Talk:Mario
Does anyone remember the thread wherein Mario canon was investigated and expanded upon in an attempt to create a full GRIMDARK RPG setting? I think it's worthy of an article but I don't feel like writing it right now. I saved most of the good bits from the thread, though, if anyone else wants to take a stab at it:
""I don't expect you to believe me. No one ever does, 'scept the boys down at the Union hall. We know...we all know. Every plumber in the city who's ever had to go down under the streets has either seen one, or is just waiting for his first sighting. Hell, I shouldn't be telling you this...we ain't supposed to talk about it. Union rules. But who can you tell who'd believe it?
The Pipes are down there.
Oh, real funny asshole. I ain't talking about no steel or plastic pipes, or even the old lead ones we sometimes gotta replace. The Pipes were down there when they started diggin' the sewers. No one knows who, what, when, or why - none of that stuff - all we knows is where.
They're green, and shiney - even though they gotta be older than even the whole damn country. The green is the metal...it ain't no paint - we tried scrapin' them once, but we can't even scratch the damn things. No, it ain't no corrosion! I been a plumber for thirty years, you think I don't know what a corroded pipe looks like?
Anyway, if you're lucky, you'll only see a small one. About as big around as your arm, maybe smaller. Cold air always blowing out of them, like a soft breeze.
If you're unlucky, you'll see one of the big ones. One big enough for a grown man - even one with a belly like mine - to crawl through, no problem. Some go up and down, coming out of the floor or ceiling to hang open in the middle of the room. Some come out of a wall sideways, like a tunnel. Doesn't really matter, though. No one wants to find one of the big ones, however it runs."
"Because sometimes things come out of them, that's why! Bigass turtles - mean things...smart, too. Or these crab-lookin' things. All kinds of crazy shit.
Stop laughin', I'm serious here! I saw one of the turtles, once, and it was as tall as I am! Mario was the first to get everyone to believe it. He and his brother found six pipes, all together, and got attacked by a whole pack of the things. They fought for hours, but finally managed to kill 'em all. We laughed at them both, too, until they hauled in a shell.
Since then more people have seen the things from The Pipes. Union policy these days is that if you find one of The Pipes on a job - don't matter what size, you come right back and report it. The Union sees you get paid more, and that you don't go back down alone. That's how the mob got in with the Union, but hey - we needed protection, y'know?
What's that? Oh, I don't know where Mario is these days. He came back up one day, saying he found one of the big ones, and that he swore he'd heard some dame yelling for help in it. He thought maybe one of the things had grabbed one of the crazies that live down under the city. No one wanted nothing to do with no kidnappers from The Pipes. So he marched right back down there - we followed along, since some of our 'friends' went with him - and damn if he didn't walk right into that hole, head held high...like some sorta hero, or something.
Well, after we yelled after him for a couple of minutes without no answer, Luigi - that's Mario's brother - went a running after him before anyone could get ahold of him. Last we heard of either of the brothers was Luigi yellin', "Maaaariiiioooo! Maaaaariiioooo!" like he was a zillion miles away.
And that, my friend, is why the Union sent me over here. We gotta talk about what you're paying our boy Antonio, because guess what you got down in your sub-basement?"
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Continuing a topic from the end of that now-autosaging GRIMDARK thread. Best to start with the original bit of dialog:
(At the front of the hall, the doors slam open. An undead skeleton topples down the steps, splaying out at the bottom to clearly reveal the crushed skull. The massive figure seated at the dining table looks up to the entrance.) B: So. You've come. M: You thought your paltry defenses would stop me, monster? B: Monster? I who have kept my honor, who stood by and watched as those under my charge were slaughtered without mercy? M: You will pay for abducting the princess. Your reign ends here. (Bowser sweeps the table aside with one crashing swipe of his arm.) B: And who are you to challenge my sovereignty, human? What has that princess offered you, an outsider, that you might fall to her will as readily as those servile Toads? M: What has become of her? B: My subjects brought word of your deeds to me again and again. My most loyal of subjects, the best of Koopas- crushed. Even as you struck down my child did I stay my hand, for I had given my word that she would come to no harm, and I have kept it. M: Say what you will, fiend. You have brought this fate upon yourself. B: Enough! The gods have made me as I am to lead the Koopas to glory, not so that I might simper at the will of some fair-haired maiden. It is you who shall meet your fate this day!
