Talk:Imperium of Man

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>No AI, which means when you are kidnapped to serve in the Navy you will probably spend your time helping a hundred other men reload a huge gun, and you will go deaf and then die.

You don't need an AI for that. So that statement is plain incorrect. Fatum 14:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

If you like. NightRapier 17:57, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Nice job to all who worked on this. Accurately summarizes the setting. ElGrande 08:06, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

When you are kidnapped to serve in the Navy, you DO help a hundred other men reload a very big gun. Says so in the BFG rulebook. 15:21, 10 June 2009 (UTC) this actually sort of happened in the end of Flight Of Eisentein...

Promoting multiculturalism outside of any real context and with no attendant joke and calling a body named the Imperium of Man "sexist" when Man is the damn of race and always has been both in reality and in fiction. Did reddit get in here? What is this? I thought we prided ourselves on being ED but slightly informative about the hobby. 3 Sept. 2014

Well, that was never going to go well. Teach me to edit sleep-deprived. Look, the whole setting revolves around the idea that the Imperium of Man, and life in the Imperium of Man, is not very much fun. For every book that paints a semi-idyllic portrait of Imperial life, there are plenty that don't. Those Grey Knights books, anyone? Furthermore, I'd go so far as to argue that only those worlds that are the least "Imperial" are half-way decent by his own admission. All of these segments were written by the same butthurt Imperialfag that vandalized the Tau article seven ways from Sunday before we finished cleaning it all up, and they're the result, not of productive discourse, but of him getting his panties in a twist at the mere thought that the "human faction" just might not be a super-special-awesome Mary Sue race of morally-superior, morally-perfect beings who are not only better than everyone else at everything but never do anything wrong ever. And a more comically fundamental misunderstanding of the Warhammer 40k setting I cannot imagine. Also, not being able to break this into paragraphs sucks.--SpectralTime (talk) 13:06, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

In that case, I'd suggest editing out the most egregious cases, rather than deleting the entire section, which does have a kernel of truth behind it.Boss Ballkrusha (talk) 13:22, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
  • As mentioned before, just because you may not agree with this section does not excuse you from perma-deleting a large swath of the page, its bad editing nothing more, nothing less. And if you read carefully, that particular section essentially talks about the worlds outside of GW's specific perception on life in the IoM, and as you know, GW always dwells into the shitty parts of the IoM. The fact that life in the Imperium is highly variable in the first place (Civilized worlds to Hive worlds to Prison worlds and so on) kind of subverts the idea that the IoM is one giant consistent North Korea. Out of the million worlds, you would expect to see some variety in the IoM and this is supported by the introduction of the different cultures within the IoM such as the Salamanders, Space Wolves and Tallarn, almost no two worlds within the Imperium would have the same way of life, so yes it is indeed true that the IoM is more 'multicultural' then some races within WH40K. The only thing that each world shares is their beliefs in the Emperor and even then it's variable such as the Attilans who considers the Emperor as nothing more then a second-hand god. To deny otherwise is sheer ignorance, and quite frankly makes the IoM feel like a lifeless two dimensional character, which is not the case. Derpysaurus
    • Kinda rich of you to describe it as "permanent" when it got reverted in under a day. Anyway, point I was trying to make: yes, some SM-controlled worlds are better-off than the average. Yes, some backwater worlds no one cares about aren't directly touched by the Imperium's influence. But the parts of the Imperium that the Imperial gov't does regularly interact with suck. You've got the planetary equivalent of the 'burbs in the first Grey Knights novel, where we see office drones working fourteen-hour shifts against a backdrop of propaganda posters and being shot for their failure when they mess up paperwork. We see from the Rogue Trader RPG that coming from an "Imperial World" (agri-world, feudal world, etc.) literally means having the bare-bones-est education the powers-that-be can give you, because "Blessed is the mind too small for doubt!" I don't understand how the "multicultural" angle (something I never disputed) somehow excuses the ultimate fact that in the Imperium of Man, the absolute cheapest, most expendable resource is human life, and the government treats every last one of its people accordingly. The Imperium may control other worlds with different cultures, but, like the Nazis they ape, there is a monolithic culture they impose on their core holdings, and whatever they directly control gets pretty crap pretty fast. Heck, Hive Worlds are largely outside this monolith, due to their immense size and highly chaotic underbelly. Don't know why I'm bothering. It's an all or nothing sort of issue, and I've made my peace with getting nothing. The world turns on.--SpectralTime (talk) 09:34, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Oh well at least the problem is done and dusted, I think it just depends on perspectives anyway. Derpysaurus

History Section[edit]

I was just about to make a section within the article, but thought that it would be nice to write it here first - If you guys find it okay, please comment.

