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

It's pretty darn funny tho. But what truly got me was the fact that IG gets utterly roflstomped, even with millions of everything. Can the IG actually beat some xenos without the aid of the SM? Where could I find IG defeating Tau (or other xenos)? As in, where they win the conflict, not like Taros. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 07:43, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Nicknames

The nickname part and it's importance surprisingly is actually taken from the Roman culture, which is weird, given most Tau culture tend to be based on China and Japan (except for their social and government structures which are copied almost verbatim from Plato's Republic).

Chinese used Courtesy names given to people after birth to better "repersent" them (seeing as most Chinese names are descriptions/definitions of what a parent sees in their newborn). It wasn't until the May Fourth Movement, that this practice started to die down, but still commonly happens. --JimCanuck (talk) 01:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

I've added this to the new xenos category.

Hey /tg/ just wnated t tell ya that I added this to the new xenos category. Thanks guys/possible gals

Warhammer Fantasy - Tau are Lizardmen

I think this entire section needs a major rewrite,, as there is one rather glaring omission from the races that are related to the Tau in Warhammer Fantasy, and blatant speculation on some of the more abstract areas of the lore.

To me, the Tau have always been crude descendants of the Lizardmen. They both live in a heavily caste based society, with specified soldiers and artisans/engineers. They both are led by a numerically inferior group of genetically different leaders, who utlise hovering chairs to move around. They both have decided that certain species need to be purged in their entirety to make way for their specific universal view. They both feature the most obvious non-European culture in their respective settings. Both utilise more primitive species to assist them in battle. Both have characters with names that liberally use apostrophes. There's even a case to be made about them being polar opposites of Chaos, or potentially biological weapons, due to the whole "no presence in the Warp" malarkey.

It seems to me that the original writer of this section looked at the design of the Tau, and went "Ah yes, they must be connected to one of the Oriental groups from Fantasy", instead of actually looking at the lore and seeing the rather obvious similarities.

You're really stretching here, the only real similarities between the Tau and the Lizardmen are the caste system and in the case of the Lizardmen that wasn't the result of a fucked up evolution, that was how the Lizardmen were designed by another species who they worship and follow the commands of to the letter (if not the spirit if the letters can't be figured out). Also unlike the Slann, Ethereals don't normally use those chairs, that's mainly Aun'va since he's so old and most Lizardmen don't have apostrophes in their names either, so saying they do is also stretching it by a lot. If those are really what we're looking at then they have more in common with Chaos Daemons as it's more common with their names and Epidemius sits on a chair. Both the Lizardmen and Tau feature non-European culture but this isn't a link, their two cultures are so different to one another that saying they're the same is to be willfully ignorant. The Tau are also in no way opposites of Chaos as they do have a warp presence (saying they don't have one just highlights how much of the setting you don't know), it's just slightly less than a human's presence. It's not low enough for them to be unaffected by the warp or Psykers, and even humans that are possessed and later exorcised have far less of a warp presence than Tau do. -- Triacom (talk) 15:36, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

How large is the Tau Empire?

A recent edition to this page mentioned the Tau Empire is 24 Planets, while the main info-box for the page says a hundred. Which is right? And are these considering civilized and colonized planets or just planets within Tau-controlled systems, because if it's the last one, the Imperium would also have way less (but still a fuckton) of planets; somewhere around 80.000 I'd bet. TheWiseDane (talk) 23:26, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Technically the Tau do have a lot more planets within their empire, however only 24 have any sort of inhabitants and some of those are extremely small in terms of population (real world cities have more people than some of those worlds). This also includes the Tau's allies by the way, so the planets that are purely Tau are even less than 2 dozen. People inflate the number to make the Tau look larger than they are, while failing to mention that the Tau don't do anything with the vast majority of planets because they don't appear to be able to do anything with them. The Imperium on the other hand considers a planet an Imperial planet if there's Imperial citizens on it, which considering how even death worlds with no atmosphere have AdMech on it to study experiments in a sterile environment with no risk in case of a horrific accident, ends up being a shitload of planets still. -- Triacom (talk) 08:36, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Just went back through the codices, if we were to discount the planets that are allies and the other planets that are technically have Tau on them but only in the form of a survey squad, the Tau used to have 18 pure Tau planets, thanks to 8th edition that total is now 20 (they lost some and got some new ones). -- Triacom (talk) 08:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I figure I might as well add one more bit, if we were to include any and all planets with any sort of activity on them, including Tau allied planets like the Kroot-held ones, no matter how minor the activity is, then the total comes up to 36. There are 20 Tau held worlds, 6 Kroot Held worlds, and 10 worlds of miscellaneous import ranging from "might as well mention this" to "I guess the Vespids live on the rocks that float around this thing". I'm honestly not sure why people keep saying the Tau have a hundred planets or more. -- Triacom (talk) 08:55, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

People claim it has 100 planets because the idiots at the WH40k Fanon Wiki set that as the max for fanon empires on the basis that the Tau apparently have that many. --2001:8003:3800:800:31C8:CA3A:2763:15D2 06:44, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Oh, so it was just idiots who have no idea how small the Tau Empire is? All right then, guess they can join the ranks of the Black Library writers who also have no clue that the Tau have relatively limited resources (for example, in the first incarnation of the Damocles Crusade the Imperium wiped out the Tau's fleet, and that was it, the Tau had no more warships, that never happens anymore). -- Triacom (talk) 06:51, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Lumping the WH40k Fanon Wiki in with Black Library is an insult to Black Library. /s --2001:8003:3800:800:31C8:CA3A:2763:15D2 07:04, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Black Library published both Farsight: Crisis of Faith and Aun'Shi, they also made the Beast Arises series, if anything they deserve each other. -- Triacom (talk) 07:10, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

...true. It wouldn't really surprise me if Goto was an admin for the Fanon Wiki. --2001:8003:3800:800:31C8:CA3A:2763:15D2 07:15, 15 January 2019 (UTC)