Talk:Codex - Imperial Guard Angry Monkey Edition

Discussions

Misc

Vehicle Orders

• Engage fire support isn´t worded very well IMO. If a leman russ fires its heavy stubber into a unit would all other models including the original Leman Russ in the unit get the effect from that point onwards?storms

Embarkation combinations

• The current FAQ says "Thou shalt not generate AOE effects if embarked in a transport, nor shall you gain benefits from a unit embarked unless specifically stated". How do we want this to work for IG? Kurov's Aquila and the Master of The Fleet make all kinds of sense screaming at people from inside a chimera, but I can testify it makes them considerably better.
• I don't think it is neccessary that Kurov's Aquila works inside vehicles, it might be for the better it does not. Taking a large predatory bird inside a transport seems like a bad idea, beyond the tight space for the bird you also have to make space for the holographic image of Kurov himself. It's a mess that I wouldn't subject any commander to. Having the item that protected also makes it quite a bit more powerful, which I am not interested in, I would rather lower the price if it is not currently worth it.

I've been playing with the officer of the fleet being able to use his ability while embarked, I've already nerfed spamming them and there is no good reason (fluffwise) that you should be incapable of using telepathy while embarked on a transport if you can do it while on a spaceship. Angry Pirate (talk) 19:02, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

• Kurov's aquilla is Very Very good in 2 circumstances;

1. embedded in a gun line behind an ADL
2. hiding behind/in (with a chimera) a super heavy or tank squadron

I use the latter in standard, but if it's not to work embarked then if it's to have a price cut ( to say, 40 pts) then maybe have it only affect infantry, and enlarge the aoe? :This prevents the situation of getting 5/7 reroll to wound plasma cannons for 300~ pts (CS, Kurov, Executioner), which is broken way out of proportion using the marine squad calibrationPSC Wintergreen (talk) 09:28, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

• I did what you said, except for increasing its range, I'm not sure exactly how good PE is on infantry.

I'd rather have 3 UP relic and 2 meh relics than 1 OP relic and 4 meh relics, simply because they aren't models you need to be able to use, just a few more tactical and list building options.

I would not want a relic to be core or neccessary to use a tactic. Angry Pirate (talk) 14:43, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Oddity in the Laser Weaponry=

• So why is the Power Overwhelming special rule there if nothing has it? The Greater Meh (talk) 17:05, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
• It has been removed. It was part of a change that made:

Lascannons (anti light-medium tanks -> anti heavy tanks)

Melta guns (anti heavy tanks -> anti light-medium tanks and terminators)

Plasma guns (anti MEQ, TEQ and anti light tanks -> anti MC and anti MEQ)

Despite it having the intended outcome (making Land Raiders and Terminators more awesome and giving better options to combat Wraithknights), it was scrapped in favour of a pts increase in melta weapons in order to lessen the amount of changes going from the official releases to the Angry Codices. Angry Pirate (talk)

New Equipment

The Winged Skull: A squad receiving an order from a model with a Winged Skull may use its leadership instead of their own for testing whether the order takes effect.

Order of St. Kark: A Comissar or Lord Commissar with an Order of St. Kark may choose to execute two models from his own unit to have all models in his unit gain the Counter-Attack special rule until the end of the turn. This action must be performed before Overwatch but after the Charge has been declared.

Drusian Laurels: A model equipped with Drusian Laurels gain a 6+ Invulnerable save.

Auspex: If a unit including a model with an Auspex fires at an enemy unit within 12", that unit loses the Shrouded and Stealth special rules if they have them until casualties have been removed from said shooting attack.

Long-Range Sweeper: Roll a D6 for each enemy unit wishing to Infiltrate. On a 4+ that unit must deploy normally.

Cogs of Het: Any model equipped with a Cog of Het has the Stubborn Special Rule while within 6" of a friendly vehicle.

Spotter's Magnoculars The model and its unit has the Night Vision Special Rule.

Vox Caster: A unit including a Vox caster may issue orders to any other squad with a Vox caster, regardless of range.

Recovery Gear: If a vehicle with recovery gear is immobilised, then in subsequent turns it may attempt to repair itself. To make the attempt, roll a D6 at the end of the movement phase; on the roll of a 4+, the vehicle is no longer immobilised.

Relic Plating: Any vehicle with Relic plating, generates D3 Warp Charges in the opponents psychic phase.

Bionics: A model equipped with Bionics gain the Feel no Pain Special Rule.

Duelist Honours: A model with Dualist Honours increases its Weapon skill by 2.

Signum: A unit including a Signum may add 1 to their BS.

Targeter: When performing a shooting attack, a model equipped with a targeter ignores cover saves gained by shooting through other units.

Victory Sash: All units from Codex: Astra Militarum within 12" of a model with a Victory Sash may add 1 to their LD. If the Character is embarked upon a vehicle or building the Victory Sash has no effect.

Macharian Cross: At the start of the battle, after deployment but before the roll to seize the initiative, you may move up to 3 units 6". A unit utilizing this rule may not charge in the first game turn, nor may units utilizing the infiltrate special rule or Scout special rule make use of a Macharian Cross.

The Black Plate: A model equipped with The Black Plate increases their armour save to 4+, which is further increased to 3+ in close combat.

Fist of Brockus: Is a weapon with the following profile:

S	AP	Type
x2	2	Melee, Unwieldy, Defiance Eternal

Defiance Eternal: The Lord Commissar's Aura of Discipline's Range is increased to 12"

Hopper Mines: For each squad equipped with Hopper Mines, before deployment you may place a mine marker anywhere on your table half. All open terrain within 6" of this marker, counts as "Trapped". For each model that moves through "Trapped" terrain it must roll a D6. For each 1 it rolls you may place a large blast with the centre upon a model from the unit. All models touched by the template takes a Strength 4, AP5 hit.

Veteran Crew: A vehicle equipped with Veteran Crew counts its leadership value as being 8.

Ace Crew: A vehicle equipped with an Ace Crew counts as having a Ballistic Skill of 4.

Target Finders

• Did you make these up or? (Nothing wrong if you did) Angry Pirate (talk) 08:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
• I made up the rules, but the equipment was already existing TheRavenousEye (talk) 08:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Cogs of Het

• Are these necessary?

Bionics

• Which regiment uses bionics? How does Invulnerable save make sense for a cyborg? Shouldn´t it be Feel No Pain (6+) since they can´t feel pain in their bionic limbs?

Honorifica

• Should be removed, when did vox casters become suicide bombs in a cinch? The blasts for all of the vehicles are also extremely large.

• It is supposed to represent an ordnance strike getting fired on the Guardsmans location. A glorious way to go for an otherwise worthless guardsman! Regarding the blast... yeah... It should probably be way smaller. It was also meant to cost at least 30 points. Are you opposed to the item as a whole?

