Talk:Codex - Aeronautica Imperialis Angry Initiative Edition

Overview

• The navy is not supposed to be a coherent force, fluff or by design - it's supposed to show up, blast apart one or two single high value targets, weather the return fire, and run away. As such we're just doing flyers and maybe support crew (spotters?) here. A lot of wargear and options are going to be one shot. As flyers are a. rare and b. expensive enough that it won't get onerous, I believe this is the only place in the game where it will be consistently worth while.

With the advent of the Death from the Skies book, I hope to make the imperial flyers at least *interesting* compared to flying D blasts, assuming they get an angry codex at all.

I'll admit that i'm a bit steeped in a pretty vicious meta to have gone overboard here in places and so some thoughtful editing may be in order.

Having ruminated on it for a while it'll be a good idea to have a central 'shop' for one shot weapons with consistent prices and then limit how many can be taken on a per-hardpoint basis. I'll deal with that later. - F

• The plan was as simple as plotting in the rules for all the flyers, change the lascannons and then change point values. I don´t really feel like spotters fit in, there aren´t any models for them so I´d rather avoid it.

I´m sorry but I´m not entirely clear on what you are trying to communicate. If you are asking whether or not the Imperial Navy is going to get an Angry Codex, then the answer is yes to the extent that I´ll try to balance the existing FW flyers but the intention is not for you to be able to play Imperial Navy vs Orks/Necrons/Eldar. The Imperial Navy should definitely only be available as allies and should not be your entire army, unless you are playing unbound, in which case, do whatever you want I guess. I don´t really get what you mean by flying D? Are you just whining about Eldar (I don´t mind, I do that often) or are you talking about super heavy flyers?

I don´t think any of your suggestions are OP, but Adaptive Airframe is a bit weird. While it isn´t a bad idea, it´s definitely not worded right, it doesn´t make any sense that you become lighter by taking on weight and then losing that same weight again.

Organizing all options into lists is a bad idea and in the future I would like to move away from all lists with all the angry codices. Not only does it allow for less fine tuning it´s IMO also just harder to use when I am making an army list. - Pirate

• Ok, if Angry Imperial Navy is solely as an addon force with current models then that's fair enough. Since DFA offers flyer only bound structures, i'd imagine an Angry version would slot them in just as easily.

Regarding Flying D, yes it was a case of whining about Eldar. What I was hoping to do was present options to make imperial air power both interesting and useful in the face of that.

My proposal for Adaptive Airframe is, effectively, the less combat value a unit has after blowing its proverbial load, the better chance it has to survive. Regarding re-wording would it be better to say 'has a standing cover save of (x), reduced by 1 for each weapon system not yet expended' perhaps?

Regarding the list I really don't follow you there - are you saying you'd prefer to keep things in the 'each unit option has everything it can take stated directly in it's entry' format from, say the 4th ed Space Marine Codex? -F

• Nothing to add there.

When you are considering a unit´s cost you should compare it to an angry space marine, so 65 pts with a champion and all their options at their given price. I think flyers should be bad if your opponent is taking anti-air, so if you are taking a flyer heavy army you should be more severely countered by an anti-flyer army than if you had a horde army against an anti-horde army.

Yeah that works, it´s an interesting idea. Would you mind testing it to see how it works in practice?

That is exactly what I´m saying. - Pirate

• I decided not to implement your changes mainly because I feel like the navy should be as simple as possible. While it might make some sense to implement the increased manouverability when a flyer has dropped its load, I would have to implement it on all bombers for it to make sense and it just doesn't seem like it's needed. I went for simplicity which seems to be what GW has been going for in recent times.

I appreciate the work you put in and I'm sorry I won't be making use of it at this moment. I might implement it later... Or sooner if you convince me. - Pirate

• I honestly think Angry Sailor is Done - there's not much in it and IA/Aeronautica was functional, just needed some updates. The adaptive airframe thing was a fanciful idea but i've given up on it having tried it out in a couple of games.PSC Wintergreen (talk) 10:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Special Rules

- Servo Guided

The weapon contains the skull of a downed Navy pilot, his cerebral matter repurposed as a vengeful missile guidance system. A weapon with this special rule counts as twin linked when shooting at a vehicle.

- Limited Warload

To save weight and preserve maneuverability and speed, this weapon has only a limited amount of ammunition. At the end of any phase where this weapon has fired roll a d6. On a roll of a 1 the weapon has run out of ammunition and may not be fired again, but may still be destroyed by a Weapon Destroyed result.

