Talk:Codex - The Covenant

Not rules, but someone ought to adapt the game files and add them to Thingverse for 3D printing at 28mm.

Back in the day (5th/6th Edition), used to run 'plasma' weapons as las weapons. The 'plasma' pistols were las pistols which could overwatch at full ballistic skill, to represent the charged shot. Needle weapons were just las weapons with rending. Sure, they're guided but don't need any special rule for that because it cancels out them being so slow. Elites had a 6+ save with a special 3+ save that would only be cancelled by strength 6 attacks or attacks at AP1 or AP2. That really carried the unique feel of the shields in-game but might now work so well with the new AP system. Better than invulnerable saves. Elite shields will not save them from missile launchers. Elites could run 'plasma' (las) rifles twin-linked, like in Halo 2.

If the function of a weapon is the same as an existing weapon, just give it the same name as a result of translation into Gothic or some such. ('Plasma'/las rifle and fuel rod/plasma cannon.) Easier for opponents who don't know the list.

I've got the stats for all of these in order, thanks for inputting the general fluff/info. Now should the Banshee be a skimmer (implying it can be hit with Melee weapons, which it can't be), or a zooming Flyer with limitations on speed? Remoon101 (talk) 14:31, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

• A banshee is a light reconnaissance scout aircraft, so I think a Flyer would work, also thanks for replying...Wait, are you the guy that created the Codex: Covenant on Dakka Dakka.org? Because I think I have your fan made Codex <:o
  • Nah, nah. I'm not that guy, though I am taking ideas and influence from previous codicies that people wrote up. This is a completely separate endeavor. Previous codicies I saw had overpowered units, underpowered Grunts (believe it or not), and an overload of unique special rules. 192.5.215.254 16:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
• The main problem with something from the Covenant is that it is from Halo, the Calcs like WH40K is all over the place. So it is wise to choose a specific calc from a specific Halo source in order to work in a WH40K setting.
  • I'm trying to work off common sense mainly, if that thing applies to sci-fi settings of varying nature. For example Jackals are said to have very good eyesight, and are thus used as marksman. I would compare their ability to something like Ratlings, who are used in a similar function. A codex I saw gave them BS6. Stuff like that, plus avoiding vidya game to tabletop comparisons Remoon101 (talk) 16:15, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
• Jackal Snipers are VERY good snipers, not as good as a Vindicare Assassin, but still dangerous enough to make Spacemarines nervous.
• Actually can you guys put some badass Covenant Image in the Codex section?
  • BS4 is seen as highly accurate commonly attributed to advanced eyesight or many years of training and practice. I am giving Jackal Majors BS5, in deference to their high proficiency in ranged warfare to the exclusion of all else. Remoon101 (talk) 15:32, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
• Hey Remoon101, can you do the "Glassing of Djangoris Alpha IV" section.
  • It's already been done. After much deliberation I decided to lower regular Plasma weapon Strength by 1 all across the board as they don't exactly blast apart torsoes or vaporize bodies in my experience. Also decided to nerf Grunts enough so I could make them 3pts a pop. Needler weapon Super-Combine was all dandy but a little unwieldy of a rule so I replaced it with Rending accordingly to demonstrate the mass explosive effect. I'll be continuing to work on mainline units, then HQ's, then the rest of the Unique HQ's, and then the Super Heavies Remoon101 (talk) 18:13, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
• Sweet, can't wait, did anybody from 1d4chan read this yet?

Your effort is nice, but curb your enthusiasm

Right now what you have is a grotesquely overpowered codex with matt ward level fluff. You really need to tone down a lot of the silliness and take a look at the Spartan stats and use them as a base, remembering that generally, even the most elite of the covenant has trouble fighting said Spartan one on One.

You'll need nerfs across the board before anyone will want to play you. And remember than in 40k fluff, anyone has the potential to get completely and utterly owned by anyone else but nobody actually has the potential to knock anyone out of the galactic scene. So if you bring in the forerunners or the flood or UNSC, you'll need to design their crunch and fluff with that in mind. So yes, that will mean you will have to have the Flood getting stomped on by Orks or Guardsmen killing the Forerunners if you want a balanced book that anyone outside of your circle of friends will want to play.Crazy Cryptek (talk) 16:31, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

• None of the fluff that has been written is mine, those were the work of other people trying to contribute without messing with the crunch that I'm personally putting in right now. Also, the bits of crunch that I do see tacked on to the ends of said Matt ward level fluff are not actually in the codex, if you took the time to look at the hard crunch (the parts with the wargear, unit costs, and weapons stats) they don't match up with the parts you're complaining about. If you still have further comments or suggestions please be more specific and keep in mind that everything is very prone to change and will be modified accordingly.

