Talk:Codex - Squats

Feel free to take your own cracks at it

Crazy Cryptek (talk) 08:53, 7 May 2016 (UTC) I'm glad to see interest in this project and I just wanted to say that if you want to make edits, please do. Don't let my lazy, bony ass hold you back.

Theme and General Approach

• --Tag8833 (talk) 15:45, 14 August 2015 (UTC) You guys have done an amazing Job so far. A lot of work has gone into this thing. I want to contribute, but take cues and defer to your preferences when it comes to these things. One question that I feel like is unresolved based on reading your comments so far is the state of the squats in the "present" of 40K. I see it breaking down based on how thoroughly the Squat Race was damaged by Hive Fleet Kraken. It breaks down in one of two ways.
  • A) Kraken annihilated the squat Homeworlds, and nearly extincted them. This lends itself to fluff and rules with a much darker theme.
    • What did the squats do to survive? Flee into the Warp like the Dark Eldar? Went to ground deep inside their worlds and resorted to Cannibalism? Fled the oncoming doom, and now carry a stain of cowardice?
    • What are they willing to do to Rebuild? Harvest humans for genetic material and slaves? Seek after darker powers to protect the survivors? Subjugate themselves to a greater power? Nothing, and just slide slowly into the inevitable abyss?
    • What did this costs? Broken of Mind and spirit? Ruled by vengeance after being forsaken in their time of need? Overcome by zealotry, and single minded in their goal to rebuild? No longer able to form attachments and feel settled, reduced to Vagabonds?
  • B) Kraken destroyed many worlds, but the squads were dispersed enough to survive, or were rescued in some fashion. This could be lighter in tone.
    • Did someone save them? The Tau would be the best candidate for this, but it could also be Eldar, Dark Eldar, or Chaos. What is their attitude and role to their savior?
    • How much damage was taken? Are their stable and powerful worlds remaining? Were squats just so dispersed throughout the Imperium that the survivors can exist amidst the Imperials?
    • How did this alter their History? Did new heroes, and epics arise during the battle that eclipse those of the past? Is it too painful to remember?
    • How much hope remains for the future? Do they want to Rebuild? Do they want to secure a stronghold? Are they willing to surrender parts of their identity and merge more into the Imperium?
  • My 1st choice would be a darker tone. They fled underground, but realizing that it was hopeless, eventually a small group tapped into a Dark Eldar Webway Portal. Few in number though they were, they overcame a small Dark Eldar faction that initially enslaved them. To rebuild their numbers they started harvesting Orks, and studied their reproductive abilities. Having attained a limited mastery of it, and a more complete mastery of Ork Genetics, they used a plague to exterminate the Orks from a number of Ork worlds and claimed them as their own, Re-establishing, and repopulating the squat race. But at the same time, their Genetic engineering had consequences resulting in Squats that were changed, and the occasional terrifying aberration.

Overall Balance

• --Tag8833 (talk) 15:45, 14 August 2015 (UTC) I'd like to take a shot at Tweaking points costs across the board, and minor stat changes on one or two items. I'm a pretty competitive 40K player, and think I can make some minor tweaks that would improve the internal and external balance significantly. I can't make it perfect, but I think I can improve it. I can tell I'm not as much of an expert on Squat history as you guys, and I don't want to step on any toes, so if you feel like reversing my changes it won't upset me. In addition I'll make a BattleScribe Data file for squats once I've done my Tweaks.

Squat Exo Armour

If anyone else has any ideas for Squat Exo Armour please feel free to say. The original rule for them was a 4+ save on 2D6. Which could still work, but unfortunately that makes them extremely vulnerable to most weapons. So I went with Terminator Armour 2+/5++ and used S&P instead of Relentless --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 16:31, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

For reference, an Inquisitor can take Terminator armour (in GK and =][=) for 40pts. He gets a Thunder Hammer, and loses all his grenades. I think 30pts is a bit under-costed. Elric Greywolf (talk) 21:45, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

• Crazy Cryptek (talk) 21:47, 29 May 2014 (UTC) Chaos termies only come in at 30 points or so and are barely considered competitive. That being said, I can see arguments for 30 points being too cheap on multiwound models.
• Elric Greywolf (talk) 23:04, 29 May 2014 (UTC)Yeah. The Inquisitor is an HQ choice, and has 3W. GKT are 40ppm, and I think SMT are similar. Upgrading your S5 T6 model to have a 2+/5++ is incredibly valuable, and may be worth more than 30. I'd say 40 at least.
• --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 06:02, 30 May 2014 (UTC) Quite right - Multi-wounds, T5 with 2+/5++ is extremely resilient. Points upped to 40. Also, for the sake of saving some balance, Exo armour was never made available to Ancestor Lords who would just go nuts with it. Though will need to look again at Iridium Armour which ups them to T7 with 3+

Iridium armor and a Stonekin banner makes the Ancestor Lord 1 good invuln and a thunder hammer away from being able to eat Chapter Master Smashfucker for breakfast. I'm by no means against creating a CC monster, but that gear should be appropriately priced, possibly with different prices for different HQs.--Boss Ballkrusha (talk) 17:40, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

• Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 17:52, 30 May 2014 (UTC) considering a stop-gap of disallowing Ancestor Lords access to the Armoury at all and giving them a specific set of equipment appropriate to them. It's not just the fact that they can be so powerful individually, they are also psykers and will inevitably be able to buff themselves up that way. Was considering access to Biomancy, Divination and Pyromancy, which contain some of the most extensive buffs. My feeling is that he's supposed to be more like the Eldar Avatar, rather than an extremely powerful commander.

New units

Crazy Cryptek (talk) 18:25, 14 May 2014 (UTC) It's no secret that the game has changed tremendously since the Squats were last part of the game. A lot of unit niches exist now that didn't before or niches that existed then no longer exist now. And of course, there's special characters we'd need to make. I'd also think that we should try to update their lore to fit with the new developments in the meta-plot.

• Exactly! Am just putting in the framework for everything I can drag out of old rules that I've got lying around. I can already see things I'd want to change about Ancestor Lords, perhaps making them Monstrous Creatures? (considering the statline). There are also a lot of units that can be borrowed from elsewhere that seem to have a connection - Like the Hades Assault Drills, Ion-Cannons (Demi-Urg?), Lascutters, Thunder Hammers and potentially Psychic Rune-Weapons, can also play up the Demi-Urg angle and draw from sources there --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 18:36, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 18:43, 14 May 2014 (UTC) Right, I think that works. I also think the Squats should have some unique weapons tech (as in guns) of their own to feel less like an Imperial army and more like their own thing. Also, with Lords of War; I think we should also peruse their weapons in Epic to see what can be brought in for Escalation and Apocalypse.
  • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 18:48, 14 May 2014 (UTC), I should have access to my entire 2nd ed & battlefleet gothic collection by tomorrow, will see what's I can find in there and perhaps start introducing newer stuff
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 19:00, 14 May 2014 (UTC) What do you have in mind for Special characters? An army's character should be able to be quickly determined by it's special characters. Tyranid SCs for example, are akin to legendary monsters and beasts and monster movie archetypes, while the Ork SCs currently in the codex all exemplify a certain kind of Ork and have parts the Ork codexes' character distilled into single characters.
  • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 19:06, 14 May 2014 (UTC) I'm afraid I don't have any idea for special characters at the moment, by all means lets introduce some new ideas. Rather right now I'm hunting through varying sources (xenology/40k RPG) for hints about the technology that they use.
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 19:21, 14 May 2014 (UTC) Well obviously we need support SCs and Beatstick SCs, as well as SCs who unlock some things as troops. Some SCs will also help shore up some traditional weaknesses, like how Farsight offers a surprisingly nasty melee beatstick for his other wise ranged army. And perhaps some sort of strategic genius a la Creed or the Duke.
  • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 07:34, 16 May 2014 (UTC) I have a couple of names from the 2nd Edition Codex Imperialis: Lord Thrund - who was not particularly bothered by an Ork invasion of his homeworld and decided to give the greenskins a head-start before mustering against them. and Dorak Ironhead who was Thrund's general who had the best and loudest voice, and was the only one to beat Thrund in a drinking contest.
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 09:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC) We can also lift names from famous Dorf Fortress badasses like Captain Ironblood and Morul; the most Interesting Dwarf in the World.
  • --Gufu (talk) 21:59, 21 May 2014 (UTC) Hey folks, MC automatically gives Fear and MtC as per the BRB. Doesn't make too much sense for the stocky little guy to be able to ignore terrain or scare folks, even if his suit is all fancy. Just saying.
    • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 07:13, 22 May 2014 (UTC) You're probably right. I'd never seen a model for an ancestor lord, and the codex imperialis just describes him as an "awesome figure of massive girth & strength" his profile just screamed to me that he was a bigger creature and I imagined it to have the appearance of a Dwarven Avatar from Warcraft III

--Tw6464 (talk) 15:46, 27 October 2016 (UTC)I was wondering if perhaps anyone had any interest in more Chaos units for this codex. I was thinking like Bull-Centaurs, Daemon Engines, Daemonsmiths. I'm fairly new to Homebrewing rules so if anyone had any suggestions for stats, I'd appreciate it.

• --Tw6464 (talk) 15:46, 27 October 2016 (UTC)Also if anyone has any kind of experience with writing good lore stuff, I'd appreciate help on that front as well

New Wargear

• --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 11:16, 21 May 2014 (UTC) Haven't forgotten about this, have been thinking of ways to move them away from using Imperial wargear, the 2nd edition had a common set of wargear for all races, so have been coming up with clever ways to differentiate "common" wargear from Imperial tech. For instance: Shot-weapons (replacing bolt weapons): Remove any AP value and add the Shred USR. Designed for fighting in enclosed spaces like mineshafts and starship corridors as to not penetrate hulls, but are brutally lethal at close range?
• --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 11:16, 21 May 2014 (UTC) I also want to introduce different types of armour, have been putting thought into Iridium Armour, something the Tau have been experimenting with. So while the Squats/Demiurg do not have the sophistication that the Tau Empire has, they have been working with the metal for much longer and so it is much more widespread.
• Crazy Cryptek (talk) 12:58, 21 May 2014 (UTC)Hmm...I think this is a good idea. I'm quite fond of lifting more forgotten parts of 40k lore into the limelight. I was also thinking that the Squats still had the expertise to easily manufacture Volkite weapons and made heavy usage of sonic weaponry; which would be very useful for a subterranean culture. I'm thinking on how to differentiate the Squats and Demiurg though, and how to rewrite the fluff to account for the Squats remaining a major power. I do have an idea that rather than be exterminated by Kraken, the Squats instead faced the hardest fight in their existence as Kraken threw a large portion of itself to feast on the abhumans just as Kraken devastated Imperial worlds before converging on Ichar IV and hunted Iyanden. However, the Squats were able to draw a line in the sand and made a large contribution to the breaking of Kraken into splinter fleets. But for this offense, the Squats have declared a racial grudge against all the hive fleets, and as they recover; they eagerly seek battle with the Tyranids to thwart the hive fleets. Despite Kraken's assaults on the Squats, they remain a powerful force in the galactic stage.
• --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 13:25, 21 May 2014 (UTC) Sonic weaponry was an avenue I'd never considered, that's a good one. I don't think Squats necessarily need differentiated from the Demiurg though, I imagine that they were officially intended to have been a progression/modernisation of one theme and there is little enough fluff for each of them that we could comfortably roll them into a single back story. Squat's don't necessarily need to be a major galactic power the same way that other races are, we can easily introduce them alongside other "minor" races that make up the rich fabric of 40k like the Stryxis, Viskeon, Barghessi, Enoulians, Hrud etc etc do. Your written back story fits perfectly though, my own view of them was to rather see them become a "broken" species trying to rebuild itself after being broken by the hive fleets. We've seen Imperial worlds / Craftworlds get destroyed, but never entire races.
• Crazy Cryptek (talk) 14:05, 21 May 2014 (UTC) The squats dwell mostly in the galactic core right? A radiation bathed region with aging suns and night skies like this http://www.outerspaceuniverse.org/media/night-sky-galactic-core.jpg there's plenty of worlds for them to hide in, especially if they have good terraforming sciences. Kraken has wounded the Squats, but they still have influence over the galaxy as they hope to rebuild their kingdoms and clanholds as the end times approach.
  • As for other weapons: I was also thinking of magnetic guns, originally meant to tear out ferrous metals from ores to get the easily accessed metal first, but turned out to be devastatingly powerful weapons.
  • If we're merging the squats and demiurg, they could also have ion-weapons, as it's noted that the Tau were taught how to make them by the Demiurg.
    • Well, HH novel about Alpha Legion playing against itself (forget the name, you know what I mean) kind of hints Demiurgs were around long before Squats even being a thing. And while Squats are about mining thing close and personally, Demiurgs prefer to use robots and entire automated mining stations, filled with mining robots the size of a house that also doubles as a killbots in case someone stupid enough decide to raid said station. So Demiurgs may look like a space dwarves, but they're probably some of the Old Ones artificial race, and should be despised by Squats as xeno scum like they despise every other xeno, and generally humans too Mezmerro (talk) 16:27, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
      • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 17:12, 21 May 2014 (UTC) So take the Demiurg off Battlebros? Should the Squats have any battlebrothers besides chapter tactics style things?
      • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 19:57, 21 May 2014 (UTC) Squats could still be one and the same thing as Demiurg, the Squats are a remnant of the Old Night and the Dark Age of Technology which happened long before the great crusade and the creation of the legions. I'm thinking we might end up doing two lists if we want to differentiate the two races/subraces/(different names of same race?). Though a Chapter Tactic style rule sounds really good. Could be a way to differentiate between Leagues or Guilds? That sounds like our best way of separating the two within our own fluff.
      • I agree with the League/Guild tactics and had some thoughts about the Squats after mulling over the Demiurg stuff. Perhaps to help round out the army the Squats can have a lot of automatons? Not as quasi-mystical as the Necrons, as grimdark and chained down as those of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and more raygun gothic then the (in my imagination) iPodish Men of Iron. Stout and powerful warriors who fight alongside their creators as proudly as any Squat without a hint of fear.
  • Gravitic weapons also seem fluffy, though they have more mastery over the science of grav weapons than the Imperium obviously.
  • Expanding on magnetic weapons, I also have a fancy for magnetically launched projectile guns, though notably that's currently a Tau thing.
    • Not actually - Tau have Railgun, but they have no Coilguns. Coilguns, throwing little armour-piercing needles Fallout2-style (so medium strength, low AP) would be pretty fun guns.
      • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 17:12, 21 May 2014 (UTC)Hmm...seems good. Can't use Gauss guns for fear of causing confusion with Necron Gauss weapons so coil guns make perfect sense. A lot of tech the Imperium considers priceless relics should be common-place among the Squats, and what's unreliable and dangerous for them is well mastered for the Squats. So like their plasma guns for example should probably follow the Tau or Eldar model (-1 strength for no gets hot) while they have a bigger variety of grav weapons. That being said, I'm a bit conflicted on how to make Grav and Mag weapons different.
      • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 19:20, 22 May 2014 (UTC) I think your coil guns have been done quite nicely. I found Mass Driver weapons in "Shield of Humanity" for Only War which were extremely rare, low strength, high penetration weapons available to the adeptus mechanicum. I think the balance is quite right here. Now to put them into the armoury...
• --Gufu (talk) 22:00, 21 May 2014 (UTC) Are Trikes a separate unit or are they considered Heavy Bikes?
  • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 07:07, 22 May 2014 (UTC) I'd expect either-or, depending on the weapons load-out you give them. I've just been kitbashing space marine bits with some dwarf models and don't actually have any bikes for them at all. The 2nd ed rules didn't make any distinction for trikes that I know of.

Rune Stones

• --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 18:38, 28 May 2014 (UTC) I saw what the original intention was there, I think this alternate view was a bit more simple but also more practical. By allowing models with Rune Stones to add additional Warp Charges to the Deny the Witch pool allows the entire army to benefit by granting more dice, while retaining the original rule of the unit itself getting the re-roll. Adamantium Will may find its way to other units in the future (particularly through "Hardy Souls"), so this one doesn't interfere with that at all.

Volkite Weapons

• --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 15:36, 29 May 2014 (UTC) While I agree that the Squats should have weaponry distinct from the Imperium, I think we might end up going overboard by giving them access to more and more weapons. We should probably also be thinking about roles that the weapons would fill rather than just adding things that fit fluffwise. Our Shot Weapons cover the low-strength, high-volume, poor-AP, short-range weapons, just as our Coil Guns are covering the Good-AP, longer-range category, and though while low strength still have a good chance of damaging virtually any form of infantry and low AV tanks. We've also got Ion weapons that can fill our plasma / multi-role equivalent and the fusion projector covers both the flamer and melta roles while the developments we can make with Vibro Weapons (eg: beam weapons? cumulative strength modifiers?) can fill any jobs that we ask of it. I'm just saying I can't envisage a purpose for Volkites given the amount of other weapons we've started putting in. I may be wrong though, but it's starting to seem a bit packed for choices.
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 16:33, 29 May 2014 (UTC)Hmm...right, so perhaps leave the Volkites on the backburner as we hammer out a role for the Vibro/Tremor weaponary? I was thinking that Vibro weaponry could be mostly a debuff weapon class. Essentially things like creating difficult terrain to slow down a charge and generally has strike down or concussive to represent how massively disorientating it is as it overloads your ear-drums and threatens to burst your eyeballs. Essentially neutering weapons. Vibro/Tremor weaponry however, is tremendously effective against structures for obvious reasons, and so hard-counters turtle hammer builds. By the way, I was thinking the squats could also have some boring/tunneling machines and perhaps a bit of emphasis on their own fortifications?

