Talk:Kaldor Draigo

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The part about Draigo beating Mortarion but getting screwed by the less powerful M'Kar is the one part of this fluff that is actually fairly realistic and not pants on head retarded. This represents the unpredictable nature of battle and life in general. How many master swordsmen have fell on the battlefield just because the sun was in their eyes at the wrong moment, how many untrained mooks, armed with a pig sticker, have taken out their betters just because they got lucky and caught them off guard? Sometimes, no matter how good you are, it just depends how the dice fall.

The part of the fluff that truly is pants on head retarded, and deserving of all the rage directed towards it, is the part about Draigo taking a sunday stroll through the warp! And slaughtering all the Daemons of Chaos like he was swatting flies! He is in a place where the very dimension itself it trying to kill him and burn his soul! And is home to not only trillions upon trillions of Daemons but the Chaos Gods themselves! Fuck you Ward. Fuck you with a Powerfist! -- SkyDog 09/11/2011

I noticed the rage about Draigo beating Mortarion, and while get the rage over him beating the shit out of everything in the warp, beating Daemon Primarch is not something along the lines of completely unheard off since we did have a Great Wolf prove a challenge for Magnus the Red, and their was Angroth, who is stronger than the Primarchs, getting beaten by Hector Rex, and nobody complains about that.

Rex defeated An'ggrath, a greater daemon, not a primarch and we still do complain about that.--190.50.222.112 17:10, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

The difference is that the Great Wolf and Hector Rex didn't fight on their enemy's home turf. Daemons are a lot weaker outside of the warp than in.Biggus Berrus 09:12, 28 October 2011 (BST)

Yea, demons are basically burned away by the materium, and unless they can possess somebody or are constantly being juiced by sacrifice they will be cast back into the warp. Inside the warp the exact opposite is true, and most humans have to concentrate really hard just to avoid sprouting an extra spine. By comparison Draigo's exploits put him just shy of (if not on the same level as) the friggin Emperor. Fucking Ward. --64.202.243.128 22:35, 28 October 2011 (BST)
  • It gets worse. Until the fifth edition mortals couldn't even enter the warp. Doing so would outright kill them or utterly obliterate their souls. The only way they could any slight hope of survival would have been with the protection of a powerful daemonic ally. It's why the Imperium never launched a massive crusade against all daemon kind. And then Ward comes along, chooses to ignore that perfectly reasonable rule and violates the fluff with a fish-fork.--2.24.217.217 23:47, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Powerful demonic ally? Curb stomping daemons? Kaldor Draigo makes sense when you insist that he's secretly a daemon prince of Malal.
The guy above me claiming people can't enter the warp obviously never read how Imperial teleporters work, or that it is indeed possible to survive on ship with failed Gellar field if you immediately exit the Warp. Fuck, orks travel the warp on space hulks with no Gellar fields all the time, where you were to complain then?
Yeah, you can survive in the warp for seconds, not hang around there fucking with the chaos gods' shit and going why are you hitting yourself huh huh why are you hitting yourself does this bug you slaanesh im not touching you why does this bug you. You can only do that in Matt Ward is playing with himself land. Tim 11:49, 1 June 2012 (BST)
You wanted to say mere humans survive for seconds? Because you are talking about mini-Primarch, who has every thing wich humanity can offer to oppose influence of warp. And yeah, some of the Primarchs were said to travel in the Eye of Terror, so what is the problem?

I got that a Space Marine shouldn't be able to beat daemons inthe warp, I'm pointing that him beating Mortarion in the Materium isn't the sort of canon rape people on the sight keep saying it is. For that matter, why have people not felt like pointing out that if he could take on Daemon Primarch, why he would nearly get killed by a a common Daemon Prince that Mephiston took on barehanded?

  • Checks his codex* Oh yea, that did happen in the materium. But yes it is weird that Draigo, despite his alleged superhuman abilities, lost to M'kar. I think I'm going to make him an article, since he's a failure of Abaddonian proportions. --Petro 15:25, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Just goes show another there's more fail in Matt Ward's writing that needs to be pointed out.