Also, you're wrong about Spartan equivalent stats for Elites and such. Elites and Brutes are not the same as Spartans, and most proposed Spartan stats sometimes exceed MEQ stats so I'm not going WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A1 Ld8 Sv3+ across the board for a reason. Please make a distinction in your judgment here. Also, I do plan on going back and toning down the fluff personally once I'm mostly done with the crunch of the codex and overall balancing.

As your comment targets the overpowered fluff and "crunch" that I have not submitted I take no offense. If trolling 7/10 for making me reply on an iPhone. If critiquing, please keep in mind which sections are the actual crunch I'm working on and be more specific in your comments if you have a problem with them still. Remoon101 (talk) 19:16, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

• • I'm primarily looking at the contributions without stats which would make for some pretty unbalanced enemies. An army wide 2+ bonus to armor saves? Most armies would kill for that and if GW put that in a book everyone would bitch about it. Most of them were derpysauruses add ons which I've toned down, but your contributions seem more or less fine. Anyway, I look at the Spartan stats as a base to work everything else off of while being firmly in the ground of reason. Most of this was directed to Derpysaurus rather than you in any case.

In any case, this may inspire me to post my Decepticon stuff from dakkadakka.Crazy Cryptek (talk) 19:45, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

• I honestly have a feeling that most of the crunch there is just a joke, just take a look at what someone wrote for Dadab, the Grunt Deacon Remoon101 (talk) 20:14, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Wait wasn't it you Reemon101 that did the crunch for Dadab? because I definitely did not do the whole "Lets combine our Grunty powers equal to that of a Scarab beam" ridiculousness, I am mostly the one doing the descriptive fluff for the Covie weapons area, anyway could someone finish the Glassing of Djangoris Alpha IV, it was on the shelf for quite a while Derpysaurus

Currently as they are they seem a little unjustifiably skilled. I'd suggest downgrading Elite and Brute WS and BS to 3s instead and having the 4 be for Veterans like Zealots and other special forces. A base WS and BS of 4 tends to go to races with a special ability or a lot of combat experience that gives them an advantage. Eldar and Space Marines have an incredible reaction speed which allows them to start off at the 4s, Imperial Guard veterans have managed to survive many battlefields and therefore have a BS of 4 and numerous other examples can be listed. The Elites are agile but that would translate into higher I while Brutes are tough but are more reliant on Brute force than combat skill. Additionally I'd suggest moving the Phantom to Heavy Support instead of Dedicated Transport. Being able to take Flyers as Dedicated Transports is why the Elysian Drop Troopers and Necrons are overpowered in 6th edition. Also I went through the unit description and changed them to match the Crunch. Sorry if I screwed things up by eliminating things that you just hadn't implemented yet. I would love to help with this. Especially if you know of a site where I can generate abilities and points values for Warhammer 40k games and therefore make it easier to balance things. ilniaj (talk) 1:45, 19 October 2013

• So much of this is so far off, covenant flyers would not be anywhere near av13 ever, their melee weapons should be worse versions of 40k ones and the amount of haywire they can have is stupid. Also, hunters should NOT be MCs.
  • If you want to discuss/complain about the crunch then ask Remoon101 on his talk page, I am mostly the fluff writer. Derpysaurus

• ilniaj thank you for your ideas in balancing, but in fluff wise Elites has been noted so fast that they only register as "Blurs" for normal humans while Brutes are much more faster, so they are closer to Spacemarines then Spartans. Furthermore the "Taking flyers as dedicated transport", where is that? because if you are referring to the banshees, then it was used to balance their incredibly low durability. Derpysaurus
  • Phantoms are in the Dedicated Transport section and are classified as Flyers. In 40k being fast tends to contribute to Initiative rather than WS. BS is affected by eyesight and reaction speed while WS is more affected by reaction speed than actual movement speed which is why ordinary humans are capable of having a higher WS than Eldar but still strike last.ilniaj
  • Oh you meant the Phantoms, ok I have nothing to do with that. Derpysaurus

• Some random IP user is editing stats and equipment with utter disregard for internal balance and pricing. Doesn't even bother to justify the changes. I understand everyone wants to contribute but there's a balancing act going on at the same time and I don't want this to be like the Codex - Angry Marines page where everyone's happily chipping in but making the codex unplayable at the same time. Remoon101 (talk) 18:38, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
  • A few of his changes make sense; a few don't. If we can get him to calm down and discuss changes with others then he could be a valued contributor. ilniaj

• What. The. Hell. Did someone make a Prophet of Regret entry by translating the bullshit in his description into crunch and decide to justify it by slapping 300pts on it? That's retarded. Any objections to a new entry? Remoon101 (talk) 20:31, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Wait. The descriptions on units are NOT actually a guideline for how they are supposed to be structured in crunch? ilniaj