• Yes, blowing up your own tanks is going to get old quickly methinks. It might be a heroic sacrifice the first time you use it, maybe even the second time, but if you keep on making it every game then it´s just going to get dumb. If it was taken on 3d6 using the highest dice it might be a heroic sacrifice of the individual rather than a heartless general giving the order once every battle. I don´t really care about the cost for now, that is besides the point. It´s just a little too grimdark for me. Next thing is going to be shooting into your own guys because huhr duhr people are worth less than the lasgun they are armed with. That´s just my opinion, do you want to go as far as possible in the life is cheap direction?

Signum

• It´s OP, especially for Marines. - Pirate

• Yes. I toyed with the idea for a little while, but came to the conclusion that it literally has no spot in the Guard Army. Nor any imperial Army for that matter. Will invent a replacement for the Signum. The original GW one feels worthless (or weird at the very least).

• I changed my mind, your version is cool. Only Devastator Sergeants are armed with Signums. I´ll just change it around. Angry Pirate (talk) 20:53, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Order of St. Kark and Winged Skull

• For one they might as well be in the options of those models rather than in the Special Issue Wargear list, second I think´d be better if they were rules upgrades like the Archon upgrades. Of course that would require 2-3 more upgrades for each of them, but that wouldn´t necessarily be a bad thing.

Mont'ka/Cadian relics

These are Actually Not That bad, and if opened up to the general monkey population with some adjustments would enrich things quite nicely

Celeritas

10 pts - Celeritas is a master crafted chain sword. When fighting in a challenge, the bearer of Celeritas has a 4+ Invulnerable save. For every succesful invulnerable save, the model inflicts an automatic hit with the rending special rule on the opponent in the challenge. These do not spill over into the combat if the opponent is killed.

Kabe's Herald

25 pts - One tank commander in the army may take Kabe's Herald. Whenever the Tank Commander succesfuly uses the Tank Orders special rule, he may apply the result to another Leman Russ squadron within 12".

The Iron Left

This one as written is just not good, and could be quite a lot of fun if the concept had been expanded.

35pts - The Iron Left is a powerfist. When fighting in a challenge if a 6 is rolled to wound, at the end of the combat roll 2d6 and a scatter dice. If a Hit! is rolled the opponent in the challenge is unaffected, otherwise reposition the model as if it had just deployed from deep strike, applying any mishap results immediately. If a double 1 is rolled for the scatter, The Iron Left may not be used for the rest of the game.

The Standard of the Lost 113th

This is 'meh' but useful.

35 pts - Replaces one Regimental Standard. Once per game at the start of the movement phase, unless the model is embarked you may declare the bearer will plant the standard. This makes the model immobile, but grants all Cadian units with 18" the Fearless rule so long as the model is in play.

Volkov's Cane

This is slightly too good as written

15 pts - Company Commander only. Volkov's Cane is a power maul. The first order issued by the bearer of Volkov's Cane automatically passes any leadership test.

Wrath of Cadia

This is a weird upgrade, but the concept is sound if amped a bit.

15pts - Wrath of Cadia is a laspistol that automatically wounds on a 4+ regardless of toughness. Any save characteristic used against shooting attacks from Wrath of Cadia better than 4+ is modified to 4+. In addition, Wrath of Cadia causes an automatic glancing hit on a vehicle on an AP roll of 6.

Formations and Detachment

• I think you should check out cadia supplement. I think it´d be better to make formations like in the cadia supplement and then have a chapter tactic-esque rule to represent the different regiments. - Pirate

The following is a WIP. - Pirate

Detachments

• While I think it would slightly up the power level of the average Guardsman, most of the Lasgun variants severely harms the Guardsman's maneuverability in an already very slow army. While I think heavy patterns of the Lasgun should be available I see no reason to replace the standard rapid-fire lasgun as the primary weapon of the Guards.

On the other hand it should be duly noted that the Heavy Lasguns create a distinct contrast between the mobile Veteran squads (which can be given shotguns) and the slow and cumbersome mass of infantry the Guards have. I still personally judge that the Heavy Lasgun should be a more specialised variant and not replace the standard M-36. - The Ravenous Eye

• The basic lasgun will be salvo 2/1, the M-36 is the specialised Cadian variant. I think the heavy variant fits cadians as they field a lot of non-mobilized infantry. Sure you can´t move and shoot enemies more than 12" away with the basic lasgun as well as the triplex, but you couldn´t in any editions before 6th. I would argue that it is somewhat ridiculous that moving has no impact on a normal humans firepower.

---

• There is an obvious power disparity between several of the lesser regiments and Cadia and Catachan. I am now proceeding to edit the Discussion page to a way of putting the other regiments up to roughly their power level. The alternative is to nerf Catachan and Cadia. - The Ravenous Eye

• Cadian mixed infantry and armour tactics and catachans more or less pure infantry based tactics have historically been really weak compared to armoured veteran squads with special weapons. I had initially thought about making the heavy 2 lasgun the only weapon and then let that be the buff that IG infantry needed, but not only is that not enough, it also doesn´t fit all regiments. I´m not saying your assessment is wrong, but you should keep in mind what IG meta has been for the past many years. Armoured veterans backed up by tanks and flyers.

Cadian Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Battle Group Vox-net: Models from this Detachment can issue orders up to 6" further than normal. When a model from this Detachment issues an order to a unit from this Detachment, roll an additional dice for the Leadership test and discard the highest roll.

• Sharpshooters: Models from this Detachment can re-roll To Hit rolls of 1 when firing lasguns or hot-shot lasguns.

• All Infantry models in this Detachment must replace their lasgun with a kantrael pattern lasguns:

	Range	S	AP	Type
Kantrael pattern lasgun	24"	3	-	Heavy 2

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Catachan Regiment

Restrictions: May not include Rough Riders or Artillery Platforms.

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Guerilla Fighters: All models with flak armour replace it with camo gear. Models from this Detachment have the Stealth (Forests and Jungles) and Move Through Cover special rules.

• Mk 4 Lascarbine: All models with lasguns in this detachment replace them with mk 4 lascarbines.

	Range	S	AP	Type
Mk 4 lascarbine	18"	3	-	Assault 2

• Brutal Close Combatants: Models from this Detachment may re-roll To Wound rolls of 1 in close combat.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Kriegian Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Siege Regiment: All Ordnance Weapons mounted on a vehicle in this Detachment add +1 when rolling on the Building Damage Chart. In addition, the price cost of fortifications included in this detachment is reduced by 50% (rounding up).

• Iron Discipline: Any unit in this Detachment may choose to regroup automatically and is not forced to take a Morale Check for suffering casualties during the Shooting Phase while it is within 6" of a friendly model with the Voice of Command Special rule.

• Close Quarters Specialists: All Infantry models in this Detachment add +1 to their WS characteristic.

