Talk:Dawn of War

From 1d4chan

Would a gallery be better then adding a few pictures to the side? Anonymous 22:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The page is (or would be, if people would flesh it out beyond my barebones crap a little bit) long enough that a few side images interspersed throughout the body of the text is fine, but it should still have a gallery section for extra stuff. --Carcer 22:17, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

"It is riven with terrible bugs (including some that make whole factions unplayable)"

wat

Dunno about that, took it from another article and added it in, feel free to remove it. --Myomoto 23:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

We need the box art from the other games. --Myomoto 23:41, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Anonymous 09:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

As a long time competitive DoW player, I edited the article to go into more detail on everything. And please don't rage, everything I wrote is true. NightRapier 07:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

This might be a nit-pick, but the METAL BOXES meme is listed on this page as having originated from both Dawn of War Vanilla and Soulstorm. Which one is it? I was under the impression that it hailed from DoW Vanilla, but meh, dunno, somebody else might know differently. BladePHF 10:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Baldstorm. Comes from Carron's rage fest on the SMurf's home turf.
Also, am I the only one who got reasonable loading times with Baldstorm? Seriously, loading times were identical to Dark Crusade for me. --Anon 14:46, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok can someone explain to me how the balance is so amazingly broken? Because I honestly don't get it. --Rodwell 13:08, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

  • I'll cover this. --Jaimas
    • Winter Assault was known for its hideous balance. Part of this came from the "streamlining" of the tech trees and half-assed attempts to differentiate the different factions which only led to unit obsolescence and fail. A good example was if you played Chaos in Vanilla DOW; Winter Assault stripped special weapons from Chaos Marines, removed researches, and fundamentally made only one unit - cultists - in the army actually scale to any notable degree. In return, they got the blatantly overpowered but tactically-retarded Khorne Berserker, a unit which took 4 patches to even begin to smooth out. The other races faired little better, losing researches, having ridiculous changes added, and so on; bugs on top of this made the situation worse. The Imperial Guard were equally-borked on launch, dealing so much damage in melee combat as to make short work of buildings. The system was set up badly, and was noted as such; much of the game was a tier-race to abuse whatever blatantly overpowered unit a race had.
      • Things got worse with Dark Crusade. Despite their being mechanical fixes to undo the problems caused by the streamlining of the tech trees, the new game had a host of problems; Every unit now had a flat 15% Accuracy rate on the move, overpenalizing units who ordinarily had high accuracy and buffing those who ordinarily had low accuracy - while providing, all the while, favoritism to high-fire rate weapons over slow-firing ones. As bad as this was, however, it was worse in regards to the new races: The Necrons had the ability to go over double their pop cap and numerous replays existed of Necron Players winning maps while controlling no Strategic Points whatsoever. The Tau were even worse; while they lacked the OMGWTFLOL resource hilarity of the Necrons, their range and power let them dominate small maps and at launch, they could crank out an endless supply of Tier-4 Heavies in the form of Krootoxen. The new units were also pretty bad, with several being either irretrievably bugged or problematic, such as the Imperial Guard Heavy Weapons Team. Relic did nothing to fix this over nearly 8 months, and only one patch occured. A second was promised, but never came....
        • When Soulstorm hit, it launched with an Infinite Resource Bug for the Sisters of Battle, the abuse of a Trainer for Dark Crusade which worked fine on Soulstorm and was being used extensively, flying units added which, as was the case for other added units, were broken in half and flew bizzarely, as the system was never really designed for Flyers. The Dark Eldar had less-glaring balance issues, but still notable ones; the DE Relic Unit had a special attack which refreshed multiple times, ergo doing over a thousand damage in one go, and allowed it to erase entire armies. All of these, atop DC's problems, and Relic didn't patch it for nearly a year, condemning the game to be a competitive failure and widely leaving the game hideously balanced despite numerous and repeated attempts by the balance team to fix it.

One other small bug I haven't seen mentioned for Dark Crusade. In skirmish mode Imperial Guard AI players never teched up. Ever. It would stay at Tier 1 no matter how many resources the AI had. It was never fixed and I think the problem remained in Soulstorm as well.

DC and SS both say that the Tau tech tree can be used to give both sides of the tech. Can someone explain to me how the hell you do this, because despite my best attempts to do this on SS 1.0 it doesn't work.

Is anyone else pissed that relic removed all forms of LAN in the latest update?


Probably not the best place to ask, but the rest of the internet appears to be useless so far - whenever I try to run Soulstorm on my Windows 8.1 PC, it claims that my OS is too outdated to run, and compatability troubleshooting doesn't work on any accounts. Any way to fix this?

I've added one little other tip for playing Soulstorm under its entry. I own the game and play it frequently, you see. I was thinking- would it be worth it to add in a small summary section on how the factions generally play in the game? One thing I noticed is that you say 'those other gus got back up and raped you to death', but Necrons in-game, whether you play as or against them, don't always get back up. I've known some to go down first time and stay down. It's just a suggestion, and I'd be happy to do it all myself, but I'm not going to act unless given a green light. Khor'neth, 9:56 GMT

I'm going to have to disagree with that tip. In my opinion the best way to play is to get a foothold on all planets ASAP, and then conquer planets/territories by going after any HQ in range (by which I mean only attack any HQ if they're directly next to your landing territory, mostly to prevent counter-attacks), before slowly conquering the places one-by-one. If you wait then the computer fortifies their defences so much on the last planet that even securing your first territory becomes ridiculously hard, as you need to spread yourself so thin to deal with all the points. For the record I play the campaign exclusively on hard so maybe it's not necessary for normal or easy, I don't know, but I'm just going to guess that a tactic that works on hard should also steamroll easy or normal. As for the tips, a few would be fine in their own section in my opinion, but they shouldn't really be a full strategy guide on how to play. -- Triacom (talk) 09:05, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
Ok, I see where you're coming from. I've personally not played on hard, so I'm not aware of that. All I know is that that particular tactic has worked for me in the past, so I'll revise that. Thanks for the input. I value stuff like that- it tells me what's wrong with what I've said and suggests an improvement. Khor'neth.