• Come on Remoon101! Take a Snickers, your not you when you're hungry. ;)-...Derpysaurus

*Crunch* Thanks for the chill pill... er, Internet chocolate. But still, why Sentinel Defenders? Why Sentinel? Why? Why 300pts? Why not a double Orbital Lance beam instead? Why? All I want to know is, what is the fluff (and crunch) justification for the current incarnation for the Prophet of Regret? Remoon101 (talk) 02:16, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

• • It is so that it is similar to the Prophet of Regret from Halo Wars, in Halo Wars the Prophet of Regret get to have sentinels to protect him and he could call in a Glassing beam. Derpysaurus

Tau and Covenant Relations

I don't want either faction stomping the other but the Tau are not push-overs and are not naive when it comes to butchery such as the given incident. The latest edit made by Derpysaurus (spelling?) should more than suffice on elaborating on the relationship between the two. Let's try to leave it as is. Remoon101 (talk) 14:37, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Pricing Discussion

I took a look at Brutes again and I think they may be a little overpriced for 14pts each. I mean, they have slightly worse stats than Marines (mainly I4, 3+ armor save critically) and they share more stuff in common with Orks, thought having better armor, weapons and equipment. I was wondering what you guys would think if I lowered the standard Brute Minor to 10pts instead of 14pts? Remoon101 (talk) 01:06, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

• Brutes ARE the Halo version of Orks, however they are much more smarter and much more cunning then Orks. In fluff a single Brute minor needed a grenade shoved up in his mouth just in order for the Spartans to kill it, said Brute was so dangerous that even MC was having immense trouble in containing the Brute despite the fact that the Brute was in a head lock; it almost broke MC arms. So just lower the Brute by 5 or 7 points. Derpysaurus
• I think that lowering the points cost by 5 points would probably include dropping both the WS and BS by 1 to remain balanced. The same would have to be done for Elites. The closest approximation to an Elite is the Crusader from the Marines codex. The Elite has an inferior ranged weapon and lower toughness which would drop it's cost by 2. The 6++ invulnerable save would then increase his cost by 1, making him cost 9 points. The closest approximation to a Brute is an 'Ard Boy (10pts). The Brute has better S and I which would increase it's point cost by 2 while the 'Ard Boy has a better ranged weapon, WS and the cheesy Mob Rule which would reduce the Brutes point cost by 3, leaving both the Elite and Brute costing 9 points. I think that Elite Squads and Brute Packs should be moved to Troops choices and the Hated Rival rule reworked so that a player would have to pick whether their force consists of Elites or Brutes and that pick limits them to either Elite or Brute units. A Covenant allied detachment of the other species could also be taken as AOC. ilniaj

My Suggestions

I like your idea. I'm one of the chief developers for Scrollhammer, but I think that it sounds pretty cool and I might be willing to help if I have time. But balancing things on par with the 40k universe is a little tricky. The 40k universe has a higher overall tech level than the Halo universe, to the point where most Halo weapons and armor would be pretty weak using 40k rules.

For example, an Astartes Space Marine is your average soldier in the balance system of 40k tabletop play. The Astartes is fluffwise like the Spartans in Halo, but has better equipment and better biological enhancements. A Spartan is perhaps halfway between an ordinary human and an Astartes, but in the 40k tabletop rules the difference between human and Astartes is that the Astartes gets +1 to his stats and And They Shall Know No Fear. There isn't room in the existing 40k system for something halfway between them.

So what I would advise for this project is to do what Forge World has done with Horus Heresy "30k", and make the rules for Halo in Warhammer compatible with Warhammer but balanced on a different system for stats and skills. Balance things around an ordinary human marine or kig'yar jackal, rather than around super soldiers: Spartans and the like should be highly elite with lots of special skills. This way, Spartans will be able to be more powerful than Astartes on the tabletop, despite being their equivalent with technically worse equipment in the fluff. In fact, doing this will make the fluff match the tabletop closer to what can be found in Warhammer 40k's shoddy balance.

Doing this you could make rules for UNSC, Insurrectionist, Flood and Forerunner forces in addition to the Covenant rules, and have them be self-contained balance capable of playing vs. Warhammer armies but not worrying about matching the broken Warhammer fluff-to-crunch system. And if you make a Warhammer game set in the 2500's, you could potentially bring in other sci-fi franchises like Starship Troopers or Starcraft under the same system: this would allow for more crossovers, in fact more believable ones, than Halo-40k.