• Lucius Pattern Lasguns: All Infantry models replace their lasgun with a Lucius pattern lasgun:

	Range	S	AP	Type
Lucius Pattern Lasgun	24"	3	-	Assault 1, Shred

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Rough Rider Auxiliary

• 1 Rough Rider Squad

---

• Should perhaps also be granted access to a couple of special units.

• Sure, just post the rules on this talk page and I´ll find a way to include them.

Armageddon Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Man and Steel: Any unit which has disembarked from a transport this turn may re-roll to hit rolls in that turns Shooting Phase.

• Ork-Fighters: During the sub-fight phase, any model with this special rule gains the Preferred Enemy (Orkz) special rule.

• Hive Soldiers: Any non-vehicle unit with this special rule has the Move Through Cover (Ruins) special rule.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Elysian Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Drop Regiment: All Veteran Squads and Walker units in this Detachment have the Deep Strike special rule.

• Sharpshooters: Models from this Detachment can re-roll To Hit rolls of 1 when firing lasguns or hot-shot lasguns.

• All Infantry models in this Detachment must replace their lasgun with a mk4 pattern lasgun:

	Range	S	AP	Type
Mk4 pattern lasgun	18"	3	-	Assault 2

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Tallarn Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Swift and Deadly: All units with this special rule gain Fleet and the Hit and Run special rules. Leman Russ Squadrons with this special rule may also Flat out during the Shooting Phase despite having the Heavy type.

• The Desert's Shadow: Veteran Squads in this Detachment have the Infiltrate special rule and gain the Pinning and Shred special rule on their Lasguns the first time they fire.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Rough Rider Auxiliary

• 1 Rough Rider Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Mordian Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Obedient To the Letter: All models with this special rule treat their Leadership as 10 when receiving orders.

• Iron Discipline: Any unit with this special rule may choose to regroup automatically provided it is within 6" of a friendly model with the Voice of Command Special rule. While within 12" of a model with the Voice of Command special rule a model with this special rule may re-roll failed Morale checks during the enemy shooting phase.

• All Infantry models in this Detachment must replace their lasgun with a triplex pattern lasguns:

Range	S	AP	Type
30"	4	-	Salvo 1/0, Old School
24"	3	-	Salvo 2/1, Old School
18"	2	-	Salvo 4/2, Old School

Old School: Note that this weapon fires a higher number of shots when the firing model has moved than when it has remained stationary.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Rough Rider Auxiliary

• 1 Rough Rider Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

• Shouldn't the S4 profile only shoot one shot provided the wielder did not move? It seems that the ruling is odd on that one unless the intent is a range 12" weapon which can fire one shot and then not assault subsequently.

• That is the intent. It´s mostly only going to be useful against AV 10 vehicles and T 7 MCs. It should also be noted that it´s possible to shoot at full range by ordering the unit to do so.

• Cheers. I like it. - The Ravenous Eye

Valhallan Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Tenacious: All non-Tank models in this Detachment gain the Stubborn and Move Through Cover special rules. The dozer blade upgrade costs 0 points for any unit in this Detachment.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Vostroyan Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Bound by Blood: Infantry Squads from this Detachment within 18" of a Veteran Squad from this Detachment may re-roll failed Leadership tests as well as rolls of 1 to hit during both the Shooting and Close Combat Phase.

• The Firstborn: Any non-vehicle model with this special rule may take a 6+ Armour save against hits with AP5.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Rough Rider Auxiliary

• 1 Rough Rider Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxilliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Tanith First and Only Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Gaunt´s Ghosts: Infantry models from this Detachment have the Infiltrate special rule. All Infantry models in this Detachment are armed with camo gear.

• All Infantry models in this Detachment must replace their lasgun with a kantrael pattern lasguns:

	Range	S	AP	Type
Kantrael pattern lasgun	24"	3	-	Heavy 2

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Praetorian Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Fierce Gangers: Models from this Detachment have the Furious Charge and Counter Attack special rules.

• In Line: While all models in a unit from this Detachment are connected through one or more models in base contact with each other, aææ models in that unit may re-roll all failed leadership tests as well as To-Hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Rough Rider Auxiliary

• 1 Rough Rider Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

Harakoni Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary. All models from this Detachment must start the game in Reserves.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Low Grav Born: All Infantry models in this Detachment do not Scatter when arriving from Deep Strike reserve and when using a Flyer´s Grav Chute special rule.

• Airborn Warriors: All Infantry models in this Detachment gain the Fearless special rule during a turn in which they arrive from Deep Strike reserve or disembark from a Flyer. In addition, during a turn in which a unit with this special rule arrives from deep strike it is completely immune to weapons with the Blast or Large Blast types.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Infantry Platoon

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Savlarian Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• In it for the Loot: Units with this special rule cannot contest objectives. They may capture objectives but only if no enemy units are within 3" of the objective. Each time an enemy unit is destroyed while one or more Infantry models from this Detachment is within 6" you gain 1 Victory Point.

• Scavengers: During deployment any model in this Detachment may replace its flamer with a ranged weapon with the Assault type an enemy Infantry or Jump Infantry model is armed with. Any Heavy Weapons Team model may replace its heavy bolter with a ranged weapon with the heavy type an enemy Bike, Jetbike, Infantry, Jump Infantry or Artillery model is armed with.

• Nitro Chem Inhalers: Any number of Veteran Squads in this Detachment may gain the Fearless special rule.

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Rought Rider Auxiliary

• 1 Rough Rider Squad

Psykana Division

---

• The Savlar should also have access to some special archaeotech artifacts.

• That´s a good idea.

• While the idea of the Savlar scavenging things is cool, I think we have the good old modelling problem, seeing as the weapons you need are going to be varying depending on your opponent's army. - TheRavenousEye

• I´ve got two options for fixing the problem:

- Scavengers: During deployment all models in this Detachment may replace its flamer with a ranged weapon with the Assault type an enemy Infantry or Jump Infantry model is armed with, all models must choose the same weapon. All Heavy Weapons Team model may replace its heavy bolter with a ranged weapon with the heavy type an enemy Bike, Jetbike, Infantry, Jump Infantry or Artillery model is armed with, all models must choose the same weapon. 

- Scavengers: During deployment any unit in this Detachment may replace its flamers with a ranged weapon with the Assault type an enemy Infantry or Jump Infantry model is armed with, all models in the same unit must choose the same weapon. Any Heavy Weapons Team model may replace its heavy bolter with a ranged weapon with the heavy type an enemy Bike, Jetbike, Infantry, Jump Infantry or Artillery model is armed with, all models in the same unit must choose the same weapon.

The second offers more freedom but you´ll need to mark which units are which on your army list and then write down which weapons each squad takes or lay down a note next to each unit with a flamer/bolter. You could also write it down on a piece of plastic with a marker and then simply wipe it off at the end of the game. I personally prefer the second and would dislike to see the rule go because it not only displays that they are scavengers but also that they are issued cheap weapons and they just grab whatever they can get. I´m aware that you would be proxying lascannons and plasma guns against SM and railguns and burst cannons against Tau but I don´t think that´s a problem.

