Talk:Codex: Transformers

Thanks, Criteria, Etc.

I would to thank everyone who has showed interest in this and have made their own suggestions for rules and units. Seriously, this shit can't work without playtesting and suggestions, and some of these ideas are really creative and at least tie into the 40K universe

The main issues we have to deal with are rules, balance, and fluff. This army by definition is going to be packed with special rules. We need to find some way to do this without making a mess and just adding in walls of text and exceptions to said rules. Balance and fluff are kinda interlinked here. A separation of Autobot/Decepticon is damn near required, and finding a way for these two to be balanced and viable against other armies (or each other) can go many ways. Each side needs a sort of "ace in the hole" character or unit(s) that distinguishes them.

The basic criteria for the army I'm looking for is somewhere along these lines:

• the army will probably be a sort of cross between Grey Knights, Tyranids, and the Ork Dred Mob: they have a focus on heavy infantry, monstrous creatures, and strong firepower. We may have the lowest model count in the game, but the sheer badassery of each model can crush Space Marines underfoot. Some of the smaller transformers are the size of small cars, for God's sake.
• Psykers among transformers will most likely be nonexistent, but if you have suggestions that fit into the fluff well please say so.
  • speaking of fluff; if you have ideas for any new characters, entries in the intro or timeline, or interactions with other characters (Optimus fighting Emps?) please say so. And this will follow the G1 continuity for the most part.
• lots of independent characters, at least in the HQ or Elite slots. The show was packed with special characters and warriors, so an abundance of high toughness characters with Eternal Warrior is highly recommended. Each character can have a rule or special weapon unique to them, making them an army even of themselves.

Again, I thank you for your input! Keep that going!

Format

• I changed the format because having special rules written together with the warlord traits in cursive at the start of the unit entry did not make much sense. The current look resembles the most recent entries in the craftworld eldar codex with a few exception.

If you do decide to keep the changes one other change that might be worth making is seperating special rules for each form instead of saying (x only ) or (y only) like I have done. Angry Pirate (talk) 12:13, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Special Rules:

Grimlock

• a
• b
• c

Tyrannosaurus

• a
• b
• d

Discussion of Existing Units

Troops

Droids

• I removed their champion, transformers are going to have a lot of unique characters, having 1/3 of the regular soldiers also be champions is excessive. Beyond that it is a lot simpler to only have one type of model per unit because of the whole transformation business. Angry Pirate (talk) 12:13, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Ideas, Suggestions and Proposals

TOO WEAK a weapon: Energon Blaster

The standard troop Drones have 11 for Front Armour, yet their Energon Blasters are only S5 AP5 Assault 3? That's like a dinky Ripper Gun those Ogryns carry around, just with AP5 instead of AP-. Judging by the size of these Transformers, the common soldier's basic gun should be something like a Lascannon, or a mini-lascannon. Maybe like those WW2 US Army style where standard M1 Garand rifles were single shot (8 round clip mag) while some teams carried SMGs that fired pistol rounds rapidly but were less accurate suited for getting up close. In the G1 show most of the time the Energon blasters were firing slow, I remember in an ad bumper where Jazz fires it rapidly. If the guns used by baseline transformers were so ineffective at killing each other, then they wouldn't be carrying them around as common weapons in the first place.

• Also, keep in mind, even if they are quite lethal, these standard TROOPS still get 3 Hull points each. Coupled with a lethal average melee weapon, I think it's a fair deal balanced between a standard Transformer drone opting to go vehicle mode and drive into the enemy gun lines and hit them with his sword, or just standing and shooting.
• I propose Energon Rifles be S9 AP3 Heavy 1 24"
• I propose Energon Blasters be S7 AP4 Pistol 2 12". Surely their blasters should at least be on par with autocannons that Chaos Space Marine like to lug around? What's considered to be Heavy Weapons to a space marine is a standard issue gun to these metal giants.
• Maybe they should just be Salvo 1/2 together, and just have variable Strength and AP settings. I think the entire point of having Transformers is being versatile.
  • maybe even Salvo 1/3 with variable Strength and AP settings?

Also, probably nothing like a standard energon blaster, I suppose G1 Megatron's iconic gun would be far superior to the standard gun, right? Since it killed Optimus Prime in the Movie in just 2 hits (fuck you, Hot Rod!). Also, I think I read somewhere G1 Megatron's gun, when charged for a long time, can shatter a planet. But it takes way too long and he is vulnerable during all that charging and especially weakened after discharging it. --EcceHomo (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

'Build a Transformer' option? (Or randomized troops?)

Unlike other armies, Transformers never seemed to have much of a system-wide standard loadout for everyone, except for a few recolors of the same model. Being cartoon characters that wanted to sell toys, they are more celebrated for individuality and there is no real "standard soldier model" afaik. They always felt more like civilians levied into a civil war who bring into battle whatever they've been using all along.

• A Particle beam attached to the humerus akin to Starscream's is an interesting weapon, I think in game terms you can use it as a digital weapon.
• Remember that episode when Megatron dueled Optimus but Megs secretly cheated and installed weapons and gear internally, given to him by other Decepticons?

And that reminds me... --EcceHomo (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

COMBINERS

What if Transformers Drones themselves are the wargear, as in, they are components that combine to form an unnamed Combiner? It's simpler I think, than putting all the unique, named Combiner characters into the Special Characters section. Here's an idea: instead of dividing Transformers into specific Force Organisation niches, why not bulk up the options for Drones with individual upgrades called Special Systems, and when combining, for every robot with a Special System installed the Combiner gets a stat bonus/ability? The reason for bulking up the options available for Drones is so that various models with different gear/roles can still be found in the same unit, making it convenient to Combine. Instead of having to make different units like Elites and Fast Attack have to come together in one spot to form a specific type of Combiner. Or heaven forbid, all-too-complex unique Combiner rules for Fast Attack units, Heavy Support units, etc.