On Eldar balance[edit]

As suggested, I bring this discussion here.

So, as I see from the article there is a rather strong opinion that Eldar in Dark Crusade have been heavily favoured by the developers, to the point of being overpowered. The reason for this overpowering is supposedly the fact that most developers are/were Eldar players (not sure where this information comes from). I don't really agree with this (Necrons are op in DK), so I would like to bring some points against what seems the general consensus, since nobody else bothered to discuss this until now.

There are several mentions of Eldar being generically "overpowered" without mentioning specific details; I will dismiss those cases because unsupported claims have no more value than your own opinions based on taste. There are four specific Eldar mechanics that the writer complains about.

  1. The Harlequin's Kiss deals 10000+ damage, and Harlequins can one-shot Commanders attached to a squad. This complaint is both incorrect and superficial. First of all, the Harlequin's Kiss deals 4000 damage, not "10000+". Secondly, Harlequins are expensive, have low health, and take up infantry pop slots. This basically means that their only value is given by their special ability. The Harlequin works mostly for sniping commanders (dying shortly after due to ranged fire), and if commanders could be rendered immune to his ability just by attaching them to a squad that would make the Harlequin completely useless. Not to mention that his special ability doesn't work against everything: the Daemon Prince is immune, for example. If you fear your commander will get sniped, just don't send him out all alone and retreat him if you see a Harlequin, who should be taken down with ranged fire.
  2. The Avatar of Khaine gives +10 pop cap to infantry and vehicles, so Eldar players can keep him in the base and outspam the enemy with a more numerous army. This is even more laughable than the previous point. You gain +4/+10 extra pop, NOT +10/+10. This extra pop is not free, but you need to build extra Webway Gates. The Avatar is ludicrously expensive (400/400/5 vehicle pop) and keeping him chilling in your base is a huge waste of resources. The Avatar competes with the cheaper and more versatile Fire Prism, because the tech Annihilate the Enemy gives you access to both. When you churn out your two Fire Prisms and still have resources to spare for the Avatar, it means you already have a big advantage. You'll be getting that far into lategame in 1 out of 100 games anyway.
  3. Fleet of Foot is tantamount to god mode because of the accuracy nerf while moving. Ok, how are Eldar going to survive against the other races, which in early game are generally sporting stronger or more numerous units? Eldar don't have any jump unit in Tier 1, so their mobility (especially in closed maps) is terrible without Fleet of Foot. They do scale well with tiers, but early on they just die too easily without the extra speed granted by Fleet of Foot. As most competitive players would argue, Eldar are rubbish without that tech.
  4. Fire Prisms are the most durable Tier 2 tanks in the game. They are, because, you know, they cost more than the others (also the upgrades cost more).


Those are supposedly specific strong features of Eldar gameplay. One (Fleet of Foot) is true: Eldar play a lot with mobility and fast deployment. Another (the Harlequin) is a decent tool in your shed, but not really overpowered. The third (the Avatar) is mostly irrelevant because of how rarely games reach that point. The fourth is a non-issue.

Now, there is really no counter to Eldar?

Hardly.

  • As already mentioned, Eldar units are vulnerable early game: for this reason they're extremely micro intensive, because you cannot afford to lose squads for free.
  • Eldar have a clear hard-counter system: their units aren't all-purpose (like Space Marines, for example) but are meant to counter specific enemies. This means your decision making needs to be spot on, otherwise you stick around with worthless units.
  • Eldar are more power hungry than other races (bar Necrons) so raiding their Generators is extremely effective. Assault Marines/Raptors/Stormboyz raids are virtually uncatchable by Eldar. There is nothing you can do, really, unless hope that your opponent is bad.
  • Conversely, Eldar can't train anything good against buildings in Tier 1 (Banshees are decent but squishy without Call for War), so it's hard to claim back map control.
  • Eldar get totally ABUSED by Wraith spam. Nothing they can do about this.


I understand that people who play this game are mostly casual players and randoms who don't really have an idea about how the game should be played, but this is not a good reason to claim a race is overpowered just because their subpar gameplay cannot deal with it. I understand that those randoms play Warhammer 40000: The Sims, bunkered in their base for 30 mins, and rage when the normal AI rolls over them because it had uncontested map control, but this is not a good reason to punish the lategame of one single race. I understand that 20+ years of Eldar being the punchbag of the Galaxy gave the impression to some people that they should be a walkover in any game, but this is an RTS, and when you pick a race you are supposed to rely on your BRAIN to win, and not on some badly written GW fluff.

So yeah, I feel like the strong opinions on Eldar being overpowered aren't really supported: if the reason of existence of this Wiki is to give a reliable and sufficiently neutral point of view, I would argue that some rework is mandatory in order not to spread factually incorrect information.

PS: my ego is not in any way involved in this discussion, and as a matter of fact I don't play Eldar (neither in DoW or in tabletop). 151.64.187.139 17:11, 7 March 2021 (UTC)