• I think this can get out of hand very quickly. I mean at one hand the enemy could bring nothing of value (Necrons spring to mind, though it is not very likely) and on the other hand I think most people will feel weird splashing Tyranid bio-weapons from their Guardsmen at Tyranids. There is a certain RNG to it, but most of the time you'll be able to get away with some funky extra points and in some unfortunate cases you'll almost instantly win. To mention some examples, copying the Hive Guard Impaler Cannon for special weapon is pretty okay, copying The Destroyer's Gauntlet is an alright move, copying any Wraithweapon will not be funny etc. In most cases it won't be gamebreaking, but every now and then it will make for a fluff breaking and/or gamebreaking moment of awkwardness. However I would certainly laugh the first couple of times. - The Ravenous Eye

• Tyranid weapons are a problem fluff wise, but no more a problem than many other things are IMO. Like a blast weapon hitting all floors simultaneously or an Ork being able to pry open a tank fairly easily without anything but his trusty choppa. Is it worth it to sometimes say fuck common sense (and the fluff) a little bit when constructing an optional subset of rules because of the rule of cool? This isn´t a core mechanic, it´s a special rule for one of 5+ Regimental options.

On the other hand I don´t think wraith weapons would be particularly OP, Eldar vehicles are primarily AV 12/12/10 so S D-1 isn´t any better than a melta and almost no Eldar units have 2+ Sv so the flamer (whatever strength it has) will also have a rather small impact against an army that can most likely run hoops around your D weapons.

There is supposed to be an RNG element to it, if people like that sort of random element then they can use the regiment, but if you want a reliable army you can go for something else.

Mordant Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 0-1 Command, 1+ Core and 0+ Auxiliary.

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• All Infantry models in this Detachment must replace their lasgun with a kantrael pattern lasguns:

	Range	S	AP	Type
Kantrael pattern lasgun	24"	3	-	Heavy 2

• Campaign Trophies: At the start of the game, roll a D6 for each Veteran Squad in your army and consult the following table:

Roll	Bonus
1	Blades and Knives: All models in the Veteran Squad may be armed with two close combat weapons at no additional cost.
2	Demolition Supply: All models in the Veteran Squad may be armed with krak grenades at no additional cost, the Veteran Sergeant may also be armed with melta bombs.
3	Triplex Pattern Lasguns: All models in the Veteran Squad may replace their lasgun with a triplex pattern lasgun.
4	Vox Caster: One model in the Veteran Squad may be equipped with a vox-caster at no additional cost. Re-roll this result if if a model in the unit is already equipped with a vox-caster.
5	Makeshift-Armour: All models in the Veteran Squad may increase their Sv to 4+.
6	Dark Artefact: The Veteran Sergeant may be armed with a power sword, if the Veteran Sergeant does, add +1 to the Veteran Sergeant´s Attack characteristic. Each failed To Hit roll made by the Veteran Sergeant inflicts a single S 3 AP 3 hit on the nearest friendly model to the Veteran Sergeant, if no other models remain in the Veteran Sergeant´s unit, the Veteran Sergeant instead suffers an AP 3 wound.

	Range	S	AP	Type
Triplex pattern lasgun
	30"	4	-	Salvo 1/0, Old School
	24"	3	-	Salvo 2/1, Old School
	18"	2	-	Salvo 4/2, Old School

Old School: Note that this weapon fires a higher number of shots when the firing model has moved than when it has remained stationary.

• Departmento Munitorum 'Gifts': You may include an ammunition dump in your army for each Infantry Squad in this Detachment at no additional cost. All ammunition dumps must be placed at the same time and following the same rules as all other fortifications. Models within 2" of an ammunition dump re-roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 in the Shooting phase. A model in cover behind an ammunition dump has a 5+ cover save. The ammunition dump models can be no larger than 65 mm from one border to the other.

• Night Vision

Command

Regimental Command

• 1 Company Command Squad or Tank Commander
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Armoured Company

Infantry Company

Veteran Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Storm Trooper Auxiliary

• 1 Militarum Tempestus Squads
• 0-1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Rought Rider Auxiliary

• 1 Rough Rider Squad

Psykana Division

Formations

Aerial Company

Formation:

• 1-3 units from the following list in any combination:

- Valkyrie Squadron
- Vendetta Squadron

Restrictions:

None.

Special Rules:

• Aerial Formation: If a Reserves Roll for a unit from this Formation is successful, you can choose to automatically pass any remaining Reserves Rolls for units from this Formation this turn.

• Low Altitude Drop: At the start of your Movement phase, you can declare that one or more units from this Formation will enact low altitude drops. Any unit that does so may not Jink until your next Movement phase but any unit which disembarks from a vehicle using the Grav Chute Insertion special rule do not scatter during a turn in which the vehicle is making a low altitude drop.

Armoured Company

Formation:

• 1 Tank Commander
• 2-4 Leman Russ Squadrons
• 0-1 Baneblade, Banehammer, Banesword, Doomhammer, Hellhammer, Shadowsword or Stormlord
• 1-3 Enginseers

Restrictions:

None.

Special Rules:

• Formation Leader: The Tank Commanders order (if effective) affect all other vehicle units from this Formation within 12" of the Tank Commander (18" if this Formation is part of a Cadian Regiment).

Artillery Company

Formation:

• 1 Company Command Squad
• 2 units from the following list in any combination:

- Ordnance Battery 
- Hydra Battery 
- Wyvern Battery 

• 1 unit from the following list:

- Manticore 
- Deathstrike

• 1-3 Enginseers

Restritions:

The Company Command Squad must take a Chimera or Taurox as a Dedicated Transport.

Special Rules:

• Artillery Command: The Company Commander from this Formation can issue the 'Smite at Will', 'Supressive Fire!' and 'Fire on my Target!' orders to all units of vehicles from this Formation within 12" of the Company Commander (18" if this Formation is part of a Cadian Regiment). The Leadership test is always taken at Leadership 9.

• Target Sighted: Models from this Formation count as having a line of sight to any target any Enginseers from this Formation have line of sight to.

---

• This makes no sense... I think we should either remove the special rule entirely or go back to it being models with Vox-casters. Also, the enginseers will more often than not be with the Artillery anyways so the extra line of sight won't matter.

• The idea was that Enginseers would have a laser targeter or other apparatus or something, which makes perfect sense, since that is how modern artillery works. You´d expect that Guardsmen are already calling in artillery strikes without this formation, otherwise they wouldn´t know that there were enemies in places where they can´t see enemies. But due to the nature of guardsmen not being trained in correctly estimating distances artillery strikes called in by guardsmen are less accurate, as displayed in the rules. But an artillery strike guided by a laser or a bionic eye or whatever will be as if the artillery could actually see their targets.

