Talk:How Imperial Life Is Worse Than You Can Imagine

I demand a commissar to review this!

Yes, demanding things of Commissars. That always goes over well. Now, this is one of the best and most interesting articles in the wiki, even for someone like me who isn't a Warhamfag. It's a work of analysis and extrapolation, logically presented, and it focusses on the reality for ordinary people, not the hero units with their sparkly powers. Too many settings forget this kind of thing. Look at Shadowrun, chummer. That setting wouldn't work. Five minutes after universe start the entire world would be a bombed-out wasteland. There's no room for people to just live there, at any quality of life. I would have said the same of WH40k, the big dumb faggy S&M cartoon of the wargaming world, before reading this article. Congratulations to the author(s), they fucking rock. --Furore23 22:47, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Seems like a bit of a dead end. Should we link it to other pages on the site? -FTT (8/24/2011, 11:37am)

Yes, link it to EVERY page on the site. --Furore23 18:31, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, dumbass WH40K apologists

You ruined one of the best articles on this site with your backbiting and 'yes buts'. I know it's a thing for GW to encourage their fans to engage in fascism apologia like they were characters in the setting, but GIVE IT A REST.

Anyway, I'm reverting it back to its original incarnation. You know, the one that was actually awesome. --Golden Knight (talk) 14:01, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Deletion

This page a shit. It's nothing more than whining about "muh oppreshun" and adds absolutely no information that doesn't already exist in the main Imperium of Man article. Yes, the Imperium is not a utopia. No, it's not the worst thing possible, and it isn't even the worst in 40k by a long shot. You don't have to like it, and no one is asking you to. But take your whinefest somewhere else. Perhaps a Tumblr blog, if you have an insatiable urge to tell the general public how angry you are.--The Forgefather (talk)

• Go fuck yourself. This page was fine. If it burns in your grittly little vagina like a bad case of the clap, it's because you are a shithead who can't wrap your brain around the idea of the vanilla human protagonist faction not being perfect. You have no grounds to delete a venerable and lovable article that has as much to do with tumblr-blogging about oppression as the Werewolf page simply because you don't find it funny. Then again, given your record, I can see how a bunch of assholes who run around ruining and destroying everything they can find while making nothing of worth or substance of their own might be appealing and relatable to you. --SpectralTime (talk) 04:07, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
  • As others have already shown, your arguments, such as they are, do nothing to rebuke reasons for this page's deletion. My opinion on the Imperium, and your baseless speculation as to what that might be, are irrelevant to the subject at hand. Your opinion on the Imperium is irrelevant to whether or not it should be kept. I have introduced reasons why this page is redundant at best and rhetoric at worst. Do you have rebuttals to these and any other reasons introduced why this page should be kept, besides it being "venerated and lovable" (Which, if we are being honest, is little more than a euphemism 'I agree personally with the message sent by this page')?--The Forgefather (talk)
    • And yet your reasons for deleting it are steeped in the idea that somehow, saying a fictional setting is a dystopia is bitching-moaning-tumblr-posting about "muh oppression." It's not. And you don't have another leg to stand on. The reason this page needs to exist is that stupid people keep trying to pretend the Imperium isn't a rotten place, which is why it is not redundant with the current Imperium of Man page and cannot be successfully merged with it in its present form. --SpectralTime (talk) 15:28, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
      • That's your argument? People keep disagreeing with you, so this needs to be repeated as many times as possible? That's all you're doing, trying to drown dissent, and calling everyone that contradicts you "stupid" only reinforces this impression. Where did I say the Imperium wasn't dystopic? Go ahead and point it out, I'll wait.--The Forgefather (talk)
        • You've never countered my points on any other article, save to call me names and dismiss them on general principle because you don't agree with them. What makes you arbitrarily able to judge these things unerringly? I like the article, it fills a vital niche that people like you are actively trying to destroy, and it used to have a very funny joke about "Fistus Maximus of the Emperor's Penetrators" before butthurt jerks like you had it removed. Outside of variations on a theme of "It's stupid, it sucks, I hate it, etc." the only legitimate reason you've given why this page must be purged is that it is redundant. And thanks to your own efforts over on the Imperium of Man page, it is not. --SpectralTime (talk) 16:07, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
          • >Me
          • >Calling you names
          • Nice projection there. You have no points other than "this page agrees with me," which warrants no argument. If you cared to read posts in their entirety, you would notice that my primary argument was that this page is nothing more than a whinefest. This is the last time I will bother replying to you if you have nothing substantive to say. If you can make a case for this page without descending into ad homines and dragging in arguments from other pages, I will gladly entertain it.--The Forgefather (talk)
            • At risk of being a middle-schooler about this, you started it. And I don't have to. The burden of proof falls on you to justify deleting it. And you have not, because you cannot. Your only cogent point is that another article contains this information, but it does not. And, indeed, it will not, because you've body-blocked attempts to restore it yourself. You'll need a better way of justifying wiping an article than "This page is just whining that I don't agree with." And considering your sole additive contribution to this wiki is, at present, complaints about the new Star Wars, I see you're not opposed to whines on general principle. If you think talking about the many ways the Imperium of Man sucks that might not be obvious at first glance is "whining," well, then literally any discussion of 40k becomes impossible because the vast majority of the setting sucks by design. "Whining," for the record, is better-exemplified by pages like this or this, and I'm not advocating for their deletion. If you like the Imperium, you know what? That's fine. That doesn't mean you can just sponge away anyone talking shit about this wholly-fictional faction in a wholly-fictional setting. And if you think this somehow reflects a real-world political view that needs quashing, well, that viewpoint speaks for itself. --SpectralTime (talk) 22:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
            • No, it doesn't exist at all. Whatever was I thinking? Everything else you've said has either been addressed previously, or are mischaracterized non sequitur that have no relevance to this topic, and does not warrant a reply.--The Forgefather (talk)
  • Isn't burning it the Imperial thing to do?--97.104.194.213 05:05, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
    • True, but the point of the page is that the Imperial thing to do is not usually the right thing to do. --SpectralTime (talk) 05:11, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
• Gentlemen, let's attack each others' arguments, not each other. Personally, I'd rather this article not exist, as it is redundant, but if it is to be attacked or defended, it should be done the right way. This is on a wiki, not a chan board. --Voivode1 (talk) 05:31, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

