Talk:Ultramarines

This article is just a copypaste of the Lexicanum article. A section describing how /tg/ thinks the Smurfs are boring mary-sue jews would have been nice, but the faggot OP is too much of a lazy fuck for that I guess. And no, I can't be considered lazy for not doing it myself because the article wasn't my idea. Shame on you, Deathguard. NightRapier 13:30, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey, underagefags and dyslexicfags, I know that you like/dislike the Ultramarines, but before contributing please consider proofreading your useless opinions. You guys are hilarious, really. I mean, Marneus being a pimp was good, but Marneus trying and failing to be a pimp? Classic. Also, please do not feel the need to add much lengthy factual fluff to the history section. Yes, the Ultramarines did do some fighting during the Heresy, but you're screwing up the joke by trying to shoehorn that information in there.

There is an ongoing blitz of updating this article and pointing out how every chapter is better than the Ultramarines. This pleases me. - Jaimas 17:15, 11 February 2011 (EST)

Can we please mention somewhere that the Ultramarines are only as "lol mary sue perfect" because it was the Alpha Legion's plot that kept them from taking massive casualties in the first place? Actually, now that I think about it, since the Alpha Legion made them the "perfect" chapter, and they try to make all the other chapters conform to them, and the Ultramarines barely get anything done other than losing their entire first company, does that mean that the Ultramarines have essentially doomed the Imperium to failure? --173.15.75.89 18:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Noticing that, Rowboat Girlyman also apparently thought himself better than the emprah, since he decided that the Emprah made a mistake in making the legions 10,000 strong and instead make them 1000 instead. Heretic. --Loltau 07:43, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

-Silly Loltau, Rowboat Girlyman IS da Emprah!

Lols have been added. You're welcome.

Here's an idea: what if Varnus killed that Bloodthirster so easily because Khorne was angered by Crull's use of sorcerers, and just sent him a really shitty Bloodthirster instead?

It is just me or does this whole article read like some butthurt Ward hater throwing a hissy fit? Yeah that Codex had a ton of Mary Sue Smurf love but it kinda reads more like propaganda form Ultramar, I mean it does go with their Space Rome theme of them over exacting how awesome their heroes are.

Mostly because it was written by Ward haters throwing a hissy fit. Maybe it started out as satire, but now it has reached insane hate levels. I regret having contributed to it. You can try to tone it down, but be warned: people take hating Ward very seriously, especially among the non-registered contributors. You'll be fighting an uphill battle against people who will stop to petty vandalism to get back at you. Trust me, I've had it happen to me before. And I count myself among the people who wish others would just shut up about it. -- SFH (talk) 16:35, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

• Im thinking of purging this whole page and starting over. --D715 (talk)
  • While it might be prudent to redraft these articles to remove the nonsensical hate, it might also be worthwhile to pre-empt the inevitable creeping return of hate by creating a header/section within those articles where players and readers can vent legitimate frustrations about the portrayals of Ultramarines without it having too much on an effect on the quality of the rest of the text.
    • That's not how it works. We can just revert their edits when they start growing too butthurt. I've gotten the page into a decent state now, though. --Newerfag (talk) 08:29, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Waaaaaaiiiit. Calgar had a rematch with the Schwarmfurer? And WON? I cal hax. This is a bogus miscarriage of fluff if true. Can somebody refer me to the source of this faggotry?--Oogalook (talk) 06:06, 19 July 2015 (UTC) Alright Alright Alright guys, let us hate the Spiritual liege, not the chapter. The concept of Roman in SPEHSS is pretty kewl...

Knock it off with the Ward bit in their specialty.

I don't know why you keep adding this back in Crumbles, because you never provide a reason for it, but you're very late to the party. People stopped making fun of the Ultramarines for being Ward's favourites a long while ago and adding that in now isn't funny, doesn't give us anything new that the rest of the article didn't already provide, and it's no longer topical. Why do you insist on doing it? -- Triacom (talk) 08:11, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

I vigorously second the motion. Josman (talk) 16:30, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

What Sets the Ultramarines Apart?

The Ultramarines fight for ideals above all. They don't have a combat specialization or a particularly strong set of traditions but what they do have is a complete commitment to the ideas that drove Roboute Guilliman. In a sense, these are the same ideas that drove the Emperor.