I think it´s perfectly reasonable that the Enginseer is on a hill along with an infantry squad or the command squad and gives coordinates to the artillery hiding behind the hill. Sure the enginseer might be somewhat exposed, but he is more expendable than the artillery, especially if he has some veterans/guardsmen to hide behind.

• I can get behind that reasoning. You win this round.

Infantry Company

Formation:

• 1 Company Command Squad

• 2-4 Infantry Platoons

Restrictions:

None.

Special Rules:

Punishing Fusilade: Whenever the Company Commander from this Formation issues an order to a unit from this Formation they apply to all units from this Formation within 12" of the Company Commander (18" if this Formation is part of a Cadian Regiment).

Infantry Platoon

Formation:

• 1 Platoon Command Squad

• 2-5 Infantry Squads

• 0-5 Heavy Weapons Squads

• 0-3 Special Weapons Squads

• 0-1 Conscript Squad

• 0-1 Scout Sentinel Squadron or Armoured Sentinel Squadron

Restritions:

None.

Special Rules:

• Combined Squad: Any number of Infantry Squads in this Formation may be organized into a single combined unit during deployment, the unit is treated as a single unit for the whole game.

Psykana Division

Formation:

• 1 Primaris Psyker
• 1-3 Wyrdvane Brotherhoods
• 1-3 Commisars

Restrictions:

None.

Special Rules:

• Empyric Link

Sentinel Company

Formation:

• 2-6 units from the following list in any combination:

- Scout Sentinel Squadron
- Armoured Sentinel Squadron 

Restrictions:

Each unit must consist of 3 models.

Special Rules:

• Outflank
• Company Command: One model in this Formation must be upgraded to have the Character type at no additional cost. The Character may issue the 'Take Aim', 'Forwards for the Emperor' or 'Move! Move! Move!' order to all units from this Formation within 12" of the character. The Leadership test is taken at Leadership 9.
• Dedicated Hunters: At the start of your first turn, pick a unit in the enemy army. All models in this Formation have the Preferred Enemy (picked unit) special rule.

Storm Trooper Company

Formation:

• 1 Storm Trooper Command Squad

• 3 Storm Trooper Squad

Restritions:

None.

Special Rules:

Objective Secured: Infantry models from an Assault Company have the Objective Secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy unit is within range of the Objective Marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule.

Veteran Company

Formation:

• 1 Company Command Squad

• 3 Veteran Squads

• 0-1 Hellhound Squadron

Restritions:

None.

Special Rules:

Objective Secured: Infantry models from an Assault Company have the Objective Secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy unit is within range of the Objective Marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule.

• I don´t have anything to add on the Formations. It´s supposed to be Decurion type Formations, if that wasn´t clear. I have a few things which I want changed to go along the implementation of these new Detachments Formations.

I want to move all the different las gun options into the detachments, each type of regiment has their own lasgun and they don´t use other lasguns (hellguns for storm troopers being the exception).

I want to remove the special vehicle orders, I don´t think they add anything.

I want to remove the new rules for the tank commander, they don´t really add anything meaningful IMO.

• I agree with all of the above. - TheRavenousEye

• I think most of this is a good idea, and I'm a fan of the formations part of this change, but is it really a good idea to throw ~14 different detachments at new players all at once, especially since most of them seem to be identical outside of special rules and minor changes to the main force org? It might be better to reduce the detachments to different types of regiments (Infantry, Armored, Mechanized, ect.), and have famous regiments be sort of "chapter tactic" equivalents for specific detachments: For example, you have the Drop Trooper Regiment detachment, and then you can choose to replace the generic rules for the formation with the Elysian rules or the Harakoni rules. This would also have the benefit of giving people access to more generic rules for their own homebrew regiments.

• Wouldn´t that mean you would have to field 3 regiments just to get a few Leman Russes, a couple of Basilisks and a little infantry? Fluff wise I think it makes more sense to call that a single small mixed _____ Regiment rather than calling it an ultra small- Infantry, Armoured and Artillery Company. It also doesn´t make sense to have 3 regimental commanders in such an army, it´s overkill IMO.

Generic Detachments alone are also not enough to make a fanmade regiment feel like it´s own thing, there are people who believe that successor chapters aren´t represented well enough by their parent chapter´s tactics so something like the Hua Yuan Exterminators can´t be represented very well unless they have specific rules for them. You might as well play another regiment as you could play generic Infantry, Armoured... Regiments.

I know that the number of detachments can easily be cut in half and I´ll probably do that at some point. Angry Pirate (talk) 06:54, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

• The way that the regiment detachments look to me right now, it seems like they're made up of force Org charts which allow you to take the above formations in any combination. You'd probably have the core choices based upon what the regiment is, and with the related rules / tactics attached to that regiment designed to support the predominant unit type; any units that don't belong to the core choice could be taken as Auxiliary choices under the force org. It should also be pointed out that this is actually how regiments work in the Imperial Guard; in the 6th ed Guard Codex, it's pretty explicitly stated that the vast majority of regiments are NOT combined arms (Check pg.~20 in the 6th ed Guard Codex, under Regimental Organization), and specialist or armored regiments are regularly split and attached to infantry ones to support them in the field (Which isn't to say that these regiments aren't also deployed wholesale from time to time, but that's a different matter entirely). Auxiliary choices could easily be used to represent additional forces attached to the primary regiment's force.

However, I do agree with your point about generic regiments after thinking about it. Generic rules are sort of a dishonest way to represent more unique fanmade regiments, and the ones that aren't so unique can probably be represented by taking the rules for another regiment.

• If I moved all Companies into the Core section you could effectively make whatever Regiment you wanted? Would that be ok or do you still think the different worlds should be represented as Chapter Tactics instead of as Formations?

