Talk:Chapter Master Smashfucker

Now this guy is good but would have his ass handed to him in a challenge with a decked out Necron overlord; 2+/3++ 4+ reanimation 4+ chance to instance kill no saves of any kind allowed via teseract labyrinth, mindshacle scarabs to make him hit miself and hitting at initiative with three ap2 attacks.

This dude is a death star, but not an invulnerable one, as the guy above me pointed out. A nurgle DP with the black mace is actually a serious threat (lol no eternal warrior for you), many of the heavy hitter melee units can wipe the floor with him (skabrand for instance, though a buffed out KoS can do the same), among other things. The biggest threat is ironically from the weakest units, such as conscripts or gaunts. Simply throw so many saves that there's no way you can save and fnp them all away.

Failing a toughness test is still only a 1 in 6 at T5; it's possible, but not super likely. You're right in that Skarbrand will beat him, and Typhus has a 50-50 shot of killing him first. So does Swarmlord. Depending on what kind of apothecary you throw into his unit (read: Harath Shen and his 4+ FNP default), gaunts/conscripts might actually have issues going through T5,3++, 2+/3+ FNP, and IWND.--Boss Ballkrusha (talk) 02:29, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

true I suppose. At my local meta it's how the guard player usually defeats the guy with the deathwing termies. He just has a giant blob of conscripts and unloads on them, usually takes out two or three. Smashfucker obviously isn't a bathrobe wearing Emp, so maybe I'm just underestimating how potent that FNP is. Though I wonder how he would fare against three hammerheads (a tau player at the same store likes those things). Not boasting, I'm legitimately curious since the double strength. Does it negate the FNP with eternal warrior?

Yeah, FNP gets negated by instant death hits, no matter whether the model has EW or not. That's why Lysander and Ghazkull both do well against him. Using railguns vs. a lot of S7-8 shots depends on how much the player has invested into Smashfucker's FNP; if it's the ordinary 5+, it might be better to just drown him in autocannon fire instead of trying to ID him. On the other hand, if he's at 4+ or even 3+ FNP, S10 shots kind of become necessary to get through it. On the whole, there's a reason why most things don't have that kind of FNP; having a second save really ups durability, and having it on a T5 platform with IWND is really broken.--Boss Ballkrusha (talk) 20:59, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh, okay. Makes sense though. Thanks for clarifying the fnp issue, I really wasn't sure how it worked with EW. Honestly, there's a few things in the book and supplement that would make him worse that he can't have: the force thunder hammer that only Libby's can use, and of course the honor guard. Good thing too, this bastard can already kill everything less than a Screamerstar.

ANGELS OF DEATH SMASHFUCKER

Alright, we need to have the ultimate fucking showdown for all eternity. "KATAPHRACTIFUCKER" against his own goddamn primarch; Ferrus Manus. How would this go? Just how many Primarchs can Smashfucker now solo with his 2++/2+++/2++++/2+++++ statline? Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 01:28, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Only a Terminator Captain can take Cataphractii armor, and Terminator Captains can't take bikes or be Chapter Masters, so that portion of the build doesn't work. TomTheHand (talk) 03:43, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

• SMASHFUCKER PRIME is a captain, not a chapter master. He traded one less wound for having better native saves. You also need to read the codex and supplement more carefully.

• Cataphractii captains can take Special Issue Wargear. And Cataphractii armour doesn't count as termi for the purpose of wargear.Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 14:52, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Well I'll be damned. Sorry, I'm a little too used to Dangels, who don't have bikes in their Special Issue Wargear and instead have an explicit "may take a bike" line in the appropriate unit entries. TomTheHand (talk) 14:17, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

IWND 4+

Explain how. Please sig me by typing the tilde(~) key four times

One of the other iron hands artifacts carried by his command squad. Why not read the supplement that SMASHFUCKER PRIME comes from at any point?Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 19:03, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for not being specific. How can Smashfucker have iwnd 4+?

I'm not the above anon, but I read this as well and noticed the question isn't answered. The article doesn't mention an artifact carried by his command squad. Are you under the impression that The Ironstone would grant him IWND 4+? TomTheHand (talk) 22:42, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Revision

I started tweaking the format of the article and wound up doing a pretty significant revision. Since it's drastic, I didn't want to just copy it over the existing one. Instead, could you guys look at User:TomTheHand/Smashfucker and tell me what you think? TomTheHand (talk) 20:46, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and give your version of the article a thumbs up of approval. The God Emperor favors you, great servant. I would wholly support your endeavor to have it merged over the old article. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 23:53, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Alright, sounds good to me! TomTheHand (talk) 04:18, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Smashfucker prime cannot ride a bike.

