Talk:List of Mary Sues

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But that's not a Mary Sue[edit]

This article is pure garbage. I don't like this character, therefore they are a mary sue.

Soooo, you're saying this list is your Mary Sue? How very meta.

Seriously; the definition of a Mary Sue is in the parent article.

Aaaand is routinely ignored in this article in favour of 'that character I don't like'. I mean, seriously, you've got characters from fucking preschool shows on here.
It is true though. Some characters listed here are just "I don't like this. They must be a Mary Sue" entries. Tactical Mehren (talk) 17:07, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

As long as we could provide a clear reason for the sues.--TheSpoilerHeretic (talk) 17:46, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Maybe we could add something in the intro, a warning that Mary Sues listed without an explanation will get erased?
Good idea. Not all of the characters are that bad. Alternatively their character analysis should be further expanded.
  • Its worth noting that some of these characters had help from other characters. Such as MC, he had the whole entire UNSC helping out including the Elites in halo 2 and 3. Not to mention some characters are justified in being OP.

Mary Sue subtypes[edit]

The list is getting fukkin unweildy; it's why we moved it to its own page. People feeling the need to vent about each entry is making the list huger. How about dividing the list into "author self-inserts" and "unreasonably awesome at everything" types? Is there a succinct name for the second type, like "the Wesley Crushers" or "the Ultra[marine]s" ? "mini-Emperors" ? Are there more sub-types for dividing the list? --NotBrandX (talk) 14:26, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Wesleys are the types that the author personally favors, but aren't actual self-inserts. There's a shitload of different classifications for Mary Sues out there, and I don't think it would be possible to list every conceivable variation. This was part of the reason I doubted that this page was a good idea- with the correct arguments, any character at all can be interpreted as a Mary Sue. This very talk page notes that most of the listed characters have no rationale for their inclusion beyond "I don't like this character". --Newerfag (talk) 20:20, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
In that case, I suggest we simply delete the page. If people need to vent about characters they don't like, they can go somewhere else. -- SFH (talk) 21:10, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
  • To keep it organized, I think we should just list the different type of Mary Sues, and used those Mary Sues that we have written down already as examples of the types. Derpysaurus
    • That would be better off on the main "Mary Sue" page. This list is little more than people bitching about characters they hate and has no place on this wiki. --Newerfag (talk) 02:21, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
  • here is just an idea, what if the list was organized by game universe? It would then be possible to fight about the Mary Sues of each universe, making the debate smaller. Then it could be arguable that for example Warhammer 40k would (just an example) cause the least debate (Yes because Caldor Draigo and Papa smurf are Mary Sues and if you disagree you must be wrong), and then move on.

Why not re-write the article as an attempt of parodying things, or to generate incandescent rage? I Mean, it's already accomplished the latter.


OK, now that's better. Ben (talk) 10:07, 18 December 2014 (UTC)


Smurfs[edit]

Smurfs (the race not the Space Marines) are from a children's show that's meant to entertain little kids, pretty sure every protagonist in a kids show is a Mary Sue. I think they should be omitted from the list on those grounds. Tyranid Memestealer (talk) 20:14, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't matter they still are if you want to add your own then go ahead. Dude (talk) 16:04, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Requires a rewrite, and a few reasons WHY the person is a Mary Sue[edit]

The list could stay but it is in a desperate need of a rewrite. And either those who are Mary Sues either 1.) Pretty much by the entire community that it is no doubt a Mary Sue. But to the point where everyone can agree and you don't actually have to ask. Or 2.) whre you go on this page, put down the character that you want on the page, reasons for it, and for a certain number of people to agree on it. So those are my suggestions.

Just look at it. Even if everyone could agree that a given character is a Mary Sue, the list is still so bloated that keeping both a standardized definition and a way to verify if a given character is worth putting on the list is a waste of time. The best thing that could be done now is to just delete the page and prevent it from being re-created. --Newerfag (talk) 20:21, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Momonga/Ainz Ool Gown[edit]

I'm considering exterminatusing the Overlord entry with extreme prejudice for being too damn confusing. Anybody care to try to talk me out of it? Or at least try to edit into some kind of shape that resembles something readable? Saarlacfunkel (talk) 03:10, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

The entire article is a clusterfuck of unreadable skub, I honestly don't think anyone would be too butthurt if you just deleted it tbh. --Kracked Mynd (talk) 03:41, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

World of Warsues[edit]

Just to be clear: I don't give a shit about WoW. I've never given a shit about WoW. I only care that this list is properly illustrative of various characters who embody the concept of "Mary Sue".

So, I'll ask: What is the problem with Slyvas Windrunner and Thrall sections? Saarlacfunkel (talk) 11:03, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Admiral Apathy likes them. Simple as that.--Namefag (talk) 23:10, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Thrall section can stay unaltered, Sylvanas needs trimming to have less whining at the very least. Admiral Apathy (talk) 23:12, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Rey confirmed as a Mary Sue[edit]

After having too much time on my hands on a day off work, I watched one of the many youtube videos discussing Disney Star Wars and its protagonist/would-be flagship character, Rey. I've also heard many discussions form both sides about whether or not Rey is a Mary Sue. Wanting to put the matter to rest, I took the online 'Universal Mary Sue Limitus Test' using Rey based on her actions across the trilogy and from expanded works that I know of. Rey scored 53, meaning "Your character is almost certainly a Mary Sue, and a bad one at that". The worst scores, that mean a character is most likely a Mary Sue, are 50+.