And a prequel, while I'm at it:
B: So it is true. You intend to seek him out. (Bowser Jr. continues to don pieces of armor for several moments before replying.) J: You speak as though there can be any other option. B: Do not do this, my child. You know how many have fallen at his hand- J: Precisely why I must now meet him on the field of battle. My blood allows no less. B: Would that I could hear such proud words in times less cruel! You bring such pride to us all, boy, but think of the cost. Would you deny your art? Truly it is your murals that give our castles their soul- J: I have painted of grand deeds enough, I think. I do not go alone, father. Wario will stand beside me- B: He is a human, boy, and a brigand among brigands at that. J: His selfish nature serves my purposes. I can handle him. B: Again I beg you. Think of the future of our people- J: What comes first, father? To rule the Koopas, or to be one worthy of that title? Do you really expect me to believe that your actions in my place would be any different? B (quietly): I would know that I go to my death. (Bowser Jr. silently meets his father's gaze). B: Oh, my child. In my desperation I deny the truth even as it lies plain before my face. Forgive my insult; you are no boy, but a man. And you are everything I could ever hope for in a son. (The two embrace tightly.) J: And I in a father. Farewell.
Just to run through the basics of what was mentioned in the other thread:
Bowser is the leader of the proud and honorable Koopa clan; it was his grandfather who first began to unify the warring people of the wastes under a single banner, Genghis Khan-style. Humans are a rare noble class in Toad Society, with a new human child falling down from the sky once every decade are so. Yoshis are a warrior race who live in the fierce jungles of their home island. And no one's sure what motives the Shy Guys have, or whether there's anything beneath their masks; there's clearly some purpose behind their actions, but no one's sure what. . .
The truth behind the Shy Guys and the lie behind the honorable lineage Bowser takes so much pride in can both be traced to one individual: Kamek, leader of the Magikoopas and the Koopa clan's trusted advisor for generations. In truth, the Koopa clan were base warlords like any other before Kamek began to manipulate them- using high-minded talk of honor to guide their actions while twisting their forms to become more monstrous and powerful through his dark magic. In some ways Bowser is his greatest success, for the turtle is a highly charismatic leader and one of the prophesied Star Children to boot. The only problem is that the warlord truly believes in the concept of personal honor, which could soon make him more trouble than he's worth- after all, Kamek can't have him ending the conflict with the mushroom kingdom without burning that land to the ground, first.
The next big order of business is a note on the protagonists of the Mario universe. I'll start by referring people to http://www.mariowiki.com/Star_Children; but what I really want to focus on is what the Mario series tells us about Mario and Luigi.
Here's the thing about these twin brothers: The events of Super Mario World 2 are canon in that *before they were born*, the two brothers had an adventure in the Mushroom Kingdom. Luigi was snatched up by Kamek, and baby Mario had to get the Yoshis to go rescue his brother.
Now, Luigi was rescued and the brothers were able to proceed on to the real world- though their past experience makes it possible to call them back to the Mushroom World, they have no conscious memories of this first experience by the time this occurs. Still, the incident shapes their relationship and respective personalities from the very beginning.
Mario's experience was to witness an incredible series of battles in the care of the Mushroom kingdom's bravest and most valorous warrior race. Luigi, meanwhile, was a helpless prisoner/test subject for the Mushroom World's foremost master of dark magic- his prebirth experience was a traumatic ordeal, to say the least.
Now, think about how this shapes a child. Even at a very young age, when something distressing occurs to these twin brothers, what happens? Luigi would naturally shy away, while his brother would be much less fearful and much more inclined to play the role of protector (in an imitation of his own 'pre-birth' parental figures). From the very beginning, Mario naturally steps forward to play the role of the hero, leaving his brother to hid in his shadow. And that in turn means that Mario is the one to face the challenges, unwittingly denying his brother chances to grow and develop into his own.
