Talk:Gotrek & Felix

From 1d4chan

Ă==Age of Sigmar and future prospect== I asked Josh Reynold on Tumblr (http://occultdetectives.tumblr.com/post/156849384602/do-you-think-that-there-will-be-a-day-gotrek-and), and he said that some writers at BL have already been thinking about bringing Gotrek & Felix back in Age of Sigmar. So yes, the hope is there. --Fireminer (talk) 01:48, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

  • ...how the fuck would that work? Felix died and Gotrek blew up. They'd have to end the Fyreslayer plot to reconstruct Grimnir and asspull Felix back as a Stormcast-fuck, that's the plan, isn't it? --Thannak (talk) 02:49, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Who know? Stranger things have happened. I can think of a story which an amnesian man and a Fyreslayer find out that they are really the "shards" of Felix and Gotrek, therefore they journeyed together looking for their memories. In any case, it is a good thing. The Age of Sigmar lore is too undeveloped at the moment. They need something flagship like Gotrek and Felix.--Fireminer (talk) 14:25, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Check this out[edit]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1784967866 Looks like it's not over yet.--Super12345 (talk) 03:24, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

  • All I can say is: "wut". --Thannak (talk) 04:26, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

On the Old World portal[edit]

I want to address this: To some this might be considered a dick move on Gotrek’s part while others see it as a metaphor for the fans of FB growing used to AoS, the latter of which being supported by an interview with David Guymer in the Sept. 2019 White Dwarf (clearly more wishful thinking than reality).

The reason I said it was a dick move was not because of what Gotrek did, but because it can be read as "yes we could bring that back, but fuck you" from the writers. Furthermore if there's anything we've learned from the Old World announcement, it's that the people who didn't like AoS didn't "grow used to AoS", it's that they just became less vocal about it. I've also seen more people who don't like AoS thanks to games like the Total War: Warhammer and Vermintide series. Let's also not forget that Gotrek deciding he's a Fyreslayer is dumb, because that means he's willingly joining a faction that allies itself with Chaos, and that's something he would never do, period. -- Triacom (talk) 19:08, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

  • First I’m sorry for my wide eyed optimism. And second, the whole “identifying as a Fyreslayer” might be a bit iffy since in Ghoulslayer he still acts like he hates them and goes off on a few people for being mistaken as one. GreySeerCriak (talk) 20:56, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
It's fine to be optimistic, sometimes it's just misplaced, like it was with me when I originally wrote on the AoS page that tensions between the sides were dying down. Also if that part's iffy then we should remove it. -- Triacom (talk) 21:20, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Gotrek and the Fyreslayers[edit]

