Talk:Gland War Veteran
Stable DNA?[edit]
In the section about the differences between Gland Warriors and Space Marines, it talks about Gland Warriors having a completely altered DNA strand and are classified as their very own sub-species of human. I just want to challenge where that came from? From what we all know, while Astartes aren't "strictly" genetically altered, the implants they receive do come from an external genetic source (the Primarchs) and the progenoid gland exists to make sure that the other implants are regulated within their bodies and to generate new implants once they have matured, so they do have non-hunan DNA flowing around their bodies. With Space Marines being recognised as their own sub-species of humanity under "Homo Sapiens Astartes"
From what I can find in Rogue Trader and White Dwarf, Gland Warriors are very similar to Astartes in principle, simply getting a set of "tox filters to the lungs and blood ways, artificial vat grown organs and drug producing gland implants".Into the Storm But do not necessarily have to be implanted as children, nor is there any mention of them passing these traits to descendants. so anyone can be made into a Gland Warrior by undergoing the (admittedly painful) surgical procedure. The issue of introducing new DNA to the human genome may very well come from the implication that these new implants may have developed from research into the Tyranids, which may very well be heretical. But doesn't actually infer that they represent a "stable" breeding subset of humanity --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 20:48, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
- I believe that the primary reason why they are classified as a sub-species while the space marines aren't, is because they are equipped with organs that is far more specialized in killing tyranids than the general purpose of space marines. At least that is what I got out of. Some of the excuses I hear on the differentiation is that the genetic alteration of the space marines came from Primarchs which are considered a different stage of human (Homo sapien sapien) evolution (Although the Primarchs aren't classified as a different sub-species the same way psykers in the Imperium aren't classified as a sub-species but as a different stage of human evolution), while other proper abhumans are considered to be 'deviating' from the human form. Likewise on the other hand the Glandies got their genetic alteration from a unknown and separate source and as you said, might be a semi-heretical source such as modified Tyranid DNA AKA reverse gene stealers, thus 'deviating' from the more human (Albeit more augmented) space marines. Additionally, Glandies have to be far more genetically altered to combat and resist the invasive tyranid organisms that even space marines fail occasionally. This is why the Emprah, the Primarchs and their space marines aren't considered to be abhumans, their DNA hasn't fully deviate from the human genome, there may be some mutant or augmented quarks, but they are on a whole far more human than the Glandies. Of course that is the best I could get out of. The Glandies I would say is yet another example of Games Workshop's fail in simple biology. In all honesty I would like to classify Glandies as just normal augmented humans and Ogryns as a separate genus all together rather than a sub-species, but alas I can't change official fluff. Derpysaurus
- It wouldn't really be right to classify the Astartes non-human as most of their code is either human, or it can easily be traced back to humans (even through the Primarchs and the Emperor), to an extent anyway. There's a difference between modifying genetic tissue to make the Primarchs, and then modifying gene-seed that comes from the Primarchs to add to regular people, as opposed to creating entirely new organs to give to somebody. Despite their appearances the Space Marines don't have to have their DNA modified to work with their new organs whereas the Gland War Veterans are. Honestly I don't really consider them to be abhumans either, but there does exist decent arguments for why'd they be considered abhumans. -- Triacom (talk) 04:58, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
- It still hasn't really answered the question about Gland War Veterans being a "stable sub-species". I should point out that I'm not disputing whether the Glandies arent Abhumans (which by definition only means a separation from normal Human existence) but are they listed among the 15 recognised stable strains known to the Imperium? Nothing I can find suggests that any of the genetic tampering to their bodies carries over into a second generation, which is what the article attempts to suggest, and is what I'm challenging. Instead from what I can find is that the only reason new Gland War Veterans arise is because Mechanicum "Genetors both Authorised and Renegade" have the knowledge (or artistry) to perform the necessary surgeries, essentially making them very similar to Astartes, albeit with a different set of implants that augment their bodies chemistry, rather than their physiology. --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 05:15, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
- I mean it seems the question on whether or not Glandies are considered a stable sub-species along the likes of Ogryns and Squats is already self-told. We know that the Inquisition has a keen interest in them, if they were unstable they would be treated with utmost suspicion like the Beastmen by the higher ups yet the three surviving Glandies were just simply 'debriefed'. That and the fact that the Glandies are a relatively new abhuman species being only notified in one major engagement is probably why they (along with the Afriel Strains) aren't listed in the 15 recognised stable strains yet. They are abhumans in the literal making. A military secret akin to the Afriel Strains. A prototype per say. With the way the Imperium is run, it is best if the knowledge of the Glandies and Afriel Strains to be exclusive to only the Inquisition, Mechanicus, some parts of the Imperial Guard and the higher ups until they deem it safe to the general public. And to be honest, the debate on whether or not Glandies can reproduce with their genetic deviation is still up in the air, although I believe it is likely as unlike Astartes, Glandies haven't have their brains scrambled to be sexually disinterested, that and their DNA has been altered to an extent where it is likely that it would carry it on in their reproductive cells and organs. Derpysaurus
- I'll take your logic there. I might have a shot at the article later today, just to clear up my confusion, I won't go rewriting it though, just present it a different way. --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 06:16, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
- I mean it seems the question on whether or not Glandies are considered a stable sub-species along the likes of Ogryns and Squats is already self-told. We know that the Inquisition has a keen interest in them, if they were unstable they would be treated with utmost suspicion like the Beastmen by the higher ups yet the three surviving Glandies were just simply 'debriefed'. That and the fact that the Glandies are a relatively new abhuman species being only notified in one major engagement is probably why they (along with the Afriel Strains) aren't listed in the 15 recognised stable strains yet. They are abhumans in the literal making. A military secret akin to the Afriel Strains. A prototype per say. With the way the Imperium is run, it is best if the knowledge of the Glandies and Afriel Strains to be exclusive to only the Inquisition, Mechanicus, some parts of the Imperial Guard and the higher ups until they deem it safe to the general public. And to be honest, the debate on whether or not Glandies can reproduce with their genetic deviation is still up in the air, although I believe it is likely as unlike Astartes, Glandies haven't have their brains scrambled to be sexually disinterested, that and their DNA has been altered to an extent where it is likely that it would carry it on in their reproductive cells and organs. Derpysaurus
- That's fine. Derpysaurus