Note that I'm not dissing your idea of making rules for Covenant in the 41st Millennium, only suggesting that you bear in mind the precedents in 40k. If you want "Covenant in the 41st Millennium" then you should also add the Covenant psykers in your fluff. BS5 is rare in 40k except for the elite of the elite. A Banshee should be 10-10-10 not 11-10-10, it is an extremely light and expendable vehicle, 11-10-10 makes it as well armored as a large Tau fighter jet. So I'd advise you decide whether you're writing these rules for the 40k universe or for the Halo universe with 40k compatibility. Either way, I might write some stuff specifically for the Halo universe, and definitely incorporate some of your rules if you're fine with it: a lot of your stuff is good.

One rule thing irks me: Jetbikes and Skimmers in 40k refer to vehicles that can fly several meters above the ground while boosting, and so are able to navigate over obstacles. Covenant Ghosts are not Jetbikes, they are Hoverbikes, and Covenant vehicles are Hovercraft: they can fly over water and the like, and don't have trouble with rocks and the like, but they cannot boost over trees or buildings. There needs to be a specific Hover rule for them. I would advise they use Jetbike and Skimmer rules with the following changes:

• Hoverbikes are Jetbikes that only Turbo-Boost 18", rather than 24". They use Bikes terrain rules when attempting to move through difficult or vertically impassable terrain, if moving over specific terrain objects or parts of terrain that are 2" or higher(this means that they cannot climb ruins, must test dangerous terrain when moving over large rubble or through thick forests, etc.).

• Hovercraft are Skimmers that get -1 to their Jink save. They use non-skimmer vehicle terrain rules when attempting to move through difficult or vertically impassable terrain, if moving over specific terrain objects or parts of terrain that are 2" or higher(this means that they cannot climb ruins, must test dangerous terrain when moving over large rubble or through thick forests, etc.).

Thoughts?

--Lolpwnt (talk) 23:49, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

• I like your suggestions and I actually find it pretty well balance, unfortunately I'm not the one doing the crunch here since its mostly ilniaj job, I am mostly the fluff writer that tries to make the Covenant more compatible in a WH40K situation. As you should know, the idea of implementing the Covenant in WH40K started out in a "What If" event during a WH40K Force Add thread, and it was concluded that depending on the fluff (Halo's power levels are beyond inconsistent as fuck and is as bad as WH40K), and by making their commanders more competent, the Covenant stands a pretty good chance in surviving in this Universe (Ironically much better then the Tau) due to their pretty large size, industry, numbers, mobility and speed. So in a sense, when I thought on how they would most likely be, I imagine them as a mix between Eldar, Tau and IoM as you can see in the following dot-points...
  • Eldar: Other then similarities in looks, the ships of the Covies are noted to be ridiculously fast especially in their respective universe, similar of how the Eldar are much more faster then the IoM or Tau. Furthermore the Covies also have their own mobile home ship and space stations that are on planetary levels (Eg. High Charity) similar to the Eldar.
  • Tau: Their similarities and resemblance of their coalition of different Xenos, although the Covies are far more harsher.
  • IoM: Similar fear of A.I. and similar resemblance of an Empire that only stagnates in tech, both are religiously fanatical and delusional, and both their society is plagued with fear, paranoia, ignorance and xenophobia. The Covenant (Although to a MUCH lesser extent) also fight wars with numbers. Furthermore the Covies (Like all of Halo) have a ridiculously insane industrial output to boot.

Because of this resemblance, I kind of decided to make the Covenant (From crunch terms) to be incredibly fast and mobile but vulnerable (Eldar), could come in numbers to offset their individual weakness (Similar to Imperial Guard and Nids), and their vehicles could be tasked to be multi-purpose/ Jack of All Trades but suffer from underwhelming firepower in the process.

Furthermore with your suggestions on adding the UNSC, Insurrectionist, Flood and Forerunners in the mix...well...to start it off, I think the reason why there are less UNSC/Insurrectionist Fandex as compared to the Covenant is most likely because that they are so influentially small that they might as well be another regiment of the Imperial Guard. And IMO, the Flood are too difficult to balance both fluff wise and crunch wise, you can start them as a small infestation, but then you will be having a enemy that is too insignificant, weak and their crunch rules of turning your troops into their fighting force would be too unnecessary complicated in balance. On the other hand, if you start the Flood as during its height in the Forerunner-Flood War, then you have an enemy so LOLPowerful that they would most likely God-Stomp anything with a few Star-Roads that is not Chaos related. The Forerunners are also similar to the Flood in that if you are using post-Flood War, then there would be too little variety of units to even maintain a proper army. On the other hand if you are using full power Forerunner-Ecumene, then they would be so overpowered that the only faction in WH40K that could resist a cataclysmic Culture-light stomp from them is WIH Necrons and Old Ones. So really when it comes to who is in the middle for Halo, the Covenant is the only one we can still pick on without worrying of being too small and insignificant (UNSC/Insurrectionist) or being so blatantly Overpowered and crunch-wise incredibly complicated to balance without some IMMENSE nerfing (Flood/Forerunners).