I should probably point out that Fyreslayers allying with Chaos is not a given circumstance with their faction as a whole, it's more an occasional lapse in their morals on their quest for Ur-Gold. A flaw in their judgment and character. Hell, there are even Fyreslayer lodges who have sworn to never compromise their morals by working for Chaos no matter how much Ur-Gold is offered, such as Hermdar or Tangrim. Keep in mind that Ur-Gold is not only a sacred religious object to them, but a highly addictive and destructive magical substance. It literally scrambles their brains the more is implanted inside them, not to mention the mental effect it has when hoarded in comparison to Dwarves with regular Gold. Gotrek is lucky since he had such an affinity to Grimnir in his life in the Old World, wielding his axe and what not, it made him almost like an avatar of the god and able to wield large portions of his power. Bear Eater (talk) 17:38, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Very true, but for Gotrek it’s the very principal that they would work with Chaos that upsets him. He doesn’t know of all the other lodges, so he still sees Fyreslayers as one unified whole.GreySeerCriak (talk) 17:49, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
A Fyreslayer outright tells Gotrek in the first Realmslayer book that they'll ally with Chaos if they're paid enough, regardless of who they're fighting against and this is an issue when getting paid is one of their main motivations (arguably their biggest one). Now yes this isn't the case for all of them, however this is still Gotrek's introduction to them, and it would be wildly out of character for him to even think of calling himself a Fyreslayer after learning this as every single one of them would've been tainted by association. It would be as if he decided to do some jobs for Hobgoblins in Fantasy because they're arguably not as terrible as the Greenskins who regularly prey on Dwarfs. -- Triacom (talk) 19:11, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
Also worth pointing out Gotrek is a Warhammer Dwarf. In their worldview the actions of one member of a race reflects the entire race and all sleights, failures, and lapses in judgement require payment of gold or deaths to make up for. The only exception is Chaos Dwarfs, which are considered an entirely different race from Dwarfs despite them not recognizing such a difference in other races, one that must be eradicated without mercy like greenskins, Skaven, and the rest of Chaos. To him, Fyreslayers who work with Chaos must all take the Slayer Oath and seek death, give up not only the treasures they gained but far exceeding it, or are just another kind of Chaos Dwarf. None of which are mutually exclusive. --Thannak (talk) 18:42, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
Exactly, not to mention Dwarfs in Fantasy think that any Dwarf who doesn't share their view, that somebody like those Chaos-aligned Fyreslayers have done something unthinkable and need to pay for it, or who doesn't go out of their way to make them pay for it might as well have done the deed themselves. The only way they (Old World Dwarfs) can safely say that those Chaos-aligned Dwarfs are separate from themselves is to call them out on it and actively work against them, and/or separate their entire existence from them in the same way they separated the Chaos Dwarfs. Since Fyreslayer lodges are still fighting for profit and not actively trying to destroy the ones who ally themselves with Chaos, they'd still all be tainted by association even if those Order-aligned lodges have never taken any deal with Chaos themselves. -- Triacom (talk) 19:11, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
I think that's the confusion behind Gotrek calling himself a Fyreslayer. It's not him declaring allegiance to the Fyreslayer faction as a whole, but rather him taking on a new identity to add to his old one, as he grows accustomed to the Mortal Realms and being a Warhammer Dwarf living in them. He may be firmly against what he sees with the Fyreslayers he's met compromise their morals for Ur-Gold, but perhaps that will be a more central dilemma in future adventures, with him either more directly confronting this practice or perhaps meeting Fyreslayers who are more honorable. Bear Eater (talk) 19:57, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
There's literally no reason for him to call himself a Fyreslayer, it does nothing for him but associate himself with a group of people who think Ur-Gold to be more valuable than anything else (something he disagrees with, both as a Slayer and a Dwarf) and it associates him with a group known to ally with Chaos, which is something he would never do. Furthermore the only way he'd tolerate "honourable" Fyreslayers is if they were actively hunting down and killing other Fyreslayers who'd allied with Chaos in the past and not working for the Ur-Gold, or if they took up the Slayer oath. -- Triacom (talk) 19:11, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
Okay then. Then the next question is how much does Gotrek's personal beliefs from the Old World mean to himself after all that he's been through, in particular his Oaths and his notion of what Dwarves are. After all, Gotrek is no ordinary Dwarf at this point, both physically and definitely mentally, let alone the extraordinary circumstances he has found himself in. Firstly, his Oaths and Grudges from before were either tied to the Dwarven race of the Old World, who are all gone, or to Grimnir himself, whom Gotrek believes lied to him and is also dead. At that point, Gotrek is kind of left in a state of zero, and has to figure out what to make of his existence in the Realms. Secondly, considering how much the Dwarves have diverged in AOS, with Dispossessed, Kharadron and Fyreslayer in all their variations, it's safe to say there's room for exploration, even from an Old World character like Gotrek. Thirdly, within the idea of the Slayer Oath and Fyreslayers killing other Fyreslayers, considering the Old World's Slayer Oath would not be same as whatever the equivalent is in the Realms, such a demand would fall flat with the Fyreslayers. Not to mention that such infighting might be seen as not only bad for business for some Fyreslayers, but also in some cases downright kinslaying, since Lodges branch off from older Lodges and have family ties. At this point, all that is left for Gotrek is trying to make sense of his situation and rectifying what he can with those he still can, mainly the Gods. Other than that, he's a free Dwarf. (aside from now being a reluctant Avatar of the God he believes lied to him) Bear Eater (talk) 17:52, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
Having gone through all of Ghoulslayer, his personal beliefs seem to be one of the only things that matter to him now. He sets aside the effort to save an entirely different group of humans because they view their oaths and their ancestors with the same seriousness and reverence as the Old World Dwarfs, and at the end of the book not only are those people more like the Old World Dwarfs more than ever in their beliefs, but Gotrek resolves to put aside seeking his death until he's 'fixed' the Mortal Realms. Naturally one of the ways he intends on 'fixing' them is by making those beliefs more prominent in them and in case you're curious, he's done everything possible throughout the books to distance himself as much as he can from the setting's current Dwarfs. Every time he meets them they've disgusted him, and according to him he didn't think the Mortal Realms had anything of value until he met those humans I just mentioned. -- Triacom (talk) 18:06, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
I stand corrected a bit, as I haven't gotten to Ghoulslayer yet. Bear Eater (talk) 18:19, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Where is Felix[edit]

I'm calling it now, He's Celestant-Prime.

I’m pretty sure it’s been all but confirmed the Celestant-Prime is Karl Franz.GreySeerCriak (talk) 16:27, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Here's my logic. This is Felix Motherfucking Jaeger. He has fought and killed more beings aligned with Chaos than any one individual in the mortal realms, perhaps even the old world as well save Gotrek himself. There is no way he's an ordinary stormcast grunt, At the very minimum he's a Lord-Celestant. If not his own Lord-Commander -- BeastsOfHysh (talk) 18:29, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
He's not, the Celestant-prime is described as being a former ruler (Felix never was), and Gotten supposedly talked to Felix in Ghoulslayer. -- Triacom (talk) 18:16, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
That Felix was pretty much confirmed as a lie told by the sand wizard to get Gotrek to reveal the location of the ancestors, pulled from Gotrek's own memories. I don't believe he's dead. -- BeastsOfHysh (talk) 18:29, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
More than likely he isn’t. It is likely that he is remade as some kind of Stormcast, though I don’t know if he’d be one of the big heads of the faction. Felix never struck me as a leader type. Slaying monsters and keeping Gotrek in check is one thing, but it’s not the same as leading an entire Chamber, let alone a Stormhost.GreySeerCriak (talk) 18:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
I disagree with your take on Felix's character. One of his defining character traits is Impostor Syndrome. He has displayed heroism and leadership (off the top of my head in Skavenslayer when he lead the rescue of Countess Emmanuelle) worthy of heading a Stormhost. He just doesn't believe he does when it's clear to everyone else. If anything his sense of honor and need to do the right thing mixed with the nagging feeling that he doesn't know what he's doing could be an interesting character study -- BeastsOfHysh (talk) 19:57, 17 December 2020 (UTC)