Talk:Empyreal Knight

Alright I looked at the empyreal knight and this is simply not true on the summon ability. They can only summon one creature, period, in order to get summon monster 9 you need to be level 20 in the class, a wizard, cleric, and druid would have had it for a long time before that. You can also only cast as many times as is your cha modifier, so if you have 20 cha it would be only 5 times. It is also not the summoner ability, it basically gives you the spell summon monster without the ability to summon multiple creatures. You use your lay on hands and channel energy feature for this. Since you do not have the summoner class feature you can't take those feats that break the class, Empower summon is a metamagic feat that does not work on spell like abilities. There is also not a feat that is called celestial summon so no way to get it down to a standard action there

For the resistance thing an asimar and tiefling can already do that sort of stuff, not seeing a complaint there. In order to get truespeak you need to be 15th level, when a caster probably has access to that spell for awhile. True it is permanent but that is about it.

link to SRD[1] Extra Summons [2] Stats you need a level in summoner to even get the feat, you also can only take it every five levels.

All in all this article is not really accurate and it seems like someone is just trying to powergame without reading the rules prereqs for the feats

Ah, I DM'ed a campaign with someone playing this unfortunately, and it got called because of his retarded shit. I would not however that the RAW for the Empyreal Knight summons says only one "Ally" can be active at a time, which could be interpreted as one use of Celestial Ally, which worked as Summon Monster. Evilexecutive (talk) 23:18, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Well it is true that you can summon up to your charisma modifier per day, So you could summon three creatures in an encounter if you spent three turns summoning. However I believe their is a rule for summon monster that prevents them from summoning a monster of summoning minions, so it is why when you summon a balor it can't summon a bunch of demons. So at 20th level they could summon three astral deva's in three turns if they wanted to I suppose. However by that point it would be a drop in the water compared to what a wizard or cleric could summon. Honestly the immunity to petrification is not that bad as I hardly see it come up in games, disease is something that is the biggest factor in games to be honest.Dragoon508 (talk) 23:38, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, you're right there that summoned critters can't summon more critters. They can however use their own spells, so Devas could sit there and buff the party with their auras, and cast spells in turn. Where it snowballs out into nonsense is that if you start with 20 Charisma, and get items to enhance it later to up to 28, it means you get to summon up to 9 times. Master Summoner has it better, as they get their CHA+5 for number of summons, plus all of the buffs. Evilexecutive (talk) 23:45, 19 June 2015 (UTC)