Talk:Malal Daemonkin

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making rules for using this in 8th is cool and all, but we really shouldn't just delete the rules for 7th, some of us still us them

Go to the history section of the page. You can pull out the old rules and re-add them if you wish.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:01, 30 January 2018 (UTC)


Someone seems to have switched the Hatred (everyone) and Preferred Enemy (Chaos) on the Lesser Daemon's of Malal to Hatred (Chaos) and Preferred Enemy (everyone). First of all, I would like to make it clear that I'm not actually opposed to any such changes, but as this is not a private project, it would be much better if we were to at least state our reasoning before modifying anything. The two special rules have been returned to their previous state for now, because that is what was approved by the group consensus before hand; if anyone has a good explanation as to why the two effects should be switched, then by all means go ahead. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 16:39, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

  • I switched it based on theme. All the Daemon of ______ special rules grant Hatred to it's opposite. In the case of Malal that would logically mean that a Daemon of Malal has the Hatred (Chaos) special rule. Preferred Enemy (Everything!) is a good special rule for Daemons of Malal because they have the same goal (the destruction of everything) as Necron Destroyers who get the Preferred Enemy (Everything!) special rule. --ilniaj (talk) 16:20, 4 May 2014 (MDT)
  • Ah, I see. Good thinking. I'll go ahead and fix the lesser and greater daemon rules to fit that posthaste. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 15:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
  • In the Chaos Daemons codex, every type of Daemon has a universally useful ability, Hatred towards its opposite and a ability that's only useful for limited units (such as Chariots of Khorne having strong Hammer of Wrath attacks, or Daemons of Tzeentch gaining a bonus to cast spells). I think that the Daemon of Malal limited ability should be that it gains access to the Daemonology (Sanctic) discipline which is something that no other Daemon can do but the Daemonology (Malefic) discipline can only be used to summon other Daemons of Malal. Thoughts? ilniaj (talk) 15:05, 5 September 2014 (MDT)

I guess I might as well post this here. The following was suggested as the stats for Beast of Malal based on the average of Daemonic Beasts:

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Beast of Malal 3 0 4 4 2 4 3 7 -

Unit type beast, maximum 9 in a unit.

They still need their obligatory gimmick. Being more deadly/having more attacks, and being some sort of exploding kamikaze unit have both been suggested on that front. Feel free to brainstorm and mess around with this as you will.

71.238.214.46 19:16, 7 May 2014 (UTC) One of the ideas that was being thrown around in our group regarding Malal demons is that they could be a bit like daemonic vampires-of-sorts, feeding on the very essence of other daemons until they cease to exist, merely empowering the malal daemon henceforth; they start out with average stats, but can gain a slight buff for each daemon they slay. [Up to a limit, of course.]

In one fanfic I read a Beast of Malal was described as being large enough to carry a whole marine in it's mouth before Cypher shot the Beast to rescue the marine. Maybe the Beast of Malal should be a monstrous creature heavy support choice? I don't like the idea of it becoming stronger in game by killing Daemons, that would limit it's effectiveness against non-daemon armies. ilniaj

I prefer the idea of Malal's own standard Daemons being normal-sized, with a larger-sized variety with beefier stats (Vampire Counts, which more or less have two levels of Ghouls and Vargs each are a good example). At any rate, there's a few models in the same army in Warhammer Fantasy that work as a good base. On one hand, you have the High Elves Frostheart/Flamespyre Phoenix and on the other you have the Black Coach from Vampire Counts. The former grows or wanes in power based on the Winds of Magic that turn, and the latter gains abilities with the strength of the Winds as the game goes on. For those who don't know, each turn you roll for how much magic is available to pool to your various spellcasters hence the "strength" of the Winds. With the new Psychic phase in 7e, you can easily take advantage of a similar system. You can also say that for each psychic option killed, you (depending on if you take the former or latter road) decrease the chance of weakening or increase the rate abilities and stat gains are attained. Just saying. Worth an idea. At any rate, his Fantasy champion Kaleb Daark should have stats in both 40k and Fantasy as a named character option. Possibly as a Daemon Prince, but for shits and giggles just say Malal is wrenching him from one setting to the other as needed. --Thannak (talk) 01:52, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Null Knight[edit]

A recent Malal thread made these Null Knights but they had some problems with them. The problems are that they had 2 attacks base for some reason, lacked options and that their gimmick is only useful against Chaos while all the other units dedicated to a specific god has a gimmick that can be used against any army. The first 2 were easy to fix but the last is more difficult.--Ilniaj (talk) 05:45, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Also would it possible for any Null Knight to replace their Bolt Pistol with a Hand Flamer for free, or up to 2 models replace their Bolt Pistol with a Plasma Pistol for 15 points The Greater Meh (talk) 01:20, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

90 Points

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Null Knight 4 4 4 4 1 4 1 8 3+
Null Champion 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 3+

UNIT TYPE: Infantry (Null Champion is a character)

UNIT COMPOSITION: 4 Null Knights, 1 Null Champion

WARGEAR: Power Armour, Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

SPECIAL RULES: Champions of Chaos (Champion only), Mark of Malal, Fearless

OPTIONS:

  • May include 15 additional Null Knights - 18 pts/model
  • Any Null Knight may:
    • replace his Boltgun with a:
      • CCW - free
      • Grenade Launcher - 3 pts/model
    • take a CCW - 1 pt/model
  • One Null Knight per 10 models may replace his Boltgun with a:
    • Heavy Flamer (10pts)
    • Missile Launcher (with Frag and Krak missiles) (15pts)
      • Any Null Knight with a Missile Launcher may take Flakk Missiles (10pts)
    • Lascannon (20pts)
  • The Null Champion may take items from the Melee Weapons and/or Ranged Weapons section of the wargear list.
  • The Null Champion may take a Gift of Mutation - 10 pts
  • The Null Champion may take Melta Bombs - 5 pts
  • One model in the unit may take a Icon of Anarchy - 25 pts
  • The unit may take the Veterans of the Long War special rule - 1 pt/model
  • The unit may take a Chaos Rhino as a Dedicated Transport.

In the most recent Malal thread, three more ideas were suggested:

  1. Give them Relic Blades and the Fear special rule.
  2. Make them similar to Noise Marines in that all of them can take a Grenade Launcher, 1 out of 10 of them can take a Missile Launcher and the Null Champion can take a Heavy Flamer.
  3. Give them Preferred Enemy and a buff against chaos types depending on who their fighting:
  • Khorne daemon or Mark of Khorne unit: Count as having Defensive Grenades and inflict Blind.
  • Nurgle daemon or Mark of Nurgle: Always wound on a 3+.
  • Tzeenntch demon or Mark of Tzeentch: Gain Adamantium Will and a Psychic Hood.
  • Slaanesh demon or Mark of Slaanesh: Gain a 4+ invul save.

Daemon Lord[edit]

Here's my work-in-progress statline for the Daemon Lord. We need a name and I'm wondering if he is worth the expensive 1111 points.--Ilniaj (talk) 19:19, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Daemon Lord - Zep'xayxya'xpez (Lord of War) The Title-less, Lord of Paradoxes, Master of Opposites, First of the Guardians

1111 points

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Zep'xayxya'xpez 9 8 8 8 10 9 6 10 -

UNIT TYPE: Gargantuan Creature

WARGEAR: Daemon Star of Malal, Icon of Chaos

DAEMON STAR OF MALAL: Malal doesn't try to create Daemon Worlds but instead corrupts stars into Daemon Stars, an endeavor that's useless to the rest of the gods but serves his purposes well. These stars are known to mortals as Black Holes. Zep'xayxya'xpez holds one one such star in the palm of his hand. In the shooting phase, the Daemon Star is a used as a shooting attack with the following profile: R36" SD AP1 Apocalyptic Blast. In the close combat phase, it grants all of his CC attacks the Destroyer special rule.

DAEMONIC REWARDS: Winds of Chaos, Warp Tether, Riftbringer

SPECIAL RULES: Daemon of Malal, Daemonic Instability, Daemon Lord, Deep Strike, Aura of Parasitism, All Consuming Devourer

ALL CONSUMING DEVOURER: Zep'xayxya'xpez regains wounds from Aura of Parasitism on a 2+ instead of a 4+.

Something Palendromic would work (reads same forwards as it does backwards, EG: racecar, or BoB), alternatively, and this is just my way of thinking, but the names of historic Hunger & Wrath demons look like a way to go, somthing like "Mnemoth-Naru" or "Levai-Yedak", although those names don't have nearly enough unnecessary X's & Y's

Exalted Guardian of Contradictions

675 points

Name M WS BS S T W I A Ld Troop Type
Exalted Guardian of Contradictions 9 9 5 7 7 7 8 8 9 Monster, Character

MAGIC: An Exalted Guardian of Contradictions is a Level 4 Wizard who uses the Daemon Lore of Malal or the Lore of Fire.

SPECIAL RULES: 5+ Ward Save, Large Target, Terror, Unbreakable, Unstable, Hatred

Aura of Parasitism: All enemy models within 12" of this model suffer a -1 penalty to their toughness and leadership whilst within range.

Daemonic Attacks: Being a corporal manifestation of Chaos, all of the Exalted Guardian of Contradictions Attacks are magical.

And there's the Exalted Guardian of Contradictions for Warhammer Fantasy. Unfortunately unfinished due to being unable to come up with a magic weapon and one more special rule at the moment. Maybe the 3rd special rule could be a ranged attack?--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 16:44, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

The number twix 10 and 12, it is half 22[edit]

Ask yourselves, where does the number 8 appear in the Blood God's Codex? The answer: FUCKING EVERYWHERE! I demand that the 11 appears more often.

It doesn't appear in the points costs since that makes balancing a pain in the ass.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 20:00, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Hey, what If we had some model that for a turn could increase one of its stats (attacks, Initiative, ws or bs) to eleven. And we could call the special rule that let it do so "Turn it up to eleven". -Un'tan

  • I want you to stop and think for a moment on just how insanely broken that would be, plus that naming theme fits far better with the Orks The Greater Meh (talk) 16:49, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
  • To be honest I suggested that more as a joke than actually being serious. Just poking fun With some references. Can't quite see how it would be that overpowered though, a single model getting a once per game ability to either hit first, hit more, hit better or shoot better. But again, more a joke than anything else.