Also for your suggestion for Covenant Psychics, we already have one that is somewhat similar to that in the fluff section without going too over the board and ridiculous, is called Ki-Psionics and yes, the name is quite lame on my part. Although we do have the fluff, we don't have the Crunch and rules for it, the reason is because we aren't yet sure on how to balance them for the Covenant army.

Thanks for the idea and suggestions though. Derpysaurus

I'm considered the main Crunch guy? Wow, that's cool. But I've got a problem, I don't know how to actually create new units. Previously, I just made minor modifications to the outline that was already there. Do you have any suggestions for creating new units Derpysaurus? Additionally Lolpwnt, if you wanted to use the rules for 40k to represent a fight between the UNSC and the Covenant, the UNSC would count as Imperial Guard while the Spartans would count as Space Marines. A Forerunner army would count as Necrons for the closest approximation. ilniaj

• ilniaj, that is mainly because you are the only one still fixing up the Crunch (I have no idea where Remoon went), and for your suggestions for adding newer units, I guess you can use the Covenant Ki-Psyionoticus as a HQ unit and maybe make them more of a Support Unit by enhancing the affects of their fellow allies depending on the roles as well as having a incredibly powerful Psychic attack power. Furthermore for the side affect, they should be quite expensive as well as having an equal chance of accidentally killing your infantry if you had repeated bad rolls (Similar to a Ork Weirdboy).Derpysaurus

• • I decided to let the crunch be on my part because I didn't agree with a lot of the initial crunch changes ilnaij was making and me changing things back or doing something else with them would have complicated things. I still want to completely rework the Prophet of Regret entry, for one thing. It's also easier to balance things out when one person is going through the codex at a time anyways. I am liking most of the crunch tuning that ilnaij is doing currently along with swapping certain unit entries around. It's going to take more work as we add new units, equipment or rules into the codex as well.

As for the Covenant psychics I was thinking just giving a psyker unit stock powers from the main rulebook with a little extra risk due to the newness of it all (which can be reduced by say, purchasing a more experienced psychic user). Speaking of which, how does the idea of Grunts being the most psychically attuned to the Warp sound? I personally think the idea is hilarious and is worth running with as well. This would also allow for the Covenant to potentially have cheap Psykers (though with a risk of exploding a bit more) to field in battle. Perhaps Prophets and Elites could also potentially be Psykers (though I think special characters rather than units would be more appropriate).

To Lolpwnt, I initially created the base crunch and structure of the codex to balance the Covenant directly to the 40k universe. As such Covenant plasma guns do much less damage than an Imperial plasma gun etc., and I tried to balance stats with the individual units to fit. I did not use a single unit for comparison for the entire codex and instead tried to balance each unit with a corresponding unit from another 40k codex (Ratlings to Jackals, Brutes to Orks, Grunts to Gretchin) taking into account special rules and equipment. I do think your Hover_____ rules make a lot of sense though, and we'll see how we can implement that without putting in too many rules for the individual unit entries.

As for your points with BS5 being rare and the Banshee unreasonably being 11-10-10 instead of 10-10-10 this codex is a work in progress and as such all balancing ideas like these are completely welcome and honestly needed since no one's play tested this as far as I know. Remoon101 (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

• I think the Covie Psycic units should be a group of specialized High-Ranked Elites or Prophets (Ki-Psyionoticus users) since having Grunts as Psykers which, as hilarious as they are, would be quite broken (You are talking about fielding units almost as cheap as Tyranid Hormagaunts, which has the power to unleash a lot of DAKKA while in large masses, could then be potentially turn into a massive suicide Zerg rush if equipped with a Deacon and are in Shooting Phase which could quite render almost every Close-Assault/CQC unit look fucking useless unless if they are in constant Overwatch....and now you are giving them the same power levels as a Psyker....this would literally be turned into a freaking Psyker spam-fest and it would ruin the fun and balance of this Codex no fucking scratch that, the Grunts as weak as they are, have several unique attributes (Eg. Deacon Suicide Charge, Needler 'Supercombine', Plasma Pistol 'Overcharge') that if played by an experience gamer, would quite frankly make a scenario where we can see Khorne Players avoiding CQC (Oh God the irony!) because they risk having their precious Khorne Berserkers having their ass handed to them by a wave of suicide Grunts. To make this extra clear, this is like giving every single Imperial Guardsmen the ability to disable almost any vehicle by a few turns (Overcharge), turning them into walking Krak Bombs and go all Kamikaze if lead by a specialized unit (Deacon) and Psychically butt-fucking everything in numbers(Your suggestion). Yeah...the idea of even giving Grunts slight Psychic powers is too ridiculous and should probably be reserved to...lets say more higher ranked Covies to balance it maybe? ). Furthermore we should also include a few Unique HQ units such as the Grandmaster of Ki-Psyionoticus such like Jiazah 'Thogamee, since the Covenant is really lacking in name characters here.Derpysaurus