Flyers

Also, what are we going to do for fliers? While I think the Squats should have them as any proper army should have air power in some form, even if just for moving your troops around, they should probably focus a bit more on air denial than air superiority. Finally, would it be wise to create a distinct fluff page like the Covenant and Knights Inductor Codexes?

• Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 06:22, 30 May 2014 (UTC) Squats were supposedly masters of Grav technology too, I have seen Squat Land Speeders which corroborates that. But I've also been recommended Steve Parker's "Gunheads" by my local GW manager to help draw inspiration, which apparently explores a lost Squat city and their technology. We could maybe play up the grav angle and have slower moving but more manoeuvre-able, perhaps being scarce with weaponry but instead doubling up as artillery mounting and carrying one big gun?
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 07:00, 30 May 2014 (UTC)Oooh there's a good idea. For grav weapons, I think we should try to aim more for funkiness and less for the Space Marines' elite mulcher, unless you'd feel that it would be the best replacement for plasma weaponry for MC killing. I'm envisioning big and heavy fliers like the A10 Warthog and AC-130 Spectre, not the fastest or prettiest things in the sky, but they take a beating and hit like a ton of bricks.
  • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 06:49, 30 May 2014 (UTC) My own imaginings were aircraft appearing similar to the hovercraft from the Matrix series, with massive anti-grav plates on it. Unfortunately I doubt I'll be making my own model for something like that, since I'd rather be scratch-building my own Warlord Titans! So I'd just be interested from a rules perspective on this one.
    • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 06:49, 30 May 2014 (UTC) As for using grav weaponry if we chose to include it, the "original" rules for graviton weapons blanketed areas and pinned units to the ground, rather than simply crushing them under their own weight. We could make a move in that direction and combo it with vibro weapons. Black Holes for instance shear trapped objects apart using waves of gravity differential. I imagine that at the highest levels grav weaponry could do similar things, though now were moving into Necron mastery, which is probably a bit above the Squats... need to re-read Fall of Orpheus.
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 07:00, 30 May 2014 (UTC)Well you could always proxy some Squatty looking models from other games if you wanted to represent Squat units they never made official models for. Rules wise, I'm essentially seeing more a role on ground support than being war-winners in of themselves like the more flier reliant armies. For anti-air, they'd mostly rely on ground based weapons rather than attempt to engage in dog-fighting unless the need arises. And given their recent war against Hive Fleet Kraken; I'd think they'd probably work on ways to kill FMCs. And yes, I think the old Graviton weapon rules are sufficiently funky enough to have a unique role.
  • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 07:31, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
    

    Epic Units
    Can use this for inspiration, some old EPIC units, inluding two flyers. A Gyrocopter which is pretty cool, and the Overlord airship. Also would be awesome to make rules for that cannon and the super-heavy colossus, though I think the Colossus was done by siegeworld quite effectively. Can find that and use it.
    • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 07:38, 30 May 2014 (UTC) looking at the simplicity of the gyrocopter, I could maybe attempt to convert one from a dwarf gyrocopter and some spare parts from a Nephilim fighter, just need to find something for the turbines. I took twin-linked off of the rotary shot cannon because I should have an unused avenger bolter that can be used for the nose weapon on the gyrocopter.
    • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 07:42, 30 May 2014 (UTC) Most of the epic units thankfully look very simple to scratch build or proxy. I mean...the Colossus is pretty much just two metal boxes stacked on top of each other with tubes. They should be easy to represent lords of war. Now, should we have a separate fluff page like the Covenant and Inductors books (though we should try to avoid the wankery that befalls those pages often). And I'm also looking at some models that could make for good Robots.

Overdrive Systems

Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 11:07, 30 May 2014 (UTC) Have been having another thought about these since I fluffed the science out a little bit, they could be made more ubiquitous. If the Imperium can manufacture anti-grav plates (i.e: suspensors) small enough to make Heavy Bolters lightweight then why not make them more widespread amongst Squats? Overdrive systems / Gravity generators available to entire squads? That might necessitate removing Rage to maintain balance, but would also make it cheaper. I also find the thought of 20 Squat Warriors flying through the air like massive cannonballs quite hilarious. But didn't want to change the effectiveness of the gear without consultation.

• • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 11:38, 30 May 2014 (UTC)On one hand it was meant to help an exo armor squad a little with tarpits...on the other hand, dwarves twisting gravity to smack into an opposing army hard enough to kill is funny as hell. Hmm...math hammer it a bit .
  • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 12:36, 30 May 2014 (UTC) On it's own HoW gives them all a free hit at I10 at basic strength, (usually 3) which is around a 33% chance to kill GEQ or ~11% for MEQ. It becomes more potent the more models you have with it, so a squad of 20 with HoW will likely kill ~7 GEQ or ~2 MEQ at I10 on the charge before any change of strike back. That may be a bit overpowered on regular squads then... On a character model as suggested; the Strength increases according to their stature, but even then the most they can expect is 1 wound each (or 2 on bikes). Yeah, I'm cool with the original iteration, it's not that OP. We still don't have squads of exo-armour in the list yet, something to work on.
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 12:58, 30 May 2014 (UTC)Quite, hmm...they obviously should have weapon options that make use of their S&P ability, though it does mean they can't overwatch. Also, are Thunder hammers and Chainfists sufficiently Dorfy to be in the Squat armory?
  • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 13:08, 30 May 2014 (UTC) I left out chainfists since we had lascutters, but am considering removing them entirely and replacing them with something similar to assault drills like on SM Centurions. I have this image in my head of Exo Armour looking like Bioshock Big Daddies. As for Hammers, I didn't want to go nuts with them since Macro Hammers was a thing, as was Inertial Hammers.

Forge Weapons

Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 16:00, 30 May 2014 (UTC) have put thought into yet another variant or the Heavy Axe/Heavy Chainsword and removing them too (Forge Weapons: Melee, Strength: User +2, AP: N/A: Rules: Two-Handed, Flaming) The Flaming Rule gives them Soul Blaze and in addition all attack count as Flame-Based for the purposes of other special rules, such as XXXXXX Brewer.

• • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 14:09, 30 May 2014 (UTC)Hmm...what are the current advantages to taking forged weapons over a power maul?
    • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 14:51, 30 May 2014 (UTC) cheaper for one, that's pretty much the reasoning. they are meant to be a variant of "Heavy Chainsword". Having Soul Blaze is mostly a minor add-on, since no matter how many weapons have it, a unit can only receive a single counter, and the flaming rule allows it to synergise with XXXXXX/Salamanders rules (and potentially others in the future) It is different from a Power Maul in the sense that it has no AP value and is not single handed, which makes it more appropriate for entire squads to have access to since you can't cut through armour saves with it, or combo it up with pistols for crazy numbers of attacks. A Macro Hammer by contrast is a two handed power maul (ie: a sledgehammer) that causes instant death on 6s due to Distort. Just think of them as heavy chainswords that set you on fire!
    • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 16:26, 30 May 2014 (UTC) Goody-goody gumdrops! Two handed weapons seem more dwarfy overall than one hand+shield weapons, so J'm thinking that one of our high grade melee units should be something carrying all two handed weapons. If they're packing exo-armor, they may need a bit of of an AP boost though. Or perhaps rampage (it'd also be fluffy as it would make them murderous against the model spam nature of the Tyranids, especially the /tg/brew codex, as well as the Orks and a Hrud book I have on the backburner). So they'd have bad AP that would disadvantage them against other elites (though they could perhaps swap out for two handed power axes that give a +2 strength bonus?) but would let them smash up huge amounts of rabble units. Cheaper melee specialists could go with mostly forge weapons as you said.
    • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 16:52, 30 May 2014 (UTC) yeah, Exo-Armour comes as standard with regular power weapons, such as axes or mauls or swords if you really wanted. (I think I said Axe... can change that). You'd really only want to upgrade to power fists or assault drills from there I guess, as it'd be pointless coming backwards to a Forge Weapon. We could make Macro-Hammers AP3 to distinguish them further from Power Mauls and really make them nasty? As for all these two-handed weapons I seem to be putting in, a lot of the Dwarf models seem to have two-handed axes or hammers and I didn't want them to go to waste. As for one-weapon + shields I couldn't really think of a good way to include them... maybe +1 to Armour saves as in Fantasy, or a 6++ as per Combat Shields? I don't really think it suits copying Storm Shields as that really does seem like an Astartes thing.
    • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 17:04, 30 May 2014 (UTC) So the rampage equipped horde breaker squad is a go? The cheaper, not exo-armour equipped squad would obviously mostly use forge weapons with a mix of some more expensive power weapons and macro-hammers. Of course the problem with the exo-armour squad is of course the same one that hurts Assault Centurions; SnP on assault units without a reliable assault transport sucks.
    • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 17:33, 30 May 2014 (UTC) maybe put Rampage into Bitter Hatred? or into the more elite units in general like the Hearthguard, Exo-Armoured squads and the Independent Characters? Better yet, we could include Rampage as part of "Hardy Men" and give it to the more Elite squads as you mention
      • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 19:31, 30 May 2014 (UTC) I also have one question. We still have room for about one or two more relics and I've already made three. So I was thinking if you would do the honors of filling out the last one or two relics? And what slot would a burrowing machine or deep striking sapper team go into?
      • Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 19:51, 30 May 2014 (UTC) I'd expect a burrowing machine to maybe go into Fast Attack, like a Dreadclaw Assault Pod does for Chaos Space Marines, though if it has big guns or hits hard it might be better suited to Elites like a Hades Assault Drill. Will have a think about more relics, am particularly looking into things that Ancestor Lords can use, since the Inertia Hammer is one of two sources of AP2 he gets access to after I fiddled with the options, the other being the Iron Arm psychic power.

• Recently, someone has been adding Forge weapon variants with no thought on how they compare to each other. There is no reason for any Strength three model to ever use a Forge Weapon that isn't an axe or for a Strength 4 or more model to ever use a Forge Weapon that isn't a hammer. Balance the variants before adding them.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:40, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
  • sorry, saw the Squat Kill Team Heralds of Ruin list and got a bit excited. I think it has some good ideas, but maybe others should take a look http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com/p/kill-team-rules.html --Tw6464 (talk) 19:52, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
    • Off top of my head, to give them all slightly different purpose. Sword is a Specialist weapon rather than a Two-Handed Greatsword (So dual-weilding is an option), Axe is the baseline, although maybe giving it AP5 over the others might help, and the Hammer has Unwieldy, making it much slower than the others while hitting that much harder. Sound good? The Greater Meh (talk) 01:01, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Conversion Beamer

I added the Conversion Beamer as an option for Guild Engineers since they are Squat versions of Techmarines but now I'm not so sure about that decision. They are likely to have the aptitude for it but it's a very closely protected Mechanicus secret so I'm not sure if the Squats would even have the means of getting ahold of it. If this is okay, then I'll add the Heavy Conversion Beamer as a main turret option throughout the codex.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:44, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Canon Leagues

• --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 07:36, 22 May 2014 (UTC) So if we're looking into crafting our own distinctive leagues/guilds using a chapter tactics style rule there are a number of canon ones that we can expand on, and it also implies that there's no way that Hive Fleet Kraken could have destroyed ALL of them, considering how widespread they were.
  • League of Emberg - the smallest league consisting of four strongholds (essentially a hive city) and lies close to the Eye of Terror, possible links to Chaos can be drawn here? evidence of mutation or influence of chaos gods? perhaps a 40k equivalent of Chaos Dwarfs could be explored.
  • League of Thor - the most powerful league containing 300 strongholds, clashed with the League of Grindel in M39 over the discovery of a lost stronghold. Though the war ended they remain bitter rivals - possible Squat vs Squat bonuses here?
  • League of Grindel - just mentioned above, not much else is known other than either two leaders (or worlds) were captured by Thor. So that possibly hints that they are under-strength or somehow humiliated.
  • League of Kapellar - actually the largest in size, could represent the "common squat" ?
  • League of Norgyr - lies closest to Terra, so they may have the closest links with the Imperium
  • We could use "Demiurg" to represent fleet-based squats, or those refugees who have had their homes destroyed by the Tyranids, since that's what Battlefleet Gothic describes them as.

• Crazy Cryptek (talk) 09:38, 22 May 2014 (UTC) Before I throw suggestions for League tactics, what do you envision here?
  • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 19:24, 22 May 2014 (UTC) uncertain; will play with ideas here for a while. Am looking through the USRs to see what best applies. Am also looking through the Fantasy book Tamurkhan for Chaos Dwarf ideas that could be stolen for the League of Emberg. Their rules appeal to me quite a lot. They even have demon-trains/land-trains

Special Rules

• --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 17:03, 28 May 2014 (UTC) Hey dude, any clarification on what "Hardy Souls for Hardy Men does?" Am reckoning Stubborn USR or immunity to the "Fear" USR, was not wanting to change it until it was a bit clearer in the text.
  • Crazy Cryptek (talk) 19:22, 28 May 2014 (UTC)Yeah I thought I put Stubborn and Adamantium will. Derp.
• --Ben Ben (talk) 22:19, 21 December 2014 (UTC) I have this question. In the last about League of Norgyr. Shouldn't they have Forces of The Imperium as Battle Brothers instead of simply Astra Militarium? They did fight alongside Imperial Guard regiments and there probably were Squats that worked well along Space Marines.
• Crazy Cryptek (talk) 14:34, 22 December 2014 (UTC) Sure why not?
  • --Ben (talk) 15:38, 22 December 2014 (UTC) On the other hand, what relationships did Squats have with Sisters of Battle and Inquisition? I would see the Space Dwarfs being bros with Guardsmen, Tempestus Scions and Astartes, but due to their Abhuman status, wouldn't they have difficulties with the Sisters (unless the Nuns with Guns aren't this zealous) and the Inquisition (unless the Inquisition would do everything so to be on the Squats' good side)? Just saying...
  • --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 15:52, 22 December 2014 (UTC) When I put in that rule I considered that, seeing as many of the institutions of the Imperium would have major problems allying themselves with a xenos race as "battle brothers". As for the actual fluff, I don't have that much to be honest, only a copy of the original rulebook which didn't really involve sisters of battle, and the Inquisition wasn't properly fleshed out to the extent today (in that the Ordo Malleus was the deep dark inner circle-type secret)
  • --Ben (talk) 16:28, 22 December 2014 (UTC) That was old pre-4th Edition Imperium. Also Abhuman Regiments are seen with high regards by Imperial Guard Commanders. I mean the 6th Edition IG Codex (Astra Militarium) actually says that Abhumans have earned great respect for the many victories they gained. Why not use both old and current source materials and strike a middle point. There would be Squats that maybe even worked with the Imperial Guard as something of Commanding Officers or even Generals and they won respect of the humans with a mix of brains and brawn (with some grit and motivation techniques). There would be also Squats that worked so well with certain Space Marine Chapters that they help each other out. That's what I think. The Sisters would have difficulties to fight along Squats due to their beliefs, while Inquisitors...maybe it's actually depending on the Inquisitor. Every Inquisitor is a snowflake in his own right. Thus there are those that are overzealous jerks, crazy closet-heretics that think they are doing it right, slightly less overzealous/jerkass/heretical, and finally those that strike a middle ground between all of these yet have enough common sense to be approachable by others (though they would still be paranoid and suspicious because...well that's one of the few things that a Inquisitor needs to have).
• --108.193.194.18 02:10, 17 August 2015 (UTC) The "Subterranean Assault" Rule only works if the Borers and Drillers arrive on turn 1. The Unit can't arrive on the same turn as the Borer or Driller, so any unit that chooses to arrive that way would arrive on turn 3 at the earliest and turn 5 at the latest. I've updated it.
• --Tw6464 (talk) 15:45, 27 October 2016 (UTC) I am wondering if the "Hardy Souls for Hardy Men" special rule should be applied to all infantry units or to only a select few. Thoughts?

HQ stats

I know that we have made the Squat HQ choices have really high statlines due to it being that way in previous editions but should we still be doing that now? Today, HQ models having significantly higher statlines than the rank and file only applies to races that have a fluff justification for it (like the orks). I'd also like to lower their skill statlines a bit since the max statline from the Horus Heresy forge world books puts humans (which squats are derived from) as having a maximum WS and BS as 5 and maximum Attacks and Wounds as 3 so I would make maximum WS be 6, maximum BS be 4, maximum wounds be 3 and maximum attacks be 3. --Ilniaj (talk) 00:59, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

• I got the impression that the ancestor lord is basically a Dwarven Avatar of Khaine, only driven by the souls of the honored dead rather than a shard of a broken god. I think making it a Daemonic Monstrous creature would be best. Similarly, if we're going with WHFB dorfs; Dorfs get larger and stronger as they grow older (only to a certain point though, then old age crashes all around them) so there is justification for better stats for some dorfs going by their fantasy counterparts.Crazy Cryptek (talk) 23:05, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Suggestions

Ok, hopefully there is still interest in this project, because I have some suggestions. Feel free to ignore them if they are stupid.