- Extra Ammo

You may re-roll the result of the Limited Warload special rule once per game.

- High Altitude Flyer

This flyer is built with a sealed internal environment and modified engines allowing it to operate for long periods in a thin atmosphere. At the start of the flyer's movement phase, you may elect to achieve and maintain a high altitude flight which lasts until the flyer's next movement phase. Doing so causes all weapons shot by the flyer to have their range reduced by 18 or 36 (player's choice) to a minimum of 0 when not shooting at a Flyer or Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature. In turn, all weapons shooting at the flyer, except those mounted on Flyers or Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures are reduced by the same amount. In addition any Bombs dropped by the flyer scatter an additional D3 for 18 or d6 for 36.

- Adaptive Airframe (X)

The flyer becomes more maneuverable as it sheds ammunition. For every 2 bombs or Single Shot weapons used, and for each Limited Warload weapons that have run out of ammunition, the flyer's cover save improves by 1 up to the maximum indicated. This does not affect Jinking.

-Air Defence mount

The weapon is designed to shoot down hostile aircraft from the air, often independent of the host flyer. The weapon has the Interceptor USR. You may also choose to grant it the Skyfire USR.

-Air to Air

The weapon is calibrated for high speed interdiction of hostile aircraft, but may overshoot if aimed at a ground target. The weapon has the Twin Linked and Sky Fire special rules.

- Strategic (Bomb)

A bomb. You use any number of Strategic Bombs in any one bombing run, X is equal to the number of bombs used. In addition, you do not need to target a specific unit and may place the template anywhere the model moved over. (This was introduced in Aeronautica and should have been kept)

- Tactical (Bomb)

A bomb. You use any number of Tactical Bombs in any one bombing run resolving each hit after the first as a multiple barrage attack, X is equal to the number of bombs used. For every bomb used, reduce the number of weapons that can be used at full ballistic skill in the following shooting phase by 1.

p.s. an 'Airborne' USR to recognise subjects of Skyfire instead of the full Flyer, SFMC/Skimmer would be nice to keep it coherent.

Wargear

- Smoke launchers - 5 pts

- Infra red targeting - 10 pts

Forgeworld updated - Since Dogfighting still doesn't exist adapted to the appropriate targets.

A vehicle equipped with this upgrade gains the night vision special rule. When shooting at Flyers, Fast Skimmers or Flying Monstrous Creatures, the model rerolls to hit rolls of 1.

- Legendary Insignia - 25 pts

The flyer bears a relic tail fin, wing or other armour section that once belonged to a legendary hero of the Imperial Navy. Any Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy, or Militarum Tempestus infantry unit automatically passes a regroup check if within 24" of this model. If this model suffers an Explodes! result, all Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy, or Militarum Tempestus infantry units within 12" must make a pinning check.

- Tactical Auspex Pod - varies

Instead of a weapon system, the flyer mounts a long range optical scanner and radar system to support its squadron. All models in the unit may fire an additional weapon during the shooting phase at full ballistic skill unless Crew Shaken or Jinking, and any bombs dropped reduce scatter distance by 2. This wargear is not cumulative with itself.

 - Naval Autocannon munitions

A model equipped with autocannons or long barreled auto cannons may purchase special ammunition as detailed. During the shooting phase, you may choose to use special ammunition instead of the standard autocannon's profile. All auto cannons in a unit must fire using the same profile.

HE shells - 30 pts S8 AP4 Heavy 1 small blast. If a model equipped with HE shells suffers a weapon destroyed result on an auto cannon, it also counts as crew shaken but does not lose an additional hull point.

- AP shells - 25 pts S7 AP4 Heavy 2 Rending

- Flechette shells - 20 pts S5 AP4 Heavy 2 Ignores Cover

Chaff/Flares

- Chaff/Flares - 10 pts

• These have been modified by the Forgeworld Death from the skies update into something rather sensible, albeit poorly worded. Rewritten as follows:

Single use item, once used it is exhausted and may not be used again in the same game. When the flyer is the target of a shooting attack by a weapon with the word "missile" in its name or with the Missile type, the flyer gains a 4+ invulnerable save against that weapon. Flares are used after the to-hit roll has been made but before rolling for damage.

I would suggest that a flyer should be able to take as many of these as it wants, but 10 points is about right for the benefit of not jinking before getting hit.