Honestly, it's more to the point that Malal the god of Self-Destruction, Anarchy, & Hypocrisy wouldn't have his holy number featured anywhere in his 'Dex, makes more sense that way. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Psychic Powers Storage Area[edit]

Just using this section for storage in case a Daemonkin of the other gods that gets released tells us how a combined CSM/CD codex will work with psychic powers.

  • Schismatic Lance: Warp Charge 2. The Psyker fires a blast of darklight from the palm of his hand. Schismatic Lance is a Beam power with the following profile: R12" SD AP1 Assault 1. If, when using the power, the psyker fails his psychic test he automatically suffers Perils of the Warp.

Champions of Anarchy: The Doomed Ones[edit]

Quick question, would it be worth bringing in a Unique HQ Character for Malal in the Form of a "Doomed One", one of the 11 Champions who are to be sacrificed in order to bring Malal himself into the Materium so that he may lead his Sons in the destruction of all forces, Chaos or Order alike (Yadda Yadda, Dramatic Prose, Blah, Blah).

Possible Names include The 11th Knight, Malice's Blade, Scelus's Son, Kathal, Chapter Master of the Sons of Malice, Ba'kel Draak (an anagram of Kaleb Daark and the original Sons of Malice Chapter Master) and so on, and so on.

Example Stat-line

HQ: The 11th Knight - 220 points

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
The 11th Knight 6 5 4 4 4 5 4 10 2+/4++


Unit Composition: The 11th Knight
Unit Type: Infantry (Unique Character)
Wargear:
  • Terminator Armour
  • Sigil of Corruption
  • Melta Bombs
Chaos Artefacts:
  • War Without End: War Without End is the personal weapon of the 11th Knight which he wielded during the "Challenge of the Labyrinth". He first attained it when looting a Purifier from a fight with the Grey Knights, Sanctic enchantments serving in place of special fuel. War Without End has the following profile Template, S7, AP4, Assault 1, Soulblaze.
  • The 11th Talon: The 11th Talon is the 11th Knights reward for clearing the "Challenge of the Labyrinth" and the proof that has cleared it, taken from the Shrine of Malal found at the heart of the Space Hulk "Labyrinth", this Axe pulses with power and will be used to perform the final sacrifice needed to bring Malal to the Material world. The 11th Talon is a Power Axe. In addition, the 11th talon ignores all invulnerable saves and will never need a To Wound roll worse than 4+.
Warlord Trait: Exalted Champion
Special Rules: Champions of Chaos, Fearless, Independent Character, Veterans of the Long War, Mark of Malal
  • Lord of Malice: In a primary detachment that includes The 11th Knight, Null Knights are troop choices instead of Elites.
Options: The 11th Knight may replace War Without End with a Reaper Autocannon (10pts)
  • Suggested change: "War without end" should be a heavy flamer with +2 strength. The reason for this? It is ap 4, so take the strength and ap and... 6+4=10, 7+4=11. Seconded, we don't have enough 11's in this 'Dex

All right, we're almost done. All we have to do is decide if the Daemon Lord is balanced, a name for the 11th knight, give 6 spells to the Discipline of Anarchy, create a set of 6 Artefacts of Malal and a name and description for the 5th warlord trait and we've finished all the mandatory parts (by mandatory I mean the stuff the all of the Chaos Gods have). The optional parts would be an Malal aligned Chariot and a unique Guardian of Contradictions.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 22:41, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

I've decided to add a Grenade Launcher to the 11th Knight since Garran Branatar of the Deathwatch carries three weapons (a Heavy Flamer, Meltagun and Power Fist). I'm also thinking of removing the psychic mastery levels, upping his ballistic skill to 6 and giving him a Sigil of Corruption, making him a ranged combat special character instead of a Malal themed Typhus.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 08:09, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

I've done the change. Last thing that I think should be done is that the 11th Knight has three primary weapons. He can either wield War Without End, a Reaper Autocannon or a special Missile Launcher that I haven't come up with a name for. The special missile launcher would have +1 strength towards its Frag Missiles.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 02:04, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

  • After thinking about it some more, I realized that a Chaos missile launcher might not even be possible to re-load while wearing bulky Terminator Armor. Just stick with the already established weapons that a Chaos Terminator can wield.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 05:58, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
So a customised Plasma Pistol for his third weapon? The Greater Meh (talk) 09:31, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

No. Stick with weapons that Chaos Terminators can use. Terminators in general can't use plasma pistols.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 14:56, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Modified Combi-Bolter then, looking at +15 points for this, needs double checking The Greater Meh (talk) 23:40, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
Shadowbolt || 24" || S:4 || AP5 || Rapid-Fire, Twin-linked, Blind, Light's Bane
  • Light's Bane: This weapon is a representation of Malal's will as the Diety of Contradictions, each muzzle flash a pulse of darkness, and cracking retort a peal of silence that cuts through the loudest cacophony. This weapon grants it's wielder the Shrouded USR, and immunity to Blind

Added Soulblaze to "War Without End" 'cause it's a looted GK Incinerator, and added the option to take a Knightmare mount for both added survivability/mobility, although at this point he may be one of the most expensive non-Primarch models around. The Greater Meh (talk) 23:40, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Kaleb Daark (Lord) - 375 points