• Moving every company into core is overkill. Making the regiment's core choice be it's associated formation and also it's unlocking choice for Auxiliaries works fine. I think the Chapter Tactics are also still a good idea, because at it's core it's just making it much easier to understand the way the current system works. All of the regimental detachments are literally identical except for two of them, so by making famous regiments into chapter tactics and making the current detachments into regiment types, we go from 27 almost identical detachments to 6 detachments which all represent a distinct style of play.
• I don´t see why you would need more than 1 Regiment? Could you make an example of how you think an Infantry Regiment should look? The only reason I can see for making more than a single Regiment Detachment is if you wanted to give them additional rules, I`m just not quite sure if there is room for that balance wise. Or perhaps you wish to make further limitations on what you can bring in each Regiment, if that is the case then I think that is a bad idea since I don´t really think mono unit armies are fun. Angry Pirate (talk) 04:33, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

• What he means is just making the detachment and battlegroup rules into generic chapter tactics, and then having a generic Regiment detachment which would be moulded by the chapter tactics (or regiment tactics) to become the different Regiment Detachments already in use. I don't think there is any need to give the Decurion IG detachments any additional rules. Every Company formation currently has its own rules which I think is enough. There is still a reason for using the regiment detachments, and there is still a reason for going battlegroup (aka, combined arms) but it will just look alot prettier and less like a copy-paste massacre. I'll probably make the change at some point in the original so you can see it for yourself - TheRavenousEye

• Yeah, if nothing else is done, I'd ultimately want what TheRavenousEye said. I was throwing around the "regiment-type detachment" idea because I thought it would be an interesting and lore accurate way to represent the guard. To answer your earlier question, I provided an example of what I thought something along the lines of what I was talking about might look like - I'm kind of short on time so the rules I made were sort of quickly put together, with the general idea that they should have a defensive focus (It is footslogging infantry, after all). HOWEVER, I'm fine with only have a single regiment / battle group detachment if you decide that this isn't necessary / messes with the balance too much, as the real reason I started conversation in the first place is because we blatantly do not need the number of detachments we have right now.

"Shield" Infantry Regiment

Restrictions:

This Detachment must include 1 Command, and 1+ Core. For every Core choice, you may pick up to 2 Auxiliaries

Command Benefits:

• Regimental Commander: If you include a Company Commander as a Regimental Command choice then no other Imperial Guard Character may be your Warlord and that Company Commander may issue up to three Orders each turn.

• Famous Regiments: The player may chose to exchange the following rules for any regimental doctrine available to infantry regiments.

• Hold the Line!: When an infantry unit makes a morale test while there are another 10 non-routing guardsmen in 12" of the unit, receive +1 Ld for the test.

• Protect it at all costs!: All infantry units from a core choice receive objective secured.

Command

• 1 Company Command Squad
• 0-1 Lord Commissar

Core:

Infantry Company

Auxiliary:

Aerial Company

Artillery Company

Infantry Platoon

Sentinel Company

Storm Trooper Company

Ogryn Auxiliary

• 1 Ogryn Squad or Bullgryn Squad

Ratling Auxiliary

• 1 Ratling Squad

Psykana Division

• Beyond adding additional special rules for taking at least one Infantry Company I don´t see how this is different from just having a single Regiment type. I´m not sure, but I don´t think Guard need more than what they get with the Regimental Commander, Companies and renowned tactics.

Weapons

Shotguns

• Why does a shotgun have an ap value, whilst a concrete and steel cutting laser beam has ap-? An ap of 6 is basically no ap, yes, but lore wise is bugs me. -Un'tan

Stormshard Mortars

• These definitely do not need a buff and I am fairly sure they deserve their nerf since almost everyone seem to agree that they are one of the best anti-infantry units in the game. Angry Pirate (talk) 09:30, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
• Minimum range of 18 for indirect fire perhaps? Means it's still Quite Good, but can be neutered by prudent use of cover. PSC Wintergreen (talk) 09:10, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
• While it might make sense for mortars to have a minimum range I'm not quite sure how to fit it in with mortar heavy weapons teams. Even after halving their cost I'm not sure whether or not they're even worth it.

Giving the stormshard a minimum range without giving regular mortars would be a possibility, but I don't think it makes any sense. I think the price increase is the right nerf, unless I find out that the base mortar is OP at 0 pts. - Pirate

Hydra Autocannon

• It was already made cheaper and giving it ignores jink would make it extremely powerful against a number of units and particularily DE, given the fact that the artillery company can already be given ignores cover I think this would be a bad idea. Angry Pirate (talk) 09:30, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
• Hydras absolutely should not get ignores cover as standard, but they're still not worth it unless in a flyer rich or Fast Skimmer environment, so that taking them is either as part of a vehicle tax, or a tailoring action. Having seen how the inverse works so well with the Mortis Contemptor in standard play, i'd suggest they following:
• Hydras are long barrel autocannons with skyfire.

If the "hydra bearing model" has not moved in the previous movement phase, it may lose skyfire but is reduced to BS 2 for all weapons.

Since they're always twin linked, this shakes out to the damage output of two autocannon HWT teams (40 pts) with skyfire (15 pts ea for flakk) without the benefit of orders. PSC Wintergreen (talk) 09:07, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

• The Hydra is described in the current fluff as more or less purely a flakk tank, with its ability to engage ground targets being meh at best. While it doesn't make much sense when compared with similar historical weapons the Hydra is seemingly not the anti-air/tank weapon you want it to be but rather it is purely an anti-air weapon.

It might also be best that taking AA is a choice where you are giving up ground fire power. Flyers aren't very durable when shot at by weapons as powerful as a quad-gun at 50 pts + the crewing model(s). So if every army can take AA without losing out on any ground firepower then the flyer tag becomes less powerful. I want tags like flyer and AV 14 to be meaningful. - Pirate

Mortars

• Why should they be AP 4? Angry Pirate (talk) 09:19, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Lasguns

• As much of a pain it is to keep track of what guns which models have is for your opponent (me), it´ll be to supply the right guns to the right squads. I suggest it be tied to formations. So there should be a Cadian formation, a Death Korps of Krieg formation and so on. Angry Pirate (talk) 12:43, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

More variants of Lasguns is cool, but I think it has to be specific roles, and not specific versions. So, for example, Lasgun, Laslock variant (30"), Lasrifle variant (18" Assault 2), Mastercrafted and so one, and mainly only for veteran units, so you can build around it without having to do vector math. Same with the Shotguns below; a bit too much without much difference - Dane.

Lascannons

• I decided to remove the changes to lascannons (and several other weapons) to make it easier to start playing the angry codices. I didn't feel like the changes I made achieved my goals and the changes made plasma weapons too niche. Angry Pirate (talk) 09:03, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Shotguns

• I don´t see why they should have more AP than las weaponry.

They also shouldn´t be assault 3, there is a reason why shotguns are used by police forces but not armies. They just aren´t that great in a military setting.

CSM get a free CCW on the side, whether you intrepret that as them actually having 2 CCWs and a shotgun or them in some shape or way using the shotgun in combat is up to you.

Veterans having the option to take any number of the amunition types is unnecessary. I´m not sure if they should get a CCW on top but all the ammunition types should definitely be a package deal, if you don´t want them to have CCWs then make the shotgun with all the ammunition types a package deal. Also remove solid shells, that´s what the normal ammunition of shotguns are. Angry Pirate (talk) 12:27, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

• Solid Shells are single pieces of metal while shells are the equivalent to our standard shotgun shells. The correct term in english for solid shell is Shotgun Slug, while the correct term for Shotgun shells are, well, shells.

In regards to whether they should be nerfed, it seems like bad reasoning to say that they SHOULD be worse than the existing lasguns. It should be a tradeoff of extra close-range power while giving up ranged firepower. - TheRavenousEye

• Fine we can keep both, but I think they should be renamed to buckshot or shotshells. I can´t stop thinking of seashells.

