Talk:Iskandar Khayon

From 1d4chan

3b. While the whole idea of said Deldar NOT!girlfriend itself is pretty Mary Sue out-of-universe, but the in-universe it may not be so implausible. This soul-binding procedure might be specifically only applicable for Eldar souls in their own special Eldar case of getting their soul sucked away by Slaanesh, but not applicable for the Thousand Sons' trouble with Rubrics. And we've already seen Eldar actually learn and be impressed with humans dabbling with Chaos, as Fabius Bile did for the Haemonculi. Once, when he was captured by Dark Eldar, he impressed the Haemonculi so much with new torture tricks and a Rube Goldberg soul-device he built constantly generates delicious pain for the thirsty Eldar soul, that they just let this human walk free out of Commoragh. To be well-versed in new fields of study, one must be rather adventurous and experimental after all, and we all know how Eldar will absolutely never try anything with anything Chaos-related even if the resultant discovery of new tricks you can do with souls can be chaos-free like how Fabius showed them (After all, the entire war between Vect and Malys is really about each suspecting the other of trying to rape a chaos-hole into Commoragh).

If it really worked like that then the Eldar would never have need of spirit stones. -- Triacom (talk) 15:04, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
You do realize you're speaking of great mental facility belonging to the race whom planned to create a God out their souls, by splitting said souls among god knows how many Craftworlds instead of putting them together. After torture-fucking their personal satan into existence FIRST. Khayon is acting as a psuedo spirit stone to start.
Honestly after reading that Khayon telekinetically dragged a strike cruiser, FOR A MONTH, and the Spirit Stones hold Eldar souls to begin with, why you have a problem with this. A psyker can't hold a soul in a body and mend a body at the same time. Dark Eldar souls are stated to be diminished even. It's one soul, Khayon belong to the Thousand Sons. You know, the guys that cast the soul-sealing psyopocalypse knownas the RUBRIC OF AHRIMAN.
A great mental facility? I'm not sure what you mean by that, so I'm going to move on to your main point: that they planned to create Ynnead by splitting their souls amongst Craftworlds. Not only is that completely wrong, but it has nothing to do with what Khayon did. Khayon isn't acting as a spirit stone at all because he isn't housing the soul of his girlfriend. For your second post, your first sentence has nothing to do with anything, and I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you wrote it. For this part: "A psyker can't hold a soul in a body and mend a body at the same time." You seem to be missing that this is exactly what Khayon did and was still doing, and what he did wasn't the Rubric, it far surpassed it without even trying. It also doesn't matter that he's part of the Thousand Sons, because the book makes it seem like every decent Psyker should be able to do this. -- Triacom (talk) 15:52, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Literally the rubric is the same sort of thing Khayon did. Sealed a soul into a body and stopped it from changing. And it's the ELDAR. They are literally trying to craft Ynnead, but by spreading their legos across the floor and hoping they somehow float together.