== History of the Imperium ==
Go to this link: ([1]) and set it ago.
00:00. The God-Emperor of mankind has revealed himself and has ushered a new age for Mankind - The Space Marines and Primarchs are created and the Mechanics brough into the fold. Soon, Terra is united with enough of its colonies that the next part of the plan can be set in motion.
01:00. The Great Crusade is launched. It is a great time to be human, and the armies of the fletchling Imperium conquers the stars. No one can stand against Humanity and their undominatable resolve. No xeno can stand against them, and the few human armies who try are swept away and forced to join the truth of the Imperium.
01:38. The Crusade is at its peak. The Primarchs are gathered over time, but the lure of Chaos awakens within some of them - Their releationsships are strained and friendships are forged. The Emperor ventures back to Terra to learn the secrets of the Webway and tame them for the Imperium to use.
02:15. Horus, the Warmaster of the Imperium is tempted to join a side that promises more... More of everything. As half the armies of the Imperium follows him without questioning, he turns against his former loyal friends - The Horus Heresy is unleashed, and the galaxy will burn in the wake of the civil war.
03:04. The Horus Heresy. Major battles for the control over the galaxy are fought - Istavann III, the Drop Site Massacre... Who is friend or foe? The armies of the arch-traitor reaches Terra in the largest battle the planet has ever seen. Horus and the Emperor meet on the flagship of Horus' fleet, and there, the Emperor is killed... Almost. His last spark of life will not let go of the body, and so, in hope that he might return to the masses, he is put into the Golden Throne, to wither and decay.
03:50: Aftermath. The galaxy is in ruins. The Imperium is struggling to keep itself together. Over the next ten millinia, every action is so desperate and so filled with the will to exist that it helps the empire survive - Through sacrifice, dogma, order and human blood, the last remaining bastion for humanity is kept alive, while the galaxy slowly but surely chips away at its foundation...
05:00: Time of Ending. Present Warhammer 40,000. The galaxy is in turmoil - The final battle for anything and everything has begun. Old advesaries, both empires and men meet on the battlefield and fight the last fight to ever be in a galaxy that has seen nothing but death and destruction. Every man and woman takes up arms to defend what they hold dear or take down those who oppose them, and unlikely alliances bind together forces who once hated each other, while the last remaining loyal friends turn the backs to each other in fear or in spite. It is the last hours of the only bastion of existance on the world, and many a wall will crumble, many a man will fall and many a truth will be revealed... It is a time of wings, or a time of flames.
05:56: This is Warhammer 40,000.

The same joke is on the Elder Scrolls page.-- 20:47, 28 November 2014 (UTC

It is, got the idea from that. Does that put it off? TheWiseDane (talk) 13:17, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Can someone actually answer my bloody question, please? TheWiseDane (talk) 15:35, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Did someone answer? I thought it was funny, but I also think it should cover more stuff, like from the war of necrons vs Eldar (that would explain the AdMech) and be placed on the Warhammer 40k's article instead of here. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 00:53, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind it, but it's been so long since I made that post that I've completely forgotten about it! If anyone wants to do it, you can go ahead. TheWiseDane (talk) 10:07, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

That "Is This Racist Authoritarian Police State Ruled By Religious Fanaticism And Callous Cruelty Really So Bad?" bit gets worse every time I read it, betraying at every turn a stunning ignorance of the basic principles of the setting's design. And it's not even well-written to boot. Petitioning once more to remove it. --SpectralTime (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