Deacons

So, I noticed that Derpysaurus made it that Deacons are a part of the unit entry for Unggoy but is that a good idea? What's wrong with them being an HQ choice? ilniaj

• I would rather prefer them to be bought separately in the way that Tech Marines are bought in the Space Marines codex. Could you move the Deacons to either HQ (as a non-slot filling character that is bought per lance, for example) or to Elites (don't like this idea, there's enough competition there already)? Remoon101 (talk) 23:26, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Done. ilniaj

About Dadab. I'm wondering if I should make him unable to join certain units like the rest of the Deacons or make him able to join any unit so that nasty Death Stars could be formed.--Ilniaj (talk) 05:51, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

If Dadab's a prominent Grunt leader, then it should be complimentary to at least allow him to field one or two Deacons/High level Grunt Ultras IMO. Derpysaurus

Covenant Apocalypse unit, Crunch Rules

• Hey guys should we be right now, constructing the crunch for the Apocalypse units for the Covenant? they seem a bit.....underlooked right now. Derpysaurus
  • Added the Spirit. I think we should finish the units for regular games first. ilniaj

Rtas Vadum Crunch Rules

• I think we should finish up with the Crunch rules with Rtas Vadum here, he is the only character from the special HQ unit set that hasn't had any crunch yet.Derpysaurus

Big Wargear Roundup

I propose that we update the codex and give them an armory (or equivalent) like in the current 6th edition codicies. This would would cut down on the overall size of the codex so that we don't have to repeat options for Elites and Brutes most notably, as well as make things easier for people trying to playtest so they don't have to go back to the entries all the time for prices. Units with unique weapons pricing for balance (ex: Jackals) would keep their current pricing within their entry. In order to make this work, all Elites and Brutes should get their respective sidearm and main weapon standard so they can do the "and/or" wargear swapping. As for the sections I'm still thinking on that, but from the looks of it, we should have:

Infantry Armory

• Restricted Equipment, the equivalent of relics and those 1 of each per detachment items
• Brute Equipment, swapping out for Brute shot, purchase Firebombs, etc.
• Elite Equipment, same thing as Brutes but with the typical Elite options
• Special Equipment
• Heavy Weapons

Vehicle Armory

• The Shield options plus standard vehicle upgrades (if we add any more)

Something along these lines, though this is far from final. Remoon101 (talk) 16:20, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

• Seems neat and organized, although I do like it if you changed the name for the "Elite Equipment" into "Covenant Equipment" since Elites use equipments that are actually from the Covenant Empire AKA every other covenant species save for Brutes use the same equipment as the Elites (Except CQC weapons). Brutes are understandable in that the equipment they use are from native origin. This is too avoid some confusion. Derpysaurus

Prophet of Regret

Remoon wants to rework the Prophet of Regret entry. What do you suggest Remoon? ilniaj

• The Prophet of Regret entry...as in the fluff or the crunch? Derpysaurus
  • I think both since he started typing a freakout into the discussion section when I made that section.
• There is very little fluff that needs changing for the Prophet anyway, so I don't think it should be reworked IMO.Derpysaurus

This still happening?

Hey all, long time watcher, first time poster. Just wondering if this Codex is still under construction. Haven't seen any updates in a while and wanted to check. Thanks! --2SMRT4U

• Technically, the fluffy bits are done; just waiting for anyone to finish the crunch.Derpysaurus

Pricing

I've put in some units (more will be tomorrow since I need to sleep) but I only have vague ideas of what the prices should be. Someone else fill in those gaps for me. ilniaj (talk) 12:05 AM, 16 January 2015 (MST)

Some people might also wonder why I put such a massive number of Hull Points on the Super-Heavy vehicles. After examining the dimensions given by the wikia pages of both settings I found that the Covenant Super-Heavies are massive compared to the 40k Super-Heavies. Lichs are larger than Mantas, Scarabs are larger than Warlord-Class titans and Harvesters are larger than Imperator-Class titans. However, the Halo super-heavies have much less firepower than 40k superheavies so I think its balanced out by that. The Halo super-heavies are Stone Walls. Edit: They may even be less resilient due to lacking an invulnerable save, void shields or holo fields. ilniaj (talk) 10:35 PM, 18 January 2015 (MST)