• Is there any modelling option for them? If not I don't see why they should be included? In a world where most races don't use missiles, why would you arm your flyers with anti-missile weapons. I get that the imperium does a lot of infighting but it seems unneccessary. Angry Pirate (talk) 20:23, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
• FW did do flare launchers at one point - nowadays you just put the sentinel smoke launchers instead. As for why - Flakk missiles are a thing, as are Tau's Smart Missile Systems, the Stormsurge's xd6 missiles and all that, all of which can get skyfire.PSC Wintergreen (talk) 08:56, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

- Auspex Scrambler - 25 pts A model with the Skyfire special rule reduces its ballistic skill by 1 when shooting at the flyer unless it is a zooming flyer or swooping monstrous creature.

Weapons

Krak Bomb S6 AP4 Small blast

Heavy Krak Bomb S7 AP4 Large Blast

Stormshard Bomb S4 AP- Ignores Cover,Shred, Small Blast

Heavy Stormshard Bomb S5 AP- Ignores Cover,Shred,Rending, Massive (7") Blast

Krakstorm Bomb S8 AP3 Apocalyptic Blast, Strategic Bomb

Sky Strike Missile Heavy 1 60" S7 Ap2 Air-to-Air

Hellstrike Missile Heavy 1 72" S8 AP3 Ordnance, Single Shot

Long Barrel Autocannon Heavy 2 72" S7 AP4

Marauder

I suggest Krakstorm Bomb instead of Heavy Bomb as i'm introducing a bit more variety in bomb loads. Also, the Marauder is supposed to be an intercontinental strategic bomber, not a low-to-ground attacker (that's the Destroyer). To that end I suggest it gain the High Altitude Flyer rule from earlier, and a Tactical Auspex Pod.

Marauder Destroyer

As a long time user of the MD, I have the following to say about it:

1. It's heavy as hell 2. It's horribly *horribly* overcosted, much like the standard marauder 3. The multi hellstrike effect is best used for engaging multiple light/medium vehicles or wiping out one critical threat 4. the triple autocannons are, I believe, fine as they are 5. The two turret weapons (same for the bomber's Heavy Bolters) should be given Skyfire independently, since that's what they do (and since skyfire isn't automatic on flyers now)

Given the background for the destroyer is all out ground attack against armored orks who would be able to fire back with orky twin linked shooting, needing more armour than the high altitude bomber. I'd suggest then, that the role of the Angry Marauder Destroyer should be a one use kill shot. To that end I propose the following for its profile. The original Hellstrikes at s8 ap3 for +80 points is just wrong, so i've made the KillShot effect more useful, instead of just cutting into the price.

		BS	FA	SA	RA	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Marauder Bomber	450 pts	3	12	12	10	9	Super-heavy Flyer	1 Marauder Destroyer

Special Rules

• Tank Hunters
• Strafing Run
• Attack Flyer

Wargear:

• 3 Twin-linked autocannon
• 1 twin-linked heavy bolter with Air Defence Mount
• 1 twin-linked Assault Cannon with Air Defence Mount
• 6 Krakstorm bomb payloads
• 8 hellstrike missiles

Range	S	AP	Type
-	8	3	Bomb X, Apocalyptic Barrage, Heavy Bombing Run

- Hellstrike Pyroclasm

• If a Marauder Destroyer fires 2 or more hellstrike missiles at the same target, those shots gain the twin linked USR
• If a Marauder Destroyer fires 4 or more hellstrike missiles at the same target, those shots exchanges the Ordnance USR for Armourbane and Shred
• If a Marauder Destroyer fires All 8 hellstrike missiles at the same target, each shot is counted as AP1 OR gains the Small Blast and Ignores Cover USRs

Vulture Gunship

The vulture is very very *very* good in it's current incarnation, to the point that I genuinely believe it requires something of a Nerf as I personally auto include it. As it's an 'intruder' aircraft, and to preserve its highly customizable nature, I propose it be given a limited ammo gimmick instead of blindly jacking the price ( except on the Punisher, that's too good)

		BS	FA	SA	RA	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Vulture Gunship	110 pts	3	12	12	10	3	Flyer,Hover	1-4 Vulture Gunships

Wargear:

• chin Turret mounted heavy Bolter'

Special Rules

• Strafing Run
• Vector Dancer
• Adaptive Airframe (5+)
• Attack Flyer

The Vulture Gunship is equipped with an inner and outer pair of wing mounted pylons with a 45 degree firing arc. Either pair may be exchanged for one of the following weapons for the points indicated.