Name M WS BS S T W I A Ld Troop Type
Kaleb Daark 4 8 3 5 5 3 7 5 9 Infantry (Special Character)


Equipment: Shield
Magic Items:
  • Dreadaxe: Dreadaxe is a living axe, bearing part of the soul of a Guardian of Contradictions. As the weapon strikes its jaws close, biting deep into the soul-stuff of his victim. As the soul of the victim is sucked out the body shrivels away to almost nothing. If Kaleb Daark inflicts an unsaved wound, Dreadaxe will attempt to drain the victims soul. The victim must take a Leadership test. If the test is failed then the victim is automatically killed (no saves allowed). In addition, the victims soul feed Malal, Dreadaxe and Kaleb. The leadership of the victim is then divided by three with any remainder ignored. One third goes to Malal and is ignored for the purposes of the game, one third goes to Dreadaxe, and the last third goes to Kaleb. The points that go into Dreadaxe can be used in the next round of combat only as a 'to wound' bonus. All points are used at once and are not carried over. The points that go to Kaleb are retained in a pool. A maximum of 1 point may be used in any turn to modify any dice rolled by Kaleb by 1.
  • Leech Armor: Kaleb Daark is a pale man with white hair, which is the only visibly apparent affect of the strain from his relationship with Malal. Most of the strain from that relationship comes from the Leech Armor that he wears which drains him in order to toughen itself. Chaos Armor. The Leech Armor grants a 4+ Ward Save and the Magic Resistance (1) special rule. For each wound that Kaleb suffers, his Ward Save suffers a -1 penalty (so if he has two wound remaining he has a 5+ Ward Save and if he has one wound remaining he has a 6+ Ward Save). If Kaleb regains any lost wound for any reason, he loses the penalty to his Ward Save.
Special Rules: Eye of the Gods, Mark of Malal
Options: May ride a Daemonic Mount: 35 points
  • The Daemonic Mount may be upgraded to have Barding: 15 points

Here's an 8th edition version of Kaleb Daark. He looks quite finished to me but I'll leave this here for now in case anyone wants to say anything else.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 21:15, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Null Champions A.K.A The Four "Horsemen" of Malal[edit]

An idea I had in a bout of insomnia was for a set of "named" squad leaders for the Null Knights, each acting as a sort of mini HQ for their own squad, each one would be specialised against a different god, I should have the full notes I made in a more legible form soon, but for now I have the Names.

First major edit; stat blocks and rules, lots of copy & paste going on for the formatting, so they're not quite ready, but it's a start The Greater Meh (talk) 23:38, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
Minor formatting edits, and adding in a missing chunk for Pacification of Rage The Greater Meh (talk) 23:40, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
Formatting again The Greater Meh (talk) 23:55, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
Trying to give each "Horseman" gear that helps them with their own Special Rule/Anti-allegiance, taken from either generic wargear (Defensive grenades, Psychic Hood) or the Chaos Chosen/Chosen Champions options.
So what I've got is Apathy has defensive grenades to potentially blind Berserkers, Stagnation has a Psychic Hood so he can more easily Deny the Witch against Tzeentch's sorcerers, Desiccation has a missile launcher, which when combined with -1T to Nurgle marines does have the threat of Insta-gibbing the rotten bastards. I just having trouble with Nihilism.
Also "Apathy" or "Nihilism" may need a new name, they're both thematically appropriate, but have similar connotations. I was thinking "Deprivation" for "Nihilism", but it doesn't feel right, ya know? The Greater Meh (talk) 17:02, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Adding in an option for all "Horsemen" to be purchased, I think I've got the points about right, (+20 from WS, BS, I, and W boosts minimum, the rest of the cost inflation coming from the gear and rules) but I may have erred on the expensive side, again The Greater Meh (talk) 19:37, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Apathy, (Anti-Khorne)

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Apathy 5 5 4 4 2 5 2 9 3+


Unit Composition:
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
Wargear: Power Armor, Plasma Gun, Plasma Pistol, CCW, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Defensive Grenades
Special Rules: Champion of Chaos, Mark of Malal, Veterans of the Long War, Fearless
  • Pacification of Rage: Fluff, fluff, anti-Khorne fluff. Whenever ever any model charges a unit that includes this model their charge distance is reduced by 1d3. Should the charging unit have any models with the Mark of Khorne, or Daemon of Khorne special rules they instead lose 2d3" of charge distance.
Options:
  • This model may be purchased as an upgrade to any Null Champion for --- +60 Points

Nihilism, (Anti-Slaanesh)

Forces any opponent who fires at this Squad to make Snap Shots.

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Nihilism 5 5 4 4 2 5 2 9 3+


Unit Composition:
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
Wargear: Power Armor, Heavy Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
Special Rules: Champion of Chaos, Mark of Malal, Veterans of the Long War, Fearless
  • Ending of Sensation: Fluff, fluff, anti-Slaanesh fluff. Whenever any unit fires at a unit containing this model they are treated as if their BS is 1 lower. Should the unit contain any model with the Mark of Slaanesh or Daemon of Slaanesh special rules, they are instead forced to make Snap Shots.
Options:
  • This model may be purchased as an upgrade to any Null Champion for --- +50 Points

Stagnation, (Anti-Tzeetch)

Seriously fuck with your opponents Psychic phase.

