From 1d4chan

Um... what?[edit]

So here is this paragraph:

Harlequins are notable as xenos to the Imperium since the Harlequins do not restrict their visits to the Eldar. In the Harlequins' view, they must perform their work for anyone and everyone who may benefit and learn the lessons from The Fall, and along the way inspire a little more hope for the galaxy. Thus, Harlequin troupes are a frequent sight on Imperial worlds, and exceptionally among xenos, the Imperium allows the Harlequin traveling bands full access to their worlds, as even the High Lords of Terra feel that one can only benefit from their beautiful plays.

In all the time that I have been immersed in 40k I have never, not once, read that Harlequins commonly, and more importantly OPENLY, visit and perform at Imperial worlds with full access. Like, really dudes?

Maybe that was the case in the oldest, dustiest Rogue Trader lore, but it certainly isn't any more.

In short, this whole paragraph seems like bullshit to me. Can anyone substantiate a source for this information? If not, I propose that this entire paragraph be deleted, and that the "Eldar Ambassadors?" sub-section be heavily re-worked. --Cavgunner (talk) 03:42, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

If your contention is that Xenos aren't allowed openly on Imperial Worlds... no, that's not defensible. The Gravalax Incident shows clearly that in the absence of oversight from Terra or the Ecclesiarchy, Imperial worlds CAN and DO allow Xenos to come and go freely. This is why the Tau are such an insidious problem, because as long as they don't go in shooting the Gue'la will tolerate them and their lucrative trade. Stryxis, Jokaero, and Eldar Corsairs are tolerated for the same reasons. Piroko (talk) 01:22, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
Did you write that piece? If you did, I would like to see some more substantiation than the rather obvious claim that this sort of thing could happen in the absence of strict oversight. The notion of Harlequins performing freely among incredulous Imperial subjects while the entire planet's civil and defense institutions meekly look on seems to be a stretch, to say the least. I'm not saying it NEVER happens. But yes, it's I'm absolutely contending that Xenos are not allowed on Imperial worlds barring a lack of oversight, corruption, deviation from the Imperial standard, or some other exceptional circumstance (such as Roboute's say so). Frankly I'm amazed that this needs to be a point of discussion. --Cavgunner (talk) 03:42, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
No. I've added a sentence or two that I can defend from sources but the bulk is not my work. You'd have to step through the edit log to find the original writer. However, if the entire basis of your push for "DELETE ALL DIS!" is that it feels wrong, I'm going to push back with the Gav Thorpe and Sandy Mitchell books as counterexamples that it's not that black and white. Do Imperial world welcome Xenos at times? Yes. Absolutely, that is defensible and it happens in both the Ciaphas Cain books and the Eldar Path books. Piroko (talk) 16:29, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
You need to re-read my responses. My contention isn't that it NEVER happens. My contention is that it's not something that would happen frequently, it's not common, it's highly unusual, and it would not happen in a normal state of affairs. For heaven's sake, this is an assertion that you all but state yourself. Since we agree, why the hell are you arguing with me on this? And yes, that section either needs to either be dumped because it's not accurate, or it needs to be heavily altered to remove the insinuation that Eldar can freely visit any Imperial world whenever they want to and nothing is done about it. Because that is simply not the case. --Cavgunner (talk) 16:45, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
You gonna make some edits there then or just talk about making edits?Piroko (talk) 17:07, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Does anyone else care to chime in here? --Cavgunner (talk) 02:38, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

It seems to me fairly well documented that Harelquins visit Imperial worlds. This is in (admittedly older) GW sources and also on sites like Lexicanum and 40K fandom. I think it's not like it's that the Imperium opens its arms to them and sets aside a theatre for them. Considering they could get easily onto a planet and put on a performance be it in a noble gathering or a hive trade hub and then just go again. As long as they are subtle about it and don't outstay their welcome I'd imagine they could put on a show whenever they want. It would not done be done formally with the Imperiums knowledge most (if not all) of the time. The Imperium can't do much about them as in most cases they'd be gone before forces would find out and could be mustered in sufficient force to deal with the problem of really good dancers putting on a free show.--Because (talk) 19:12, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Proposed Edit[edit]

Hello... I would like to propose the following edit to the first four paragraphs of the "Eldar Ambassadors" section, as I think the original text significantly overstates the case for Harlequin visitations:

Harlequins do not necessarily restrict their visits to the Eldar. In the Harlequins' view, they must perform their work for anyone and everyone who may benefit and learn the lessons from The Fall. Thus it is rare, but not unknown, for Harlequin troupes to visit Imperial worlds. However, it must be noted that given the Imperium's strict (and often justified) policy of xenophobia, the circumstances under which such visits occur almost always coincide with the absence of strict Imperial oversight.

Of course, given the inscrutable nature of Eldar language and art, it is highly debatable whether or not a human audience would even be able to grasp the message that a Harlequin performance was attempting to convey. Most accounts of Harlequin performances amount to something like splatterhouse Shakespeare, with chainsword wielding cenobite clowns flinging psychedelic rainbow viscera while the audience trips out on peyote. On the other hand, it is conceivable that Harlequins adjust their performance based on the audience, keeping the performance elaborate in form, but simple in message, thus allowing humans to understand the Great Enemy and what can be done.

In any event, by the time Imperial authorities become fully aware of the presence a Harlequin troupe, the xenos have inevitably departed. Given the isolated nature of many imperial worlds and the Imperial policy of enforced ignorance, most common inhabitants might find the harlequins as just another passing troupe of strange, incredibly skilled artists, unaware for the most part of their xenos nature, and since harlequins only need a webway portal instead of say, a massive starship to get onto a world, no one really discovers they have been in a close encounter of the third kind, at least until some Ordo Xenos operative takes notice. Thus, while in theory Harlequins (as xenos) are not welcome on Imperial worlds, in practice the Imperium can generally do little to stop such visitations.

Another explanation is that while the Ordo Xenos may not be fans, the Ordo Malleus is fully aware that the Eldar know more about Chaos than they do, and their desire to obtain that knowledge is enough to make them pressure everyone else into not doing anything rash as long as the Eldar don't provoke a response.

Judging from their allies matrix, it's fortunate that humans at least sometimes listen to them (so far as humans listen to any Eldar, anyway), since on the Tau worlds they visit they are inevitably met with an endless earful about the fucking Greater Good.

--Cavgunner (talk) 18:45, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Fine compromise, would support. Could even "the Ordo Malleus is fully aware that the Eldar know more about Chaos than they do, and that the Harlequins fight chaos as agents of the Black Library" Piroko (talk) 00:28, 15 May 2020 (UTC)