• since shot weapons in the fluff are firing what is essentially high tech buckshot, how about a rule like this: Spread Shot:Models firing this weapon during overwatch count as BS2 rather than BS1 (If that is to powerful, how about this weapon can re-roll to-hit rolls during overwatch?)this would reinforce the idea that the squats are at their best when the are on the defensive.

• some sort of orbital bombardment ability for the HQ's, similar to the Chapter Master's ability in the SM codex. Alternatively, what about some sort of spotter unit that can call down artillery barrages to their location from beyond the map?

• a few areas of clarification. can someone please add in point costs for the tech-relics, as well as clarify what exactly are the abilities that the Squat Bike confers (+1 tougness, etc.)also, is it just me, or are the point costs for everything in this codex a little low? A fully kitted out Warrior squad costs less then three hundred points and only has one less heavy weapon slots than the dedicated heavy weapons squads (the thunderers).

Finally, Here is a piece of equipment that I found while looking through some other squat fandexes. could this potentially be a piece of equipment available to exo-warriors and hearthguard?

Repulsor Shield:

Fluff: not sure exactly how it would work, probably some sort of graviton or forcefield type technology. used by the most elite of the exo-warriors and hearth-guard.

Crunch: During Close Combat,once all attacks have been made by both sides, models equipped with Repulsor Shields may activate them. When activated, any enemy infantry units engaged with the unit take a Strength test. If the test is passed nothing happens.If the test is failed, all models in the unit are pushed so that they are 1” away from all models from the unit that activated the shields. if there are no enemy models left within 1”, the Close Combat immediately ends, and models are no longer engaged. Note that because this is resolved before calculating combat resolution neither side will have won or lost the combat, so neither side need take a morale test, make Fall Back moves, etc.

Is this project dead?

Is this project dead? I hope not, because I think you guys were doing a great job. If no one else plans on contributing, I will try to finish it myself.

Chaos Rewards/Marks Points

There don't seem to be any point values listed for the Chaos Rewards unique to this codex, i.e. the Mark of Hashut and suchlike. I had a quick look through the history of the page but couldn't see any that had previously been included but deleted. Anyone any thoughts on how to price these?

• As a note, please try to sign your posts as it makes talk threads easier to read. As for prices, I dunno, I'm not super great with how to price things, especially when the game is as fucked as it currently is balancewise. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 14:14, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Adding more units and adding fluff

I'm wondering if we should be adding any more units to this codex. If people are planning to add more units, I had some suggestions:

• A Longbeard-style unit, not as old as the Living Ancestors, but pretty damn old nonetheless.
• Some sort of Bull Centaur unit, blessed sons of Hashut, pretty much the cult unit for Hashut
• Some kind of vehicle unit that is like the Cyclops, because big guns are awesome, gun could be like a bigger version of the Shadowsword cannon
• Some kind of robot unit, like what the Squats had in First Edition, not connected to Legio Cybernetica.

In addition, I would really appreciate some help filling in the Fluff boxes for the each unit. I haven't had the time to add to the boxes, and I would greatly appreciate it if someone could help out.

Also, filling out the Overlord Airship profile would be appreciated--Tw6464 (talk) 16:09, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

I have a small proposal. Now that I have some time, I could come up with some special characters. - Ben (talk) 20:14, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

-that sounds perfect. im almost finished up with college, so i can finally get around to filling in the lore boxes.--Tw6464 (talk) 23:42, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

I thought about taking names of Norse Dwarfs, changing them a little and make them into Squat expies. The names I chose are:

- Hreidmarr (king of the Dwarfs). Would turn into Hreid who'd be a 40K Thorgrim, but a little bit more coolheaded than the latter. He'd be like the Supreme Overlord of the Squat Clans in the form of a First Among Equals style like Thorgrim is. He'd either have a unique Exo-Armour, or a unique Iridium Armour. Also has a mighty two-handed power axe and a wrist-mounted Coil Repeater.

-Gandalf (yes, Tolkien named the Grey Wizard after a Norse Dwarf). He'd be a beefy Ancestor Lord with a mighty two-handed force hammer by the name of Gandr.

-Brokk. He'd have his name unchanged here. He'd be a Master Guild Engineer with some buffs for mechanized units.

Though more variety would be welcomed.

Ben (talk) 20:05, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Another Option would be legacy characters, A modified "Bugman" (Boltsman/Nydman) springs to mind as a potential example. I'm also trying to remember the name of the Dwarf who caught Gold Fever to such a degree that he turned into a dragon (Fafnir, I believe) would make for a decent Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer name, there's also Eitri, which is another name for Sindri, in mythology.

Similarly, vehicle pilots are an option, using Valkyrie names for any specific flying aces should be more than suitable. The Greater Meh (talk) 22:05, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_valkyrie_names

That would be fine actually. Though I thought about Fafnir as more of a warrior than a sorcerer equivalent of a Chaos Squat.

But yeah, a legacy character or two would also be fine. OK, I'll try making them and fluff about them.

Also there is a Sindri in the Squat Codex, but he's a Engineer.

Ben (talk) 09:51, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm wondering if there should be an equivalent to the Slayers. Given the different Leagues, could there be a Slayer League with a leader alike Ungrim Ironfist? --Super12345 (talk) 00:41, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

this sounds like an incredible idea! I approve of it--Tw6464 (talk) 05:04, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

As an additional note, how much should we adapt from WHFB vs homebrew? I'm thinking the Hammerers & especially the Rangers can be added. --Super12345 (talk) 23:58, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

The Overlord Airship still needs its entry, and while I'm not too great with wargear, I'm pretty certain this might make for a solid base. (the HP is from the fact it's said to be as big, and as tough as a Tau Manta, and they have 30HP) put the cost up at 1400 to start The Greater Meh (talk) 01:00, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Name	BS	FAV	SAV	RAV	HP
Overlord Air Fortress	4	13	13	12	30

Unit Composition: 1Overlord Air Fortress

Unit Type: Vehicle (Flier, Super-Heavy Vehicle)

Wargear:

• Twin-Linked Super-Heavy Coil Cannon (Facing Front)
• 6 Battle Cannon Batteries (3 On each Side, Increased Blast Size (7" seems about right), Ordinance 3)
• 8 Melta Bombs (Bombs with the Armourbane USR, S:8, AP1, Large Blast)
• Ground Facing Shot Cannon Turrets, about 12 seems right)

Special Rules

• Sky Fortress: Models firing at the Overlord Air Fortress do not need the Skyfire rule in order to fire at their full Ballistic skill due to its extreme size, and the Overlord Air Fortress may not Jink. Despite this the Overlord Air Fortress may still not be targeted by Blast or Template weapons.
• Fire Saturation: Due to the sheer number of weapons the Overlord Air Fortress mounts no fortification or armour may stand against it for long. All non-bomb attacks made by this model gain the Ignores Cover USR, and gain a +1 bonus to penetration rolls against Vehicles and buildings.
• Repair Crews: The Overlord, for all its mighty and advanced technology, is still based upon the ancient designs of zeppelins. Even if all options are taken to overcome the shortcomings of old designs, each flight crew includes a number of Guild Engineers, often including the Engineer responsible for the craft's making, to make battle repairs as the Overlord's fall cannot be allowed. Every turn this model may roll a D6, on a 4+ it regains one Hull Point, to a maximum of 30.

Options

Alright I think we have enough characters. Now, can you guys help me add some fluff for the the other units?--Tw6464 (talk) 16:40, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Dunno how you are now, but I'd like to add one more unit. What would you say about Squat Berserkers? - Ben (talk) 19:29, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

pretty sure that the clanless refugees unit is similar enough, but whatever works for you. I'd also like to get a Bull Centaurs unit in there.--Tw6464 (talk) 20:34, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Clanless Refugees would be something akin to a cheaper version of Berserkers. I thought of them as a Elite Choice. Something between the Clanless Refugees and the Exo-Armour Squads. Also I'd like to add an additional weapon for them if it's possible. Also would like to see those Bull Centaurs. - Ben (talk) 20:57, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

Added Squat Berserkers and Chaos Squat Bull Centaurs to the Elite slot. In case of the latter it is needed to be decided if they should be Elite or be relegated to Fast Attack. Also added a new weapon, the Heavy Chainaxe. - Ben (talk) 17:18, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Was thinking of a final unit for this Codex. A Chaos Squat one. What do you think of Chaos Androids?

Also for the Overlord Air Fortress, in the Options I'd give it the ability to exchange all 6 Battle Cannon Batteries for 6 Ion Cannon Batteries (45pts), or 6 Heavy Coil Cannon Batteries (30pts). May take any of the upgrades in the Aircraft Wargear.

Chaos androids sound AMAZING, write that up if you're able too. also that I like that idea for the Overlord Air Fortress, but i also think that adding something like the cyclops would be interesting--Tw6464 (talk) 22:51, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Problem is where to put them. Elite is already filled with heavy hitters. Maybe as Heavy Support? - Ben (talk) 22:53, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

I think heavy support sounds perfect for chaos androids. what would they be armed with?--Tw6464 (talk) 23:10, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Simple. They'd have the same weapons options as Squat Warriors would, but the real danger for anyone fighting those things would be their daemonic nature combined with great durability. - Ben (talk) 10:26, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

So something like this? Something like Mech-priests and Serviors, combined with Daemonic Toughness?

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed nec velit ut nisl tristique posuere quis eu neque. Integer non volutpat libero, sit amet dapibus nisl. Cras non tempor nulla, id ultricies lacus. Nulla facilisi. Etiam ut nunc convallis, ultricies metus sed, cursus mi. Suspendisse potenti. Nulla auctor quam in ligula tempor tristique. Cras magna dolor, commodo non aliquam vitae, fermentum eget urna. Suspendisse sed ante laoreet, placerat ante pharetra, viverra risus.

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Golem	4	3	4	5	2	2	1	9	5+
Controller	4	3	4	5	2	2	2	10	5+

Unit Composition: 4 Chaos Squat Golems of Hashut, 1 Golem Controller

Unit Type: Infantry

Wargear: Flak Armour, Shot Rifle, CCW, Frag Gren, Krak Gren

Special Rules: League Affiliation (Emberg Only), Bitter Hatred (Controller Only), Fearless, Feel No Pain (5+), It Will Not Die (5+), Mindlock (Golems only)

Options:

Something like that, but in the fluff Chaos Androids had a tendency to pervert an order as much as possible (because they are in fact Chaos Daemons jammed into a robotic body and are forced to obey the orders of a mortal, then you can see that they are pretty pissed at that and will do everything in their capabilities to screw up an order to a lesser or greater degree). Also I can see the whole Chaos Daemons thing a good gaming mechanism. Would get some nifty bonuses depending on the daemon residing in the android. I'll go and try to later make the unit into something slow but powerful (as in 3rd ED Necrons tier, not to mention said Androids were proto-Necrons at first). - Ben (talk) 11:23, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

it's a good start, though I am a bit confused as to why they have the standard equipment of squat warriors. Maybe something like a ray-gun or reverse engineered gauss rifle to reflect their origins? Also, whenever you're done with that, can you and Groggianath help me write fluff entries? Like for the life of me I would but I'm stupidly busy right now--Tw6464 (talk) 15:16, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Already done the unit. Now you made me think about their main weapons. Will have to make new stuff for them then. I will do some of the entries if I can. - Ben (talk) 16:29, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

I can't promise to writing full fluff entries, I tend to be better at punching up and editing. That said, I will try to put as many "quotes" in as I can, and run the editing brush on any full fluff entries so far.

Also going to think about squad upgrade models (Like Longstrike, Gunner Sergent Harker, Naaman, etc), and formations. The Greater Meh (talk) 01:30, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

that's fine, ill try to add some stuff when im able to.--Tw6464 (talk) 01:55, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Oodles of polishing up, specially on some of the odder or vaguer syntax in here, some more fluff, may think about adding Chameleon cloaks for Warriors, Refugees and Sappers as this 'Dex lacks any real access to cover saves, will probably pen a Wargear entry for the Heavy Warbike later this evening as it lacks one at the moment. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:39, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Ilniaj removed for some reason Squat Berserkers and Androids. I addressed this issue on his account. Now waiting. - Ben (talk) 18:38, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, if you want to be accurate about it, the Berserkers got folded into the Hearthguard, he even saved the fluff in there, so they're not actually gone, just subsumed The Greater Meh (talk) 19:32, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

OK, now I see this. But honestly it should also be appropriately modified (maybe an upgrade that gives them Rage and Counterattack). Still the part with Chaos Golem Androids is something I cannot stomach. The old fluff included them as Chaos Squat creations. I can understand if they were OP and would require nerfing, but man... - Ben (talk) 20:38, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm with you on that. Illniaj removing stuff without a reasonable explanation is infuriating--Tw6464 (talk) 22:08, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, if I'm to play the part of Devil's Advocate, I can see these reasons

Speaking of Chaos & Slayer equivalents, what about the Infernal Guard? Disgraced Chaos Dwarfs who seal way their names & faces out of shame. I could imagine some Chaos Squat wanting to hide his face away after an especially shameful failure in a similar way. --Super12345 (talk) 02:25, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

1. We have an insane amount of Heavy Support already, that slot is getting rather bloated
2. The units themselves were almost completely unique, they shared very little wargear with the rest of the codex, adding wargear bloat
3. There are a lot of unique rules to this codex, BH and HSfHM, each individual league, adding more rules which only apply to a single unit is an unnecessary complication

Yes I'm agreed that him not explaining himself is a ball-ache, but at the same time these reasons are somewhat obvious from a game design standpoint. The Greater Meh (talk) 22:04, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

fair enough. I'm more annoyed that he just removes shit without consulting anyone.--Tw6464 (talk) 22:08, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about not explaining, it's pretty much what Groggarioth said. The League of Emberg already has a lot of extra stuff with both the Daemon Engines of the Dark Mechanicus and the Bull Centaurs. Maybe the Golems could be brought back in the form of Squats in Centurion Armor?--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 22:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

apology accepted. I do like that you added that Emberg could take daemon engines and such, though, so I think that makes up for the golems. I think centurion armor may be a bit of overkill, but it's your prerogative.--Tw6464 (talk) 22:56, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I've decided to replace the Missile Launcher option with Twin-linked Ion Rifles in the Attack Bike entry. Missile Launchers on a bike aren't a good idea considering the backblast would go right towards the gunner and risk causing the bike to swerve.

Squat Centurions? Chaos Androids aren't like your average Daemon Engine. They are daemonic, but not giant machines. They are daemonic infantry here. So good even Chaos Space Marines and other Chaos Armies want them. - Ben (talk) 12:32, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Name	BS	FAV	SAV	RAV	HP	Combat Role	Pursuit	Agility
Overlord Air Fortress	3	14	13	12	36	Air Leviathan	1	1

Unit Composition: 1 Overlord Air Fortress

Unit Type: Vehicle (Super-Heavy Flyer, Hover)

Wargear:

• Super-Heavy Coil Cannon (Facing Front)
• 48 Heavy Bombs

Special Rules: It Will Not Die

• Sky Fortress: Models firing at the Overlord Air Fortress do not need the Skyfire rule in order to fire at their full Ballistic skill due to its extreme size, and the Overlord Air Fortress may not Jink.

Options

• May exchange 12 Heavy Bombs (this may be done more than once) for:
  • 8 Hunter-Killer Missiles (free)
  • 2 Hellstorm Bombs (free)
  • 1 Melta Bomb (free)
• May exchange its Super-Heavy Coil Cannon for a:
  • Turbo-Laser Destructor (free)
  • Twin-linked Long-Barrelled Ion Cannon (free)
  • Heavy Rotary Shot Cannon (free)
• May take up to three sets (one on each side) of side sponsons with each sponson armed with one of the following:
  • Rotary Shot Cannon (50pts/pair)
  • Rapier Destroyer (70pts/pair)
  • Ion Cannon (90pts/pair)
  • Heavy Coil Cannon (100pts/pair)
• May choose equipment from the Aircraft Armory list.