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Stagnation 5 5 4 4 2 5 2 9 3+


Unit Composition:
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
Wargear: Power Armor, Combi-Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Psychic Hood
Special Rules: Champion of Chaos, Mark of Malal, Veterans of the Long War, Fearless
  • Stilling of the Warp: Fluff, fluff, anti-Tzeentch fluff. Whenever Stagnation rolls to Deny the Witch, he does so at a 4+. Should any models or units with the Mark of Tzeentch or Daemon of Tzeentch attempt to manifest any psychic powers while Stagnation is on the battlefield, they always take a Perils of the Warp on any roll of doubles.
Options:
  • This model may be purchased as an upgrade to any Null Champion for --- +50 Points

Desiccation, (Anti-Nurgle)

All Feel No Pain rolls are reduced by 1 (4+ becomes 5+, 6+ ceases to function)

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Desiccation 5 5 4 4 2 5 2 9 3+


Unit Composition:
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
Wargear: Power Armor, Missile Launcher with Frag, Flakk and Krak missiles, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades,
Special Rules: Champion of Chaos, Mark of Malal, Veterans of the Long War, Fearless
  • Cleansing of Rot: Fluff, fluff, anti-Nurgle fluff. Whenever a unit that includes Desiccation makes a shooting attack, treat their target's Toughness as one lower than listed. So long as Desiccation is on the battlefield all models with the Mark of Nurgle or Daemon of Nurgle specials rules suffer a -1 penalty to their Feel no Pain rolls.
Options:
  • This model may be purchased as an upgrade to any Null Champion for --- +75 Points

Legacy of Ruin[edit]

Wanted to try and make a Malal legacy, see below.

Vessel of Xemn'yn'me'X the Void: This Legacy of ruin may be taken by a single Chaos Space Marine vehicle at a cost of +10 points or +15 points for a Super-Heavy vehicle. This vehicle has the Fear and Daemonic Possession special rules. In addition, whenever any unit within 12" equipped with an Icon of Anarchy suffers a wound, they may make a Ld check, if this check is successful then the attacking unit suffers a wound with no armor or cover saves allowed. Should a model with legacy be removed as a casualty every unit with an Icon of Anarchy within 12" suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit, these hits share the same profile as the weapon that removes the vehicle with this legacy.

Hmmm. I don't really like this one. Making a Leadership check every wound sounds incredibly tedious and the risk of losing entire units to a single shot, high damage weapon makes me not want to try to get the bonus from this Vessel.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 18:10, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Okay how about "Any unit equipped with an Icon of Anarchy within 12" of a Vehicle with this legacy may re-roll any unsuccessful Armour, Cover, or Invulnerable saves, should a Vehicle with this legacy be removed as a casualty, every unit with an Icon of Anarchy with 12" suffers d3 S:7, AP2, wounds, no saves may be made against these wounds."
Should be less confusing, while keeping both the defensive & self-destructive elements there (Edit) think about adding a once per turn per unit stipulation to the re-rolling saves The Greater Meh (talk) 18:27, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Here is my try: This Legacy of ruin may be taken by a single Chaos Space Marine vehicle at a cost of +15 points or +20 points for a Super-Heavy vehicle. This vehicle has the Fear and Daemonic Possession special rules. In addition, any unit equipped with an Icon of Anarchy within 12" may re-roll any unsuccessful saves. Should a model with this legacy lose its last HP it suffers an Explodes! result on the vehicle damage table. If the model is a Super-Heavy vehicle it automatically suffers a Titanic Explosion.

Yeah that looks good, I think we got this The Greater Meh (talk) 19:01, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Herald of Malal/Malice[edit]

Okay first attempt at a "Named" herald, the logic here is that Solipsism is a philosophy that says only through observation can things exist, for Malal & his daemons, the fact that they can see things existing is kinda one of things that pisses them off, so in Solipsism, if you stop observing something it doesn't exist then by the fact it doesn't exist any more pleases Malal (I don't think I'm making any sense here).

TL:DR, he makes things exist, then ignores them to make them not exist, he's an existential crisis on legs, or tenactkes, or I don't know, He doesn't exist, and it's confusing. The Greater Meh (talk) 16:13, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Solipsism - 110 points (Herald)

