Talk:Aprior Sector

New Technologies

What's good about Tau warp technology? Sure, it doesn't need Navigators, but it's slow and short-ranged, making them the slowest of all the major races when it comes to interstellar travel.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most larger Imperial ships have multiple void shield generators? --Bjorn (talk) 23:43, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

The Apriori ships use standard Warp drives for most interstellar travel. The skimmer drive is basically an improved version of the Tau FTL drives, being more accurate though still limited by relative speed and the amount of distance it can cover. It was mainly developed because even short Warp jumps were pretty risky at the time, though the ship commanders found that they could use it to jump around in-system to instantly re-position themselves in a space battle, provided that they had the energy to do so.

And yeah, most Imperial ships do, but basically the idea is that the emitter can increase the number of Void Shields each generator powers essentially. It requires more power to do so, but you're only using the same number of generators to create a larger number of shields, as opposed to having to have more generators to create the same effect. Remoon101 (talk) 23:49, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Regarding cold fusion: my (admittedly limited) understanding was that cold fusion can refer to any of a number of ways by which a fusion reaction can be catalyzed. This doesn't make it output more energy, it just makes it easier to start (perhaps enabling the construction of smaller and/or cheaper reactors that could be "fired up" more easily). --Bjorn (talk) 00:07, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I believe you're right about that. I'll edit the entry as needed. I figured that the Aprior System has had around 1300 years of the closest thing you can get to peace in 40k, so the tech has made leaps and bounds with applied research being feasible (seeing the Adeptus Mechanicus page on stagnating tech). If that Damnos Crusade story bit has yet to be written, they might need to buff up the attacking force a little to make things more even- the Apriori Armed Forces are going to obliterate most equal sized forces with the tech they have Remoon101 (talk) 01:03, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Hello. Small-fry here, just offering my thoughts. Should the Knights Inductor have graviton weapons of any kind? Or are they too young to have those in their armory? Any chance they might have found the STC or developed one of their own? --Orion Nexus (talk) 03:39, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm considering that right now. They're already developing a whole bunch of grav-manip weapons and even have Gravitron grenades (toned down to only drag enemies down, not pulverize them, for humane purposes). I'm thinking about making a Gravitron beamer weapon that grows in power the longer it is held on a target (over a few Shooting phases in game, for example) that doesn't rely on the Armor save (in game) of the target and simply just crushes them. I'm kind of veering away from Gravitron weapons in general, and we could just say they took a different path in terms of developing gravity weapons (with the exception of the gravity beamer). Besides, they have a weapon that shoots a floating crystal prism, followed by a focused light beam that reflects off the prism and is split into an array of beams that tear apart nearby units in a given area. They'll have plenty of cool toys besides Gravitron weapons. Remoon101 (talk) 14:38, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Order of Reason's Light

So, I'm not that happy with how the the Order of Reason's Light fits in with the Sector. The name's a bit silly, for one (Order of the Guiding Light is much better, but that's taken), and then the whole "reformed by force" bit -- it's in-character for the Knights to achieve peace at sword-point (even if most of them would rather not), and it's mentioned in "An Investigation into the Heresy of the Reasonable Marines," which I'd rather not contradict (I mean, nothing's stopping me, but that would feel wrong), but it's also overdone -- it seems like everybody takes a chunk out of the Sisters just to be taken seriously.

Fortunately, I've got an idea about how to fix this, based on a comment in a long-gone thread from someone sick about Sisters always getting corrupted to show off how evil and powerful a daemon was. They suggested that showing sisters being "caught between faith and orders" would be a better way to get some conflict. So, here's what I'm thinking. The Commandery's spiritual leader (maybe the Canoness, maybe an attached Ecclesiarch) is the primary voice for the Knights' destruction, while many of the seconds-in-command and rank-and-file are not so enamored with the idea of destroying the Emperor's Angels of Death who are dragging the Sector into the fortieth millennium. As the conflict turns hot, the leader dispatches some of her (or his, if it's an Ecclesiarch) most loyal and fanatic units to destroy civilian targets, in an effort to split the attention of the Knights by forcing them on the defense. The excuse: "those who traffic with the heretic are tainted by proximity!" It works, but it also rouses the more reasonable officers and their sisters-in-arms to stop them, defecting to the Knights and helping them beat the Order back to their primary world, where the Knights use their orbital weapons to command space and stop any break-outs while the "radical" Sisters arrest the Puritan ringleaders. The defectors then re-found themselves as the Order of Reason's Light (or whatever the name is, if we pick something different), and everything proceeds from there.