Rulebook provides an implication that GK might be latest and the most advanced creation of Emperor, surpassing Primarchs (cue comparision with Sanguinius). This, however, doesn't excuse most part of Draigo's fluff, especially having happy campling in the warp.

Well you make it less retarded, they're not being beaten, they're getting right back up just moving somewhere over, everything Draigo is doing is being undone seconds later. The Codex even says the Gods are more or less just fucking with him.

Secondary thought, if this theory is correct, Draigo's survival in the warp would seem a lot more feasible. The answer lies with his terminator armor. Terminator armor contains a small Gellar field to prevent the wearer from growing an extraneous head during teleportation deep strikes, pair that with Aegis wards and Draigo's faith in the emperor, his survival makes a little more sense, as for his actions while in the warp, those were reconned.

The Marbo Theory[edit]

Draigo's fluffstory is such fluffwankery that there can be only one explanation for his apparent existence: Draigo is in fact Sly Marbo. Both seemingly appear from nowhere. Both strike at the heart of the enemy. Both kill mercilessly. Both then disappear without a trace.

Either Draigo is Marbo, or the Great Wardite Heresy has planted an agent at the very heart of the Grey Knights, ready to subvert the Emperor's rule.

It still doesn't really belong in a strike-reply. The whole thing with Kaldor doing something that was supposed to be impressive when a Primarch did it really shows Ward's sloppiness regarding 40k history; it's not like this is some obscure little battle he's forgetting, it's the bloody Horus Heresy, one of the two events (the other being the fall of the Eldar) that define the entire universe. Sanguinius killing the Bloodthirster is supposed to show how powerful he is (AS A PRIMARCH), by extension how powerful Horus is to defeat him, and therefore how powerful the Emperor was to prevail. Making that something a regular Chapter Master can do no probs manages to depreciate all three of the most important figures in the most pivotal moment of the Imperium's history. The Bloodthirster kill is the absolute failure of a writer to know even the most basic facts about what the fucking hell he's supposed to be writing. Tim 09:25, 30 April 2012 (BST)
Except, Einstein, Sanguinius did that untrained and having no idea what his foe is, while Draigo is literally living anti-daemon weapon. Have you stopped to think about it for a second? One guy armed with a rifle killing a tank is hell more impressive than another with the RPG doing the same.
He's a Primarch, he is the most powerful Primarch, and Drago is just a chapter master. Drago should not be better at anything than Sanguinus or even close to equal to him, and only is because he's Ward's horrifyingly stupid self-insert. Tim 11:44, 1 June 2012 (BST)
One of the Horus Heresy books told us how the head of Custodeas defeated Horus in melee combat. I mean chapter master of mini-primarchs was able to beat strongest primarch. And Sanguinius is by no means strongest - even Lorgar, who was never said to be really strong, was able to kill bloodthirster without any problem. So it's totally ok to Draigo to be stronger then Primarchs, especially when it comes to fighting Demons.
He beat Horus in a duel, not real combat, and it's not stated how old and trained Horus was. Also, Lorgar killed a Bloodthirster by the time he was getting his chaos on, and thus far stronger than usual. --Boss Ballkrusha (talk) 09:47, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

here's a question[edit]

Why are people so butthurt at Draigo dicking around in the warp when Lizardmen over at FB has a guy the did the same thing and he did it without all the anti-warp armor and wards Draigo has.