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Solipsism 6 5 4 4 2 6 5 8 -


Unit Composition: Solipsism
Unit Type: Infantry (Character)
Daemonic Rewards: Etherblade, Sickle of Ruin, Lesser Locus of Decimation
Special Rules: Daemon of Malal, Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike, Independent Character
  • Nothing Besides The Self: All things are the same, all things are the self, when the Self is removed all things must be removed. Any enemy unit locked in combat with Solipsism or his unit gains the Daemonic Instability special rule or loses that special rule if they already have it.
  • The Self Is All: What benefits the self benefits all, what harms the self harms all. All models with the Daemon of Malal Special Rule within 6" may, at the beginning of the Assault phase, either increase their Strength and Attacks by 1, or decrease the WS and Initiative of any enemy models in base contact by 1 (this penalty can only be applied once per turn).
  • Out of Sight, Out of Mind, Out of Reality: If the self cannot realize the existence of the non-self, the non-self cannot exist. If a model cannot draw Line of Sight to Solipsism they may not make shooting attacks against him. If Solipsism is in a unit this special rule does not affect the ability for enemy units to target his unit.
Options: May take a Parasite Tick - 45 pts
  • Bs and Ws, quite nice. S, T and W, beautiful.I and A, makes sense. Nothing besides the self might be a bit to effective, but until tested I am not sure. Only Ml1 though? And by type does it mean as in, infantry, beast and so on?
No, by type I might mean Name? (Does that make sense?) if Solipsism kills a guardsman in a squad of ten (9 now) they then test Ld with a roll of 6 (-2) giving a result of 4, that's 3 below their Ld of 7, so another 3 models from that unit are removed, leaving 6 Guardsmen in total, but not any "Named Characters" as they are different from the "self", it's a strange rule, with a strange effect that I tried to make feel as if the universe itself can't distinguish between nameless grunts 1, 4, 3, 7, 10, 145, & 0, so when Solipsism kills grunt 1, the universe gets confused and think that he's killed 1, 4, 145, & 7, and all of them die because they cease to exist in the universes eyes. Am I making any sense at all here? Also for the stats, They're pretty much lifted wholesale from the base Herald, with a boost to W and Ld, the other rule comes from teh fact that Solipsism is wielding a Sickle of ruin, and may pass a minimised version of its benefits to unit in a small radius. The Greater Meh (talk) 18:10, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
  • You really didnt think about the statline when you made it? Ws 6 + Bs 5 = 11. S + T + W = 11. I and A are 10 though so not quite perfect. And the rule makes sense especially lore wise, but for some possibly better description I suggest looking at Tzayn the Infinites abbility, which has a very simmilar effect.
I didn't spot that stats = 11's thing myself, now that you've pointed it out, yeah that's some awesome serendipity. Also I don't have access to a Necron Codex and I can't find an accurate breakdown of Trazyn's text on the interwebs, so until I do, it'll look really awkward, sorry, I just don't know how to word it well The Greater Meh (talk) 19:17, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
Additional Potential Rule Out of Sight, Out of Mind, Out of Reality: If the self cannot realise the existence of the non self, the non-self cannot exist If a Model cannot draw Line of Sight to Solipsism, Herald of Malal they may not make shooting attacks against (effectively rendering him immune to Homing & Barrage Attack). (I am having so much fun writing these Ice Cream Koans) The Greater Meh (talk) 22:45, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

As fortunate a coincidence as Solipsism's strength, toughness and wounds adding up to 11 is, no special character Daemonic herald has an increase in any of those stats meaning we can't have Solipsism possess more wounds than the base herald, it's the same thing with Leadership. To compromise, I've raised his A to 5 so that his initiative and attacks add up to 11. I've also removed his access to the Telekinesis discipline since the Changeling only has access to the Change and Daemonology disciplines. By the way, I've added it up and his additional attack and special rules are 25 points so raise his cost or remove the leadership penalty if you think that's too cheap.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 23:36, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

I will bow to your knowledge on points cost, you've seen the mess I made on the Tau Auxiliaries when it came to costing, I think he might be the most expensive herald in the game though The Greater Meh (talk) 23:47, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

I've done a little more editing. His psychic powers are removed (since the Changeling is the only unique herald that has psychic powers) and the Sickle of Ruin (he can use his own bonus instead) as well. I've added your Out of Sight, Out of Mind, Out of Reality rule to him since it's very flavorful but also a bit of a gimmick since it's very situational (very few units have the ability to fire on things that are out of sight and those with a barrage weapon are unlikely to pick a lone character as a target since their barrage is likely to miss completely unless it's a very big blast). Also, I gave him a Lesser Locus of Decimation since every named herald except the disgraced Masque has one. Lastly, I'm thinking that Nothing Besides the Self could cause enemy units that are locked in combat with Solipsism or his unit to have the Daemonic Instability special rule instead of the effect Un'tan gave it. If we do that then the Lesser Locus of Decimation should be replaced with a Greater Locus of Devastation.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 01:19, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

  • Since demons of malal are more scarse and often stronger than regular daemons can't we allow his Herald to have an extra wound? It also just makes it look all too good with 11 all over its stats.

Here's a weird thing that Nothing Besides the Self can do.

  • Nothing Besides The Self: All things are the same, all things are the self, when the Self is removed all things must be removed. Any enemy unit locked in combat with Solipsism or his unit gains the Daemonic Instability special rule or loses that special rule if they already have it.