Not whether or not they should be nerfed, whether or not they should be buffed. It isn´t bad reasoning, shotguns aren´t that deadly compared to modern firearms and they´re shit compared to futuristic firearms. Which is why I think they can have the additional options as a package deal, this way I don´t have to look at "shells" or giving them a CCW shotgun package deal. If Shotguns really were that deadly then they would be standard issue for armies, there is a reason why they´re not. Angry Pirate (talk) 21:28, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Quad Launcher

Forgeworld itself never updated the quad launcher in line of "barrage weapons no longer cause pinning" updated in 6->7th ed So if the Shellshock rule is to be present, give it "causes pinning with -1 leadership" PSC Wintergreen (talk) 09:24, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

• I already gave it pinning, I'm not sure what you are saying?
• I evdiently missed that PSC Wintergreen (talk) 09:12, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Elites

Ogryns

• After reading the entry about Ogryns here at 1d4chan, I had epiphany. The entry states that it is a shame that Ogryns do not have access to Power weapons. I was wondering if this idea is any good, crunch-wise? It seems like a great idea to give Ogryns & Bullgryns Power weapons since they are going to Close Combat. Also, Power Fists or Eviscerators will help them deal with enemy vehicles & or other TEQs. I am not saying that all Ogryns & Bullgryns should have access to Power weapons. The power weapons could be limited to 1 in 5 Ogryns or Bullgryns & the Bonehead or just the Bonehead.

• TL;DR: Good idea, but there are no models for it so it won´t happen.

Power weapons are supposed to be something of a specialty, 1/5 would however be perfectly reasonable.

The problem is that there are no models for Ogryns with power weapons, power fists or eviscerators. It´s not that your arguements aren´t good, I just don´t think adding a bunch of theoretically cool options to a unit is a good idea when there is no way of representing it on the board.

I have already regretted introducing different lasgun options, our IG player has become so hooked on them that I don´t want to take them away.

A big part of the Angry Initative is letting people play with the toys they have and not punishing them for taking they like and own. The thing is you or anyone else doesn´t have any toys for Ogryns with these weapon options, I don´t want to force people into proxying or scratch building models just because they think it would be cool to have Ogryns with power weapons. Angry Pirate (talk) 21:57, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

• The Power Fists are not a modeling problem. Their WHFB counterpart, the Ogre Kingdom have Iron Fists http://m.ebay.com/itm/361438447878?_mwBanner=1.

Also, will it make Ogryns OP if they are given Heavy Chainblades (+2S, & AP4)?

• It´s still a modelling problem, you would have to proxy in all your official games if you were to convert them to OK Iron Fists, then comes the problem of OK going out of production in the forseeable future. TK already got squatted, who´s next?

I haven´t tested it and I don´t think it should be added as there isn´t any model for, sorry if I´m being rude here but adding a bunch of options which AM players can convert their models into just isn´t where I think the codex should go. I´m pretty sure the Angry Ogryns and Angry Bullgryns are UP, but neither have been tested. Angry Pirate (talk) 06:25, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

No problem.

Units

HQ

Gaunt

• I have not read the books. Was every single company command squad wiped out? Even if it was, you might want to play them after they settle on a planet and establish a proper regimental command, therefore I feel like Gaunt should be an option rather than a must. 09:19, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Priests

• War Hymns are broken, not in IG, but in combination with a 2+ Sv or 3+ invul save. Both of which the Inquisition have. I feel like it would be weird to have one priest for the IG and another for the ones with access to better saves. Angry Pirate (talk) 09:19, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
• Easy answer to that is amending the rule to "If a priest is in a unit consisting entirely of models of the AM Faction..."
• The Inquisition has priests of their own. Having different rules for units with the same name is not a good idea.
• Perhaps, then the solution becomes change the "Ministorum" priest to "Regimental Priest" (Since that's what they are).
• But why do they need 3 different options?

The Emperor Protects is now a permanent special rule

The Righteousness of the Emperor is already represented through the Zealot special rule.

As far as Smash goes... Should a fucking priest really be able to carve open artificer armour? Angry Pirate (talk) 20:18, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

• I always considered the Smash a call back to when IG Priests could take Eviscerators, which shakes out to roughly the same result. Righteousness of the Emperor is reroll *wounds*, unless you changed zealot? That said, 35 points for Fearless/Zealot with a 4+ invul and 6+ for the unit is admittedly Good Enough. Codex priests are quite clearly under costedPSC Wintergreen (talk) 09:20, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
• What I meant by "The Righteousness of the Emperor' is already represented through the Zealot special rule." is that he already gives his unit a buff to their close combat attacks through Zealot, I have not changed rules from the main rulebook except for a select few weapons.

The main problem with the slightly OP Priests is that they outcompeteted Commissars, which is pretty sad since Commissars are way more iconic than priests. Although it might be argueable that fearless can be a downside because of the inability to grab the 2+ ADL cover save. But especially in this codex where you would rather order your entire company to shoot once more rather than just issue single orders to your units to either get back up or shoot once more, I think the nerf to Priests is warranted. Angry Pirate (talk) 14:51, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Elites

Special Weapons Squad

• Why should snipers grant +1 BS? The scope of snipers is already represented by the precision shots special rule. I do not think it should be assumed that snipers have been trained harder or better than plasma gunners or meltagunners. Angry Pirate (talk) 09:19, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Storm Trooper Squad

• I removed the special operations special rule, is it worth keeping?

• Special Operations: A unit with this rule must choose one of three missions before deployment:

- Reconnaissance: The unit gains the Scouts and Move Through Cover special rules

- Airborne Assault: The unit may re-roll the scatter dice when they deep strike

- Behind Enemy Lines: The unit gains the Infiltrate special rule and their weapon gain Pinning the first time the squad fires.

Angry Pirate (talk) 04:59, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Fast Attack

Chimera Command Tank

• Is this an official unit? I do not see a reason for it to exist since officers can already issue orders from a chimera.

Sentinels

• I removed Smash and restored their Strength, it seemed a little ridiculous they would inflict Strength 3 hits. Angry Pirate (talk) 05:20, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Heavy Support

Ordnance Battery

• Why would you ever take a colossus over a Basilisk?

	Range	S	AP	Type
Earthshaker Cannon	36"-240"	9	3	Ordnance 1, Barrage, Large Blast
Colossus Siege Mortar	24"-240"	6	3	Ordnance 1, Barrage, Large Blast, Ignores Cover

This is the profile available in the 5th edition codex, am I missing something here?