Because no one cares about WHFB Because a) the lizardmen book has a lot of other cool shit and isn't horribly broken. b) Because the character in question did it with a lot more stealth and such, which at least makes more sense. and c) because that character had other traits beyond "killing daemons."
    • You clearly haven't been playing the same army, Grey Knights are not broken. Isn't that what Grey Knights do kill daemons? Isn't that all they're suppose to do? like how oxayotl is "stealth guy with a blowpipe, which he used to stealth kill deamons".--D715 (talk) 20:22, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Slaanesh[edit]

Perhaps its because I haven't seen the primary sources, but I fail to see the paradox about an incorruptible grey knight and the "that no mortal can ever look upon Slannesh and not become enthralled." thing. Grey knights are Space Marines. And Space Marines are, by at least some measures of the word, immortal.--99.160.164.162 05:19, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

It's the "irresistable force meets an immovable object" paradox at work: the Grey Knights are incorruptible, but Slaanesh can corrupt anything that looks upon him/her/it.--Newerfag (talk) 05:22, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
  • So what really happen was Dragio couldn't bring himself to kill Slannesh while Slannesh couldn't claim him and they just walked away?
  • I am still trying to find the passage where it's explicitly written Draigo ever seen Slaanesh in person, some people may point out at the latest codex Chaos Daemons, however he is never mentioned in Slaanesh's section, at best there is a subtle suggestion which feels more like mr. Kelly trying to bring some debate without actively breaking any canon, at worst, well, while everything is considered canon, not everything is truth, lying is mostly Tzeentch's portfolio, but Slaanesh isn't exactly someone trusty neither. Anyway, I guess this will be capitalized by some people as an opportunity to bash Matt Ward --McNash (talk) 06:56, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
    • It's not explicitly written. It's an unnamed Astartes in Silver Armour. Honestly, IMHO, his personality and his visions he see don't really match up with what I'd expect Draigo to see so I'm pretty sure it's not him, but whatever. TiamatRoar (talk) 17:23, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
    • The only Real hit it isn't Draigo is the fact the Astartes in question has a scabbard which is something Grey Knights don't use.

about the Wut section[edit]

I find the part where Draigo turned into oozing pile of flesh amazing. I think it should have a "I have no mouth, but I must scream" reference.--TheSpoilerHeretic (talk) 20:11, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Well it said "This shredded, oozing pile....thing" which is similar to "I am a great soft jelly thing."--50.89.209.198 23:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I like Draigo[edit]

I know this is gonna piss a lot of people off, but I see the need for him. Look at it from a readers point of view only for a sec. The new stuff with him is good. Pandorax has him owning a Daemon Prince after getting sucker punched. But in a realistic way. Sure Ward made him, who cares. Ward is gone. Think about it, even if Kaldor was able to fuck up a Primarch straight up (he can't) he still could do NOTHING about the Gods of Chaos who are implied to be orders of magnitude greater (at least in the Warp). Literally there is NO reason Chaos should not be able steamroll everything if all the Daemon Primarchs got their shit together. You wanna talk numbers? They have 6 Daemon Primarchs and their respective Legions, not Chapters, Legions! Plus Abby and his Black Legion. If nothing else it seems like Kaldor was created to give the Imperium a counterweight to Abaddon. Obviously all the Daemon Primarchs aren't gonna march on Terra until GW is ready to retire the setting (I do not want this to happen either) so it is easy to discount them.

But they are still there and every time I read a 40k novel I remember, "Well shit, who cares if they take down Abby, there are at least 6 dudes who could make him their bitch". People want to call it making a "mary sue", but the fact is I can see from a writers POV realizing that if such an invasion were to occur, there would be NO stopping it without characters like Draigo. Because... the fucking Daemon Primarchs are already overpowered mary sues, without the heroic or traditionally appealing attributes, but will all the power. They just stay on the fucking sidelines so nobody gives a shit. The big E is supposed to be the counter to the Chaos Gods, but we all know it is even less likely that he his gonna be doing anything anytime soon, which means that the good guys (sorry for making it black and white, but humanity good, EVERYTHING else bad) at the very least need Materium superiority since the forces of Chaos have unquestioned Immaterium superiority. Otherwise the inactivity of the Daemon Primarchs starts to look silly. Imagine if Draigo had taken Mortarion straight up, yeah a lot of old people here would get pissy, but it would explain why the other Daemon Primarchs keep their asses in the Warp.