• Basic rules: Combiner can no longer transform. For every 1 robot included, Gain +2 HP and +1 WS (because size).
  • Rapid Locomotor Special System: For every model in the unit with this, the Combiner gets +3" to Movement/Assault, up to 15" (after all, isn't the entire purpose of combining used for assault?)
  • Heavy Armor Special System: For every model in the unit with this, the Combiner gets +1 Front Armour up to 14. (Useful for melee cuz walkers in combat. +1 all around seems OP and doesn't make sense in fluff when you consider how a smaller drone is providing extra armour for the entirety of the combiner?)
  • Energon Supercharger System: For every model in the unit with this, the Combiner gets +1 S to 1 ranged/melee weapon.
    • Or maybe one can opt to get -2HP and -1 WS in exchange for +2 S to 1 ranged/melee weapon? Because instead of becoming the body, the drone was a component for a weapon. ( Like the STAR SABER )
• Also, no where else would we be able to try out Combining. I mean, Transforming is pretty unique to Transformers too, what other chance would we get to play around with Combining in a wargame?
  • Model-wise, just go with whatever. They don't have to really look the sum of their parts. Transformers always was pretty liberal with parts growing impossibly larger/smaller all the time. Remember G1 Megatron going from giant to handheld pistol size? No one batted an eye at that.

--EcceHomo (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Charging/Ramming then Transforming

What is the point of transforming if you can't use it to be versatile? I think limiting Transformations to occur once every turn is kind of clunky. Maybe it would be too OP to let everyone freely transform several times within the turn, will have to see it played. But maybe units could get this ability as an upgrade, like Rapid Transformation Modules or something. --EcceHomo (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

OPTIMUS PRIME'S TRAILER / MEGATRON's PISTOL MODE

OPTIMUS (TRAILER): What do we do with this elusively disappearing thing MEGATRON: Unlike Galvatron, I guess he needs someone like Starscream to wield his pistol mode. Maybe he even starts the game hidden as some Decepticon's wargear and BAM! he appears as fully sized Megatron whenever he chooses. --EcceHomo (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

TRIPLE CHANGERS

The iconic triple changer, Blitzwing, had Tank/Jet/Robot modes. Tactically, I think his modes correlate to Firepower/Mobility/Versatility. Hmmm... --EcceHomo (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Invulnerable Save

• Maybe it would be a good idea to give if not all Transformers then at least a number of them invulnerable saves. Right now Transformers are going to cling to cover really hard. Of course it´s pretty realistic to take cover, on the other hand it might be a kind of a stale playstyle.

• That crossed my mind recently. That sounds like the best idea right now; give them an army-wide rule that gives them an invulnerable save much like Shield of Faith for the Sisters of Battle. Along with that, if they suffer an Explodes! result on the Vehicle Damage table, they simply count as being Wrecked and do not explode. --Hellsing612 (talk) 14:29, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

KISS

• I tried to clean up this page a bit, hope I didn´t ruffle any feathers/rustle any cogwheels in the process (No? Not fun? Ok.).

KISS stands for Keep It Simple Stupid, you guys REALLY have to keep this dex VERY simple. You have to remember what this is, it´s a fun codex, the intention is that people who have the old toys can "play" with them, others can proxy. But you have to be realistic, nobody very few people are going to make an actual army for this codex. How many games are people going to play with this codex on average? Probably 1 game, with some people playing 5 and a few crazies reaching more than 10 games. What this means is the codex should be simple and easy to pick up. Angry Pirate (talk) 16:20, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

• While I agree with that, playing a bitt of Devil's advocate here: Codex: Covenant has a lot of units and rules, but there are not models for it outside of some scarce action figures and kitbashes. People don't have to spend time buying new toys for it (if you buy Transformers JUST for this, the fuck is your life), you can just read the rules on here and play it once or twice. If you love it: wonderful! My mission has been accomplished. I'd say we can get away with a little complexity due to the simplicity of getting models for the army. --Hellsing612

• KISS is mostly a question of not making things overly complicated. Replacing Necrons´ WBB (models have a chance of resurrecting) with Reanimation Protocols (basically FNP) is not KISS. While the end result is the same (Necrons are durable), the way you get there and the feeling is different. With WBB your opponent kills models, which feels good, but then they get back up and he despairs, he hasn´t accomplished as much as he thought he has, WBB also gives the sense of inevitability and Necromancy. Reanimation Protocols simply make Necrons ungodly tough. Sorry for talking about Necrons in a Transformers page... But the point is that you want to simplify things as much as possible, without breaking the feel of the army.

Another thing is you should defintitely think hard about the layout of your codex before you truly start adding units, I´ve learned the hard way (thrice) that you should make it right the first time. If you go ahead and make 20 or 30 units it´s going to be a pain to change all of them. Check out some of the different codices and decide what you want, my current favourite way of setting up units can be found in Codex - Space Wolves Angry Furry Edition. Good luck with the codex. Angry Pirate (talk) 19:28, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions! Keep input flowing.

Setting: Transformers?

• I was thinking, with the Talk page being flooded with fluff suggestions, I propose we make a Setting: Transformers page similar to the Setting: Covenant one. This means that Codex: Trasnformers will be specific for crunch, and Setting: Transformers will be there for all your fluff needs and proposals.

How does that sound?

• Sounds an excellent suggestion to me. I'm all for it. 116.250.104.193 23:55, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

What should Dragonkingofthestars do about his ideas?