Here's my attempt. I'm removed Fire Saturation since having a lot of guns has not caused anything in 40k to Ignore Cover. Repair Crews has been replace with It Will Not Die. The Heavy Bombs and Hellfire Bombs use the exact same rules as the bombs of the same name used by the Marauder Bomber. The Melta Bomb would be a SD Blast Bomb. Fusion Projectors and Seismic Weapons are not available to the Overlord because those would not be effective at the ranges that aircraft use or in thin high altitude air. Since it has 4 times the Hull Points of a Marauder Bomber, I've given it 4 times the payload. Compared to the manta, it has less firepower but is more resilient.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 03:40, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Holy shit this actually looks really fucking good. Nice Work, man! --Tw6464 (talk) 05:18, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Looks solid, all it really needs is some sort of tail gun, a Super-Heavy shield (I'm pretty certain all Super-Heavies have access to some sort of Inv save), and double the cost of Armory equipment. Time to do the Goliath Mega-Cannon The Greater Meh (talk) 18:20, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

The original version didn't have a tail gun (at least according to the Netepic rules, I don't know how to access the originals), not all Super-Heavies have an Invulnerable save (for example, Baneblades, Stompa's, Orcas etc...) and the cost of Armory equipment should not be doubled. I have not seen a single case where armory costs are doubled in comparison between normal vehicles and Super-Heavies, they tend to cost exactly the same.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 00:14, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

A few questions about the Chaos Squats

Just to clarify, the Chaos Androids (from back before the Necrons were made) serve a role similar to how the Black Orcs & Hobgoblins for the Chaos Dwarfs or something else? The "Although powerful, Golem Androids will at best try to pervert the orders given to them to spite their master. At worst they will try to outright rebel to gain their freedom." part reminds me of how the Hobgoblins are almost as backstabby as Revolver Ocelot turned into a Skaven.

Next I'm curious if all the Leagues have Berserkers/Slayers. I'm unsure if Emberg would care enough for wholesome Squat ethics to be ashamed given their Chaos affiliation. The Chaos Dwarfs had the Infernal Guard which was similar. Maybe Chaos Squats just get forcibly mutated unto Bull Centaurs instead but the description implies that'd be very expensive. I'll just just assume they do have Berserkers who look like Infernal Guard. Then about Fafnir. The Chaos Dwarfs made Bretonnia look well-supported & I know it's still in the thinking stage but the name & descriptions make me imagine someone stealing & hoarding treasure & powerful artifacts alike a classical fantasy dragon. The impression I got was an opportunist, hungry for power. Oddly, I'm reminded of a Chaos Dwarf thread on /tg/ where someone posted about Chaos Dwarf Sorcerer Ganon-Dorf.

Also, is the lack of Daemon Princes just a crunch thing? I could imagine a Squat mutating into some spawn.

Personally, I like to think that Emberg's Berserkers and Hearthguard are pretty much just the Infernal Guard. We probably won't give them rules that reflect this at the moment (seriously, Emberg has ENOUGH DAMN UNITS AND SPECIAL RULES), but when we make some more stuff for the other Leagues, we'll consider it.--Tw6464 (talk) 16:48, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

New Ideas for Special Rules, Units, Weapons, etc.

Feel free to reject these if they are stupid. If they are not stupid, then with all your permissions I will add them to the page.

High-Powered Shotguns: since the squats regularly use rare alloys in their ammunition, and shotguns would be good weapons for cramped tunnel fighting, I figured they should have some. The idea would be either making them similar to the new Tau Breacher weapons (something like +1 Strength and AP4 if the shotgun is within half range.) This could be an alternate basic weapon for warriors or sappers. The alternative is to have them count as template weapons for the purpose of overwatch, to represent the way the shotgun works.

HPS Considering that the Shot-Weaponry is already supposed to work that way—which is why they have Shred—this seems redundant, but lets give it a shot (kill me) The Greater Meh (talk) 15:27, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Shot Scatter Gun (Close Range) || 0"-6" || S:5 || AP5 || Assault 2, Shred, Spread-Shot
Shot Scatter Gun (Long Range)  ||7"-12" || S:4 || AP- || Assault 2, Shred, Spread-Shot

• Spread-Shot A weapon with this special rule is fired at BS 2 when resolving Overwatch.

The Breacher: This Scatter gun was one of the last projects of Urist Uristbeard, a battlesmith from the League of Grindel. Incorporating a mixture of mechanismsfrom both Shot weaponry and Coil weaponry, this weapon is designed to fire high density Sabot clusters, alongside a variety of other experimental ammunitions, rather than just regular buckshot. In the hands of a canny and prepared Squat warrior this scatter-gun is more than capable of destroying any threat the weilder comes across.

Breacher (Close)                    || 0"-6" || S:5 || AP5 || Assault 2, Shred, Rending, Spread-Shot
Breacher (Long)                     ||7"-12" || S:4 || AP- || Assault 2, Shred, Rending, Spread-Shot
Breacher (EMP Charger Slug)         || R 12" || S:2 || AP- || Assault 1, Shred, Haywire, Gets Hot
Breacher (High-Density Slug)        || R 18" || S:7 || AP2 || Heavy 1, Shred, Precision Shot, Gets Hot
Breacher (Submunition Cluster Shot) || R 12" || S:4 || AP- || Assault 1, Shred, Blast, Ignores Cover, Wall of Death, Gets Hot

Chemical Weapons/Flamer Specialists: Since the Squat's primary enemies are the Orks and Tyranids, it seemed appropriate that the Squats might have some sort of Chemical weaponry or Flamer weaponry based unit designed to kill them. I envision the unit as wearing heavily armored Haz-Mat suits. Perhaps give them access to radiation based weaponry (the Squat homeworlds were supposed to be quite radioactive if I recall correctly)or some other particularly nasty weapon. This would be a path that only the most vengeful and morbid squats follow, and once you become one, you are one for life.

Rapid Tracking Reticule: something like what the sicarian in HH has, making the weapon's shots ignore jink. Fluff-wise, the Squats developed it due often being unable to bring their heavy weapons to bear on more speedy targets.

Grav-Wave Generator:(Stolen from HH: Book 4). This seems to fit both the Squat's style of warfare and the squats are experts in gravity manipulation...

--Urist (talk) 09:47, 8 February 2017 (UTC)Urist

Hmm. The first one is a bit redundant. The shot rifles already function as more powerful versions of the typical shotgun used by everyone else and is comparable to the Eldar Shuriken Catapult but with Shred instead of pseudo rending. Though perhaps solid-slug versions that are 24" Rapid Fire could be added that everyone could use in place of their shot rifle. The second part doesn't need a new unit. Just equip your units with a lot of Fusion Projectors. The third might fit as an upgrade for vehicles and the fourth could be used as special issue wargear.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:47, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

I also have an idea for a League of Emberg unit. What do you think of CYBER-SPAWNS? They are like the good old those whose names you don't say out loud, but with cybernetics and guns. What about this? - Ben (talk) 14:03, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

• I actually like the idea of the different stats depending on range. implement that immediately! as for Cyber-Spawn... maybe we should focus on other leagues for now. We already have Bull Centaurs, the Sorcerer of Hashut and the Chaos Android--Tw6464 (talk) 16:31, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Well, if we're doing special units for each league I vote a Grav-Skimmer Transport for the Demiurg. Trade with the Tau, and general Zero-Grav environments would be conducive to developing that kind of tech. The Greater Meh (talk) 18:04, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
    • I agree, the Demiurg do need stuff to distinguish them from the other Squat forces. I vote that we use some units from the Demiurg section from Codex - Tau Auxiliary--Tw6464 (talk) 18:13, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
      • Considering how much cross-contamination there already is, that may not achieve what you think it will. I do want to go back there and really flesh out that section, I just haven't had the time outside of all my other projects. The Greater Meh (talk) 19:56, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

These all have unique wargear and weapons associated with them so I was wondering how that would interact with the HQ choices. Adding the unique weapons and equipment to the wargear lists would mean that someone could build character versions of the unit but that would also allow the other leagues to build the units via the non-unique options.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 04:19, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Emberg Unique Units

• Sorcerer
• Centaurs
• Golems

NO MORE EMBERG UNITS! WE HAVE ENOUGH! The Greater Meh (talk) 16:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

I know we said no more Emberg Units, but I just realized a few days ago that we forgot an important part of the Chaos Squats: BLUNDERBUSSES

First other league units though. BLUNDERBUSSES can wait until we've added the finishing touches to those.--Tw6464 (talk) 21:55, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Norgyr Unique Units

None at the moment, but no more than three, maybe bring in some Squatified models from the Imperium. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Squatified? Like in the ability to include abhumans and certain IG units like Commissars, Psykers and Priests? Would be fluffed out as exchange forces. Norgyr gives the Imperium some of their own dudes, while the latter gives them some of their dudes. - Ben (talk) 15:35, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Commissars and Priests and Tech-Priests sound lovely. We'll need to make them different from their codex counterparts... Also Im thinking maybe Norgyr has access to las weapons and bolters. I dunno if that'll work.--Tw6464 (talk) 17:53, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Will always work. In the older lore they had these and more. - Ben (talk) 23:08, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Had an idea for three units. First one is a not!Platoon Command Squad that can be taken as a troop type without taking a slot. It's composed of a Commissar, a Priest, a Techpriest and a Psyker. The squad is led by a Imperial Officer. This squad's job is to buff units around it and spam support abilities.

The 2nd one is a abhuman one. Essentially Ogryns with cyber-enhancements, armor similar to Bullgryns but with a shitload of modifications + a backpack with a Ratling Sniper in it.

3rd type of unit is something akin to humans that were found by League Norgyr and integrated into their societies. This resulted in the humans taking some of the League's mentality as their own. Are in fact better than normal guardsmen (and better equipped), yet not as good as Stormtroopers/Tempestus Scions (though they can be upgraded to be as good as them).

What do you think? - Ben (talk) 10:17, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

's definitely interesting, it was only sheer force of will that stopped me from giggling the idea of Master-Blaster trucking around with a league of Space Dwarf, but that's 'cause it's awesome. Throw up some templates and let's get down to work The Greater Meh (talk) 10:42, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I think that the Command Squad thing sounds interesting, though I personally would prefer if the units included were separate units altogether. the 2nd one sounds absolutely fucking hilarious, but I'm unsure how practical that would be in terms of fluff (which I care a great deal about) and crunch. the 3rd unit is also an interesting Idea; I'm unsure how normal humans would integrate into Squat society, but it sounds cool. I'm honestly thinking Ratlings and Ogryns could be taken (Abhumans gotta stick together, right?)

I was wondering if maybe there could be some sort of Las Weapon that Squat troopers are armed with (like the ones they had in 1st edition). Maybe something that Squats Guard build to comply with Munitorum Standards? Maybe make they make it so that it's infinitely better that the flashlights that the Guard normally uses. I dunno if anybody has any ideas for this, but i think it's interesting. Thoughts?--Tw6464 (talk) 16:56, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

We could steal the lasrifles from HH Book 4: Range 30", Strength 3, AP - Rapid Fire , can be fired as either a Range 36" Heavy 2 weapon or its regular profile, and can be upgraded to gain a Range 18" Strength 6 AP4 Assault 1 profile that has a chance of damaging the gun when fired.

--Urist (talk) 07:41, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps a Squat Baneblade called the Hearthlord.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 04:19, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Someone needs to make rules for the Hearthlord because I really want to see what could be done. Should it have --Tw6464 (talk) 21:50, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

The NetEpic list had the Squats able to field Ratlings but not Ogryns so a maybe a simple copy-paste of the Imperial Guard Ratling squads as a unit fielded by Norgyr. They didn't have Ogryns however and I'm not sure that the Squats would be fine working with dumb, loud brutes who abuse any equipment given to them out of incompetence. I'm not keen on normal humans with better equipment since those would end up serving the same purpose as the Squat Warriors. Hearthlords and Ratlings would have significant differences from the other units. Maybe Squat versions of an Imperial Knight but that raises the question of why only Norgyr has those since the fluff has Knights being present as both protectors and heavy workers during the Dark Age which would cause the Squats to have them as well. Hmm. I just realized that the Norgyr league doesn't have a passive affect and that a player can have it do nothing if they wish. What should be changed?--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 18:23, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

OK, finally had some after finding some time for Norgyr. You can change this and that since I won't be around for some time now. Essentially the bastard children of Gondor Rangers and the Men of Dale...IN SPACE.

Feel free to modify them. - Ben (talk) 21:11, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Dalathan Rangers

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Points Cost - 115

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Dalathan Ranger	3	4	3	3	1	2	2	8	4+
Dalathan Champion	4	4	3	3	2	3	3	9	4+

Unit Composition: 4 Rangers, 1 Champion

Unit Type: Infantry (Champion is a Character)

Special Rules:

• Stubborn
• League Affiliation (Norgyr)
• Stealth
• Silent Movement: Infiltrate and Scout USR on the first turn.
• Spray and Pray: The Black Rifles of the Dalathian men have one special trick up their sleeves. By intentionally removing the power limiter than controls the weapons firing rate these guns may spit death and hellfire at such a rate as to make Orks green(er) with envy. This does however have the unfortunate side effect of heating the guns to beyond their safety tolerances and several Dalantian Rangers have lost their lives when the power packs violently detonate under the strain. A model with this special rule may make two ranged attacks with the Black Rifle, this weapon gains the Gets Hot! USR until the beginning of their next movement phase

Wargear:

• Carapace Armour
• Frag Grenades
• Krak Grenades
• Blind Grenades (Count as Defensive Grenades)
• Melta Bombs
• Camo Gear
• Wargear (Trooper): Black Rifle

• Black Rifle: A unique lasweapon made in the Squat forges on Dalathan itself, these rifles look like the predecessors of the Hot-Shot Lasguns used by modern Imperial Guard Stormtroopers and Tempestus Scions, the Hellgun. Although similar looking (albeit obsidian black), these weapons are superior to even the Hot-Shot Volley Guns used by Scions, do not require a energy supply backpack due to superior batteries, and allow for sensible barrages of lasfire on the move. However, it is when the Dalathan Rangers are stationary is when the Black Rifles show their true potential. Once Stationary, the weapon is capable of devastating damage to even Chaos Space Marines and similarly durable targets with ease. In addition the rifles have build-in special issue bayonets that allow the wielder to fight efficiently in melee if the situation forces them to dirty their hands up close. In melee it counts as a Close Combat Weapon.

• Wargear (Champion): Power Weapon, Black Pistol

• Black Pistol: The pistol version of the Black Rifle, a Black Pistol is as powerful as the rifle itself, yet lacks the sheer volume of shots the former is capable of. Just like the Black Rifle, the pistol also has a special issue blade that allows the wielder to fight more efficiently in melee. The Black Pistol, along with counting as a Close Combat Weapon in melee, gives additionally an extra attack in melee.

Black Rifle (Assault Mode) || 24" || S4 || AP3 || Rapid Fire, Shred

Black Pistol || 24" || S4 || AP3 || Pistol, Shred

Options:

• You can add up to 5 Dalathan Troopers to the squad (20pts each).
• The Dalathan Champion can swap his Power Weapon for any weapon from the Melee Weapons list and their Black Pistol for any of the pistol weapons in the Special Weapons list. Alternatively he can swap both the Power Weapon and Black Pistol for the Dalathan Power Claws for 50pts.

"*Dalathan Power Claws: Based on the ceremonial weapons from the past ages of Dalathan, when its populace was a technologically advanced civilization before the great war between its people ravaged it, the Claws made by both the Norgyr Guild Engineers and Dalathan smiths are exotic weapons made for the Champions that lead the Dalathan Troopers. Each of the claws incorporate a modified Black Pistol that can be fired with just a thought. The Dalathan Power Claws count as Power Fists with the Shred and Armourbane rules. In addition each fist has a Black Pistol and thus gives the Champion the Gunslinger USR by default.

• The Champion can swap his Carapace Armour for Squat Iridium Armour for 20pts.
• Up to two models per five can swap their Black Rifles for any weapons from the Specialist Weapons list.
• Any single model can take a Medi-Pack for 15pts.

• Medi-Pack: A model with this wargear grants the Feel No Pain USR to the entire squad.

• All models can take a Grav-Chute for 10pts each. This allows them to Deep Strike.
• The squad may take a Rhino as a Dedicated Transport.

Ok, first off, this is cheese. Like really cheesy. Seriously, the only downside to taking these that I can see is that this unit, using its execution barrage, against pretty much any infantry unit without a 2+ save, (some 70-80% percent of units in the game) is utterly and completely overkill. Rules as written, a squad of 10 of these costs 215 points, has infiltrate and stealth, can get feel no pain, and once per game can put out 400! S4 AP3 shots with Shred!. Come to think of it, I am reasonably certain that 400 S4 shots, even at BS3, could reliably kill a squad of 10 units with rerollable 2+ armor and a 3+ feel no pain. I have to go to bed right now, so I am not going to give detailed suggestions on how to fix this, but a good first step would be to nerf their guns + executioners barrage. TL;DR: While the concept and basic idea is cool, anything that can one shot a wraithknight with room to spare in one volley is way too powerful. Tone it down a bit, then come back. Also, a good rule of thumb is that if the number of shots exceeds the number of dice at your average table by a factor of 3, then it will be a pain to roll. --Urist (talk) 21:27, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

10 rangers shoot 160 times (4 shots normal, x4 with Execution Barrage, amkes 16 shots per ranger, x10 = 160), still fuckin' bullshit though, I'm just a stickler for maths. Maybe change it to — Spray and Pray: The Black Rifles of the Dalanthian Squats have one special trick up their sleeves. By intentionally removing the power limiter than controls the weapons firing rate these guns may spit death and hellfire at such a rate as to make Orks green(er) with envy. This does however have the unfortunate side effect of heating the guns to beyond their safety tolerances and several Dalantian Rangers have lost their lives when the power packs violently detonate under the strain. A model with this special rule may make two ranged attacks with one weapon they have, this weapon gains the Gets Hot! USR until the beginning of their next movement phase The Greater Meh (talk) 23:12, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

That still leaves the issue that all those shots will be AP3 with shred, meaning that this could easily wipe out a 20 man CSM squad in one volley. You should probably make the black rifles Salvo 2/4 rather than Assault 4.