If you think the Rubric is the same thing then you have no clue what the Rubric is. The Rubric is a whole lot worse than just sealing a soul into a body and preventing it from changing, it destroys the physical form of non-psykers and locks the soul in a servitor state, where they are unthinking automatons lacking all self-awareness. That is not at all what Khayon did. "They are literally trying to craft Ynnead, but by spreading their legos across the floor and hoping they somehow float together." That's entirely wrong. The point of the Craftworlds was not to create Ynnead, and how they created Ynnead had nothing to do with spreading themselves around the galaxy in their Craftworlds. -- Triacom (talk) 16:07, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
You are describing the failed rubric, but it still works. Literally Khayon is using some of the same technique as Ahriman did, on a smaller scale. The rubrics have the opposite problem, the Sorcerer in question would need to psychically rebuild a whole body for every rubric in the Legion. As to the craftworlds, what were they just tossing soulstones in the circuit for the lulz, rather than just making more wraith construct civilian bodies?
I'm describing the successful Rubric. If he was using the same technique then his girlfriend would've lost her body and her mind would be no more than a servitor's. As I said, if doing what he did was as simple as it seems then none of the Eldar would use Spirit Stones. As for the Craftworlds, the point of the Infinity Circuit is that they put their souls there so Slaanesh cannot eat them, it was not to make Wraith constructs or to create Ynnead. If you think it was then you're just plain ignorant. -- Triacom (talk) 18:51, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Ynnead is described by the Craftworlds as their last hope from Slaanesh. The Stones are a band-aid, at best. And you're arguing that Khayon can't use a miniature version of Ahriman's ritual on Dark Eldar, because Ahriman's version didn't work, is faulty. By this logic Mephiston should be a demonic gorillaman, or the Blood Angels should just lock up the Death Company and wait for them to stew in mini-Mephistons. Back to the original point Haemonculi force the soul of Dark Eldar back into dead bodies after they heal them. Exactly fucking nothing should prevent Khayon from doing the same.
Yes he's described as the last hope, what you don't seem to know is that they thought about making him way after they left on their Craftworlds. I'm arguing that Khayon didn't use a mini-version on a Dark Eldar because it had an entirely different effect, and Ahriman's version did work. Mephiston also has nothing to do with this. Khayon also isn't a Haemonculus and what he did is nothing at all like what they're described as doing. -- Triacom (talk) 19:37, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Except this time you are entirely wrong. Lore has Ahriman very explicitly calling the Rubric a failure or malfunction, and shoving soul of a fallen Drukhari back into the revived corpse has been described as exactly what the Haemonculi do to bring fallen Eldar back. Using torture sacrifice but whatever. And Mephiston is in here by analogy, nice spotting that one genius.
Fuck the new 1k Sons has a healing psychic ability that reverses fucking time on the target. Ephrael Stern vomits Slaanesh Daemons at one point. Jesus it's Warhammer, deal with it.
The Rubric did what it was supposed to do with a side effect for everyone who wasn't a psyker. Since Khayon's girlfriend isn't a psyker, she'd have been turned to sand if he used it on her, not to mention the Rubric's not something you can just do on a whim. Also shoving a soul back into a body is definitely not what the Haemonculi are described as doing (there's a lot more to it), and it's also not the soul binding method Khayon used. Mephiston is not an appropriate analogy which is why he's unrelated, and saying "deal with it" only undermines your point, since it makes it clear you don't know what you're talking about. -- Triacom (talk) 20:13, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
So Ahriman keeps going back to try another Rubric in his novel is because it just went so damn well? Really? You read Black Legion but not Ahriman? Jesus, Ahriman's whole motivation in his trilogy is that the rubric failed. I can definitely tell now you're just going off your own head-canon just to continously spout "chaos is lying and bullshit."
About Haemonculus Covens from THIS WIKI: "being the only faction that still have knowledge in genetic resurrection and soul transference."
Ahriman and the Rubric according to this wiki: "However, once he realized all the implications of what he'd done, Ahriman went derp." Further, "Ahriman was initially remorseful and went incognito for a few centuries until his emo phase had ended his former brothers tried to capture him so he could undo the Rubric. With the help of some renegade Marines, Ahriman came out on top, got rid of his rivals, donned the bitchingly horned helmet he wears to this day, and began his "War Against Fate". Since that day, he made a second Rubric spell, which failed in trying to restore the Rubricae to flesh but managed to heal Magnus from the soul-splitting effect he suffered from teleporting everyone to Prospero (despite Magnus kicking him off his lawn earlier; shows how much of a bro' he is) and he also managed to turn one of his Rubric Marines back to normal."
Ahriman didn't like the side effect, but otherwise the actual Rubric did exactly what he wanted it to. Do you not know what the point of the Rubric was? As for Haemonculi, yes they can bring the dead back, but what they do is nothing like what Khayon did, or do you not know what they do either? -- Triacom (talk) 20:30, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
You're argument is Ahriman is remorseful about just as planned? He meant to stop the Flesh Change, not incinerate most of his Legion. Are you fucking serious? If Haemonculus bring back the dead, how is that different from what Khayon did? "Soul goes straight to Slaanesh." What do Kabalite Warriors carry spirit stones they just pop into USB slots on the side of the tanks in the Coven's labs? Hell Khayon didn't even wait a bit to put Nefetari's soul back in, unlike the Covens. He could have simply stopped her dying immediately with no need to drag her soul back. Or "yeah the Covens can do it, but Khayon can't cuz he's a Mary Sue?"
Even Madox has been brought back by Magnus a few times. If both factions are capable of ressurecting the body and dragging the soul back into said body, (with the Thousand Sons even doing it to Rubricae) give me a complete viable reason that Khayon couldn't do the same to the Dark Eldar!
Yes, Ahriman has ritualist's remorse because he didn't realize the full implications of what he was doing until he did it. He meant to stop the flesh change, he stopped it, ergo ritual was successful. Haemonculi bring back the dead in a completely different manner that doesn't work in the anywhere close to what Khayon did. Comparing the two is like saying "well if scientists can make an atom bomb, why can't I also make an atom bomb using the materials in my garage?" If he restored her in the same way as a Haemonculus then that would be one thing, but he didn't. Khayon doesn't have the gear, knowledge or power required to fight back a thirsting Chaos God to save somebody whose soul would literally be devoured by them should they die (something the Thousand Sons don't have to worry about, and resurrecting their mortal followers is nothing new for Chaos). That he somehow pulls her together through sheer bullshit writing made up on the spot and none of the ways anyone else brings back their dead is why he's a Mary Sue. -- Triacom (talk) 21:07, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
Successful ritual which did not work how he intended. Thatcs like saying he defused the bomb by just triggering it instead. 2nd, the thousands don't have to fight off a hungering god, but the Haemonculi do, and have to wait til the body is back in their labs, so Slaanesh definitely has time to suck the soul up before they pry it free. It is costly but is possible. Khayon didn't need the machinery. It's the Eye of Terror. The laws of physics go out the window, even gravity can't be trusted. Any gadgets Khayon could try to use are just as likely to burst into flames or electrocute Nefertari. Now given time (seconds or hours) Slaanesh could definitely nabbed Nefe before Khayon could ressurect her, but it didn't happen. But hey go tell ADB you think he's got shitty writing, go lower GW's prices while you're at it.
No, it's like saying he signed a contract without reading the fine print. He got what he asked for, he just didn't think about what came with it and now he regrets it. Yes the Haemonculi have to fight off a thirsting god, glad we agree on that, what you seem to be ignorant on is how they do it. Khayon does not have or use any of their methods, so using them as an example only shows why what Khayon did shouldn't work. If what he did actually worked, it would be performed on literally every single Eldar in any sort of peril. Also, the defining moments of Mary Sues are finding ways of saying "X should've happened, but it didn't because he's the protagonist" which is why he's solidly a Mary Sue. Also, sign your posts, get your spacing right and read up on the Eldar, Dark Eldar and the Rubric before you embarrass yourself further with ignorant claims like the goal of the Eldar was to create Ynnead with the Infinity Circuits. -- Triacom (talk) 01:07, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