• I have some ideas for this page, new vehicle damage table, few unit ideas, am I free to just add them or do first need to propose them here? User:Dragonkingofthestars 10:01, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

• Personally, I'd recommend putting the ideas up on here first for observation first. Freely editing the page could be kind of a dick move, as it might lead to edit-warring. Best to put them here, see what folks think, then they'll get moved into the article proper.116.250.104.193 21:47, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

• Oki dokey! (Cracks ALL the knuckles)

• I would also sincerely advise looking through a good resource for your fluff, troops, weapons, and wargear: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Generation_1_weapons There. http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Category:Fall_of_Cybertron_weapons And while this isn't G1, it does harken back to it, and perhaps more importantly it gives details on (most of) the weapons which might make them easier to stat. --Voivode1 (talk) 00:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Ideas for units and rules

We need some Lords of War or TitanEQs. How about Metroplex and Trypticon? User:Vroshtattersoul

Dragonkingofthestars proposed units and rules

Changes to preexisting rules in bold. PS: all rules written on assumption you could use a properly sized actual transformer toy as a model.

Special Rules, Warlord Traits, Etc.

• Biomechanical Organism
  • Transforming is a fundamental part of cybertronian biology. Even in their earliest days, cybertronians could transform from a bipedal humanoid form to an alternate vehicle mode. The vehicles come in all shapes in sizes, but they all give a distinct advantage in combat. Any model or unit with this special rule can choose to transform from a Primary or Alternative form at the beginning of the Movement Phase. You must declare what unit or model is transforming one at a time. Each unit or model with this special rule has an alternate stateline in their profile. You may choose during deployment or if they're in Reserves what form a unit or model starts in. If you choose to transform, it must follow these guidelines:
    • They must stay in that transformed mode until the beginning of the next friendly Movement Phase.
    • If a unit with this special rule chooses to transform, the whole unit must do so. In addition, if they choose to transform into a vehicular mode, then they count as a vehicle squadron for that turn.
    • A unit cannot preform a Look Out, Sir roll while in an Alternative move unless specifically stated otherwise.
    • If the model is locked into combat as a vehicle, then it cannot attack back unless stated. It must instead wait until the next fight sub phase in order to transform to its Primary form to attack back. Otherwise, it can ram and/or tank-shock as normal.
    • A character cannot issue or accept challenges in Assault while they're in a Alternative vehicle mode unless otherwise stated.
    • If a vehicle squadron takes 25% casualties in the Shooting Phase or looses an Assault Phase, they must test Leadership using the leadership value later in their Primary profile. If they fail their test, they must move their full speed back.
    • If a Vehicle suffers a penetrating hit roll on the Biomechanical Organism damage table rather then the standard rule book table vehicle damage chart. AP 2 adding +1 to the roll and AP1 adding +2 to the roll
    • If in Primary form a Model that suffers a wound from a weapon with AP lower then there armor save and the weapon has more then seven strength roll on the Biomechanical Organism damage table. AP 2 adding +1 to the roll and AP1 adding +2 to the roll
    • Despite there heavy armor and high toughness thanks to there mechanical nature, Biomechanical Organism are thanks to there organic components still vulnerable to massed small arms. Any roll to wound roll of a six against a Biomechanical Organism automatically wounds. NOTE: this is to allow heavy, HEAVY infantry while also not being over powered against other factions anti infantry weapons. Further this gives an advantage to Vehicle form. Tankyer (heh), but not can't charge, and fewer weapons meaning it's a real trade off.
    • If a transformer Vehicle form has the flyer special rule they have the following rules.
      • If they start the game in Primary mode they can start on the table top.
      • A Flyer can't transform on the turn it enters the game from reserve.
      • A Transformer that transformers from flyer to Primary mode can't charge the turn it transforms.
      • A Transformer that transforms from Primary to Vehicle mode can be shot at by weapons with the intercept rule as if it had just entered from reserve.
    • All for every wound lost remove one hull point from a Transformer Vehicle form and for each hull point lost remove one wound from a transformer's primary mode.
    • In addition to the above, all models with this rule have the Hammer of Wrath special rule in both Vehicle and standard forms and gain can Infiltrator into ruins at the start of the game. models that do this must start the game in Vehicle mode.

• Mechanical biology
  • Most transformers have evolved with a form that the majority of sentient races of the galaxy would understand as a 'vehicle', a machine. But not all transformers are the same. There exist a a second type of transformer different from the regular kind, the Primals transform not into machines but into Creatures of steel and pseudo flesh, monstrous creatures. Any model or unit with this special rule can choose to transform from a Primary or Alternative form at the beginning of the Movement Phase. You must declare what unit or model is transforming one at a time. Each unit or model with this special rule has an alternate stateline in their profile. You may choose during deployment or if they're in Reserves what form a unit or model starts in. If you choose to transform, it must follow these guidelines:
    • They must stay in that transformed mode until the beginning of the next friendly Movement Phase.
    • If a unit with this special rule chooses to transform, the whole unit must do so.
    • A unit cannot preform a Look Out, Sir roll while in an Alternative move unless specifically stated otherwise.
    • A character cannot issue or accept challenges in Assault while they're in a Alternative vehicle mode unless otherwise stated.
    • If in either Primary form or Alternative form a Model that suffers a wound from a weapon with AP lower then there armor save and the weapon has more then seven strength roll on the Biomechanical Organism damage table. AP 2 adding +1 to the roll and AP1 adding +2 to the roll
    • Despite there heavy armor and high toughness due to there mechanical nature, there organic components still vulnerable to massed small arms. Any roll to wound roll of a six against a Mechanical biology Organism in primary mode automatically wounds.
    • If a transformer Vehicle form has the flying monstrous creature special rule they have the following rules.
      • If they start the game in Primary mode they can start on the table top.
      • A Flyer can't transform on the turn it enters the game from reserve.
      • A Transformer that transformers from flyer monstrous creature to Primary mode can't charge the turn it transforms.
      • A Transformer that transforms from Primary to Flying mode can be shot at by weapons with the intercept rule as if it had just entered from reserve.
      • A transformer when transforming into monstrous creature mode must decided weather to enter swooping or glideing mode when transforming.
    • All for every wound lost from one mode are lost in the other as well.
    • In addition to the above, all models with this rule have the Hammer of Wrath special rule in both Monstrous creature and standard forms and gain can Infiltrator into forests at the start of the game. models that do this must start the game in monstrous creature mode.