Notice that these ideas do not belong to the Emperor or Guilliman. That is because both of they are much older than both these individuals. The ideas that I'm referring to are that of order, society and civilization. From the earliest age of mankind, humans have had the drive to band together into groups to achieve that which they could not do individually. First into tribes, then into villages, then into cities, to countries and finally into whole Empires. This overriding drive to civilize, to build up not just structures but entire societies based on meritocracy, order and discipline: that is what constitutes the spirit of Ultramar, and what motivates the Ultramarines.

Why do you think Roboute Guilliman spent so much time on the worlds he conquered? He could have simply handed them off to Imperial authorities and moved onto the next battle and gotten the accolades for the victory. No, he wanted much more than that. He could not stand to see humanity reduced to living in mud huts in feral worlds or killing each other in pointless wars in the more advanced ones after the Long Night. He wanted to raise up those worlds. Make them live up to the same standards of the hyper-civilized Primus words of Ultramar (Konor, Maccrage, Occluda, Saramanth and Iax).

Roboute Guilliman did not want to be a famous warlord. To him, war was simply a means to an end. He wanted to raise up a great Empire where all citizens were treated equally. Where there existed a society based on the core principles of meritocracy and continuous progress to an ever brighter future. Bigger cities, a growing populace, new advances in technology, ever-higher standards of living for the citizens, exploration and colonization of the galaxy. This is what he wanted: civilization.

Make no mistake, this approach is not entirely moral either. Unlike the Salamanders, the Ultramarines would graciously accept horrendous civilian casualties if it meant achieving a higher strategic objective. For example, Uriel Ventris, Captain of the 4th Company of the Ultramarines was willing to subject an entire planet to biological and nuclear weaponry just to protect the borders of Ultramar from the merest hint of Tau activity. In fact, the Ultramarines would have gladly put every single man, woman and child in an entire sector to the sword if they deemed it was for the greater good. They would commit acts of savagery that would be on par with the Night Lords if Roboute Guilliman convinced them that this would help advance their cause.

The don't fight for the common citizenry of the Imperium (like the Salamanders).

They don't fight to repent and bring redemption to the name of the primarch (like the Dark Angels)

They don't fight for honor (like the Space Wolves)

No, they fight to achieve the dream of their Primarch. The ancient human dream of civilization.

I did not write this section, I just removed it from the main page because as I said in the summary, it's reflecting a little too much personal opinion from the writer instead of the general style in the article. Typically bits on the main page shouldn't use "I" or "Me" or refer to the editor at all, since this is a wiki and the main page isn't a discussion board. I've moved it here since the talk page is a discussion board however, and this is definitely something I think is worth discussing.

As for that discussion, I will say that while you've got points on the Ultramarines as far as their pros go, you're missing one of their cons a bit. Roboute Guilliman and his Ultramarines were not above pride, and while the drive to raise the worlds they conquered up to a higher level was admirable, there's no denying that they took a lot of pride in doing so, so much that I could even argue that sometimes the reason they raised them up was so that they could feel proud about their accomplishments. Pride's also plagued the chapter as far as its captains go, just look at Cato for an egregious example of that, and whenever one of their worlds fell under siege they'd rush to its defence, even if the world wasn't exactly of as much importance to the Imperial War Machine as a whole as another world would be (Armageddon and Cadia come to mind as big examples). Unlike some, such as the Blood Anggels, the Ultramarines don't always have the excuse that their homeworld is the world in danger either.

Now I'm not saying that they should abandon their homeworld, or even their other worlds, I'm just stating that when it comes down to the wire their priorities are more for their own people (both themselves and the worlds nearby) and I'd argue that part of the reason why is because of their pride, though given how the Imperium likes using them as posterboys for campaigns and victories it's pretty easy to see why such pride can form.

I'm going to finish this by saying that I don't hate the Ultramarines, and oddly enough the third Gathering Storm book actually made me like Guilliman somehow (which is something considering he was among my least favourite characters before that points), I'm just pointing out a possible reason they're doing what they're doing besides just being the good guys. -- Triacom (talk) 08:34, 26 May 2017 (UTC)