Other than Daemonic Instability, Daemons have no defenses against fleeing (and then getting swept) and this special rule removes that defense while models that would gain Daemonic Instability don't have any ways of affecting the outcome, causing them to end up losing extra models (especially hurtful if they are expensive models but ones that have to be deployed in bulk are going to lose quite a few) if they lose a combat and get a bad roll. Again, it's quite nasty because special rules such as stubborn, And They Shall Know no Fear and other things meant to affect morale checks won't help at all.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 16:01, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

That sounds interesting, also it fits with the "fluff", (and considering that Tony Ackland who talks about his version of Malal/Malice/Malign, that Malal was kinda the daemon SS, I get to write a lot of strange sentences here) but I've never played, or played against Daemons, so I don't quite know how instability works beyond what the Chaos Daemons Tactica States so question. Does the regenerative purpose of a roll of double 1's only affect models with the Daemon USR? The Greater Meh (talk) 17:01, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

http://wh40klib.ru/codex/Actually_codex_and_rule/Chaos_Daemons_6-th_ed_Eng.pdf Use this link to get a pdf. It should explain everything. I've also added my modification to Solipsism. Do you think he's finished? Which Locus should he have? On the one hand Crusader is a nice offensive buff that helps him to sweep daemons but being less affected by daemonic instability is a great contrast towards causing models to lose its benefit or suffer its drawbacks.--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 23:53, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Honestly reading the Instability rule made me smile, Reality Blinks indeed, and yeah it does seem good & fluffy so I think its a really good fit, making Grey Knight blink out of existence like the Daemons they banish seems Karmic to me. As for the Loci, Give him the lesser as base, and allow it to purchase the Greater Loci as an upgrade, allows any body who wants to play him a choice as to how he plays, although the Greater Loci feels fluffier with the whole "I exist and I can't see you therefore you do not exist" confusion he's got going on The Greater Meh (talk) 01:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Found an Image that'll do for now, until someone with more skill at hunting through the internet can find something better [1]

Solipsism's Leadership[edit]

Shouldn't Solipsism have Ld 9 in its stats because of the Greater Locus? All Heralds have base Ld 8, so it is doubtful Solipsism is an exclusion from the rule (seriously, how the unit with such name may have Leadership lower than other daemon lieutenants?)

Daemon Engines of Malal[edit]

There aren't any Malal centric Daemon Engines.

Let's correct that.

Names to try and make into models: Unmaker (Basic), Anarchy-Bringer (possibly some sort of Aura that really fucks with Ld, but doesn't have direct offensive power), the Void-Mirror (reflects attacks, or acts defensively), the Conflicted (Gains power through taking damage or something)

Void-Razer - Fast Attack (Vehicle, Flyer, Hover, 180 Points)

Name BS FAV SAV RAV HP
Void-Razer 3 11 11 10 3


Unit Composition: 1 Void Razer
Unit Type: Vehicle, Flyer
Special Rules: Daemonforge, Strafing Run, Dedication to Malal (Closest Vehicle thing to the Mark because I think only Infantry can take the mark, if wrong change to Mark of Malal)
Wargear: 2 Reaper Auto-Cannons, 2 Havoc Launchers
Options:
  • May replace both Reaper Auto-Cannons with a Single Hades Auto-Cannon (Free)
  • May replace both Reaper Auto-Cannons with 2 Helstorm Auto-Cannons (10 Points)


Anarchy Bringer - Fast Attack (Vehicle, Fast, 75 Points)

A twisted and shattered version of the Salamander Command Vehicle, the Anarchy Bringer can often be found racing ahead of the Son's main warband; it's daemonic flamers scorching away the physical world, even as psychic messages of hatred and self-destruction spew forth from its corrupted loud-hailers.

Name BS FAV SAV RAV HP
Anarchy Bringer 3 12 10 10 3


Unit Composition: 1 Anarchy Bringer
Unit Type: Vehicle, Fast, Open Topped, Tank
Special Rules: Daemonforge, Scout, Amphibious, Voice of Anarchy
  • Voice of Anarchy: Any unit without a dedication to Malal of some kind within 12" suffers a -2 penalty to Ld.
Wargear:
  • Turret Mounted Autocannon
  • Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter
  • Searchlight
  • Smoke Launchers

Idea for a super-heavy engine that just wouldn't leave my head (Yes I'm aware I wrote it like a Malal-centric piece of propaganda, it just wanted to come out that way) The Greater Meh (talk) 16:23, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

Weapon edit The Greater Meh (talk) 00:35, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Oblivion Engine - Lord of War (Vehicle, Super Heavy, Tank) 900 Points(WIP)

'None know where the Obliterator virus first came from, the strange techno-organic virus seemingly just coming from the warp without rhyme nor reason. None of the Dark Mechanicum sought to question this, so long as they could wield it in the name of their chaotic Masters.

Such is the will of Malal, to know that those zealots would never question, not when so great a tool just fell into their laps.

Now that the seeding of his greatest gift has long been complete Malal finally moves in the shadows, capturing, collecting, assembling the Cult of Destruction to his side for their true purpose. Only when they have gathered in their dozens does he reveal unto them his intentions, their final gift. To become the Engines of Oblivion.

Reforging them in doubt, feeding them with weapons from Mankind, Xeno, and Heretic alike, blending their original forms together until they no longer resemble anything that could've once been a man, instead taking on the form of the greatest Engines of Destruction as they are forced to merge together or lose themselves in the whirling, grinding storm of destructive hunger. Until they are finally doused in Malal's own blood, stealing them of any and all remaining reason, what little could ever remain through such a blessing

Now the Oblivion Engines rumble across all existence, leaving behind Empty Night and Nothingness in their wake.