Biomechanical Organism damage table

Roll	Result
1-3	Armor Buckled: the Mechanical armor of the transformer takes a big hit, suffering damage but saving the transformer's life for now. Reduce armor save by one and reduce armor of vehicle form by one for a random facing.
4	Stunning damage: The attack penetrates the armor, the pain stunning the transformer. The transformer can only fire snap shots for its next turn.
5	Servo damaged: The round cripples an internal servo, reducing the transformer's ability to move. Roll a D6, 1-3 the transformer in Primary mode is treated as moving in difficult terrain, 4-6 Vehicle mode.
6	Crippling damage: The attack deals massive internal damage to the transformer. The transformer suffers D3 additional wounds and can only fire snap shots for its next turn. Vehicles instantly transform into Primary mode.
7	Spark damage: The attack, as if guided by the fell hand of Unicron itself, strikes the transformer in the spark. Treat as an Explodes result on the vehicle damage table even if the Transformer is in Primary mode.

Alignment/Warlord Traits

Re done: this is now part of the warlord traits table.

• When Rolling for warlord traits, choose either the Autobot or Decepticon warlord table. The table you select is the alignment of your army and effect what units you can take and what rules various units have

I was thinking: what do you people think about possibly having a singular warlord trait chart for both Autobot and Decepticon, but each one has an alternative one unique to them?

	Transformers: Autobots	Transformers: Decepticons
1	Armored Flesh: The Warlord receives a 4+ invulnerable save. If your Warlord already has an invulnerable save, then they receive +1 to that save.	Crafted by Unicron: Warlord's melee weapon receives one of the following special rules on a d3 roll. However, your Warlord must issue and accept challenges. 1. Master-Crafted 2. Shred 3. Concussive
2	Indomitable Will: The Warlord and any units within "18 of the Warlord receive the Stubborn special rule.	Ambitious: the warlord is eager to climb the ranks of command and earn greater glory in the name of Megatron! Warlord receives the Rage and Zealot special rules.
3	Master of Logic: Warlord and d3+1 units gain the Outflank and Acute Senses special rules	Schemer: The warlord has climbed the ranks with careful political maneuvering and proficient backstabbing. When attacking in the rear arc of a enemy vehicle or character the warlord gains +3 Ballistic and weapon skills
4	Arch Defender!: The warlord swore an other to him self and his comrades that will not be moved from this spot. The warlord Gains the "it will not die", and "Eternal warrior" special rule.	Master of Logic: Warlord and d3+1 units gain the Outflank and Acute Senses special rules
5	Gunnery officer: the warlord has spent many, many long hours in the gunnery ranges and is his weapons are well maintained and highly efficient. The warlord shooting attacks count as twin linked.	Indomitable Will: The Warlord and any units within "18 of the Warlord receive the Stubborn special rule.
6	Roll out!: Warlord is from a scout unit and he shares his experience to the soldiers under his command. The warlord and his unit may choose to transform again at the end of the Psychic Phase with no penalty.	Armored Flesh: The Warlord receives a 4+ invulnerable save. If your Warlord already has an invulnerable save, then they receive +1 to that save.

Armory

Weapon Table	Range	S	AP	Type
Energon Blaster	24"	5	5	Assault 2
Energon missiles	48"	8	3	Assault 1
Energon frag missiles	48"	6	5	Assault 1 blast
Chain slug thrower	30"	4	5	Assault 3
Dragon flamer	--	4	3	template
Energon Flail	—	?	?	Melee ?
Energon Axe	—	?	?	Melee ?
Energon Sword	—	?	?	Melee ?
Fusion Cannon	30"	?	?	Assault 2 (if there's something heavier, that might work better)
Ion Blaster	30"	?	?	Assault 2
Null Ray	50"	?	?	Assault 2 (is effectively a beam sniper rifle)

Thought I'd add some suggestions for better-known weapons. Sorry, I'm not all that familiar with how everything works crunch-wise.--Voivode1 (talk) 00:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Armor

Con-script armor plating: The lightest combat armor Transformers use. to save weight and cost the armor is very thin in place granting little protection against heavy bolter fire. grants a +4 armor save.

Soldier plating: Heavier armor Soldier plating is used for front line combat troops and is able to sustain multiple heavy impacts. 3+ armor save.

Tank Plating: The heaviest armor, Tank plating is equipped by transformers who alt form is explicitly a combat vehicle and whose armor transfers to there primary form. 2+ armor save.

Officer plating: This high grade armor incorporated force fields that run parallel to the armor plating allowing increased protection at little weight increase. 3+ invul save.

Allies Matrix

	Transformers: Autobots	Transformers: Decepticons
Space Marines	Allies of Convenience	Desperate Allies
Astra Militarum	Allies of Convenience	Desperate Allies
Grey Knights	Desperate Allies	Desperate Allies
Skittari/Adeptus Mechanicus	Come the Apocalypse	Come the Apocalypse
Chaos Daemons	Come the Apocalypse	Allies of Convenience
Chaos Space Marines	Desperate Allies	Allies of Convenience
Dark Eldar	Desperate Allies	Battle Brothers
Eldar	Allies of Convenience	Desperate Allies
Harlequins	Allies of Convenience	Allies of Convenience
Necrons	Desperate Allies	Allies of Convenience
Orks	Desperate Allies	Desperate Allies
Tau Empire	Battle Brothers	Desperate Allies
Tyranids	Come the Apocalypse	Come the Apocalypse

Units

Droid was completely renamed.

