Talk:Khornate Knights

From 1d4chan

do we put the below on the main page? it's pretty good.

No, it reads like a TVTropes page. And it's stupid. Tim 08:06, 28 June 2012 (BST)

Possible explanation?[edit]

It is possible that this episode was intended to stop people thinking about WH40K as of not-so-grimdark universe after reading all those tales about ultimate good in the form of knights in shining armour. You see, it is explictly stated that no GK ever fell to corruption, but it is also stated that their success is based on crazy preparations for everything they can run into. Having a name to counter specific demon? We'll give you one. Need some saint's mummyfied fingers to seal a Warp rift? Check your backpack. And so on. It is also stated that they possess a lot of other forbidden knowledge and techniques. At this point a reader should ask himself: "Okay, fine, none of GK ever suffered corruption, but what is the price of such purity? Wasn't I too naive to think that WH40K actually have unambiguously Good Guys who don't have to eat innocent orphanes to recieve power to fight Evil?". And suddenly you realize that there is no such thing as uncorruptable armor-clad men bringing light of hope into the 'verse, but a bunch of witty psykers who are taught to fight daemons using specific techniqies, which may demand one to commit dark rituals and other henious things to actually work. Remeber Inquisitor Kryptman exterminating dozen Imperial worlds to starve tyranids, killing billions in the process? That's how thigs are done in grimdark setting. Incorruptable Pure Puriness of a knights who can single-handedly kick chaos' ass while NOT having skeletons in their wardrobes just don't fit it (save them for noblebright WH, I think). However, an association of psykers who do outright disgusting things to avert things even more disgusting and evil (from certain PoV anyways), now that's something that fits. It seems sometimes that GW likes this Matt's approach of making things dark and hopeless. I mean, you know that this world is fucked when ultimate defenders of mankind are ones of "anti-hero" type and when even Necron race is ravaged by angst. ...aaaand now we have to ignore things like certain GK special characters kicking chaotic arses left and right without trouble, certain entities having unbelievable layer of plot armour and the like, in order to have consistent fluff. So, in my opinion, Khornate Knights incedent can be considered justified, but only if you can provide a good explanation of why some GK must pay huge price (ranging from their efforts to their humanity) for their power while others seem to get their "resouces" out of nowhere. Tl;dr: "Khornate Knights" episode is fine, it's just inconsistent with sugarbowl bullshit which is the rest of GK fluff, mostly. This inconsistence hurts the fluff, among other things.

That's stupid and you know it. The Cost of the Grey Knights in-corruptibility is that they are essentially brainwashed to the point of not being able to comprehend turning to chaos, They're inscribed down to their bones in purity seals and will kill ANYONE for the slightest risk of their corruption, They aren't good guy shining knights because thinking anything other than "The Emperor is my one true god" while they are around is a death sentence. A much more fitting version of events would be the knights coming in, attempting to destroy the sword and probably succeeding then kill anything that it might have corrupted. The sisters probably still would have died, they spent time near the influence of an artifact that corrupted, but the knights have no reason to bathe in their blood when the whole point of GK is that they are ANTI-chaos, just as crazy in the coconut but following the emperor instead. -- 05:59, 20 July 2012 (BST)

I've blipped back the counterpoint, and added a note about misogyny - it's too serious an accusation to throw at anyone other a single paragraph's worth of fluff. That and the fact that it isn't. AmbullFucker 01:52, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