Name BS FAV SAV RAV HP
Oblivion Engine 4 14 13 12 9


Unit Composition: 1 Annihilator Engine
Unit Type: Vehicle, Super Heavy Tank,
Special Rules: Daemonforge, Dedication to Malal (Closest Vehicle thing to the Mark because I think only Infantry can take the mark, if wrong change to Mark of Malal)
  • Metal Hunger: Whenever a model with this Special rule destroys a vehicle by Ramming it, roll a D6 for every Hull Point the Rammed vehicle has, for every 3+ that is rolled, this vehicle gains a Hull Point, up to a maximum of 15 hull points.
  • Oblivion Strain Weapons: In each of your shooting phases you must choose what Primary weapon the Oblivion engine will fire from the list below. It may not fire the same weapon in two consecutive shooting phases.
  • Annihilator Cannon (R-108", S:10, AP3, Primary Weapon 1, Large Blast)
  • Oblivion Scourge (R-Hellstorm, S:6, AP5, Primary Weapon 1, Hellstorm)
  • Star Fall Cannon (R-48", S:6, AP4, Apocalyptic Barrage (6), Blinding, Pinning)
  • Plasma Blastgun
  • Vulcan Mega Bolter
  • Obliterator Sponson Weapons: In each of your shooting phases you may choose to manifest up to four sponson weapons (two on each side) using the Following List. You may not fire the same weapon in two consecutive shooting phases.
  • Twin-Linked Plasma Cannon
  • Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer
  • Twin-Linked Assault Cannon
  • Twin-Linked Lascannon
  • Twin-Linked Multi-Melta
Wargear: Oblivion Strain Fleshmetal
Options:

Knightmare Mount[edit]

Potential option given that it's there, so may as well try to make something for it.

Knightmare: This vicious daemon may only be ridden by the most powerful and stubborn Heralds of Malal. Many who try find themselves dead at a Knightmare's hooves and fangs, a feast for the daemonic horse they could not tame, those who succeed however are rewarded with both the Knightmare's prowess, and another constant fight against their unwilling mount. Any model with a Knightmare Mount as a steed gains +1T, +1W, may re-roll one failed save per turn. May only be taken by Chaos Lords or Sorcerers with the Mark of Malal (as every other Steed). However the rider may wear Terminator Armour due to the Knightmare's prodigious strength far beyond other mounts.

Points Cost - 50 ish? sound good?

The idea here is that's not as fast as the other Steed option, but it's a hell of a lot more unstoppable, and probably costlier too. Other ideas I had for it was giving the rider Strikedown, Smash, and a 3++ Inv save, which is still fairly powerhousey. The Greater Meh (talk) 19:41, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

If putting them down as an independent unit rather than a Mount is also an option, they should probably be Elite Beasts (without the Fleet rule) with the ability to charge straight through enemy units as part of their movement action, rather than being bogged down in combat. Fluff it as them charging through enemies, circling around, and charging again, and again, and again, until their poor targets are nothing more than greasy stains on their hooves.

Knightmare (Steed of Malal, Elite, 75 Points)

Name WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Knightmare 5 - 5 5 4 3 4 8 -


Unit Composition: 1 Knightmare
Unit Type: Infantry (Beasts)
Daemonic Rewards: ---
Special Rules: Daemon of Malal, Daemonic Instability, Deep Strike, Mad Stampede, Tireless.
  • Mad Stampede: This Special Rule functions as Hammer of Wrath USR save for the following modification. If a model with this special rule charges and ends its charge move in base contact with one or more enemy models, it makes 1d3, S:User, AP-, Rending additional Attacks that hit automatically. These Attacks are resolved during the Fight sub-phase at the Initiative l0 step. This does not grant the model an additional Pile In move at the Initiative l0 step.
  • Tireless: This model may Run and Charge in the same turn.
Options
  • May purchase up to 2 additional Knightmare models for --- 75 points/Model
Changed the original idea for Mad Stampede to function more like an upgraded Hammer of Wrath, added Tireless, and put in a price bump from 60 to 75. The Greater Meh (talk) 15:08, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Greetings from Argentina my friends! Im a chaos player foe about 18 years. I have allways un my mind to do this army and you people make it true. I have ideas, drawings and a lot of will to make a book of this, like a real rule book, but an anarchic one, the only rulebook that doesnt exist and shall be printed form here. Im a concept artist in the video games world, and i do 3D too, so i think its very viable to design the creatures, te one and unique creatures of this army and release them for free through internet... well, thats some of the ideas. I wish to talk with some one of this team to make this proyect see the ligth. Those interested contactme, please. If not i will keep doing the chaos work by my self. Cheers! --Lord Ignatius (talk) 04:36, 16 November 2017 (UTC)User:Lord Ignatius (talk) 1:29, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

==Ilnaji, you seem to forget how locuses work in 8th, it's a buff aura to all appropriate deamons, and if we're gonna make it a debuff cus malal, at least discuss it first. also deleting peoples stuff is rude, even more so without a single comment


I dont remember delete anything

6th Spell[edit]

It was asked if the Malal discipline in 40k and Fantasy was always missing a power and the answer is yes, a power wasn't made up. Any ideas on what to use?--Cryptek Szerasp (talk) 17:57, 15 May 2018 (UTC)