HQ

All Transformer HQ choices are promoted from models with the independent character special rule. the following is a list of promotions a transformer can take. note: following should be based off officer seen in canon

Medical officer

While a organic race would think of them more as 'mechanics' then 'medics' to the transformers such distinctions are meaningless.

• 200pts
• Transformer gains the following war gear: officer plateing, medical kit,
  • Medical kit: grants transformers in the same unit the 'feel no pain rule' if the Medical officer forgoes his shooting phase to treat the wounded.

Champion

Whether they be one of the great shots of transformer kind, or if they are the finest with a blade among their faction, the champions take the fight to foe in the name of their commander and ideals. 100pts

• Transformer gains +1ws/bs, Officer plating.

Communication officers

Among a race as thinly spread, and as well hidden as the transformers, keeping in constant contact is a important near impossible task so each faction keeps dedicated communication officers to keep in contact with Primal forces and the occasional rare transformer world.

• 200pts.
• Transformer gains Officer plating.
• Transformer gains Communication rule
  • Communication grants one transformer the outflanking special rule and can pick the table edge it can out flank from.

Proposed special characters

most are self evident though but we best get a complete list of them down. I'm most ignorant of transformer backstory however, (i thought this was a real neat idea) so correct choices I make wrong.

Optimius prime

Should be a lord of war.

Megatron

should be a lord of war

Galvatron

part of a supplement that allows you to make a Unicron cult army. Make him a Lord of war and Cyclonus and the Scourge the HQs?

Blackarachnia

a starting, bare bones upgrade

Elites

Primal Pack

While most transformers know that the Civil war was between two sides, that is not entirely true. There existed a third side, the non-aligned. the most powerful of the non-aligned groups are the Primals. Unlike other transformers the Primals alt form is not a vehicle, but an animal. When the Transformer homeworld first was devoid of energy some transformers settled on distant worlds and attempted to the environment taking on the forms of animals. Some of the wild worlds they settled where the locations that the future Exodites Eldar would flee to escape the fall of there empire. The Primals and the Exodites would often form close bonds, each a rugged people escaping a doomed world and they often worked together on there worlds for the common good. More then once Imperial forces have attacked Exodite worlds only to be confronted by the the strange wraith lord they had ever seen, in truth it was a primal transformer. As the transformer civil war began to reignite following the return of Primus the Primals have stubbornly refused to pick a side in the conflict. While individual groups such as the Maximals and Predacons have declared for one side or another, as a whole the vast majority stay neutral in the war. Either acting as mercenary for Autobots, Decepticons or anybody who can pay or just staying out of the war completely and choosing to avoid conflict when ever possible. Sometimes however, when the Tyranid hive fleets hang low in the sky's, or as imperial guard raise battle lines on a verdant Exodite world, in the distance one can hear a low, angry rumble as an army of Primal Transformers march to war as one. ???Points

Primary	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Primal	5	3	5	5	4	3	4	8	3+
Primal Chief(Character)	5	3	5	5	4	3	5	8	3+
Primal alternate form	5	3	6	7	4	3	2	9	3+
Primal Chief alternate form	5	3	6	7	4	3	2	10	3+

• Unit Composition: 2 Primals
• Unit Type: (Primary) Infantry, Very Bulky/ (Alternative) monstrous creature
• Wargear: Primary: Energon Blasters, two power weapon (Bonus attack included in profile), Soldier plating.

Altform: Dragon flamer.

• May upgrade all primals' alt form to a flying monstrous creature+60pecial rules: Mechanical biology.

Primal Warlord

The great leaders and commanders of the Primal forces are known by many names, chiefs, shamans, but in battle they often all go by the same title: Warlord. to be the war lord of a society of only slightly less bestial then that of the Orks is often a challenge and in some packs warlords must constantly watch there back for fear of a challenge arising that they can not meet.

???Points

Primary	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Primal Warlord	5	3	5	5	4	3	5	8	3+
Primal Warlord alternate form	5	3	6	7	4	3	2	10	3+

• Unit Composition: 1 Primal Warlord
• Unit Type: (Primary) Infantry, Very Bulky/ (Alternative) monstrous creature
• Wargear: Primary two power weapon (Bonus attack included in profile), Solider plating.
• May upgrade alt form to a flying monstrous creature+30

Altform: Dragon flamer.

• Special rules: Mechanical biology.

Troops

Con-script

In the civil war a vast majority of the soldiers for either side lacked combat vehicle forms taking the form of civilian vehicles such as cars or small trucks. Despite lacking armor they are, comparatively, numerous. As can be taken by the name 'Con-Script' they are, forced enlistment is only used by the Decepticons. While the Autobots use Milita forces as well they train there force to be the equal of there front line soldiers negating the advantages such forces have main line Troops. 125 Points

Primary	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Con-script	3	3	5	5	3	3	3	7	4+
Con-script Alternative	BS	F	S	B	HP
Con-script Car	3	10	10	10	3

• Unit Composition: 3 Con-script,
  • May add up to 3 more Con-script for 30 pts/model
• Unit Type: (Primary) Infantry, Very Bulky/ (Alternative) Vehicle Squadron, Open-topped
• Wargear: Energon Blasters, Con-script armor plating, Solider plateing (Con-script Commander)
  • For every three models in the unit one model may replace the energon blaster with one of the following.
    • Energon Missile luncher+20
    • Belt fed slug thrower+free
• Special rules:
  • Decepticons only: only can be taken in forces where the warlord rolls for a warlord trait on the Decepticons warlord table.
  • Biomechanical organism