--Urist (talk) 08:10, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

That's a pretty good fix, either that or turn them into Heavy 4, it makes moving them around much more of a problem, either cutting down range and firing rate, or forcing them to snap-fire The Greater Meh (talk) 09:03, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

OK, the part with the Executioner Barrage...yeah, it seems I made something that would've murdered a Carnifex on the spot. So let us take this Spray and Pray rule since it's much less cheese. Also I'll modify the Silent Movement to make it so that they have Infiltrate and Scout on the first turn they are deployed. The whole thing with the Black Rifles being Assault instead of Salvo like the Hot-Shot Volley Gun is that they are supposed to be superior to the latter. Maybe I should turn it into depending on stance. When moving, the Black Rifles become Assault 2, but when in place they become Heavy 4. How's that? - Ben (talk) 14:56, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

OK, done. Also changed their name to get that Gondor feel too. Now for another unit... - Ben (talk) 18:28, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

I don't like these. For ordinary humans, their power is absurd and the Black Rifles look like something the Munitorum would swiftly get ahold of and have disseminated throughout the Imperium. I would prefer if humans working with the League of Norgyr are represented with the allies rules instead.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 23:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

OK, I see yer point...points actually. I can go and fix this. I wanted something akin to Tempestus Scions/Stormtroopers mixed with Men of Dale and Gondor Rangers/Dunedai (especially the former since Tolkien Dwarfs were quite the buddies with the Men of Dale), yet with more visible personalities and which could at least crack a joke once in a while. Wanted to fluff them out as survivors of a civil war that not only destroyed their homeworld but also technologically regressed them to the point that they became badass survivalists and ambushers (due to living on a deathworld that their world became after the civil war). Norgyr finds them and see that there are some similarities between them in terms of character, so they become over time best buds (and the Dalathans also hope that they'd return to their glory days). Kinda works out, and the badass survivalists/ambushers become also pretty disciplined soldiers that work with Norgyr, but also would work with the rest of the Imperium...And if it goes for the Black Rifles, then the Squats would put in such scary stuff like explosives that would trigger if you even tried to safely disarm them, genetic grips that only the wielder can use and more safety measures that would discourage the Munitorum from even thinking about getting their hands on these little babies. Also forgot to reduce the Rangers' W's to 1. And if that's unsatisfying, then I can go and change them even more. Starting with the Rifles to be like Hot-Shot Volley Lasguns, but with Shred. And if that's not enough, I'll change it further. So for now they are simply Scions/Troopers with extra rules. - Ben (talk) 20:59, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Are these good to be added?--Tw6464 (talk) 22:25, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Armorgryns and Mounted Ratling Gunners

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Points Cost - 165

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Armorgryn with Ratling Gunner	4	4	5	5	3	2	3	6	4+
Bone'ead with Ratling Commander	4	4	5	5	3	2	4	7	4+

Unit Composition: 2 Armorgryns with Ratling Gunners, 1 Armorgryn Bone'ead with Ratling Commander

Unit Type: Infantry (Bone'ead with Ratling Commander are Characters)

Special Rules:

• Stubborn
• League Affiliation (Norgyr)
• Hammer of Wrath
• Very Bulky

Wargear:

• Carapace Armour
• Frag Grenades
• Krak Grenades
• Boarding Shields
• Auto-Shot Rifle
• Power Pick

Options:

• You can add up to 3 Armorgryns with Ratling Gunners to the squad (55pts each).
• Any Armorgryn can exchange his Power Pick and Boarding Shield for a:
  • Heavy Chainaxe (10pts each)
  • Macro Hammer (10pts each)
• Any Armorgryn Bone'ead can exchange his Power Pick for a:
  • Power Weapon (free)
  • Power Fist (10pts each)
• Up to two Ratling Gunners can swap their Auto-Shot Rifle for a:
  • Fusion Projectors (free)
  • Seismic Rifle (5pts)
  • Ion Rifle (10pts)
  • Coil Repeater (10pts)
• The squad may take a Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport.

OK, done. Hoping it's not too OP like in the case of the previous unit. - Ben (talk) 19:58, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Man, I thought this Idea wouldn't get anywhere. Nice work Ben!--Tw6464 (talk) 22:23, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Tw6464. AND NOW THE FINAL UNIT.

I'm guessing that the Ratling Gunners are supposed to be on the backs of the Armorgryns. To avoid confusion, I've combined their profiles, the Ratling is so weak compared to the Ogryn that I figured that he wouldn't add an additional wound or attack to the Armorgryn. I've standardized their equipment as well and replaced Inertial Hammers with Macro Hammers. Maybe instead of Iridium Armor, they should wear Carapace armor with Iridium being an expensive upgrade. I originally wanted one of Norgyrs unique units to simply be Ratling snipers but this is certainly interesting.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 23:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Well I was thinking about something more non-standard. Good you like it. - Ben (talk) 20:59, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Hearthlord

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Points Cost - 480

Name	BS	F	S	R	HP
Hearthlord	3	14	13	12	9

Unit Composition: 1 Heartlord

Unit Type: Vehicle (Super-heavy Vehicle, Transport)

Special Rules:

• All Power To Weapons!: If the Heartlord does not move, it may fire its turret-mounted weapon twice in the following Shooting phase (at the same target or at different ones).
• Assault Vehicle

Transport Capacity: Forty models.

Fire Points: Twenty models can fire from the troop bay.

Access Points: The Heartlord is treated as Open-topped for embarking and disembarking purposes. The +1 damage modifier for Open-topped vehicles does not apply to a Heartlord.

Wargear:

• Heavy Rotary Shot Cannon (Turret)
• Two Shot Cannons
• Twin-linked Shot Cannon

Options:

• May add up to two pairs of side sponsons, each with one Coil Cannon and one twin-linked Shot Cannon (50pts each)
• May replace any twin-linked Shot Cannon with a twin-linked Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
• May take items from the Vehicle Wargear list.

The answer to the Stormlord and even more powerful. Only the upgrage costs stop it from uttering "I HAVE BECOME DEATH, DESTROYER OF TARPITS, DEATH STARS AND DISTRACTION CARNIFEXES". - Ben (talk) 17:16, 8 April 2017 (UTC) Gave it a nerf. AV 15 is reserved for buildings.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 23:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Hearthlord

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Points Cost - 520

Name	BS	F	S	R	HP
Hearthlord	3	14	13	12	9

Unit Composition: 1 Heartlord

Unit Type: Vehicle (Super-heavy Vehicle)

Wargear:

• Heavy Rotary Shot Cannon (Turret)
• Rotary Shot Cannon
• Twin-linked Shot Cannon

Options:

• May replace Heavy Rotary Shot Cannon with a:
  • Turbo-Laser Destructor (free)
  • Twin-linked Super-Heavy Coil Cannon (free)
  • Super-Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
  • Long-Barrelled Ion Cannon (free)
  • Sonic Lance (free)
• May exchange the Rotary Shot Cannon for one of the following:
  • Rapier Destroyer (10pts)
  • Clearance Fusion Projector (10pts)
  • Heavy Seismic Cannon (15pts)
  • Ion Cannon (20pts)
  • Heavy Coil Cannon (25pts)
• May add up to two pairs of side sponsons, each with one Coil Cannon and one twin-linked Shot Cannon (50pts each)
• May replace any twin-linked Shot Cannon with a twin-linked Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
• May take items from the Vehicle Wargear list.

My version. The epic rules for the Hearthlord didn't give it any transport capacity so I've made it function like the original Baneblade/Hellhammer.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 23:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh well, your idea is good too. - Ben (talk) 20:59, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Ministorum Priest

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Points Cost - 50

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv	Unit Type	Composition
Ministorum Priest	4	3	3	4	2	2	2	9	5+	Infantry (Character)

Special Rules:

• League Affiliation (Norgyr)
• Adamantium Will
• Independent Character
• Zealot
• War Hymns: The Preacher can take a Leadership test at the beginning of each fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat. If the test is successful, choose one of the following War Hymns to take effect:
  • The Emperor Protects: He and his unit re-roll all failed armour and invulnerable saves until the end of the phase.
  • The Emperor’s Strength: The Priest has the Smash special rule until the end of the phase.
  • The Righteousness of the Emperor: The Priest and his unit re-roll all failed rolls To Wound until the end of the phase.

Wargear:

• Flak Armour
• Shot pistol
• CCW
• Frag Grenades
• Krak Grenades
• Rosarius (Forcefield)

Options: May take items from the Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons or Special Weapons lists.

One of my suggestions. Since the ability to gain Hatred was removed from Norgyr, I've added a Squat Ministorum Priest to compensate.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 23:45, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

You know what? We should expand the number of unique units to 4 for all Leagues. - Ben (talk) 20:59, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Thor Unique Units

None at the moment. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

We could do something that would go the line of them being show-offs (Colossi with QUAD-LINKED FUSION CANNONS!). - Ben (talk) 15:35, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

I was thinking that maybe there could be units of Rangers (perhaps they're inspired by Boltsman Joseph) and Longbeards. I mean, they're the keepers of the traditional Squat ways, so honestly they could have a few grumpy guys complaining about "the damn beardlings, disrespectin' the old ways"--Tw6464 (talk) 17:00, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

So something like this? The Greater Meh (talk) 23:18, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

I propose since League of Thor likes to show off, how about a squad of squat Hearthguard with Iridium Armor and master crafted weapons --Urist (talk) 10:13, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Thor Longbeards

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Points Cost - 90

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Ranger	4	4	3	4	1	2	2	9	4+
Longbeard	4	4	3	4	1	2	2	10	4+

Unit Composition: 4 Rangers, 1 Ranger Longbeard

Unit Type: Infantry (Longbeard is a Character)

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Hardy Souls for Hardy Men
• League Affiliation (Thor)
• Scouts

Wargear: Carapace Armour, Slug Rifle, Shot Pistol, Boarding Shield, Chameleon Cloak, Survey Glass

Slug Rifle || 36" || S:X || AP5 || Heavy 1, Sniper

The Slug Rifle is a modified Shot Rifle, designed with a longer barrel and heavier stock this gun fires solid slugs designed to take advantage of its design, rather the ubquitous high density buckshot that most Squat infantry weapons use. While being far more expensive and time consuming to make than regular weapons and ammunition, and having a lower reliability in wounding their opponents, the payoff is well worth it to the League of Thor as the solid slug rounds are not only longer ranged, but also have a much increased chance of penetrating armour and a well placed shot can even pierce straight through an enemy's vital organs. 

Options: (WIP)

• May add up to seven additional Rangers for 16 points/model

No Shred, Shred is there on the Shot Rifles because what it is, is a reflection the Buckshot creating a lot of small, but separate wounds. This is one big punch which is why it's got Higher AP, Range, Recoil (Heavy 1), and an even/odds chance to wound anything that isn't a Vehicle or Gargantuan. The Greater Meh (talk) 15:00, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Thor Gugnir Heavy Artillery

Points Cost - 120

Name	BS	FAV	SAV	RAV	HP
Gugnir Heavy Artillery	4	13	11	10	4

Unit Composition: 1 Gugnir Heavy Tank

Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank, Heavy)

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Hardy Souls for Hardy Men
• League Affiliation (Thor)
• Anchor Points: A vehicle with this special may anchor itself to the ground with a series of advanced gyro-stabilisers, or release any anchors it has already placed. This is an action that consumes the vehicles movement phase, and prevents it from moving so long as it is anchored. While anchored all Thudd Guns and Ion Annihilators gain the Twin-Linked special rule and may be fired normally regardless of the use of Ordnance weapons. Should an anchored vehicle be rammed or tank shocked by a non super-heavy vehicle, both vehicles suffer an automatic glancing hit before the result of the ram attack are known, if the ramming vehicle is a super-heavy the anchored vehicle is instead immediately destroyed.

Wargear: 4 Thudd Guns

Options:

• May replace two Thudd Guns with an Ion Annihilator (this may be done multiple times)
• May take a hull mounted:
  • Shot cannon (10pts)
  • Heavy Fusion Projector (10pts)
  • Gravitic Impeller (15pts)
  • Twin-linked Ion Rifle (20pts)
  • Coil Cannons (20pts)
  • Seismic Cannon (20pts)
• May take items from the Vehicle Wargear list.

This is odd. The idea behind Kapellar is that they like to use a lot of advanced equipment but this particular vehicle isn't that advanced compared to a lot of Squat counterparts and I would argue inferior. Say we make it a Heavy Artillery Piece instead. It mounts either 4 Thudd Guns, 1 Ion Annihilator and 2 Thudd Guns or 2 Ion Annihilators. When it hunkers down, its Thudd Guns/Ion Annihilators become Twin-linked and can all target different units. Make it so that it only has a single profile as well. I don't see how anchoring itself will make it more resilient. I would say make it AV F13 S11 which is slightly tougher than the Retributor.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:30, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

So this? (Name change is for reasons) The Greater Meh (talk) 17:57, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

The Changes in S/RAV were due to what I imagined would be a bunch of loose or unconnected mechanisms shifting down and locking around the hull to support it from recoil and other forces that would be stronger on a set vehicle. For some reason I remember it working that way in Starcraft I, or C7C RA3

Albatross Gyrocopter

"You go to war in this thing? What kind of ponce combines a machine of war with a luxury craft?"

From the outside, the Albatross Gyrocopter looks like a typical war machine, on the scale of the Storm Eagle gunship used by the Adeptus Astartes of the Imperium. From the inside, one would believe themselves to be inside a luxury craft, with plush carpets, an aerial corrections system that ensures a smooth ride in even the most turbulent conditions, grox leather seats, a granite table, a corner devoted to storing ample gourmet food and beer and other luxuries fitting the tastes of the owner. The truth is that the Albatross was built to be able to perform both of these roles, ferrying important people in times of peace and rapidly transporting and deploying Warlords and their Hearthguard or Exo-Warriors in times of war.

The Albatross has been poorly received by the other leagues with few individuals wishing to get ahold of the plans to build their own. It is considered a symbol of the decadence of Thor, even by some of the Longbeards within the league. Though many of the luxuries such as the granite table get removed during times of war for the sake of simple practicality, the image of a decadent neidermeyer who wishes to sit in the lap of luxury while his fellow Squats die around him has been permanently embedded into the psyche of all who are not Thor.

Battlefield Role - Heavy Support
Points Cost - 190

	BS	HP	Front Armour	Side Armour	Back Armour	Unit Type	Composition	Combat Role	Pursuit	Agility
Albatross Gyrocopter	3	4	12	12	12	Vehicle (Flier, Hover)	1 Albatross Gyrocopter	Attack Flyer	3	2

Unit Composition: 1 Albatross Heavy Gyrocopter

Unit Type: Vehicle (Flier, Hover)

Transport Capacity: 20 Models

Access Points: Rear Ramp

Special Rules:

• Assault Vehicle
• Power of the Machine Spirit
• Vector Dancer

Wargear:

• Rotary Shot Cannon (Hull Mounted)
• Twin-linked Shot Cannon (Nose Mounted)

Options:

• May exchange the Rotary Shot Cannon with one of the following:
  • Rotary Slug Cannon (free)
  • Rapier Destroyer (10pts)
  • Ion Cannon (20pts)
  • Heavy Coil Cannon (25pts)
• May exchange either of the Twin-linked Shot Cannons for a:
  • Twin-linked Slug Cannon (free)
  • Cyclone Missile Launcher (25pts)
• May take one of the following options:
  • 4 Hunter-Killer Missiles (40pts)
  • Two Twin-linked Coil Cannons (60pts)
• May choose equipment from the Aircraft Armory list.