• If you think it's so irrelevant, then instead of deleting it (which would render some links inactive) you should fold it completely into the main Imperium of Man article (making it collapsible if you think it's too large) and add a redirect to it there, that way you won't damage any portion of the wiki the section still exists, and is no longer redundant. -- Triacom (talk) 08:55, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
  • While I agree with Forgefather's general sentiment inasmuch as several of the things the article lists are ones I percieve as being so self-evident as to be impossible to overlook, I feel that this would be an ideal compromise. Shall I prepare to copy over the text and redirect the page to Imperium of Man?--Newerfag (talk) 22:54, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
    • ...Sounds good to me. No need to embarrass myself further. I trust your judgement in regards to what is and is not self-evident and redundant. --SpectralTime (talk) 00:15, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
      • I'm editing from my phone now, so it'll have to wait for a while (read: when I can copypaste it without adding roughly a hundred typos). But anything that isn't blatantly obvious I'll put into that "Reasons It Sucks to Love Info the Imperium" section on the IoM article. Newerfag (talk) 04:36, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
  • This page is redundant precisely because this information already exists in the main IoM article. There is nothing to migrate whatsoever.--The Forgefather (talk)

• When I was told that there was no value to the page, and everything was covered in the IoM page, I made the mistake of assuming that everything actually WAS covered in the IoM page and that this one would work itself out. As such I took it into my own hands to move the page over and redirect it properly. I hope this'll stop any unnecessary arguments, and please don't start this shit up again over on the IoM page, it should be very obvious why a short bullet-point list isn't the same as a numbered breakdown of points. -- Triacom (talk) 08:36, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
  • It's still saying a lot of what the "Reasons it sucks to live in the Imperium" already stated, but with about ten times as many words. Among many other things, there's no reason to blabber on about planetary defense when it is already clear that the PDF is a bunch of meatshields, and the last point doesn't even make sense. Overall, it could use a major rewrite even in the form you put it in, which I will do later today. Never forget- don't use a hundred words when ten words will do the same thing. It's just basic writing. --Newerfag (talk) 18:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
  • And done. It's amazing how easy it was to boil this whole page down to a few bullet points on that list. It may seem harsh, but it's for the best. (That said, its third point was completely made up as far as I could tell so I just ended up dropping it. If the Imperium had that kind of surveillance, it would have been mentioned somewhere in the fluff.) If you ask me, anyone who even needed the nbered breakdown to understand why the Imperium is an oppressive dictatorship would be more likely to conclude "TL;DR" instead of actually acknowledging the point. If they want to keep pretending the IoM isn't an awful place to live in, the only thing to do is to tell them.to fuck off and quit wasting your time.--Newerfag (talk) 01:35, 10 January 2016 (UTC)