The setting can have grimdark without going grimderp, and the paragraph highlights the distinction between the two. And not everyone shares your desire to make out the big, evil IoM as xenophobic and oppressive as humanly possible (and then some).--The Forgefather (talk)
Let us remember that while the galaxy of the 41st Millennium is a place filled with nightmares, the Imperium is a state constructed by humans and largely for humans to inhabit. It will have many seeming contradictions which are a matter of pragmatism in conjunction with human nature. A state needs to function, and to function it will make allowances for some things. Let us also remember that in quite a few of the books, the state of affairs present really doesn't look miserable. Hard and restrictive at times, sure, but not a hellish existence.
In other words, this section does present valid points. --Voivode1 (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
There is, perhaps, an argument to be made that the Imperium of Man is better than total anarchy. To try to argue it is somehow not oppressive because this one time, bro, an alien was totally a dick to me, and, anyway, my cousin tells me it's totally not so bad where he lives is fine is, in the technical sense, anecdotal evidence.
In the Imperium of Man, the absolute cheapest resource there is is human life. A guardsman isn't worth the shitty armor and lasgun he carries. Slaves load shells by hand in battleships not because autoloaders aren't available, but because it's just cheaper for them to use manpower. A thousand people die in blood-sacrifice every day to appease a god who's dying anyway and whose death may or may not actually make things worse, because what's a thousand people beside the rest of the Imperium?
That hypocrisy, that passionate zeal for the well-being of humanity in the abstract coupled with a total indifference to what happens to humans as individuals is central to the setting, and, indeed, to the character of its founder. And we even have useful evidence in-setting that the Imperium isn't a "necessary evil" or whatever, simply because societies like the Interex and the Diasporex did fine before the Imperium exterminated them for the crime of not being human enough before it began slowly imploding.
And that's before we point out that they're a deliberate cartoonish parody of the worst excesses of Western Civilization combined together, marrying the genocidal fixation on their own superiority of Nazi Germany, the unreasoning fanaticism and stagnation of the Medieval Church, and the callous indifference to the "colonials" of colonial Europe. (All as filtered through the lense of pop-culture, mind.) Saying that every human in the Imperium isn't an asshole is fine. It's true even. But the system they serve is broken and wrong. It hasn't really fixed anything for ten thousand years, and it could barely be relied upon to deal with things then. Not for the little guy anyway. --SpectralTime (talk) 03:00, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
If you stopped your moral crusade against the tyranny of marginalization and "colianism" for a moment, you would realize that no one is suggesting that the Imperium is a utopia or anything of the sort. You want to wax lyrical about how terrible and mean humanity and Western culture is? Fine. Just do your self-flaggelating somewhere else.--The Forgefather (talk)
I don't quite understand what you're refuting. None of what we said is mutually exclusive with what you just said.--Voivode1 (talk) 04:33, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
I guess I'm not refuting you so much as that whole section. I don't dislike it because it's apologetics, I don't like it because it's bad apologetics that relies on silly arguments and anecdotal evidence rather than legitimate arguments like "If the Imperium turns into too much of a shitpit, it becomes impossible to care about them," or "Whether or not it was necessary once, it's probably necessary now, and if it's the Imperium's own fault that things have gotten this bad, well, at least they're holding on."
Not, "multiculturalism, blah blah blah." I mean, again, that whole section was written by a guy who vandalized the Tau page over and over again, ranting about how much he hated them for being the "optimistic" faction without being human. Why should we take his word for it? What legitimate points does he make, beyond "My mind is so small and narrow I can't like a thing unless the protagonist faction looks like me?"
Also, I always liked the part in that one penal legion book where they visit a Tau world, get in a barfight with a bunch of aliens, and the kroot point out that of course aliens are going to be dicks to humans: humans are actively attempting to exterminate all of them! --SpectralTime (talk) 05:20, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
If you're so sure your position is legitimate, why are you investing so much time into attacking individual users and making non sequitur implications of racism, rather than discussing the article itself?--The Forgefather (talk)
Beware the machinations of the heretic, brother. He seeks to turn us from the Emperor's light.--The Forgefather (talk)
  • The problem with the governmental system of the IoM is that communication is slow and inefficient, that is a reason why it may seem to be stagnating. As an entity on the moral compass, the IoM is more grey than truly malicious (Unlike say ONI from Halo), no one here is suggesting that the IoM is a Trekkie-style Utopia, what we are suggesting is that the Iom is more like any human government in human history, assholish at times but overall relatively okay to live in. The reason why the IoM looks so oppressive is because of the narrative point of view often situated with the worst of the worst. If you see a pattern here, it is because most of the narration whining on how supposedly 'bad' the IoM is often situated in the middle of wars, the slums of the underhive, a death world or a prison world. No shit it would make the IoM look bad. But it is because of this one-sided bias narrative point of view that made us make this paragraph. As it is established the most common worlds in the IoM are civilized worlds, some of which as noted can rival most 1st world nations in living standards, yet despite being the most common worlds in the IoM it is also the least studied upon. The reasoning? Because it wouldn't fit the 40k criteria of 'war and gloom'. Hell if you really want to analyze the IoM's political government, than they are more of a pragmatic, authoritarian, decentralized federation that is made up of a million worlds each with a different form of their own governments that is in turn watched by several powerful organizations. It is not even a proper 'Empire' in that it doesn't have a single powerful government controlling most of these worlds, so if you really want to skew it in, than the IoM has more in common to the Federation from Star Trek in terms of government than that of the Galactic Empire from Star Wars. Derpysaurus