Now, here's another thing. In the past several years, there have been these odd but unambiguously stated hints from Nintendo that all is not right with Mario's younger brother. I can't make this shit up: -In Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time the all-knowing Star Gate states that Luigi has a "dark secret from his past" and refuses to let him through because he is "unworthy." -In SSBB, the trophy for Luigi's head-scratching final smash states that "This technique is a reflection of the dark side he embraced in his brother's shadow." -And in Super Paper Mario, the big bad of the story is destined by prophecy to absorb an artifact known as the Chaos Heart and use it to annihilate the multiverse. Except that after his defeat we get an end-game plot twist: The subject of the prophecy is actually Luigi.
Let me reiterate that: Luigi was the ideal host for an ages-old artifact that, when combined with him, ripped open the fabric of the multiverse and would have sucked every last world into a void of nothingness. This is canon. And did I mention the thematic inverse of this artifact was true love?
You could almost imagine the mushroom kingdom, as portrayed in the games and so on, as the brother's childhood recommendations of what they now think was an imaginary world they invented together. So it would come as quite a shock when they return to the "real" mushroom kingdom, with Mario quickly identifying himself as the sixth of the prophesied Star Children with his newfound ability to throw fire.
Say that things start to play out in classic fashion. Mario meets the Princess and so on, Koopas kidnap her, Mario volunteers to go to her rescue. Luigi, not being a mighty prophesied hero and not having any eagerness to throw himself into danger, stays behind.
Then things get derailed into Luigi's Mansion territory- Mario gets tricked and captured, and can't escape without outside assistance. It's worth noting that this is a crucial milestone for the "king of second bananas", as a certain SSBB sequence referred to him. Luigi's been in danger plenty of times, he can put up a fight (if not a good one). But this is different- with his brother in jeopardy, Luigi willingly seeks out danger in order to confront it.
I'd like to take a moment here to talk about the Boos. The canon for them has awlays been rather odd- they're both ghosts and a separate race. They live in old, ruined mansions that look nothing like anything else in the mario setting. What's a logical explanation for all this? Well, for starters, that the boos are victims of genocide. They're the ghosts of a separate race that was once alive. Specifically, the nobility of a peaceful nation neighboring the mushroom kingdom and enjoyed the benefits of their land's prosperity from the comfort of their fine mansions.
And then they were wiped out at the hands of a dark power that left them bitter remnants of their former selves, twisted beings confined to the ruins of their old estates and so filled with shame that they are incapable of bringing themselves face to face with a living being. Their nation became the Badlands, home of warring clans that raided the Mushroom Kingdom and were repulsed each time (until now). King Boo's title wasn't always such an empty one.
>>2471588 Well, here's the thing. Thanks in part to the machinations of Kamek, things turn out so that he [Mario] and Bowser are hated enemies when they finally come face to face, but things might have played out very differently if they'd gotten to know each other in better circumstances. And make no mistake- Mario is very much a hero. He's willing to singlehandedly take on incredible odds in order to defend the weak without requiring any reward; and he makes it look easy.
This in turn actually brings up the interesting difference between Mario and Luigi more than any other example. If being brave means charging in fearlessly, then Mario is the braver one; but if being brave means acting in *spite* of your fear, then one could say that Luigi is the true hero while his brother just goes through the motions. There's no right answer here.
Even Luigi doesn't know what to think- is his brother defending him or denying him a chance to prove himself? Does Mario love him ? See him as a burden? Respect him? Think of him as hopelessly weak? Luigi just plain doesn't know.