- 2 MultiLasers - 15 pts
- Twin Linked Limited Warload Autocannon - 10 pts
- Twin linked Angry Lascannon - 15 pts
- 2 Servo Guided Hellstrike Missiles - 5 pts
- 6 Hunter Killer Missiles - 15 pts 
- 2 Limited Warload Multiple Rocket Pods - 10 pts
- 4 Tactical Krak Bombs - 10 pts

The Inner pair pylons may instead take one of the following

- Tactical Auspex Pod - 35 pts
- Extra Ammo - 5 pts
- 2 Tactical Heavy Krak Bombs - 15 pts

Both sets of pylons may instead take one the following

- Limited Warload Twin Linked Punisher Cannon - 60 pts ( even at 165 it's incredible, mathhammer saying it kills 6 marines, 1 centurion or wounding a wraithknight reliably)
- 12 Tactical Stormshard Bombs - 15 ( one shot bombing attack by 3 Wyverns for 120, Wyvern cost would be 175 for every turn)
- 4 Tactical Heavy Krak Bombs - 20 pts

Thunderbolt Fighter

The thunderbolt is a heavy fighter which could stand pretty well against the Death from the Skies units as it punches above its weight. It is however horribly expensive in the stock forgeworld loadout, so i've cut the price down to something a bit more reasonable for what it does, and how easy it is to kill.

		BS	FA	SA	RA	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Thunderbolt Fighter	150 pts	3	11	11	10	3	Flyer	1-4 Thunderbolt Fighters

Special Rules

• Supersonic (Stock)
• Repair (Stock)
• Adaptive Airframe (6+)

Wargear:

• 2 Twin Linked Autocannon' (stock)
• 1 Twin Linked Lascannon'(stock)

Options:

• 4 Servo Guided Hellstrike Missiles - 10
• 6 Tactical Krak Bombs - 15
• May take items from the Armoury

Lightning Fighter

The lightning is made of guardsmen armour but is so ridiculously fast it should benefit far more from it than it does. Consequently i've given it a potential 4+ cover save without jinking once it's run out of ammunition. It's supposed to be optionally a multi-role as well, which stock represents as dropping the long-range autocannon for bombs.

		BS	FA	SA	RA	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Lightning Fighter	120 pts	3	10	10	10	2	Flyer	1-4 Lightning Fighters

Special Rules

• Supersonic (Stock)
• Vector Dancer (Stock)
• Adaptive Airframe (4+)
• Fighter

Wargear:

• 1 Long Barreled Limit Warload Autocannon'
• 1 Twin Linked Lascannon'(stock)

Options:

• May replace Long Barreled Autocannon with 2 Servo Guided Hellstrike Missiles - Free
• May replace Long Barreled Autocannon with 4 Tactical Krak Bombs and gain the Strafing Run USR - 10 pts

May Take one of the following:

• 4 additional Servo Guided Hellstrike Missiles 10 pts
• 4 additional Tactical Krak Bombs 10 pts
• 4 Skystrike Missiles 10 pts

• May take items from the Armoury

Avenger Fighter

The avenger is an odd case in that it's designed as a flyer but equipped as ground attack and originally left with only 2 hp, which makes no sense for the role. As an aside i've seen some good conversions of the Nephilim to represent this.

Anon, here; bump its side armour to 11 and give it an extra hullpoint for 15pts? worth trying at least. Anecdotally it runs quite nicely vs local meta stuff, (flyrants, blackstars, anything with a 3+ or less save).

		BS	FA	SA	RA	HP	Unit Type	Composition
Avenger Strike Fighter	145 pts	3	12	11	10	3	Flyer	1-4 Avenger Strike Fighters

Special Rules

• Adaptive Airframe (5+)
• Attack Flyer

Wargear:

• Avenger Bolt Cannon'
• 1 Twin Linked Lascannon'(stock)
• 1 Air Defence Mount Heavy Stubber '(stock)

Options: May Take one of the following:

• Two Limited Warload Autocannon - 10 pts
• Tactical Auspex Pod - 25 pts
• 12 Hunter Killer Missiles - 20 pts - originally this was 2 standard missile launchers (for 40 pts), but we're going for a theme here
• 2 Multi Lasers - 5 pts
• '2 Servo Guided Hellstrike Missiles - Free

• May take items from the Armoury