• The only super-heavy that gets destroyed conventionally is the normal Scarab, the rest of the super-heavies only get destroyed via something going horribly wrong inside (AKA MC blowing shit up) such as in the case for the Lich and Super-Scarab. Furthermore, the Super-Scarab in Halo Wars was seen tanking over a dozen low-powered MAC rounds while it was still under construction, while the Harvester wasn't explicitly shown to have any durability at all. As you can see it is a bit hard to quantify the general toughness of these units.Derpysaurus

• On the topic of super heavies, should we make the Super Scarab have the most powerful offensive damage as seen from Halo Wars and Halo 2 and in turn, make the Harvester have the most defensive capabilities due to its size and mass? Both should be around the same price with one more based on firepower and the other acting as a giant movable stone wall as you mentioned. Derpysaurus
  • I personally don't like the Super Scarab since the fluff for the thing implies that the versions that show up in Halo 2 and that one time appearance in Halo Wars are meant to excavate artifacts instead of being used as a battle platform.--Ilniaj (talk) 04:10, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
• The fluff also imply that the Locusts, Normal Scarabs and Harvesters which are all excavation vehicles can also be retrofitted for war hence why the introduction of the Super-Scarabs should complement the Covenant's 'Titans'. If it is removed then the Covies would be seriously lacking in their Warlord-range 'titans'. The Covenant need a titan class based on offense/assault since the other Super-Heavy walkers/fliers are either defensive or supportive in nature; normal Scarabs can't do the job since they're basically the Imperium equivalent of a Baneblade/Scout Titan and would not last against an Imperium Warlord-class Titan or higher. Also as of recently, the Covenant now receive a buff in their size, they are now a Galactic polity in terms of the IoM and GE. Derpysaurus

I decided to use the old rules for creating your own vehicles and monstrous creatures from Chapter Approved 2004 to make the points costs of a bunch of units in this codex. The rules for that are highly obsolete just so you know so it would be nice if someone came up with something better.--Ilniaj (talk) 00:35, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Warlord Traits

Special thanks go to LordRadical who I stole gifted me the Warlord Traits table. --Ilniaj (talk) 18:59, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

• As well as many unit rules, to which my response is using many entries here as inspiration if not copied outright. --LordRadical (talk) 22:12, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Super-Scarab

To avoid an edit-war we should discuss the Super-Scarab here. The only Super-Scarab shown is incomplete with only a single weapon that is a more powerful version of the Plasma Beam that is fired by the weaker Scarab variants. This is why I decided to classify it in the same way as the Harvester as the Harvester has the same armament (a single powerful weapon) and I don't see there being any gameplay difference between it and the Super-Scarab. If you want to keep the Super-Scarab then I would advise changing the unit entry to say Harvester/Super-Scarab and leave it at that. If you want it to be a separate unit then I suggest you homebrew the Super-Scarab yourself.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 07:59, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

• By the way it has been built, it seems the Super-Scarab is more suited for assault while the Harvester acts more like a giant stonewall. Also I am not sure with the issue of the Brute Bodyguard, please put your reasoning here first. I think we should put a list on the direct roles for the Covenant's apocalypse units. Derpysaurus
  • Scarab (Deutoros): Act as a Scout Titan with a massive troop placement but offset with lack of shields and crippling weak points.
  • Scarab (Protos): Act as a Reaver Titan with a massive troop placement but offset with lack of shields.
  • Scarab (Type-36/Devastator): A unit specialized in taking down super heavy flyers like Tau Manta's but is almost useless against smaller ground units.
  • Super-Scarab: A Warlord equivalent with a strong emphasis on assaulting enemy positions.
  • Harvester: A unit that has a strong emphasis as a giant stone wall/meatshield that has lower firepower than a Super Scarab and its slower but have much higher resistance.
  • Kraken: A unit meant to wreck fortifications and defenses but is utterly weak against other Titans and super heavies.
  • Lich: A support unit and a giant flyer.
  • Behemoths: Gargantuan creatures that takes on the role of Imperial Knights.

The reason I think that the Brute Bodyguard should be removed is that it was implied that they were a replacement to the honor guard after the great schism. I also don't see how the differences between the Super-Scarab and the Harvester could be represented on the tabletop since in the game vehicles that are supposedly faster and more maneuverable often have the exact same movement stats as ones that are slower and less maneuverable in the fluff. Should the Devastator Scarab cost the same as the Deutoros (I see it having the same stats since it is also controlled by a lekgolo hive) or be less expensive due to only being effective against flyers?--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:11, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