Angry Pirate (talk) 08:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

• The special rule for the Colossus Siege Mortar specifies that no cover saves can be taken against it, which is what would separate it from the Earthshaker. The Siege can also fire at things closer than 36" away from it, but not closer than 24". It isn't Much of a difference but there are situations the Siege will do better. -Un'tan

• I forgot the Ignores Cover, but I don´t think it´s relevant most of the time since they are both Barrage weapons. Angry Pirate (talk) 11:21, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

• I do kinda agree. It all reminds me of the power of the C'tan discussion. But nonetheless. -Un'tan

• I added Ignores Cover to the Colossus Siege Mortar since I had forgotten it. I don´t really mind it´s profile, I just don´t think it deserves to be more expensive than the Earthshaker which is meh against monstrous creatures vs the Siege Mortar which is trash against MCs, the Earthshaker is pretty good against vehicles, comparatively the Siege Mortar is absolute trash. The only places it shines is in ranges 24"-36" and targeting targets within area terrain and if your template scatters on to the other side of a wall so the opponent actually gets a cover save against the Earthshaker. The Siege Mortar is a lot less diverse, but costs a lot more for its boost against troops in ruins and forests, something which you might as well shoot with your guardsmen anyway. I don´t think we are disagreeing right now are we Un´tan? I just think the Siege Mortar needs a point reduction of 10-25 pts. Angry Pirate (talk) 23:55, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oh I am not disagreeing. The Siege shouldn't be very expensive at all, and it is less effective than the Earthshaker in most cases.

Lords of War

Lord Commander

• Price? I dunno
• WS 6, BS 7, T 4, I 5, Ld 10.
• Stubborn, Orders (three orders).
• Has some sort of Ancestral Armor; 3+ gives Relentless + Refractor Field.
• Ancenstral Heirlooms: All weapons, except Grenades, gain Mastercrafted.
• Small Arms Master: This model shoots 3 additional shots with Lasguns, Laspistols, Hotshot Lasguns and Hotshot Laspistols, Shotguns, Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Storm Bolters and Sniper Rifles.
• Family Guard: The Lord Commander must replace a Company Commander in a Company Command Squad. This CCS gain +1 BS, +1 Ld and Carapace Armor automatically.

- Dane.

• I think this concept is pretty cool. Here's my take on it:

Lord General

		WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv	Unit Type	Composition
Lord General	330 pts	7	6	3	3	4	5	4	10	3+	Infantry (C)	1 Lord General
Terrax Guard		4	4	3	3	1	3	2	9	4+	Infantry	4 Terrax Guards

Wargear:

Lord General

• Ancestral Armour

Ancestral Armour Confers a 3+ armour save.

• Hot-shot Las Pistol
• Power Sword
• Frag Grenades
• Krak Grenades
• Duelist Honours (already included in profile)
• Macharian Cross
• The Winged Skull
• Reductor Field

A Reductor Field grants the wearer a 4+ Invulnerable Save.

• Signum

Terrax Guards

• Hot-shot Lasgun
• Carapace Armour
• Krak Grenades
• Frag Grenades
• Targeters
• Refractor Fields

Special Rules:

• Independent Character
• Stubborn
• Voice of the High Lords: A model with this special rule may issue an order to all models within 18" once per turn. These orders do not have to be identical.
• High-Priority Clearance: A model with this special rule may choose to perform three of the following actions once per turn before reserve rolls:

- Artillery Bombardment: See Master of Ordnance.

- Navy Orders: See Officer of the Fleet.

- Reinforcement: Counts as performing two actions. Instantly place either an Infantry squad or Tempestus Scions squad in Ongoing Reserve. They may take a single weapon from the Special weapons list but may otherwise not take any upgrades.

- TheRavenousEye

StormBlade

• This is a problem child. The plasma blast gun (72" s8 ap2 7"blast x2/ 96" s10ap2 10" blast x1) is not worthwhile on titans, and either goes all the way into overpowered vs marines to underpowered vs everything else at 455 pts. If the big shot had armour bane with Gets Hot and the small one was s7 instead that might work?
• S8 AP 2 is good against a number of things such as Crisis Suits, Tyranid Warriors, Obliterators, Terminators.

I do see the problem, but I also think the problem might be more widespread than just the Stormblade. Most of the Baneblade variants have massive or larger blasts making them best against large formations of non-mechanised Marines (which do not exist except in the wet dreams of IG commanders and Baneblade crews) and vehicle parking lots. Perhabs making all of the baneblade variant weapons into Apocalyptic Mega Blasts with multiple shots would be best? That way the amount of damage it does to the intended target can be increased signifigantly without making it OP in the unicorn situation where you face a parking lot a massed non-mechanised marine army. Angry Pirate (talk) 22:51, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

• While as a combined air and treadhead I'd love to feel multi-shot BaneX, That is simply too far the other way. The two ignores cover variants would be beyond broken, multishot tremor cannons don't function, and the baneblade itself would become, basically, two baneblades.

As a compromise i'd suggest the following;

For the Quake cannon and Tremor cannon, gain Armour Bane & Shred on the central hole

For the Magma cannon gain the Melta & Blind rule

The Hellhammer and Stormsword are good enough as is, and possibly too good

For the Baneblade and Stormblade 2nd profile, gain D on the central hole

So now they have the threat against a single unit with fluff appropriate benefits, and the side benefit of harming everything else with fancy side effects. PSC Wintergreen (talk) 10:54, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

• What I meant was not to keep the current profiles and then multiply them, as in the Baneblade cannon becoming:

	Range	S	AP	Type
Baneblade cannon option #1	72"	D/8/6	2/3/4	Primary Weapon 1, Apocalyptic Mega-blast
Baneblade cannon option #2	72"	9	2	Primary Weapon 4, Blast

Both of which are signifigantly more powerful against single targets like a land raider or a super-heavy, without becoming more powerful against large formations of elite infantry.

The first option is IMO the best option, but I would have to scale the weapons which currently only use massive or large blasts.

I'm opposed to the central hole rule because it is IMO more complicated than it needs to be. I would like to limit the amount of characters as much as possible, to make a simpler codex, not to save ink. Although I do fear the day when I'm going to have to print out 2000 pages.

I'm pretty sure none of the current IG superheavies are OP. The Stormlord Enginseer gimmick might not be defeatable in the regular sense of just killing it, but on the other hand it's a thousand points which are more or less immobile and can only sit on a single objective.

The Stormsword does not seem at all OP to me. At 530 pts you could get 3 predators with 2 lascannon sponons and an additional twin-linked lascannon and a fourth predator with a twin-linked lascannon but no sponsons. That's 1 BS 3 S D AP 2 large blast averaging maybe 1 vehicle/MC hit depending on how muchyour opponent clumps up, or 7,5 S 9 AP 2 hits, no matter how your opponent deploys. These also have a chance of destroying up to four models in one turn while the volcano cannon is usually limited to attempting to destroy 1 or maybe 2. Angry Pirate (talk) 20:18, 23 September 2016 (UTC)