Elaborated on below are the points from that test that Rey scored (copy and pasted from the site and in bold). Since I have not played any role in creating or writing for Star Wars, I cross referenced with the films, interviews and articles from the filmmakers. So there is a way to test if a character is a Mary Sue, and Rey fits the critieria; in conclusion, I say Rey is a Mary Sue.


SPOILERS AHEAD

  • Do you think of your character as a role model? Yes. Rey is a key figure in the Resistance and is hyped like crazy by Disney (even without getting into the identity politics involved ie; capitalizing on Nike's "The Force is female" slogan).
  • Unusually accomplished at something for their age? Yes. Rey is an unusually accomplished with technology, making a successful modification to the Millenium Falcon that surprises even Han Solo.
    • Something useful or desirable? Yes; this skill is useful in general and especially given the damage the Falcon takes throughout the story.
  • Learn new skills unusually fast? Rey's master of Force techniques is unusually fast (with the explanations added later by the writers - such as reading it from Kylo's mind and the idea of the Force cheat-coding Rey to super mode - coming off as asspulls).
    • Learns skills that take years to master in months or less?: Yes, as stated above.
  • Special ability that can read anyone’s thoughts or memories instantly and with ease with few to no chances of backfiring? Yes. While it is a trick potentially available to any Force-user, it never backfires when Rey uses it.
  • Powers so awesome every major faction wants the character on their side? Yes. The Rebels, the First Order and Palpatine all want her for that reason (Palpatine has other reasons too, but still).
  • Apart from her main language, how many other languages does she speak? Two. Rey speaks droid (which is understandable with her salvage experience) and wookie (which doesn't make sense as no wookies are seen of Jakku)
  • Character is liked by nearly everyone they meet? Mostly. Everyone she meets in the course of the movie takes a liking to her. Any character who doesn't like her is portrayed negatively and/or is a villain (except Kylo, who also likes her).
    • These friends all have dramatic or glamorous lives? Yes. They're all Jedi, military personnel, politicians, pilots...
    • Care about character as much as or more than characters they’ve known longer Somewhat. In the first movie after Han dies, Leia hugs Rey rather than Chewbacca.
  • Has your character ever been...?
    • Abandoned by family: Rey's parents left her on Jakku and disappeared.
    • Was this caused by a major villain: They left Rey there to hide her from grandapapa Palpatine, and his agents caught up with them and killed them shortly after they left Jakku.
    • Raised by a member of another species: The closest thing Rey had to a parental figure was the asshole alien Unkar Plutt, who treated her like a slave.
    • Physically abused: Plutt was often violent with her, and the novelization implies he may have had a perverse sexual lust for her too.
  • Villain has personal fixation with character? Yes. Kylo Ren, especially in the next two films to the point he considers them soulmates. Palpatine is also fixated on her.
    • Because of their family and something they have rather than their words or actions? Yes. One of Kylo's reasons is how strong she is in the Force and for Palpatine it's that and she's his granddaughter.
  • Do any of these happen despite the fact that your character has already done massive damage to the villain, the villain's troops, and/or the villain's property, or has done anything to annoy the villain in general? Yes. Rey had killed numerous Stormtroopers, beat Kylo himself in a lightsaber duel leaving him with significant injuries and played a role in destroying his faction's superweapon.
  • Is your character resurrected/revived/brought back? Yes. After beating Palpatine, Rey dies but is resurrected by Kylo giving his life essence to save her via the Force (though that doesn't stop him from surviving long enough to share a kiss with Rey).
  • Plays pivotal role in saving a group they weren’t part of in the story? Yes. Rey saves the Resistance, kills Palpatine once and for all along with the spirits of many other Sith when she started the story as a comparatively neutral scavenger on a backwater planet.
  • Creators feel insulted, attacked or defensive when the character is criticized? Yes. Just read or watch all the articles and interviews with vitriol and name-calling - "trolls" and "Russian bots" this, "man-babies" and "misogynists" that - from Rian Johnson and his ilk.
  • Does the character join a major faction? Yes. Rey joins the Rebel Alliance.
    • Does the character become part of the major characters cliques? Yes.
  • Are they a close relative of a canon character? Yes. Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter.
  • Are they adopted by a canon character? In a way. Rey takes on the Skywalker name while the Force ghosts of Luke and Leia look on without expressing or showing any disapproval.
  • Does your character have a similar backstory to a canon character? Yes. Rey's backstory is like Luke’s; Rey grew up on a desert planet separated from her parents. Then found a droid with vital information and had trouble at the market. Said information and droid causes the villains to attack her home and she is forced to flee - she even flees on the Millennium Falcon and has the same low opinion of it that Luke does. Like Luke, Rey flees with a man on the run – Han was on the run from Jabba while Finn was on the run form the First Order. Rey even ends her first movie playing a role in the destruction of a planet-destroying super weapon and skirts close to the Dark Side during a lightsaber duel with a villain in the third movie (on the same Death Star, no less).
  • (de-suifier) If abused/abandoned, does your character ever come to terms with what their parents did? Yes.

In closing, Rey is more of a Mary Sue than Roger Moore's James Bond or Warcraft's Thrall in Cataclysm. I'm not saying it's wrong to like her, I am pointing out that I think this puts the arguments to rest, or at least brings them closer to a resolution.