I think that this could be a Squat version of the Stormraven, looking like a war airship from the outside but a luxury craft on the inside with the fluff saying that many Squats consider the Albatross to be the symbol of Thor decadence. Either that or create and HQ chariot called 'The Oathstone', the Squat version of the Catacomb Command Barge as Thor's third unique unit.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 19:49, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

That sounds like some good fluff, and I was planning on pairing this off against a really light gyro-wing craft for Grindel (Thrush Gyrowing), but I stalled out on the Thrush's weapons. If you think you could complete this as some kind of luxury dropship I'll try to finish the Thrush. The Greater Meh (talk) 20:09, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Should I base it around the Stormraven or the Storm Eagle?--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 15:56, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Taken a look, Storm Eagle, Fire Raptor pattern, with cut-down transport space, 6 models sounds good for a warlord and Hearthguard squad, lets make this thing extravagent. The Greater Meh (talk) 17:18, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Done. I suppose 'The Oathstone' goes to Grindel. Though it's a luxury craft, I think that Thor would at least have the good sense to remove things like the table and keg when sending it off to war, which is why it still has a normal transport capacity.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:19, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Kapellar Unique Units

Once again nothing at the moment, however advanced tech walkers, or something similar to the Scitarii tanks might be a way to go. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Maybe a 4-legged walker unit with multiple guns and a special version of Iron Brother Walkers that can repair both themselves and all the vehicles. - Ben (talk) 15:35, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

These guys are all about technology aren't they? How's some Squat robots of some sorts? Do the Squats use AI or is it possible to have some kind of cybernetic mind uploading? If they're about collecting data too, I'm thinking of something used to capture samples & maybe even enemies to dissect. --Super12345 (talk) 02:11, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

NAH. Even they don't like AI. - Ben (talk) 11:46, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Had an idea for Kapellar units after playing some Red Alert 2. - Ben (talk) 13:37, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

It's pretty funky, althogh I might suggest toning down the Tesla Cannon to something more along the lines of R30", S:5, AP3, Heavy 1+1d3, Haywire, Shock Target. Higher rate of fire, rather than a Blast template. Maybe rename "Shock Target" to "Electric Convulsions", sounds a little more evocative. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:16, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

OK then. Renamed "Shock Target" to "Convulsive Shock". Also nerfed the "Electric Discharge" to AP3. - Ben (talk) 23:06, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Tesla Exo-Warriors

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Points Cost - 125

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Tesla Exo-Warrior	4	4	3	4	1	2	2	9	2+/4++
Thunderbolt Warden	4	4	3	4	1	2	3	10	2+/4++

Unit Composition: 2 Tesla Warriors, 1 Thunderbolt Warden

Unit Type: Infantry (Thunderbolt Warden is a Character)

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Hardy Souls for Hardy Men
• League Affiliation (Kapellar)

Wargear:

• Tesla Exo-Armour: Counts as Exo-Armour, but adds a -1S modifier in the shooting phase to the enemies that are targeting the model with this suit (thus a S5 weapon becomes S4). In a addition, if the model is reduced to 0 wounds, then all units in 6" around the model get hit by a violent electric discharge (S5, AP3). This discharge does not affect a models that wear Tesla Exo-Armours themselves.

Wargear (Tesla Exo-Warrior): Tesla Gun, Tesla Exo-Armour

Wargear (Thunderbolt Warden): Tesla Cannon, Tesla Exo-Armour

Tesla Fusil    || 18" || S5 || AP3 || Heavy 1, Haywire, Convulsive Shock, Get's Hot!
Tesla Cannon   || 30" || S5 || AP3 || Heavy 3, Haywire, Convulsive Shock, Get's Hot!

Convulsive Shock: Any model that suffers a wound from a weapon with this special rule and is not removed as a casulty must, at the end of the shooting phase, make a Toughness Test. If this test is failed that model may not make any non-compulsory moves until the end of their next assault phase and may only fire snap-shots.

Options:

• You can add up to 7 Tesla Exo-Warriors to the squad (35pts each)
• Any model may take Overdrive Systems (5pts each)
• Any model may take items from the Exo-Warrior Melee Weapons list.
• The squad may take a Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport.

This unit looks pretty interesting. Perhaps make an upgrade for the Exo-Warriors who take League Affiliation(Kapellar)?--Tw6464 (talk) 16:57, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Too cheap. 35pts for these is a steal. I would suggest nerfing the Tesla Fusil to 24" S4 AP4 and remove Convulsive Shock since I'm under the impression that a shock that would damage the nervous system enough to render someone immobile will also kill them. I don't see how the special Exo-Armour would reduce the strength of attacks. It would be more plausible for it to allow a discharge that in close combat that causes S2 Haywire hits and a 2++ invulnerable save against attacks with the Haywire rule. I would remove the Tesla Cannon as well or make it an upgrade up to four models can take.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 04:19, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

I just noticed something that may made my claim that it's undercosted premature. These do not have a Power Weapon unlike other suits. Is that intentional? If so, these would be a good Heavy Support, able to electrocute to death most units they target but be vulnerable to getting bogged down in melee or killed if they get caught. I still think Convulsive Shock should be removed however.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 18:37, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

But it's not damaging the nervous system, it's interfering with the bio-electric signals that cause muscles to expand and contract. Like a tazer. A tazer will immobilize someone without killing them. The Greater Meh (talk) 21:43, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Except the difference between a taser and an electric weapon is voltage and amperage. Taser's deliberately have a low voltage and amperage in order to avoid killing the target which surely would not be the case with Tesla weapons. Keep in mind that the heart is a muscle and if a charge gets to it, it could end up fibrillating. Getting hit by a Tesla weapon is not like getting hit by a taser, it's like touching a downed power line or getting struck by lightning.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 02:12, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Cleaned the rule up a little, for one it specifies a model that suffers a wound without being removed as a casulty, which pretty much restricts it to monstrous creatures and multi-wound HQ's, and two it also enforces snap shots on the affected model. Hopefully this should make it "cleaner" as a rule. The Greater Meh (talk) 01:25, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

So is this ready to be added to main codex?--Tw6464 (talk) 21:59, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps one of Kapellars unique units could be a Squat version of the Tech-Priest Dominus. They would have Feel No Pain proper, an Augury Scanner, a Nuncio Vox and a Scryerskull. All of those equipment would have different names of course.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 04:19, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

I don't understand why we don't just give the Tesla weapons the Tesla special rule from the Necron Codex. I suggest the following profile:

Tesla Fusil || 18" || S5 || AP- || Heavy 2, Tesla

Tesla Cannon || 30" || S5 || AP- || Heavy 3, Tesla

--Urist (talk) 07:47, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Really wouldn't make sense if the Squats inexplicably had Necron Technology--Tw6464 (talk) 21:59, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Battlefield Role - Heavy Support

Points Cost - 125

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Tesla Exo-Warrior	4	4	3	4	1	2	2	9	2+/4++
Thunderbolt Warden	4	4	3	4	1	2	2	10	2+/4++

Unit Composition: 2 Tesla Warriors, 1 Thunderbolt Warden

Unit Type: Infantry (Thunderbolt Warden is a Character)

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Hardy Souls for Hardy Men
• League Affiliation (Kapellar)

Wargear:

• Tesla Exo-Armour: Attacks with the Haywire special rule only wound a model in Tesla Exo-Armour on a To Wound roll of 6+. In addition, Tesla Fusils and Tesla Cannons do not have the Get's Hot! special rule when wielded by a model wearing Tesla Exo-Armour.
• Tesla Fusil

Options:

• You can add up to 7 Tesla Exo-Warriors to the squad (35pts each)
• Any model may take Overdrive Systems (5pts each)
• Up to four Tesla Exo-Warrior may replace their Tesla Fusil with a Tesla Cannon (15pts each)
• The squad may take a Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport.

Okay, here is my version of the Tesla Warriors. They are a Heavy Support choice with no melee weapons which justifies it costing 5 points more than a regular Exo-Warrior yet having a far more powerful main weapon. Tesla Exo-Armour is meant to allow them to use the Tesla weapons safely, which I think should be added to what assorted units can use as a Heavy Weapon.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:09, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Engineer Lord

Points Cost - 110

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv	Unit Type	Composition
Engineer Lord	5	4	3	4	3	3	3	10	5+	Infantry (Character)

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Hardy Souls for Hardy Men
• Independent Character
• League Affiliation
• Battlesmith
• Master of Calculations

Wargear:

• Flak Armour
• Shot Pistol
• CCW
• Frag Grenades
• Krak Grenades
• Augury Scanner: Models cannot be deployed using the Infiltrate special rules within 18" of the Engineer Lord. Enemy models deploying via Deep Strike within this range by the Engineer Lord and his unit as if their Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons had the Interceptor special rule. In addition, at the start of each of your turns, the Engineer Lord can identify a Mysterious Objective anywhere on the battlefield.
• Nuncio-Vox: Allied models Deep Striking within 6" of the Engineer Lord do not scatter. When barrage weapons are used by the controlling player, line of sight may be drawn from the Engineer Lord as well as the firing model itself (range is still drawn from the firing model). The Engineer Lord must already be on the table at the start of the turn and must not be embarked in a vehicle to use it.

Options:

• May select items from the Special Issue Wargear or Tech Relics lists in the armoury at the points cost indicated.
• May replace his Flak Armour, Shot Pistol, CCW, Frag Grenades and Krak Grenades with Squat Exo-Armour, an Auto-shot rifle and a power weapon (40pts)
• If not wearing Exo-Armour then the Guild Engineer may select items from the Melee Weapons, Special Weapons or Ranged Weapons lists.
• If not riding a Bike then the Guild Engineer may select items from the Heavy Weapons list.
• If wearing Exo-Armour then the Guild Engineer may select items from the Exo-Suit Ranged Weapons and Exo-Armour Melee Weapons list.
• May take one of the following:
  • Servo-Arm (30pts)
  • Servo Harness (55pts)

The Squat version of the Tech-Priest Dominus. Better stats but that isn't why he would be used, its his support abilities that are most valuable. Anyway, for Kapellar, I favor this, the Myrkalfr APV and the Tesla Warriors as their unique units. The Gungnir could be ported over to Thor because a good way to show-off is to stuff an entire artillery battery onto a single vehicle.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 07:12, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Alright, it looks good so far. We should start porting over the ones that are pretty much completed to the main Codex Page--Tw6464 (talk) 22:01, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Kapellar Myrkalfr Support Vehicle

This idea literally flew into my head as I was putting in the suggested alteration to the Gugnir above, just took me a little bit of time to come up with a good name. Myrkalfar is another name for the Svartalfar, or Dark Elves/Dwarves of nordic mythology. Options and Wargear need fleshing out. The Greater Meh (talk) 22:07, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Points Cost - 100

Name	BS	FAV	SAV	RAV	HP
Myrkalfr Support Vehicle	3	12	10	10	3

Unit Composition: 1 Myrkalfr Support Vehicle

Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank)

Special Rules: League Affiliation (Kapellar)

Wargear:

• Turret Mounted Shot Cannon
• Hull Mounted Shot Cannon
• Myrk Generator: The Myrkalfr and all models within 12" have the Shrouded special rule.
• Auspex Surveyor: The Auspex Surveyor has the Night Vision special rule. During the shooting phase, the Myrkalfr may choose an enemy unit within 24". That unit suffers a -1 penalty to all cover saves.

Options:

• The Turret-Mounted Shot Cannon may be replaced with a:
  • Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
  • Missile Launcher with Krak & Mole warheads (+5pts)
    • May take Flakk Missiles (+10pts)
  • Twin-linked Ion Rifle (+10pts)
  • Coil Cannon (+10pts)
  • Seismic Cannon (+10pts)
• The Hull-Mounted Shot Cannon may be replaced with a:
  • Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
  • Twin-linked Ion Rifle (+10pts)
  • Coil Cannon (+10pts)
  • Seismic Cannon (+10pts)
• May take items from the Vehicle Wargear list.

I added weapon options to it and adjusted the Myrkalfr to be a more support-oriented vehicle. Perhaps make it either an HQ or Elites choice.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 06:22, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

I want to ask, what was wrong with the Myrkalfrheim Engine? Without it the Myrkalfr is hardly an All-Purpose vehicle, because it can't easily slot into whatever job it is currently needed to do. Recon, Defence, Support, or Offence. So name change and a question The Greater Meh (talk) 09:20, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

You're right about that. The thing is, it wasn't that good at any of the roles (with the exception of Support). Recon is covered by units with either Scout or Infiltrate, not Fast vehicles since the player can see everything on the field. The 4++ invulnerable save granted by the Engine isn't that useful since the vehicle already had Stealth and Shrouded so the invulnerable save would only help against attacks that ignore cover or reduce cover saves. There are plenty of vehicles that are better at offence than the Myrkalfrheim could ever be due to possessing more weapons that are heavier. As a purely support vehicle, the Myrkalfrheim has an obvious role. I'm leaning towards it being an elite choice.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 15:48, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Grindel Unique Units

Was thinking the Rad Troops idea could fit in here, play it that the other Leagues accidentally iradiated the Grindel hold-planet due to politics between Grindel and Thor. Make them an Elites choice. Will put down more soon. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Seems sweet. Add to this Phosphorex weapons and we have Squat versions of Legion Destroyers. - Ben (talk) 15:35, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Basic Template to play around with, but the idea is that these guys are the Specialist Hearthguards of Grindel, they tote around Short Carbines that shoot rods that have been heavily irradiated so that their targets can suffer the exact same fate that their ancestors suffered when Grindel was Rad bombed. They can't take Bikes as they simply do not have the resources to do so. Costing out against their base weapons will be interesting though The Greater Meh (talk) 19:39, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Rod Rifle      || R 18" || S:3 || AP- || Assault 1, Poisoned (3+), Irradiating Ammo
Rod Carbine    || R 12" || S:3 || AP- || Assault 2, Poisoned (3+), Irradiating Ammo
Rod Long Rifle || R 36" || S:- || AP5 || Heavy 1, Poisoned (3+), Irradiating Ammo, Sniper
Rod Cannon     || R 48" || S:4 || AP3 || Heavy 1, Poisoned (3+), Irradiating Ammo, Blast

• Irradiating Ammo: At the end of any phase any unit that suffered one or more wounds from these weapons must make a Toughness test. On a failed test the unit's toughness is treated as 1 lower for the rest of the game. This penalty is cumulative.

Vulcan Grenade || R 8"  || S:5 || AP2 || Assault 1, Blast, Poisoned (3+) Crawling Fire, Lingering Death, One Use Only
Vulcan Shell   || R 36" || S:5 || AP2 || Ordnance 1, Large Blast, Poisoned (3+), Crawling Fire, Lingering Death
Vulcan Eruptor || R 24" || S:5 || AP2 || Assault 1, Blast, Crawling Fire, Lingering Death, One Use Only
Vulcan Bomb    || R -   || S:5 || AP2 || Bomb 1, Blast, Crawling Fire, Lingering Death, Deadly Cargo, One Use Only

None of these function like Radiation or Phosphex weapons. Why would the Rod variants be AP2? If they are irradiated shot then they should be unable to penetrate armor like the rest of the shot weapons. AP 2 should be exclusive to the Vulcan weapons. Vulcan weapons should also be limited. They are relics and special weapons in every iteration for good reason. I know that people want to make things distinct but it should still behave in a similar manner to canon examples. The only other non-blast Phosphex weapon in the game multiplies every hit into 3 by the way.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 23:49, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Maybe make the Berserkers a unit unique to Grindel since they're the league that has suffered the most hardship.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 18:29, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I like this idea of make the Berserkers unique to Grindel. Maybe we could add a unit that is similar to a Slayer Character from Fantasy? Someone who has dishonored themselves so much that they would rather die slaying a mighty beast to restore their honor--Tw6464 (talk) 22:04, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I've removed Get's Hot! from the Rod weapons. Since they are simply Shot Weapons using a different type of ammo I see no reason why it would be immediately dangerous to the user. The fact that using Rod ammunition will eventually kill the user should be resigned to the fluff just like with Radium weapons of the Skitarii.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Rad Troopers

"This is a heavy duty. For your sake I hope you wash-out." - Unnamed Vengeance Bringer to a potential Rad Trooper.

During the bitter wars between the various Squat holds, Grindel was rad-bombed into a blasted oblivion. Squats have long, bitter memories and some are spiteful enough to use weapons that will eventually kill them in order to visit the same suffering on their foes. hence the formation of the Rad Troopers, a unique unit of young and fanatical Squats who have grown up on stories of the hardship that Grindel has suffered. Squats of any renown are barred from this unit, being told that they are better off putting any skills they have to other uses while any Vengeance Bringer that is present is one that has miraculously survived a long time in the unit. The life of a Rad Trooper is one of suffering, the weapons they wield will eventually kill them and the rest of Squat society shuns them, treating them as leppers.

Battlefield Role - Elites

Points Cost - 90 points

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Rad Trooper	4	3	3	4	1	2	1	9	4+
Vengeance Bringer	4	3	3	4	1	2	2	10	4+

Unit Composition: 5 Rad Troopers

Unit Type: Infantry (Vengeance Bringer is a Character)

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Hardy Souls for Hardy Men
• League Affiliation (Grindel)
• Stubborn
• Self-Destructive: Independent Characters cannot join a unit of Rad Troopers.

Wargear:

• Rod Carbine
• Shot Pistol
• Carapace Armour
• Frag Grenades
• Krak Grenades

Options:

• You can add up to 5 Rad Troopers to the squad (18pts each)
• Any model may replace their Rod Carbine with a:
  • Rod Rifle (free)
  • Rod Long Rifle (5pts)
• Up to four models may replace their Rod Carbine with a Rod Cannon (20pts)
• The entire squad may be upgraded with:
  • Chameleon Cloaks (2pts each)
  • Combat Shields (3pts each)
  • Boarding Shields (5pts each)
• One Rad Trooper may be upgraded to a Vengeance Bringer (10pts)
• A Vengeance Bringer may take items from the Melee Weapons list.
• A Veteran may take Melta Bombs (5pts)
• A Veteran may purchase up to three Vulcan Grenades (10pts each)
• May take a Rhino as a Dedicated Transport.