For some reason, somebody thought that Cataphractii Terminator Armour can be worn while riding a bike, however under the bike it says that models wearing Terminator Armour cannot buy a bike. I don't know how it could possibly be any clearer, you'll need to decide as to whether or not you want re-rollable 2+ invuln or T5. -- Triacom (talk) 22:06, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

• This comes up constantly. Cataphractii Armour is stated specifically to count as Terminator Armour for the purposes of Formations and Transport Capacity. It does NOT say that it counts as terminator armour for the purposes of Wargear. Also, a Cataphractii Captain can take Special Issue Wargear. Cataphractii Terminator Armour is NOT terminator Armour. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 23:34, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Why does it need to say that terminator armour counts as terminator armour for the purposes of wargear? "Cataphractii Terminator Armour" IS Terminator Armour in its name alone. -- Triacom (talk) 23:37, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

This logic is so absurd, this would be like saying Boltguns aren't Bolters. -- Triacom (talk) 23:39, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Also if we're really going to argue that terminator armour isn't terminator armour anymore because the full name is slightly different, then regular terminator armour is actually Indominus Terminator Armour, so you can ride a bike with it going by that logic. -- Triacom (talk) 23:45, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

If Games Workshop doesn't want me to take Cataphractiis on bikes, then they need to issue an FAQ stating that Cataphractii Armour counts as Terminator Armour for ALL PURPOSES, or that Bikes Cannot be taken with Cataphracti Terminator Armour. Until then, SMASHFUCKER PRIME shall live. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 00:19, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Okay, let me ask it more clearly: does it say ANYWHERE you can? Last time I read the codex you couldn't take termie armor and a bike which, curiously enough is what the terminator captain starts with. I think it doesn't take much mental gimnastics to see you cannot take it because you're not allowed from the get-go. Simple as that.

It doesn't say anywhere that you can't, and that's the point. Nowhere in either book does it say that a Terminator Captain in Cataphractii Armour can't take a bike, only that someone in Terminator Armour can't take a bike. On a similar note, Cataphractii Captains can also take Jump Packs, although have fun modeling a Cataphractii in a jump pack big enough to lift one up. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 19:47, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Why would they need to add it in a FAQ when it says it in the book? Cataphractii TERMINATOR ARMOUR is Terminator Armour (shocking, I know), and the bike doesn't let you use it alongside it. I get what you're trying to do, and I'm not against rules lawyering when you're trying to create something intentionally broken (just look at the talk page at the 30k space marine tactics page for evidence of that) however in this case, even RAW, it isn't allowed. -- Triacom (talk) 04:46, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

IWND is calculated wrong.

I'm not sure who's doing the mathhammer, however IWND is not a save, and so it cannot divide Wounds, it outright subtracts them. So regular IWND will subtract 0.333 Wounds every time it comes into effect, and 4+ IWND will subtract 0.5. -- Triacom (talk) 22:09, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

vs Magnus

Actually, Magnus have 3+ armour untill he drops to 3 wounds. ALthiugh it does not matter. At turn one he steals Smashfucker's fist/hammer instead of the claw - now Smashy is S4, and Magnus is T8, and thus cannot be wounded by anything less than S5. Which means he's forced to fight with krak grenades, that are only 1 attack and still wound on 6+, NOT piercing that 3+ armour. And even this is sub-optional, since he have shit like Crematorium to get rid os Smachy's retinue, and Living Bomb, which when boosted can instakill Smashy with 1/3 chance.

• Okay, first of all, this is supposed to be a Punch-out. None of the other primarchs in the entire game got their psychic powers during primarch duels, since it was supposed to be a "Man to Man Duel", consider Magnus lucky that he even gets to use his psychic powers at all. I only choose the powers that I did because they support Magnus's efforts at punching out Smashfucker. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 15:21, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

• He also only gets his psychic powers in the first place BECAUSE he's Magnus the Red. His entire stick is that he's the psyker primarch. But these duels are still about punch-outs, not "I win because broken as fuck psychic powers in a broken as fuck codex.", hence why he chooses these powers and not shit like Crematorium, Living Bomb, and Paralyze, because they're just I WIN buttons.Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 15:21, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Fight with horus

Alternative Idea: Why not use the World Breaker instead to get rid of his FNP? Won't be enough mind( only does 0.0924 wounds a turn before IWND bringing it down to zero) At least it would do more damage as the talon will never come into effect

Horus can't swing his S10 Hammer fast enough to out-do Smashfucker's IWND. He uses the Talon of Horus to weaken Smashfucker, because he practically auto-wins the moment Smashfucker suffers the first statline decrease. However, he can't swing enough times to breach a Rerollable 2++ before Prime kills him. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 03:02, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Update with Smashfucker vs Daemon Primarchs?

The stats for Magnus on this page are from a fan codex, aren't they? Is anyone going to update this using Magnus's actual stats from the recently-released official codex from War Zone Fenris? I doubt that I'm the only one interested in seeing how he stacks up against a Daemon Primarch. Also, there was an Apocalypse formation from Forge World that gave stats for Angron, IIRC; presumably, his mandatory bodyguard of 3 Blood Thirsters would sit out the fight the same way Smashfucker's command squad and librarian support crew do. 182.239.171.146 14:26, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

• Well, Prime kills Daemon-Manus with no problems, as he does not have any self-buffs, IF Magnus chooses to fight fair. There is not reason for him to fight fair, though. He can just fly around, raining D-beams on the ground and summoning burning chariots to roast Prime's retinue. Just like with the fandex it only works if Magny chooses to be sporty, except he actually get wrecked rather than slowly grinding his way to victory through loaded dices. That being said DMagnus is not self-sufficient and relies on Horrors to generate him his warp charges - Prime can attempt to kill his batteries and de-fang Magnus, but he's not that great at killing hordes of matryoshka daemons.