S u C k. A. V e N o m C a N n o n. Love,

(Trognador40k) ;P

Well you got two things right (sort of, hitting the tilde key four times is easier than writing all of that out), now you just need to learn to read up on topics before you make claims about them. -- Triacom (talk) 01:20, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
Considering I had to quote shit from this fucking wiki before you agreed with my most basic points after hours of this shit, how up to date is your lore? Btw the red thirst hulks out Blood Angels into gorilla-like creatures bye furk you...


The only thing you quoted that I agreed with was that Ahriman regretted what he did, and you were acting as if that meant he didn't stop the flesh change. I never disagreed that he had regrets, I was ignoring it until you wouldn't stop bringing it up because how Ahriman feels has nothing to do with what Khayon did. Your quoted part just happened to come right before I decided to address it and you quoting the wiki played no part in my reply. As for anything else you referenced, such as the part where you brought up Haemonculi; I was against that from the start. I was pointing out that what Khayon did and what Haemonculi do are entirely separate and nothing you quoted changed that. The only thing I agreed on is that the Haemonculi have to fight off a thirsting god but you weren't quoting anything when you said that. As for updated info, if I wasn't up to date then I wouldn't be calling you ignorant. -- Triacom (talk) 01:37, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

About that Marneus Calgar comparison...[edit]

Where did Calgar get rid of a Bloodthirster by thinking about it really hard? Also where did he get a Scourge girlfriend and befriend a daemon?

We shouldn't be judging Mary Sues by other Mary Sues. If we're going to try to justify them because some things they do aren't as ridiculous then we're going to get nowhere, because I can point to several examples of Calgar far worse than Khayon, or being several levels more grounded. If something is bullshit ridiculous then it should be called out, if it's consistently bullshit ridiculous then that character is a Mary Sue. -- Triacom (talk) 03:15, 29 June 2020 (UTC)