Edited it. Rather than the Vengeance Bringer having the better weapon, I've made it an option for the whole squad while up to four models can take a Rod Cannon just like the rest of the codex.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Grindel Oathstone Chariot

Battlefield Role - Headquarters. May be taken as a Dedicated Transport for a Warlord.
Points Cost - 30

Name	BS	FAV	SAV	RAV	HP
Oathstone	4	11	11	11	3

Unit Composition: 1 Oathstone

Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Open-Topped, Transport, Chariot)

Special Rules:

• The Oathstone: All friendly Squat units within 12" of the Oathstone have the Stubborn special rule.

Wargear: Shot Cannon

Transport Capacity: 1 Model

Options:

• May replace Shot Cannon with a:
  • Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
  • Missile Launcher with Krak & Mole warheads (+5pts)
    • May take Flakk Missiles (+10pts)
  • Twin-linked Ion Rifle (+10pts)
  • Coil Cannon (+10pts)
  • Seismic Cannon (+10pts)

Grindel Thrush Light Gyrocopter - Fast Attack 60 points

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Name	BS	HP	FAV	SAV	RAV	Pursuit	Agility
Thrush Light Gyrocopter	3	2	10	10	10	2	4

Unit Composition: 1 Thrush Light Gyrocopter

Unit Type: Vehicle, Flier, Hover

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Vector Dancer
• League Affiliation (Grindel)

Wargear: Twin-Linked Auto-Shot Rifle (Nose Mounted), 1 Vulcan Bomb

Options:

• May squadron this model in units of up to three (60pts/model)
• May replace Nose Mounted Twin-Linked Auto-Shot rifle with a Twin-Linked ---

• Ion rifle
• Coil Repeater
• Squat Missile Launcher
• Rod Rifle

• Any model may take options from the Aircraft Armoury list

Battlefield Role - Fast Attack

Points Cost - 30 points

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Thrush Gyrocopter	4	3	3	5	2	2	2	9	4+

Unit Composition: 1 Thrush Gyrocoptor

Unit Type: Jetbikes

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Hardy Souls for Hardy Men
• League Affiliation (Grindel)
• Scouts
• Hit and Run

Wargear: Twin-linked Shot Cannon

Options:

• May add up to two additional Thrush Gyrocopters (30pts each)
• May replace Twin-linked Shot Cannon with a:
  • Twin-linked Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
  • Twin-linked Missile Launcher with Mole and Krak Warheads (5pts)
    • May also take Flak Missiles (10pts)
  • Twin-linked Coil Cannon (10pts)
  • Twin-linked Seismic Cannon (10pts)
• May take one of the following:
  • Tactical Bomb (15pts)
  • Rock Saw (30pts)

My take on the Thrush Gyrocopter. Presumably, the Gyrocopter is meant to be a spammable flyer in contrast to the single model unit Eagle Gyrocopter but with Burning Skies, it becomes redundant. Making the Gyrocopter serve in a similar manner to Ork Deffkopta would be a way to make it truly unique to Grindel.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 20:06, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

I'd kinda considered it to be another example of Grindel's extreme self-destructiveness, essentially being nothing more than scrap welded suicidal bomb delivery systems. They could get anywhere on the battlefield when they came in (I believe Fliers had Scouts & Outflank by default in 7th), but not really expecting to stick around for any real amount of time. The Vulcan Bomb and Nose weapons actually costing more than the vehicle themselves. The Greater Meh (talk) 19:56, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

Flyers don't have Scout or Outflank by default in 7th Edition, where are you getting your knowledge of the rules? Though I suppose my version still fits being an example of extreme self-destructiveness since it involves flying around in a tiny death-trap with either a bomb the same size as the vehicle strapped to the bottom or attempting to shred the opponent with the bottom-mounted rock saw and risking getting caught on something and crashing. Just like the Deffkopta it is based on.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 02:26, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Demiurg Unique Units

Drop-Skimmers seem like the way to go here, and I've got some names brewing in my head. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

• Rock-Hopper Transport (light asteroid-mining transport based off of a retrofitted Devilfish Chassis)
• Avalanche Breaker (Heavy Tank skimmer originally used for breaking down comets that were too small for any actual ships to bother with but too large to process as they were. Brings a Twin-linked Main cannon to the fray alongside two front mounted light weapons, but is otherwise slow for a skimmer)

Rock-Hopper Grav Transport

Points - 80

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Name	BS	FAV	SAV	RAV	HP
Rock-Hopper Grav Transport	3	12	11	10	3

Unit Composition: 1 Demiurg Grav Transport

Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Tank)

Transport Capacity: 12 Models. May not carry models with the Bulky, Very Bulky or Extremely Bulky special rules.

Access Points: Rear.

Fire Ports: None

Wargear: Turret-Mounted Shot Cannon

Special Rules:

• League Affiliation (Demiurg)
• Grav-Drop: While the Demiurg's usage of Impeller Grav-tech might not match up to the standards of the dying Eldar or the ghoulish Necrons, it is still unparalleled amongst the Squats as they have been mining in Zero-G environments longer than their bearded cousins have been capable of space travel. It is this that allows them an enormous tactical and strategic freedom when it comes to deployment as they can drop in entire platoons using Impeller Grav-Chutes that make the Imperial equivalents look like the work of children. This technology is advanced enough to even allow vehicles to be dropped from High-Orbit, Grav-Impellers guiding them down to the surface as smoothly and swiftly as if they had been riding down an elevator, until they hit the planet's surface A Vehicle model with this Special rule may Deep-Strike, and should it scatter onto an obstacle that would force it to roll on the Deep-Strike Mishap table it may re-roll scatter.

Options:

• May replace Shot Cannon with a:
  • Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
  • Missile Launcher with Krak & Mole warheads (+5pts)
    • May take Flakk Missiles (+10pts)
  • Twin-linked Ion Rifle (+10pts)
  • Coil Cannon (+10pts)
  • Seismic Cannon (+10pts)
  • Gravitic Impulsor (+20pts)
• May Take a Chin Mounted ---
  • Auto Shot Rifle (+5pts)
  • Fusion Projector (+5pts)
  • Coil Repeater (+10pts)
• May take items from the Vehicle Wargear list.
• This vehicle may be taken as a dedicated transport for a unit of Squat Warriors, Sappers, Thunderers, or Hearthguard, so long as they have the League afiliation (Demiurg) Special Rule for 80 points

It uses the same profile as the Devilfish transport but with different armaments, being equipped with 3 Auto-Shot Rifles instead of two gun drones and a burst cannon.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 22:29, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Thing is, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, non-flyer or non-tank vehicles can only fire two weapons maximum, regardless of how much they move in the movement phase. The reason the Devilfish (and any Tau vehicles get away with 3 weapons (Main, 2 Drones) is that the Drones are technically firing independently, or they're replace for a single TL weapon system). But that's why I had two TL Weapons, I don't think it can fire any more than that a turn. Also added Access points, Fire Ports, and a minor cost drop to account for generally weaker fire power than the Devilfish. Will also toy with a Demiurg Skimmer Tank or Grav Bike, dunno just yet The Greater Meh (talk) 01:09, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

It's actually that Fast vehicles can only fire 2 weapons at full BS if they move at combat speed (the rest use snap shots) while all other vehicles can only fire 1 at full BS. It's the Heavy type that makes a vehicle always count as stationary when firing weapons. The tank type just allows it to Tank Shock and Ram. Anyway, I've changed it a little. It would now has a single heavy weapon instead of 3 small ones and the Tank type. We could fluff it as using similar construction as the Devilfish but the Demiurg made it heavier and more robust, which translates in fluff terms to it carrying a heavy weapon and being able to Tank Shock.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 02:04, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Fairy nuff, that said it still needs something to help it fully fit in with the general feel of a Demiurg warforce. What do you think of giving it the ability to deep strike with Grav-thrusters that can handle zero-g environments, but turn it into a one-way drop transport in planetary gravity? Drop-Pod Lite style The Greater Meh (talk) 11:25, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Avalanche Heavy Grav Tank

Second unit, basic template for playing around with

Points Cost 140

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Name	BS	FAV	SAV	RAV	HP
Avalanche Grav Tank	3	13	12	12	3

Unit Composition: 1 Demiurg Avalanche Grav Tank

Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Tank, Heavy)

Wargear: Turret-Mounted Twin-Linked Shot Cannon, 2 Chin Mounted Twin-Linked Auto-Shot Rifles

Special Rules:

• League Affiliation (Demiurg)
• Grav-Drop: While the Demiurg's usage of Impeller Grav-tech might not match up to the standards of the dying Eldar or the ghoulish Necrons, it is still unparalleled amongst the Squats as they have been mining in Zero-G environments longer than their bearded cousins have been capable of space travel. It is this that allows them an enormous tactical and strategic freedom when it comes to deployment as they can drop in entire platoons using Impeller Grav-Chutes that make the Imperial equivalents look like the work of children. This technology is advanced enough to even allow vehicles to be dropped from High-Orbit, Grav-Impellers guiding them down to the surface as smoothly and swiftly as if they had been riding down an elevator, until they hit the planet's surface A Vehicle model with this Special rule may Deep-Strike, and should it scatter onto an obstacle that would force it to roll on the Deep-Strike Mishap table it may re-roll scatter.

Options:

• May replace Twin-Linked Shot Cannon with a:
  • Twin-Linked Heavy Fusion Projector (free)
  • Twin-Linked Missile Launcher with Krak & Mole warheads (+10pts)
    • May take Flakk Missiles (+10pts)
  • Twin-linked Ion Cannon (+20pts)
  • Twin-Linked Coil Cannon (+15pts)
  • Heavy Seismic Cannon (+15pts)
  • Twin-Linked Gravitic Impulsor (+20pts)
• May replace both Chin Mounted Twin-Linked Auto Shot Rifles with ---
  • a pair of Twin-Linked Fusion Projectors (free)
  • a pair of Twin-Linked Coil Repeaters (+20pts)
  • a pair of twin-linked Gravitic Impellers (+20pts)
• May take items from the Vehicle Wargear list.

Demiurg Starbound

Third and Final unique Demiurg unit, once again this is a riff on the Squat Hearthguard (The name may need work), these guys are the Demiurg's best warriors who have trained extensively in both Zero-G and Planetary gravity, enough to the point where they can seemlessly react to any threat in either. Equipped with Iridium Armour, Grav-Impeller Jet-Packs, and Demiurg Grav-Impellar weaponry they're probably the toughest "Hearthguard" unit, but they're rare and costly.

Demiurg Starbound (Elites, 115 Points)

Lorem Ipsum Dolor Sit Amet

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed nec velit ut nisl tristique posuere quis eu neque. Integer non volutpat libero, sit amet dapibus nisl. Cras non tempor nulla, id ultricies lacus. Nulla facilisi. Etiam ut nunc convallis, ultricies metus sed, cursus mi. Suspendisse potenti. Nulla auctor quam in ligula tempor tristique. Cras magna dolor, commodo non aliquam vitae, fermentum eget urna. Suspendisse sed ante laoreet, placerat ante pharetra, viverra risus.

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Starbound	4	4	3	5	1	2	2	10	3+
Starkin	4	4	3	5	1	2	2	10	3+

Unit Composition: 2 Demiurg Starbound, 1 Demiurg starkin

Unit Type: Jump Infantry (Starkin is a character)

Wargear: Gravitic-Impeller, Shot Pistol, CCW, Iridium Armour (+1 T already in profile), Gravitic Booster Pack

Special Rules: League Affiliation (Demiurg), Bitter Hatred, Hardy Souls For Hardy Men

Options:

• May take up to three addition Starbound models for (35pts/model)

Name	Range	Strength	AP	Type
Gravitic Impeller (Gravitic Field	18"	-	-	Assault 1, Blast, Grounding
Gravitic Impeller (Mass Driver)	18"	4	4	Assault 2, Ignores Cover, Rending
Gravitic Impulsor (Gravitic Field)	36"	-	-	Heavy 1, Large Blast, Grounding
Gravitic Impulsor (Mass Driver)	36"	4	4	Heavy 4, Ignores Cover, Rending

• Grounding: Should a unit be hit with a weapon with this special rule they must make a Strength check for every model underneath the blast marker. Should any model fail this check, the unit is immediately forced to Go To Ground until the beginning of the Demiurg player's next Shooting phase.

Alternative Structuring

I propose a differing structuring of the additional special rules, weapons and units available to each league in a similar manner to the layout in The Horus Heresy series. Each unique unit is often similar to another unit in the codes with different weapons so it causes strangeness like equipment being available to elite forces that is unavailable to the leadership and such. If we structure it as proposed, some of the units could be created by adding options to the weapons list without the need for entire new entries which cuts down on page size.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 03:34, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Having never read the Horus Heresy stuff I have no clue what you're talking about, but saving on space sounds good, we're getting a bit loated up in here. If you could give a blank slate example I could help with the formatting The Greater Meh (talk) 13:02, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

http://wh40klib.ru/codex/

Here. This should show you the general layout.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 18:17, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I think this is just me being a moron, but I'm not getting what you're getting at. Pretty pictures though. The Greater Meh (talk) 13:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Fine, I'll explain. The Horus Heresy series has a section titled the 'Space Marine Legion Army List Appendix' which describes how the various legions differ from each other. This section has sub-sections for each legion with each sub-section describing the special rules of the legion, its unique equipment and options, the legion specific units and the special characters of the legion (though in our case, we'll have to keep the unique characters as its own section since we have a character with no league affiliation). For example:

Demiurg: The Starbound Stonekin

League Affiliation (Demiurg)

A race that may or may not be somehow connected to the Squats, the Demiurg look far more alien than the average Squat. With crystal-like hair and mineralized siliconoid skin, yet with the same mental traits as the bearded ones, it is wildly considered that the Demiurg may be in fact a more extremely evolved offshoot of their abhuman brethren instead of a xeno race. Whatever the truth may be, Demiurg-Squat interactions started out strong and have only grown stronger. Though they are seen working with the fledgling Tau Empire, they do not allow the latter to have them folded into their so called "Federation" as they are as independent (and armed to the teeth) as the other Leagues. Unlike the leagues, the Demiurg do not seem to have their own worlds (or it was made so purposefully by them) and instead they are considered to be a space-faring race operating from gargantuan starships that almost match Eldar Craftworlds in size.

• Stronghold Starships - Any unit with a 4+ save or better may deep strike onto the battlefield.
• Legacy of Interaction - Add Hatred (Tau Empire) to their list of Bitter Hatred enemies. In addition (ironically) they may also ally with the Tau Empire as Battle Brothers.

Legion Specific Units

Gravitic Weaponry: While Gravitic technology is used through the Squat holds for a variety of purposes, none are more comfortable with its many forms than the spacebound Demiurg. From the miniature artificial Grav-Plating used in their spacecraft to the humongous gravitic lances used to break apart natural satellites the study and usage of this technology remains unmatched by any other League. While most of their more advanced Gravitic tech is too cumbersome or fragile to be used on the battlefield, it is not uncommon to see Demiurg vehicles using their gravitic weaponry to pin enemy squads in place with gravity waves before squads of warriors use the same weapons to accelerate pieces of shrapnel or debris as devastating ammunition.

• Gravitic Impeller
  • Gravitic Field - Profile (Range:18", Strength -, AP: -, Heavy 1, Blast, Grounding)
  • Mass Driver - Profile (Range 18", Strength 4, AP: 4, Heavy 2, Ignores Cover, Rending)
• Gravitic Impulsor
  • Gravitic Field - Profile (Range:36", Strength -, AP: -, Heavy 1, Large Blast, Grounding)
  • Mass Driver - Profile (Range 36", Strength 4, AP: 4, Heavy 4, Ignores Cover, Rending)
• Grounding Should a unit be hit with a weapon with this special rule they must make a Strength check. Should the unit fail this check, the unit is immediately forced to Go To Ground until the beginning of the Demiurg player's next Shooting phase.

Gravitic Impellars are added to the Heavy Weapons and Exo-Suit Ranged Weapons lists, costing 15 points each. Iron Brother Walkers may replace any Twin-linked Missile Launcher with a Twin-linked Gravitic Impellar for free. Any vehicle may replace any equipped Rapier Laser Destroyer with a Gravitic Impulsor for 20 points each.

Gravitic Booster Pack: While the gravitic weaponry of the Demiurg may have spread throughout the war forces of the Squat leagues they hold tightly to the more tactical applications of the technology, such as the Gravitic Booster Packs. These suit mounted devices are, in essence, miniaturised versions of the Gravity engines that allow Demiurg skimmers to descend from high orbit without incident, and are only issued to the Demiurg Starboard who are trained extensively in their usage, both in using them to deep-strike into enemy lines, and using them to further navigate around the battlefield, jumping from hot-zone to hot-zone. Models with a Gravitic Booster Pack are either Jump Infantry or Jet Pack Infantry (choose before army deployment). They cannot change their unit type during the game. HQ choices wearing Iridium Armor may take a Gravitic Booster Pack for 15 points.