Soldiers

????Points

Primary	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Soldiers	4	4	5	5	3	3	3	8	3+
Soldiers Alternative	BS	F	S	B	HP
Soldiers reinforced vehicle	4	12	12	11	3

• Unit Composition: 3 Soldiers,
• Unit Type: (Primary) Infantry, Very Bulky/ (Alternative) Vehicle Squadron, tank
• Wargear: Energon Blasters, Solider plating
  • one model may replace the Energon blaster with one of the following.
    • Energon Missile luncher+20
    • Belt fed slug thrower+free
  • Any model may take a power weapon along side there energon blaster+10.
• Special rules:
  • Biomechanical organism

Officers

The transformers are a large species, the largest of there kind are comparable to imperial titans and even the smallest of the primary transformer race was easy the size of a Knight titan. This has meant that large army's as the organic races have understood them where physically impossible meaning small forces that by necessity have had to be highly trained, and it also means that in the great Transformer civil war, there have been ample chances for individual soldiers to make enough of a difference to become heroes. such intense acts of heroism have become requirements to rise through the ranks and to be a sergeant means they inspires awe in the transformers around them as they lead from the front. ????Points

Primary	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Officers	5	5	5	5	3	3	3	10	3+
Officers Alternative	BS	F	S	B	HP
Officers reinforced vehicle	5	13	12	11	3

• Unit Composition: 1 Officers,
• Unit Type: (Primary) Infantry, Very Bulky/ (Alternative) Vehicle tank
• Wargear: Energon Blaster, power weapon, solider plating,
• Special rules:
  • Biomechanical organism.
  • Independent Character.

Auxiliary

Where or not the transformers waged war on holy terra, indeed younger transformers have problems believing that there civil war went to the one planet in the billions in the galaxy that would be home to the now dominate humane race, the commanders of the Autobots tend to think so and cite this ancient link between there races as the rational behind the Auxiliary. Force of mostly human, but Tau and even in the case of the Primals Eldar, forces that fight along side the Autobts and help compensate for there transformers lack of numbers. Armed with upgraded and improved weapon systems the Auxiliary are powerful force for holding the line against Decepticon attacks since they can use terrain in ways the larger autobots just can not.

????Points

Primary	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Auxiliary	3	3	3	3	1	3	1	8	5+
Heavy weapon team	3	3	3	3	2	3	2	8	5+
Auxiliary Commander (Character)	3	3	3	3	1	3	2	9	5+

• Unit Composition: 9 Auxiliary , 1 Auxiliary commander
• Unit Type: Infantry,
• Wargear: E-lasgun (energon enhanced lasgun with Ap4), flak armor, Enhanced-camo cloaks
  • one model may replace the E-Las gun with one of the following (see imperial guard codex)
    • Flamer-Grenade launcher-free
  • Two models may be replaced with a heavy weapon team armed with one of the following.
    • Energon Missile luncher+free
    • Belt fed slug thrower+free
    • Mortar+free
    • Lascannon+25
  • The Auxiliary Commander may take a power weapon+10
• Special rules:
  • Enhanced camo-clocks: confires the 'shrouded' special rule.
  • Autobot only: only can be taken in forces where the warlord rolls for a warlord trait on the Autobot warlord table.

Fast Attack

Seekers

Seekers, so called because their purpose is to find and seek out the enemy so they can be destroyed by the main transformer army, are the transformers' air force. Seekers are the most obvious example of transformers tinkering with there own biology to produce more consistent results. Seekers all have the same combat form, a fighter jet of identical make and model. Occasionally for stealth operations they are customized with a form to look like a fighter of the target race, but in combat seekers all use the same form. While outsiders assume this means they are all identical in mind as they look in body, this is far from tru as any Autobot seeker would say when compared to the infamous Starscream. The identical nature of the Seekers is due to the universal need for firepower and speed honed over countless generations of war, and when turned onto a organic race, none can doubt their effectiveness.

Suggest you clearly delineate the Decepticon Seekers from the Autobot Aerialbots. Also, technically speaking, the name for Transformers is "Cybertronian." --Voivode1 (talk) 16:29, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Velocitronian

As the seekers are in the air, Velocitronian are on land. Inconceivably fast, able to navigate terrain with ease and able to shift to primary form if the road gets to rough for that, the Velocitronian are able to rush in, guns blazing and speed out guns still bazeing, into the sunset. While seekers look for strategic targets the Velocitronian keep an eye open for tactical opportunity, a open flank may as well be a high way and they are quick to take advantage of any way they can to reduce an enemy's overwhelming numbers. and make no mistake, transformers are always out numbered against the organic army's they often fight and where it not for the Velocitronian that gap would be wider then it would always appear to be for intelligence ! The Velocitronian are always on the look out for a opportunity to test there speed against foes almost as fast as they are such as the White Scars, Raven Wing, Dark Eldar and other forces, and they love to face there opposite number in the great transformer civil war.

????Points

Heavy Support

Ork Survivors

Occasional orks managed to subdue and overwhelm a transformer, or manage to catch one unaware and managed to subdue it, or worse manage to capture one that was injured and accidentally left for dead.. The sheer force of the orks gestalt field pushed the spark to an ember, reducing the transformer, to a cage within it's body as the orks carve and weld, and change the orginal form into something more powerful. When the transformer is rescued, the memory's of these dark times lay thick in it's mind and it often has to spend many days in therapy coming to grips with it's new form, and make no mistake, while the Autobots disagree with how it is done, no one can argue with the result as the Transformer now bristle with fire power and heavy weapons. The Decepticons however have no scruples with deploying these soliders right away, meaning they never recover and are almost driven insane by there time spent in ork hands and upon the battle field, but the madness of the orks stay in them and there battle cry's shake the autobots to there core.