This way, it's less "Space Marines stomp Sisters of Battle, Round 40,000" and more "Sisters of Battle can be multi-dimensional characters, too". Your thoughts? --Not LongPoster Again (talk) 05:35, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I'll have you know that I was planning just such a story, but as for the name change I was thinking of the name the Order of the Steel Rose, it keeps an element of the old name, sacred rose, and acknowledges some differences(Also I have currently an Order of reason's light army that's Kantor blue and Mechanicus Standard Grey as the two primary colors, I'm thinking the new heraldry should be red and steel/leadbelcher). Also for the bit about the investigtion of the Knights Inductor, specifically the bit about not worshiping the Emperor as a God, there's two theories about the big E's godhood, the first is that he was always a god who simply took a mortal form, and the other which I think the Knights would be more inclinded to support, is that the Emperor was an exceptionally powerful human who acceded to Godhood after his internment on the Golden Throne. If you don't believe me, read the 2nd edition codex for the Sisters of Battle.Voidsman (talk) 17:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Secondary spitball idea, Maybe make the Knights inductor not aware of the change that happens, maybe the radical sisters bury evidence of a schism and simply "surrender" to the KI knowing they won't kill the sisters wholesale. I think that might help with the idea of the Knights as all knowing.Voidsman (talk) 17:36, 14 October 2013 (UTC)\

You don't understand. Radical Sisters of Battle CANNOT exist- it's completely irreconcilable with their indoctrination and absolute hatred of anything that is even remotely heretical. And anyone with knowledge of the fluff would realize that they would consider the KI's denial of the Emperor's divinity blasphemous- the Ecclesiarchy says that the Emperor was always a god, and what they believe is what the Sisters believe, and if the Angels of Death disagree, then it's obvious that they're corrupted and must be destroyed before they spread their lies further.(The only reason the other Chapters don't meet with this level of hostility is because they don't actively step on the Ecclesiarchy's toes or engage in other forms of heresy like consorting with xenos, and even then they're rarely if ever trusted by the Sisters of Battle.) A Sister who appears to even slightly doubt the Imperial Creed is quickly imprisoned and tortured to death in order to demonstrate what happens to apostates. There is simply no room for them to be three-dimensional. And in any case, /tg/ couldn't care less about your army's name or colors. --Newerfag (talk) 19:01, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

• I cite their codex and their novels as examples and yet you continue to disagree with me, without citing specific sources of your own, you do realize the /tg/ doesn't set what's canon right? If, as you believe, "there is simply no room for them to be three-dimensional" then fuck off, because those are the stories I'm going to tell. And I'm well aware the /tg/ doesn't give a damn about my army, or for that matter anyone else's army. And why should they? The odds of me playing someone from /tg/ is so astronomically low I'd have better odds playing the lotto. But if you want me to completely change the fluff for my army, then you'd better bring something more than "Everybody knows." And yeah I probably shot myself in the foot by putting my own page up for deletion, but I figured it was worth one last good faith effort to mollify you. Unless you can find something from GW saying that all sisters are puritanical in their beliefs, which would make them unwilling to work with radical inquisitor, something which happened in the Ciaphas Cain novel Duty Calls, don't keep repeating yourself.Voidsman (talk) 23:04, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

The Sisters of Battle are the military arm of the Ecclesiarchy, and unless you can give evidence of your own that Radical Ecclesiarchs exist, it logically follows that the Sororitas are equally Puritanical in their beliefs. Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that the Sisters would turn against the organization that they are an extension of without being eliminated by other, more pious orders? Even the other KI writers are saying that the best solution is to write the Sisters out completely and be done with it. Remoon101 said this on the KI talk page:

"Honestly, the best way I see resolving the Sisters of Battle issue here is to simply not have them in the sector to begin with. I've thought it through a bit and if we have the Sisters here as fanatical as they always are and should be, there's no really dealing with them in a way that leaves the Sector unscathed. Destroy them at the hands of the Knights, and they are definitely traitors. Disarm the Sisters completely and exile them, then have the Ecclesiarchy or someone crack down on the sector as a result. Quarantine them and then that's just against reasonable policy. The best way is to simply have them be absent from the sector. The lack of a more modern Imperial Faith and religious policy in the sector from lack of reinforcement making the Aprior Sector as a whole more open to the Knights when they finally stroll in. At least that's my take on it. I really don't want the Knights Inductor to die, but they are the incarnation of the Reasonable Marines after all and they should be written to more match the originals to begin with."