This gets followed by the entries for Starbounds, Rock-Hoppers and Avalanches.

--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 18:09, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Okay, I gets ya, should be fairly simple to do with some Ctrl+X, Ctrl+V. The Greater Meh (talk) 18:44, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Special Characters

I was thinking of few ideas for new characters

• A sapper character; a demolition specialist with some unique gear or special rules. He (or she) could potentially unlock sappers as troops.
• Maybe the squat equivalent of Mulan; a female squat that defied expectations. Not sure what rules or gear she would have, but I like the idea at least
• A squat equivalent of the Godfather; he runs all of the dirty deals and shady business, but he is fiercely protective of his turf and his people, and has a bunch of connections to call on. Maybe he saved the day when Orks attacked his Hold, organizing his fellow criminals into a force to save the day.

--Urist (talk) 18:00, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

• If you want to make some profiles and rules for the characters, we can review them and see if they fit. We have a bunch of characters already, but who knows? If we like the ideas enough, we'll consider them for inlusion--Tw6464 (talk) 18:15, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

For some reason, when I think of Dwarf Godfather, I think of a Tyrion Lannister sort of character but actually respected by his people. --Super12345 (talk) 04:58, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Here is a potential mercenary character that any league can take. She is a sniper that travels from Hold to Hold, killing the enemies of the Squats

Name	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv
Sigurn	5	4	3	4	3	2	3	9	4+

Unit Type: Infantry (Character) Unit Composition: 1 Sigurn Special Rules: Stubborn,Hardy Souls for Hardy Men, Bitter Hatred, Independent Character, Infiltrate, Grudge-Killer Wargear: Carapace Armor, Chameleon Cloak, CCW, Shot Pistol, Grudgekeeper, Melta Bomb

Rule:

• Grudge-Killer: At the beginning of the battle, before both sides have deployed, choose one enemy character or independent character. All your shots count as precision shots when firing at a unit with your target in it, and your target has a -1 penalty to Look Out Sir! rolls against you. You also gain Preferred Enemy against that character.

Wargear:

• Grudgekeeper || R 48" || S:X || AP1 || Heavy 2, Armor-Piercer, Sniper, Devastating Wounds!

Armor Piercer: Enemies must re-roll successful invulnerable saves against wounds inflicted by this weapon. Devastating Wounds: On a roll of 5+ to wound, that wound counts as having the Instant Death special rule.

--Urist (talk) 17:42, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Here is a cool character I came up with. I will post Hilda's profile soon:

Tholm Goldbeard, The Godfather

Fluff:

Until the invasion of his homeworld, Tholm Goldbeard was regarded with suspicion and distrust by most honorable squats. This was because Tholm was the local crime lord, running protection rackets, smuggling rings and illegal gambling. When orks laid siege to the stronghold in which he lived, the stronghold's military was one of the first casualties. Initially, Tholm reacted to this by selling the food he had supplied to the desperate civilian for inflated prices. This would have probably continued, were it not for a chance encounter with Hilda Drakkenbrand. Hilda was merely a child at the time, an orphan of one of the many clan squabbles. When Tholm found Hilda, she was near death from starvation. It is unclear why Tholm took her in. Perhaps he empathized with her, perhaps he felt guilty for charging so much for food. Regardless of the reason, he took her in, and fed her. Changed by his experience of compassion, Tholm began to turn his significant resources to defending the hold. Stockpiles of weapons were distributed among the civilians and food was given to the hungry. The hired thugs that Tholm normally employed were organized into a milita to defend the hold. When the orks breached the gates, they found the squats waiting for them. Although the squats fought bravely, they were eventually overwhelmed. When they reached the living quarters, Tholm barred their way. For hours he fought, driving the orks back again and again. Although bleeding from dozens of wounds, he refused to fall, unwilling to let the orks hurt his adopted daughter. When reinforcements finally arrived, they found Tholm near death, underneath a mountain of dead orks. Hilda and the others were unharmed. Thanks to a good deal of cybernetic replacements, Tholm survived, but now he is a changed man. No longer a criminal, Tholm takes the fight to the orks alongside his now grown adopted daughter, who he adores more than life itself. Countless times he has risked his life taking blows that were meant for her, and each time, he does so with a smile on his lips, for he would gladly die a thousand times than let some bastard hurt his daughter.

Points Cost - 200

	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	Ld	Sv	Unit Type	Composition
Tholm Goldbeard	5	4	3	4	3	3	3	10	4+/5++	Infantry (Character)	Tholm Goldbeard

Special Rules:

• Bitter Hatred
• Hardy Souls for Hardy Men
• Dirty Fighter: Tholms attacks in close combat have the strikedown, rending, concussive, and blind special rules.
• League Affiliation (Thor)
• Independent Character
• Feel No Pain
• No One Hurts My Little Girl!: Tholm automatically passes Look Out Sir! rolls for Hilda, and if she dies, he gains Rage and Preferred Enemy against the unit that killed her.

Wargear:

• Frag Grenades
• Krak Grenades
• Carapace Armor
• Refractor Field
• MC Power Sword
• Shot Pistol

Playtesting

I played a game with this codex yesterday, so I thought that I would provide some feedback. I used the following list.

2600 point game, League of Thor

List: HQ: Ancestor Lord w/ Mantle of Doom + 2x Psychic Mastery Levels + Force Field + Overdrive System + Rune Stones + Psychic Hood + Macro Hammer

Elites: Exo Warriors + x1 Extra Exo Warrior + Overdrive Systems + x4 Cyclone Missile Launchers + 4x Macro Hammers

Dedicated Transport: Land Raider + Hellion Missiles + x2 Clearance Fusion Projectors + Dozer Blade (5)

Troops: Thunderer Squad + x5 Extra Thunderers + Carapace Armor + 4x Gravitic Impellers + Upgrade to Veteran + Veteran Power Sword

Dedicated Transport: Rhino + Dozer Blade + Smoke Launchers

Troops: Thunderer Squad + x5 Extra Thunderers + Carapace Armor + 4x Gravitic Impellers + Upgrade to Veteran + Veteran Power Sword

Dedicated Transport: Rhino + Dozer Blade + Smoke Launchers

Troops: Thunderer Squad + x5 Extra Thunderers + Carapace Armor + 4x Seismic Cannons + Upgrade to Veteran + Veteran Power Sword

Dedicated Transport: Rhino + Dozer Blade + Smoke Launchers

Troops: Thunderer Squad + x5 Extra Thunderers + Carapace Armor + 4x Seismic Cannons + Upgrade to Veteran + Veteran Power Sword

Dedicated Transport: Rhino + Dozer Blade + Smoke Launchers

Fast Attack: Sapper Squad + 5x Extra Sappers + Chameleon Cloaks + 2x Demolition Charges

Dedicated Transport: Rumbler Borer

Fast Attack: Sapper Squad + 5x Extra Sappers + Chameleon Cloaks + 2x Demolition Charges

Dedicated Transport: Rumbler Borer

Heavy Support: Ironhammer Tank + Heavy Coil Cannon + 3x Coil Cannons + Targeting Array

Heavy Support: Ironhammer Tank + Heavy Coil Cannon + 3x Coil Cannons + Targeting Array

My opponent was playing Iron Hands space marines, no decurion. I don't recall exactly what he fielded, but I will list what I do remember.

Opponent's List:

Footslogging Captain w/Gorgon's Chain

2x Tactical Squads in Drop Pods

2x Tactical Squads in Rhinos

Max Honor Guard Squad

Max Squad of Predators

Max Squad of Predators

1x Squads of Devastators

The game began with space marines getting first turn, alpha striking with drop pods. My sappers were in reserve, and everything else was in its transport, so the two drop pods of tactical squads only managed to pop a rhino and take a hull point off another. Predator squad and devastator squads strip two hull points off of the squat land raider. Honor guard squad advanced up the field. On the squat turn, I managed to pop two predators with the Ironhammer tanks (coil cannons and heavy coil cannons are nasty against armor). Land raider advances and uses hellion missiles to pop another predator, leaving three predators. I move seismic weapon thunderers forward in their rhinos and disembarked, then opened fire on tactical squad, killing five marines. The two gravitic impeller thunderers fired at the drop pod marines, forcing both of them to go to ground. Next turn, my two seismic thunderers had their rhinos destroyed by predators, and one squad was then killed by plasma cannon devastators. My turn, the remaining squad of seismic thunderers wipes out the already wounded tactical squad. two more preds are destroyed by the ironhammer tanks. Land raider moves up, disembarks exo-warriors with Ancestor Lord. I charge honor guard squad with exo-warriors, losing 1 exo warrior in the ensuing combat. Captain and ancestor lord duel. Another tactical squad loses six men to my gravitic impeller thunderers. Space Marine turn, lose the other squad of seismic thunderers to plasma devastators. Captain dies in challenge, and honor guard squad loses four more men to exo warriors, while losing another member in return. Remaining predator destroys one of the ironhammers, and plasma devs take the other down to 1 hull point. Next turn, squat reserves come in, sappers arrive, in rumbler borer, one of which destroys a Rhino full of tacticals, and the other pops up near the devastators. Demolition charges destroy all of the devastators, while the other sapper squad kills most of the squad that was in the rhino. We had to call the game at that point due to time constraints.

Thoughts

This codex is powerful. The combination of abundant heavy weapons, space marine level toughness, and excellent vehicles and HQ choices means that it works very well. The most valuable players in this game were probably the Ironhammer tanks. Coil cannons are nasty against armor, and heavy coil cannons are great at killing infantry as well. I think that Thor having thunderers as troops AND giving all squats FnP is too much. I will add more commentary when I think of it.

--Urist (talk) 17:50, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm honestly surprised you found someone who would let you play a homebrewed list. In any event, perhaps some more playtesting should be done before we make any serious changes. We definitely need to see how the other Leagues play against more codices. We'll probably also want some data on how characters do against characters from other codices--Tw6464 (talk) 16:44, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, Display of Ostentation is among the optional upgrades among the leagues, could be useful but it will only take effect if you try to use it but according to you, it is quite a powerful bonus so it may need to be changed to something else but no I have idea what that something else should be. The Carapace Armor upgrade for Thunderers may need removal as well.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 19:31, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Any warlord or Thane may take a Squad of Thunderers or Hearthguard as a Personal Retinue, this retinue does not take up a FoC Slot. This a good idea to aim for? Keeps the idea that they've got easier access to heavy weapons, but it also puts a HQ tax on it. Meaning that bringing in a Battle-forged army of Thunderer-Cheeze is now more expensive. The Greater Meh (talk) 22:13, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Another solution is to take a leaf out of Forge World's Legiones Astartes codex, and have League of Thor unlock them as Troops, but specify that they can never be your compulsory troop choices (ie. in order to make a battleforged list, you will need to take at least 2 warrior squads). The other option is to up their point cost.

--Urist (talk) 18:44, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Additional Rules for Leagues

So... Emberg seems like it has more of a complete rules set, while the other leagues seem rather meager by comparison. I was hoping that we could potentially change that. I had some ideas for the other leagues, but let me know your thoughts:

• Grindel:

Slayer Cult - Units of Berzerkers taken by units with League Affiliation (Grindel) gain +1 S and the Furious Charge Special Rules

• Norgyr

Robotic Allies - Units from the Legio Cybernetica may be taken as Elites Choice in an army with League Affiliation (Norgyr)

Death to All Traitors! - Units with League Affiliation (Norgyr) gain Bitter Hatred (Armies of Chaos)

• Kapellar

SOMETHING SOMETHING SCIENCE (name pending change) - Units of Guild Engineers with League Affiliation can re-roll failed Battlesmith rolls

• Thor

Honor to the Ancestors - Units within 6" of an Ancestor Lord gain Stubborn

• Emberg

The Hated Traitors - Squat Detachments that do not have League Affiliation (Emberg) gain Bitter Hatred (League of Emberg) and Squat Detachments with League Affiliation (Emberg) may re-roll failed To-Hit Rolls in every round of close combat when attacking units from the other Leagues

let me know what you think, please!--Tw6464 (talk) 22:21, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Is it time to give Emberg it's own fandex?

We've often had to shout about how Emberg already has too many unique toys when people suggest giving them some more, and given that the precedent in 40k is to give any "evil twin" faction its own separate codex (Space Marines -> Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Guard -> Forgeworld Renegades and Heretics, Craftworld Eldar -> Dark Eldar [even if it seems that the Dark Eldar mostly seem to exist to give Craftworld Eldar some extra monstrous creature killing punch as allies these days]), I was thinking maybe it is time to just man up and give Emberg it's own fandex? We have the basis to form the skeleton of a decent fandex already, and we could work from there to add in more things to help them feel unique. Such as Daemons of Hashut, special Daemon Engines, more marks of Chaos Android, Slave races, and of course units that are actual Chaos Squats. It's clear that there are a lot of ideas for Emberg, and to me it seems like keeping them bound to the rest of the squats might be too much of a constraint. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 08:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

I can see that The Greater Meh (talk) 10:59, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. Let's just make a damn Chaos Squats Codex already--Tw6464 (talk) 16:24, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Chaos Squats Link The Greater Meh (talk) 12:17, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Two more tech-relics

Looking at the Eldar and Necron codexes I've noticed that six or seven seems to be the standard for the number of artifacts in an army and I was wondering if we should craft up two more of them? And if so, what should they be? I was also wondering if we could also adapt Warhammer Fantasy's Dwarfen rune system for something unique to the squats; whether just the weapon runes or the whole dealio. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 12:40, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I second the vote for a squat rune system. I would say that each army should make the choice between using a psyker and having the runes; having both is a little much. I would suggest that runes can only be used if you have a guild engineer or some other specific HQ to unlock it. Also I agree that we should add more relics. May I suggest adding the Grav-Wave Generator as a relic (HH4, all charges against a model with this special rule or the unit they are in take a -2 penalty).

--Urist (talk) 16:17, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

I third the vote for a squat rune system! And if you can come with stats for relic stuff, Crazy Cryptek that'd be great.--Tw6464 (talk) 17:29, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

The Grav-Wave Generator is rather cheap (10pts) and can be taken by any generic HQ in the Solar Auxilia list so I wouldn't have it be a relic. The best place for it is the special-issue wargear list.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 20:56, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Yeah it is cheap, but it is criminally under-costed for a shooty army and is about as powerful as that relic force staff that the thousand sons got in the traitor legions supplement, which IIRC costs something like 35 points. Assault units these days tend to be deathstars, where making their charge fail for one turn means that the enemies entire strategy is entirely screwed. In the games of 30k that I have used it in, it has often payed for itself ten times over when something big like a terminator deathstar tries to charge and fails, and ends up getting mostly shot to pieces the next turn. If we are going to make it something in the special issue wargear section, we need to massively increase its cost. Something like that should cost something like 50 pts, and even then it should be one use only. --Urist (talk) 02:40, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

• The Thousands Sons Force Staff is actually 10 points, not 35, though in their case it is an upgrade to a regular Force Staff. That being said, the other two instances of Grav-Wave Generators are an artifact that Bellisarius Cawl grants access to and the Tau Grav-Drone, both of which cost 15 points.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 16:54, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

WHAT THE FLYING HELL!?

What the hell happened when I wasn't around? Sorry that I was off for so long, but a lot has happened that I couldn't do those Norgyr units (also got a job and I'm all spent), but WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO? Making Ungarr a Grindel Squat and making Berserkers into Grindel units? THAT'S STUPID. The idea of Berserkers is that they are supposed to be fighting machines for all Leagues. You guys instead made them into Grindel-unique units. That was in the old Squat Codex, it was in lore and in this case it is not a good move at all. Changes I accept, but there some I won't stomach the same way as John Rambo can stomach stuff a goat wouldn't eat no matter how hungry it would be. I'm reversing the stuff with Ungarr and moving Berserkers to the usual Elite Slot. Would do more, but for this whole week and the next one from Monday to Friday I'm too much into work. - Ben (talk) 18:53, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Should we put this on hold until 8th edition hits?

I think any updates to this codex should be put on hold until 8th edition comes out. Thoughts?--Tw6464 (talk) 17:13, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

I figured that was the case for big sweeping updates and tinkering with unit balance, although tossing around ideas shouldn't stop The Greater Meh (talk) 17:43, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Should we make a 8th edition version of this after? As in, this be the what-if 7th edition & also have a 8th edition version--Super12345 (talk) 18:49, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

That is what we're doing with the Tau-Auxiliaries fandex, if these guys want to do the same with the Squats then that's definately an option The Greater Meh (talk) 19:23, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

I vote we create a seperate 8th edition version. I will start working on converting some of the weapons to 8th edition. --Urist (talk) 19:49, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

I created a page for the 8th Edition Squat Codex. I would rather not lose the 7th edition codex, so creating a seperate page for the 8th edition one seems like the best option. Here is the link Codex-Squats 8th Edition

--Urist (talk) 11:17, 3 July 2017 (UTC)