Primary	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Ork Survivors	4	2	5	5	4	3	3	8	3+
Ork Survivors Alternative	BS	F	S	B	HP
Battlewagon	2	14	12	10	3

• Unit Composition: 1 Ork Survivor Battlewagon
• Unit Type: (Primary) Infantry, Very Bulky/ (Alternative) Vehicle, Transport capacity 1, tank
• Wargear: Primary: Kannon, Tank plating, Power weapon,. Alternative: Kannon,
  • May take up to four big shootas or Rokkits +10-can only be fired in Vehicle form.
  • May replace the Kannon with a Auto-Kannon+30
  • May replace the Kannon with a lobber.+30
  • May replace the Kannon with a Zapp Kannon.
• Special rules
  • Alignment:If the warlord is a Autobot gain 2 BS, if warlord is a Decpticon gain Furious charge, rage and hatred(Everyone!) special rules.

Weapon Table	Range	S	AP	Type
Kannon (AP)	36"	8	2	Ordinance 1
Kannon (HE)	36"	5	4	Ordinance 1 blast
Kannon (Canister)	-	5	3	Ordinance, torrent
Big shoota	36	5	5	Assault 3
Rokkit	48"	8	3	Assault 1
Auto-Kannons	36"	7	3	Ordinance 3
lobber	48	5	4	Ordinance 1, large blast
Zapp Kannon	36	2d6	d6	Ordinance 1,

The AngryPirate´s proposed units and rules

• Transformers are machines. Using a non-vehicle profile for their humanoid form makes things way more complicated rules-wise and it makes absolutely no sense when you think about things like Poisoned weaponry and Haywire weaponry.

• Unit Characters are unnecessary and it makes it much harder to create the profile of the unit.

Special Rules

Transform!

Transforming is a fundamental part of cybertronian biology. Even in their earliest days, cybertronians could transform from a bipedal humanoid form to an alternate vehicle mode. The vehicles come in all shapes in sizes, but they all give a distinct advantage in combat.

Models with this special rule have two profiles, each profile represents one of the forms that transformer can take. When deploying you must choose which form each unit with this special rule is in. If a model has a Flyer form then it must either start the game in reserves or use a non-Flyer form during the first game turn. All models in a single unit must use the same form. You cannot for example have 2 models in a unit using their humanoid form and a third model using its vehicular form. Before moving a unit in the movement phase you may change the form of all models in the unit to any of the units other available forms. When a unit with this special rule arrives from reserves you must choose which form the unit arrives using.

Leader of the Machiens/Whatever

A model with this special rule may join friendly units of vehicles provided the model shares at least one form with the unit it is joining. Any model with this special rule is affected by Look Out, Sir as if it were a non-vehicle character, in addition any model with this special rule pass Look Out, Sir rolls on a 2+.

HQ

Random Character

		WS	BS	S	FA	SA	RA	I	A	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Humanoid Form	??? pts	4	3	5	11	10	10	3	3	3	Vehicle (Walker, Open-topped)	1 Unique
Automobile Form			3		11	10	10			3	Vehicle (Open-topped)

Wargear:

• Energon Blaster

Special Rules:

• Transform!
• Leader of the Machines (Humanoid Form only)

Troops

Automobile Transformers

		WS	BS	S	FA	SA	RA	I	A	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Humanoid Form	??? pts	4	3	5	11	10	10	3	3	3	Vehicle (Walker, Open-topped)	3 Droids
Automobile Form			3		11	10	10			3	Vehicle (Open-topped)

Wargear:

• Energon Blaster

Special Rules:

• Transform!

Options:

• May add up to three additional Droids - ?? pts/model
• May add up to three additional Droids...?? pts/model

Fast Attack

Jet Transformers

		WS	BS	S	FA	SA	RA	I	A	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Humanoid Form	??? pts	4	3	5	11	11	10	3	3	3	Vehicle (Walker)	1 Jet Transformer
Jetplane Form			3		11	11	10			3	Vehicle (Flyer, Supersonic)

Wargear:

• Energon Blaster
• Two (Energon?/whatever) Missiles

Special Rules:

• Transform!
• Skyfire (Jetplane Form only)

Options:

• May add up to two additional Jet Transformers - ?? pts/model

Chopper Transformers

		WS	BS	S	FA	SA	RA	I	A	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Humanoid Form	??? pts	4	3	5	11	10	10	3	3	3	Vehicle (Walker)	1 Chopper Transformer
Helicopter Form			3		11	11	10			3	Vehicle (Flyer)

Wargear:

• Energon Blaster
• Heliblade

Range	S	AP	Type
-	User	4	Melee, Rampage

Special Rules:

• Transform!
• Vector Dancer (Helicopter Form only)
• Chopper: (Helicopter Form only) A model with this special rule may not move flat out.

Options:

• May add up to two additional Chopper Transformers - ?? pts/model

HOLY SHIT WHY DID YOU NOT TELL ME ABOUT THIS!?!