Imperial Art or How I learned to stop worrying and love the Tubes[edit]

A while ago argument was made to delete the Tubes page and stuff like Recaff that doesn't really belongs to /tg/. Say, in order to preserve the info and have some fun (and images) out of it, why don't we place a subsection in this article called "Imperial Art", "Imperial Trends", Culture or something like that? I myself wanted an article talking about the Imperium's Raging Boner on skulls on everything, and I liked how this website noticed how tubes and cybernetics were attached to everything, even the Recaff-coffee mug, yet couldn't argue how that was /tg/ related and deserved a page on its own. A subsection however, surely that's more plausible? -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 01:03, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm on the fence here, personally. On the one hand, nothing explicitly says you can't do that, but on the other hand it feels to me that it might just end up sounding like a guy with a pet peeve about it trying to give a bad stand-up comedy routine. It's not a good sign when I hear the words "What's up with that?" being added to the end of such a page (or section) when it's all written out. All I can say is that the only way to reliably test its viability is to try and start a thread on /tg/ discussing it. Perhaps if you made a copy of the page (with the proposed subsection) on your user space, I could get a better impression as opposed to spouting out my own opinions.-- Newerfag (talk) 01:20, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Well, it's here. Let's see what comes out of it, if anything. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 04:24, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Derailed after a single post, and already on page 6. I think this speaks for itself.--The Forgefather (talk)
Yeeeah. TBH, maybe I wasn't the best dude for this - I don't really post on /tg/. But still, not many people seem no make a lot of fuss about some skulls and tubes here and there. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 03:25, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Civilized worlds most prevalent in IoM?[edit]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but this statement being one of the few clues to my personal mission necessiates my asking for CITATIONS. Pilgrim of Terra (talk) 12:56, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Pre-Reformation Catholic Church[edit]

Anyone care to explain why the Imperium of Man was like this?

To understand the comparison, and therefore the history of the IoM, you gotta understand both parts of it. The Roman Catholic Church became as bad as it did (indulgences to pay your way to heaven going straight into members of the clergy's pockets, accusations of heresy out of personal vendetta, setting up bastard children in positions of power like bishops of members of royal courts) was because of unchecked power mixed with ignorance. In a situation in which everyone is told you must be pious or god will hate you, and the only way to win his favor was through his church, you start getting issues in which the church holds power over the government. Then, as people are literally born into the church, things start degrading, and people start realizing they can take advantage of the situation. A similar thing happened to the Imperium of Man, except over a much longer period of time. Basically, as worship of the God-Emperor spread, so did the Ecclesiarchy. The mixture of ignorance and unchecked power culminated in the reign of Goge Vandire, which mirrors the history of the Catholic Church. They even share the trappings of a state enforced but separate religion in their stance against free democracies and egalitarian states (where the Catholic Church hated equality, non-believers, and, especially, both, the IoM hates equality, non-believers, and, especially, both), which is a symptom of extreme corruption and unholy amount of power. Basically, things are shit, and shit institutions arise from shit situations. --Kracked Mynd (talk) 05:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)