So unfortunately for you, you'll have to go and refluff your army because even the other KI writers think that what you've got is garbage. plain and simple.--Newerfag (talk) 00:14, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

The Sisters there DIDN'T KNOW that Inquisitor was a Radical- had they realized it they would have torn him apart on the spot. And you conveniently ignored the fact that the Sisters in Duty Calls were WIPED OUT afterwards. Not like that matters, since GW can't be fucked to keep its fluff straight anyway (a whole convent of Sisters falls to Chaos in Redemption Corps, and two Daemonically influenced SoBs show up in Cain's Last Stand, despite the rest of the fluff claiming that exactly ONE Sister has fallen to Chaos). (And never mind the fact that DH explicitly says that Sisters of Battle do not tolerate the existence of Radicals, mostly because it's not GW and therefore not canon by your definition).

• Okay next time, lead with that, if you had approached me with, "hey, the notion of radical sisters contradicts the Dark Heresy sourcebooks" then that would have been a good reason to write them out of that sector, but making blanket statements like "the sisters can't be three-dimensional characters due to indoctrination" sounds an awful lot like "The space marines always win because of their superior training." It needlessly limits what a writer can do. And yeah the GW approach to canon is scattershot at best, but at least they cop to it. That was half the point of the KI and Aprior sector in general, there had to be at least one star system making progress in the milky way in M40, so let's see how far we can run with it.Voidsman (talk) 01:27, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Nobody's asking you to change the fluff of your speshul snowflake army, but they do want you to shut the fuck up about it because they think it's poorly written at best and at worst makes them all fedora-wearing atheist Mary Sues. Tell your stories if you wish, but expect them to be mocked and hated by EVERYONE. And acting like a spoiled brat who can't take criticism only hurts yourself.-128.164.70.88 00:00, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

• Eh you caught me, that specifically was unnecessary bs on my part, but the larger point was supposed to be that there was a whole sector established that I, as well as at least two other writers, had put a lot of time and effort into, and the critics hadn't cited any sources besides general knowledge, which given my lack of spare time means that it's difficult to find exactly what "everyone on /tg/" believes.

• One thing I think we all agree on at this point is the stupid name, which I'm going to leave to the other writers to do with as they please. This debate, for want of a better word, has got me thinking about a better background for my particular army. Maybe when I've got more time to kill, I'll give it a proper write-up and submit it for your sophisticated critique, but for now I'll just check in every so often to keep my account active and leave my user page, and the attendant talk page, blank.Voidsman (talk) 01:27, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Mechanicus organization

The Mechanicus setup here actually seems less reasonable than the standard one in a lot of ways. For instance, if every workshop can "tak[e] on any role", then that means most of their manufacturing machines are lying idle at any one time -- the machines that you use to make ball bearings are different from the ones you use to make paperclips. There's also the human capital -- you have to spend time training your priests in a huge variety of techniques, most of which they will never use. The standard set-up seems far more efficient here.

The trade-off between forge worlds and scattered workshops is less clear, but I still think there's a case to be made for centralization. Putting your manufacturing capability all on one world gives you certain economies of scale. This is why, in the real world, you often get specific locations that specialize in one industry -- e.g., tech companies in Silicon Valley, auto companies in Detroit, movie/television companies in LA. Of course, there are also diseconomies of scale, and putting all your manufacturing eggs in one basket may be risky from a military perspective (though one world is also easier to defend than a bunch of scattered workshops), so this isn't necessarily a bad choice -- but it doesn't seem necessarily more reasonable than the normal organization. --68.197.76.22 19:11, 18 April 2018 (UTC)