SERIOUSLY I HAD ALL SORTS OF SHIT FROM DAKKADAKKA I CAN USE ON THIS. GIVE ME A DAY OR TWO. But seriously you guys could have told me you had this up your sleeves. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 20:48, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Where would one even go to a advertise ones fandex? Angry Pirate (talk) 21:08, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, I am more than willing to see what you have. If you could post a link that would be fantastic. I can more than certainly handle fluff aspects, but I'm too retarded and indecisive when it comes to crunch. Angry Pirate has been a blessing because of that since he's far better at making crunch than I am. Life has been crushing my time to support the own thing I started, but I truly want to see this through to the end.--Hellsing612 (talk) 21:54, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

I had some basic units and a number of heavy supports I believe, with an eye to making the Transformers something akin to the Ogre Kingdoms from Warhammer fantasy in how they'd handle. Give me a bit to drag them out.Crazy Cryptek (talk) 05:35, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Found the thread. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450552.page It's a bit of an old shame but hey, I'm trash anyway. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 10:54, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Random Special Characters

So, I realize that there's a lot more general work to be done on this than specific special characters, but I'd like to see a few minor characters work their way into this. I was thinking in particular of the following:

Nightbeat--He was basically a detective and intelligence man, I think it'd be cool to have him be a Telion-esque upgrade for a unit of sneaky Autobots--or maybe like buying Harker for Guard vets but actually useful. The Combaticons: Maybe we can make them individual HQ (Onslaught) Elites (Blast Off and Vortex), Fast Attack (Swindle) and Heavy Support (Brawl) choices for Decepticons, and then make a formation that lets them become Bruticus. --Brother-Captain Dudebro (talk) 15:34, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

The Transforming Mechanic

I was writing up random unit profiles and I realized that maybe transformation shouldn't be something automatic, in a manner similar to Imperial Guard orders. I was thinking an initiative test would be an interesting criteria for it--and if the test is failed, conversion still occurs at the end of the turn, switching from Walker to Tank or whatever, but if the test is passed, it occurs at the start of the movement phase. So you're not pinned down due to bad rolls, but you can't spam transformation constantly--Brother-Captain Dudebro (talk) 20:15, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Perhabs it would be best for it always just to be at the end of the turn? One thing that came to my mind was flyers being able to immediately charge after changing form. It is pretty cool thematically but it might limit design space if your models can fly in, then charge, leave combat during your opponent's turn with Hit and Run, then fly off to another spot, then charge again all without ever being hit by anything but Snap Shots. You could of course just say flyers cannot charge the turn they change shape, which you would probably have to do if you do not want to change the timing of the changing shape. Angry Pirate (talk) 21:21, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Ah, fair point, didn't consider that! End of the turn would be best, then, yeah. Or we can fluff any extra limitations on flyers as being them having to get a decent start to get airborne/land....--64.251.51.247 15:37, 15 September 2016 (UTC) Oops, forgot to log in before signing. LOL. That was me.--Brother-Captain Dudebro (talk) 15:38, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Sample statline

Cliffjumper (Primary): Vehicle, Walker (Character)

WS5 BS4 S4 AVF: 12 AVS: 11 AVR:10 A2 I4 HP3

Wargear: Neutron Assault Rifle (Twin-Linked Multi-Laser), two power weapons, Cloaker (If this model does not shoot during its Shooting phase, it gains the Stealth and Shrouded special rules until it next makes a shooting attack (Including during other phases, such as when firing Overwatch in the assault phase.)

Special Rules: Roll out!: At the end of your turn, this model may transform immediately to alt-form, using the alt-form datasheet for all purposes until such time as conversion is performed again to reverse this--a model may not transform if it is Crew Stunned or Immobilized. Note that any damage causing Shaken effects, as well as hull point loss, will also affect the alt-form. If a model with this special rule would have less than 1 hull point remaining after conversion due to prior damage, it is immediately Wrecked when conversion is next attempted. However, Weapon Destroyed results only affect the form the model was in when they were inflicted. Sentient Automaton: All models with this special rule are subject to Leadership tests, as well as morale, pinning, and Fear tests, even if they are vehicles, in which case they count as being Leadership 10.

Infiltrate, Scouts, Independent Character.

Options:

May replace Neutron Assault Rifle and one power weapon with a Subsonic Repeater (Assault Cannon), gaining the Fleet special rule until it is removed, (ex., by a Weapon Destroyed result)--xx points

-OR-

May replace Neutron Assault Rifle and one power weapon with a Nucleon Charge Rifle (Rail Rifle? Autocannon?), gaining the Sniper special rule until it is removed (ex., by a Weapon Destroyed result)--xx points

-OR-

May replace Neutron Assault Rifle and one power weapon with a Scatter Blaster (Twin-Linked Meltagun?)--Free

May take a Heavy Weapon:

--Chaos-Rift Combustor (Multiple Rocket Pod)--xx points

--Thermo Rocket Launcher (Cyclone Missile Launcher)--xx points

--Scrapmaker (Taurox Gatling Cannon)--xx points

May take up to one item each from the Assault T.E.C.H. and/or the Utility T.E.C.H. lists.

Cliffjumper (Alt-Form): Vehicle, Fast (Character)

BS:4 Armor: (F 11, S 11, R: 11)HP: 3 Wargear: Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Searchlight

Special Rules:

Transform! At the end of your turn, this model may immediately transform to primary form, using the primary form datasheet for all purposes until such time as conversion is performed again to reverse this. A model may not transform if it is Crew Stunned or Immobilized.Note that any damage causing Shaken effects, as well as hull point loss, will also affect the alt-form. If a model with this special rule would have less than 1 hull point remaining after conversion due to prior damage, it is immediately Wrecked when conversion is next attempted. However, Weapon Destroyed results only affect the form the model was in when they were inflicted. Sentient Automaton: All models with this special rule are subject to Leadership tests, as well as morale, pinning, and Fear tests, even if they are vehicles, in which case they count as being Leadership 10.

Jink

Options:

None. --Brother-Captain Dudebro (talk) 13:02, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Just realized I buggered up the formatting. One sec.