• I believed that the Brute Bodyguards was meant to just protect the Chieftains while the honor guards are the ones protecting the Prophets. For the Super-Scarab and Harvester, I was aiming for these two to be analogues to the two different classification of Emperor Titans, whith each performing a different role, hence why the Super-Scarab should be a more close range assault Titan that can effectively combat the OPness of the Imperial Warlord Titan while the Harvester acts more like a mobile defense base (Similar in terms of the Imperial Leviathan but without the capacity to hold vehicles and the extra Dakka) that has a higher frontal and side armor, longer range but weaker attack and slower speed and maneuverability; I hope the differences should be quite clear. And lastly, the Devastator should be the same price as the Deutoros as I believe that by making it cheaper, it allows players to field more Devastators which will completely rape any super-heavy flyer dependent armies and break the game since the Devastator is armed with a gun that is known to take down UNSC Longswords (A flying baneblade essentially) and damage UNSC Frigates and Cruisers. Than again, you could make it cheaper by offsetting the Devastator with a horrendously slow reload time. Derpysaurus

Buffing up the Prelates

In my opinion. Prelates should be extremely powerful. In the fluff, a single Prelate was able to do this shit:

• can effortlessly kill 4 Elites in CQC, before 3 of them can even react too.
• can move around far faster than Elites and Brutes (and Spartans in all likelihood) thanks to an anti-gravity belt he can glide around with.
• can stalemate Rtas Vadum, aka Half-Jaw, in a melee duel.
• can deflect and dodge incoming plasma fire Jedi-style, and compete with Elites capable of doing the same.
• has self-repairing armor, a motion tracker (and other advanced HUD features), zero-gravity maneuvering gear, and an energy shield capable of withstanding an Energy Sword strike and at least three "hypersonic" rounds fired from a Covenant Carbine.

The Prelates really needs a buff you know. They should not have a lower weapons skill or ballistic skill than a brute chieftain. Prelates are essentially Covenant Phoenix Lords and should be treated as such. Derpysaurus

That may be true in the fluff but gameplay wise, we have to consider the purposes of Elite/Brute HQ choices and Prophet HQ choices. An Elite/Brute HQ choice is meant to be a combat character, they will get into the thick of shootouts, smash aside units in close combat and challenge the opponents characters in fights to the death. In contrast, a Prophet is meant to be a support character like Chaplains, Chaos Sorcerers, Ministorum Priests, Farseers, Changers of Ways and Etherials. All of the aforementioned characters can be used for combat, but there are other characters in the army that can also do so better and/or cheaper. Prelates should be the same from a gameplay standpoint. In addition, from a fluff standpoint, the only Prelate shown was the last of its kind which in fiction, usually means best of its kind as well so that Prelate was probably exceptional among them.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 01:01, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

• Then again the majority of the Prelates died when the Flood arrived. And you know how OCP the Flood are to technology and numbers. They were possible outnumbered and swamped. But I see your point.Derpysaurus

Jiazah 'Thogamee's Psychic Powers

So, I was looking over the codex, which I absolutely love, and something caught my attention. Based on what we know of him, don't you think Fulmination would fit him? Or is it impossible to appropriate that for this hypothetical codex? [[1]]

• I believe so. As Covenant psykers focus more on biomancy than anything else. So I suppose fulmination can suffice. Derpysaurus

7th to 8th Edition

I'll be free to work on this codes by this weekend but before that I have a single question. Should we leave this page as is and create a new one for 8th edition or just edit this one? The 8th edition of Warhammer is simplified but people seem to like it for fixing the game balance. I think simply replacing it is okay.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:46, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

• I believe we can turn the entire 7th ed rules into a collapsible page whilst we write the 8th ed rules underneath the collapsed 7th ed rules. I believe its neater and is easier to access for those who would like to see both the rules at the same time. For Codex Banished, we fortunately don't have the same problem as it is still largely empty of the crunch. Derpysaurus

You've probably noticed that I've been replacing the entries. Don't worry, the 7th edition version isn't gone, it's in the history section. You can pull it out of there and do whatever you want with it.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 20:01, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks for the hard work. It looks pretty damn fantastic. I currently have no complaints here. Derpysaurus

And now it's finished, more finished that the previous version was even. If you put the 7th edition rules anywhere I think I'll finish those as well. Speaking of which, will you complete 'The Glassing of Djangoris Alphs IV' fanfic at any point. Since I added a weapon that was used to slay a Chapter Master you better include that as well.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 00:36, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

• Man. I completely forgot about that fanfic. But yeah, after I am done reforming the Chaos Space Marine Template, I will try and finish the fanfic.Derpysaurus

Let me know if you do anything with the 7th edition rules. I'll add relics and Apocalypse rules to it.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 01:39, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Is this codex still being worked on? I'm willing to take a crack at it for 8th/9th edition and make some changes or something. -Pizzasmart at 9:45, 27 May 2020 (AEST)

• Go ahead. Derpysaurus (talk) 04:45, 27 May 2020 (UTC)