It can be argued as such, and hopefully my revision shows that. Also it might be useful to go through and explain the women in refrigerators bit, as not everyone has read tvtropes. If there's interest, I can go over all the stuff I learned in a women's studies class with regards to Bloodtide.Voidsman 22:56, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
I liked the sentiments behind what you wrote, but I took the liberty of changing the formatting a bit to make the relevant points more obvious at a glance. Hope you don't mind. If you feel that there is still scope to expand it then that's cool, let's try to keep it concise though huh? Sonicology 00:59, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Good work on the formatting, that works well and the sentence I am going to put in will add one more axis that might influence people's opinion, and to keep it concise on the main page I think I will add a section to this talk page on why women in refrigerators is problematic.Voidsman 18:57, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Accusing anyone of misogyny over the Grey Knights being the teamkilling fucktards they've always been is massively asinine and smacks of looking for problems where none exist. Was GW misandrist when they had the GKs slit a man's throat for being so pious that his blood was needed to consecrate bullets? No, so I don't see why they should be considered misogynist for having the GKs do the SAME DAMN THING to some ultra-pious women. If anything, its a sort of backhanded compliment to the Sisters of Battle, since the GKs only use the most pure blood available to anoint their armors and weapons and it isn't like the Grey Knights wouldn't have just murdered the SoBs after the fact LIKE THEY HAVE ALWAYS DONE TO ALL IMPERIUM FACTIONS WHO SEE THEM AND HAVE DONE SO SINCE THEIR INCEPTION. I recommend deleting this section, since it just reads like some kind of Social Justice Warrior yellow journalism bullshit that belongs on places like Tumblr.
You people are idiots, someone fix this stupid page. The "On Misogyny segment reads longer than the fucking fluff itself. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. You should not be basing a Wiki page of off something some Jackass read in his Women's Studies class.
There's also the fact the main theme of the SoB is martyrdom. Meaning its very likely the Sisters gladly allowed the Kngihts to kill them and be turned to paint as it allowed the Knights to win the battle. This really is just SJW bullshit gotten away because Mat Ward wrote it.--D715 (talk) 08:14, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Deleting "On Misogyny"[edit]

I have chosen to delete the "On Misogyny" segment, as all the arguments contained in it are unprovable and leave the article open to flamewars. It would improve the quality of the article as a whole to remove it completely.--Newerfag (talk) 07:55, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Other Possible Explanation[edit]

The rule of the lore is "everything is canon, not everything is true" meaning that while everything written actually happened, it might not have happened exactly as written. Maybe the GKs came there and found the sisters *were* corrupted (since what can faith really do against nanites, and they go without helmets) and killed them all, and the Echlisiarchy just spun it as them being uncorrupted and the GKs being covered in their blood because "its totally just wards to protect them guys, not the aftermath of a giant slaughter" 2601:98A:200:DA:1C0C:6681:FC00:7DBA

Faith can do a lot against Nanites in 40k, it's why Sisters can take Lascannons to the chest without a scratch on them (and in the earlier editions this was really ridiculous). Also the Grey Knights have used the blood of Ecclesiarchy members against Daemons before in the past, they've even killed and drained priests completely of their blood in the past so that they can use it in their rites. You have to remember that Grey Knights practice their own form of sorcery, some of which does require physical components. -- Triacom (talk) 20:17, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

On teamkilling[edit]

While I have no evidence to support this, but wouldn't the reasonable thing to do be to kill those who become aware of the workings of chaos? Having knowledge of the existence of spiky marines and cultists, and the beasts they employ wouldn't really matter, as for the average guardsman it's just another target to shoot, but witnessing summoning a daemon or someone receiving rewards for a sacrifice would warrant execution. As the former is mostly likely to turn to the Ecclesiarchy and the latter is free to spread the taint of chaos, even unintended, by simply letting people know of the option. Basically, it's the "how to" part to chaos that gets you killed/scrubbed, because if everyone had access to another option besides dying for the Emperor, the Imperium would crumble in a day.

Normally they'll mind-scrub them and delete their memories of the event if they're low in number, or they'll kill them if they're not important enough, however there are other cases like the survivors of the First War for Armageddon where they deported them to specific facilities so that they could work them to death with no chance of the survivors having children. None of those are particularly pleasant, and I remember reading that Inquisitorial Stormtroopers started having issues after enough mind-wipes. -- Triacom (talk) 23:27, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

Is the event THAT implausible?[edit]

Reading about it now, i don't have that much problems with the event.
Like, blank flesh is used in anti-chaos rockets, the blood of martyrs/saints is routinely described as having actual powers against Chaos, and the grey Knights' very armours are made by using "the blood of an innocent" or whatever.
The grey Knights also have no problem going to war with the Space Wolves if the Inquisiton ask them to (cf, the months of shame) and routinely kill guardsmen who saw them act.
In those circumstances, is using the blood of holy warriors for extra wardings THAT implausible? "but that helps Khorne!" I dunno, swinging a sword to decapitate a daemon seems to hurt them just fine and Khorne is the god of violence.

If the Sisters can resist corruption thanks to their faith, then there is no reason the Grey Knights would need to kill them since their own faith should not be lacking. That's what makes it implausible; if this was the Inquisition with some Space Marine chapter, there'd be no issue. -- Triacom (talk) 08:00, 9 March 2022 (UTC)