All of this being said, NONE of the shit he pulls should be applicable to the game. I totally get how broken that would be. That's the thing though, in novels things are not balanced. The enemy always has a billion times more soldiers. Sure that could be played straight and the good guys lose every time, but who the fuck wants to read that shit. NO the "good guys" need to be bigger badasses to make up for a big disadvantage in numbers. Finally, to the individual in the wut section who claimed that there is "nothing" awesome about an overpowered character steamrolling enemies...that is your OPINION. Not a statement of fact. Ever seen Equilibrium? Shitty story, but I loved watching the one-sided fights. It can be cathartic. Plus, most of the other stories in the Black Library are fucking depressing due to how hopeless it seems. Sure, I get Grimdark, I even like it. But there is nothing I enjoy more than a character punching out Cthulu (please forgive me for trope referencing). In 40k there is a whole lot of Cthulu level bad and it is nice to see it not just beaten but curbstomped from time to time (again sorry about the troping).--OmnipotentBystander (talk) 04:43, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

  • I can agree to this - I like him too, and honestly never saw why he was such a problem to begin with. A lot of people have taken Kaldor as a sort of "I can beat anything and everything"-character, which I don't see as being the case. No, he is the very avatar of humanity, of Order, and represents the utmost being of Order in the world, as a opposed to Chaos. In many ways, Grey Knights are Order Daemons, in the sense that their presence hurts Chaos, the way Chaos hurts materium, and just like Chaos has a small foothold on the Materium, Order has a small foothold on the Immaterium, in the form of Draigo.
Here, Grimdark comes in. When Chaos takes a hold of the Materium, it does forever, almost unchangable... But when Order, i.e. Kaldor takes a hold in the Immaterium, the Immaterium just heals itself back up. He does nothing to Chaos, and wins nothing, but fights on forever and ever, without halting. Especially his presentation in the End Times make him seem like the sort of guy who knows that already, and has accepted his fate, much in the same way humanity has accepted theirs as a fate of war and destruction ending in their death. That doesn't stop either of them, though - Which is even more sad and dark, really. They can't stop. Kaldor has to fight Chaos, no matter what happens. And nothing will happen, because that's his fate.
On his skills, well yeah, he's good at killing things and surviving. But that's all he got. He isn't a good politicians, he inspires no one with lofty speeches. He doesn't think about the common man, or the rulers of the realm. He just fights. In this way, he represents humanity very well again - Kaldor was chosen as the Grand Master because he knew how to fight, and not because he was a good leader of men: This choice alone made them able to fight the daemons assailing the Materium. It's the exact same with the Imperium - the Imperium cares not for philosphy, infastructure, safety, evolution or politics, it cares only for war and battle, because that's all they can choose. Both choose the way they go about survival, because they were the only choice that would ensure that survival. They choose the warriors to lead them, because they only know war.
On a lesser note, I like that he's not just a creamy white dude with stubbles - He looks old, and aged, which is very unlike other heroic characters like Titus. His personality is kinda nice too, being very direct and warrior-like, which fits his character well... But then again, I've often had a soft spot for douchy characters. TheWiseDane (talk) 09:24, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

End Times cameo, possible way of fixing/undoing age of sigmar[edit]

If Draigo went back in time and reality to prevent the end times and AoS from ever happening, I would forgive Matt Ward for ever creating him, and if warhammer fantasy was brought back as aresult, I would forgive Matt Ward full stop. If only nuhammer was destroyed and the sigmarines never existed, if that piece of fucking crap was gone... Just puttin it out there, Matt Ward wrote better fluff than Age of Sigmar has. Fuck, he wrote better crunch as well. Age of sigmar is an insult. It is unusable. Oh bythe way, dont think I like ward, I just hate him less than age of skubmar, which has become the new definition of skub.

Samurai Jack[edit]

Has the Samurai Jack and Kaldor Draigo link been officially confirmed?--Emerald Claw (talk) 07:29, 8 December 2015 (UTC)