And this becomes more prominent after Luigi ventures into the mansion and comes out with a dazed Mario- who notices that his brother has become paler, and has now also gained the ability to throw fire (though in a strangely different form). It seems that there are actually *seven* star children, through the loophole of child # 5 being a pair of twins. But when Luigi provides some details of what he went through, everyone quietly concludes that he's exaggeratng his story, When pressed by Mario, they explain that while the story is probably largely truth, the details of Luigi's accounts of his more impressive acts all contain details which don't add up. Luigi wouldn't know that things like *killing* a Boo and removing a shy-guy's mask are impossible, so he'd have no reason to think people would see through his lie. But can you blame him? He just wants to be recognized, that's all.
Oh, and one other bit of semi-original fluff. Say the star children's power is in each case paired with a heroic virtue by the prophesy. In order of birth: Child of Selflessness: Yoshi Child of Idealism: Bowser Child of Hope: Wario Child of Determination: Donkey Kong (Sir not-appearing-in-this-film) Child of Courage: Mario Child of Love: Peach The trick is that a single heroic quality does not a force for good make. Wario is the best example; rather than making him an inspirational speaker, his "hopes" lead to his naked ambitions. The Toads would describe Bowser as an earnest idealist, but whose ideals can unfortunately be summed up as "Might makes right." (Of ourse, the Koopas would vehemently disagree)
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+++++++ I had always assumed that Shy Guys were living nightmares. Their bodies are shadows, and have no real physical properties at all. they need their masks and clothes to give them shape, something like the nazgul seem to. as dreams, they have no actual memories, but they are under the impression that they have a species/race/culture, but it is their culture's code to never speak of it to anyone, including to eachother.
they're nothings trying to find a shape +++++++
Shy Guys live in the rainforest and hunt with spears. They are completely silent, moving with great agility, rarely encountered except by those who become lost in the jungle. It is rumored that they steal children, but then again, that rumor has been spread about all primitives... plus, only adults have ever been seen. They have never been seen eating or drinking. When one is captured, hundreds of them appear immediately, as if they melted from the jungle itself, and the capturer usually does not escape.
Despite the tropical heat, they always wear thick long robes, and the rumors surrounding these are more horrifying than those concerning their populations - what are they made of, and what are they dyed with? Even in the midst of a bloody and filthy hunt, their masks are always pristine, whiter and smoother than bone. Get too close to one's face, and you will experience an awful compulsion to stare into its blacker-than-black eye-holes or mouth-hole.
There are many mysteries in the Mushroom Kingdom, but the face behind a Shy Guy's mask is one that nobody is eager to solve.
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(At the front of the throne room, the doors smash open. Mario steps through, carrying an oversized hammer. A figure, casually sat on the throne barely moves to regard him.) M: LUIGI! What have you done?! L: I have taken what is mine. M: The Mushroom Kingdom never belonged to you, and never will! L: Oh but it does. It all does. It is my birthright. (Luigi rises out of the throne and walks toward Mario) L: All these years in your shadow, Mario. You got the fame, the glory, yet I worked just as hard as you! So I just thought I should take my... payment for services rendered. M: What happened to you, Luigi?! L: YOU HAPPENED, MARIO! M: ... I won't let you do this. I'll stop you, even if it means we both die. (Luigi laughs, maniacally) L: Such brotherly sentiment! But you'll never get the chance! NEGATIVE ZONE! (A black sphere of energy grows from within Luigi to quickly encompass the entire room, trapping Mario. Mario struggles to move.) M: What have you done to me?! L: I've stopped you from stealing the limelight ever again. With you gone, the whole world will know my name; it will be burnt into the minds of every living being, for all time! (A ball of green flames erupts in Luigi's hand, which he points towards Mario) L: NOW DIE! (A massive jet of flames roars towards Mario, seemingly engulfing him. However, as the flames die down, Peach is revealed, swiftly spinning an armour plated parasol) P: Luigi! I'll never let you hurt Mario OR the Mushroom Kingdom! (Suddenly, a cracking sound is heard and a whip wraps around one of Peach's arms and is yanked backwards. Daisy steps out of the shadows in a yellow leather catsuit and spike heels, a small crown perched on her head, and a whip in one hand.) D: Peachy, Peachy, Peachy... You didn't think I'd let you interfere, did you? You see, I have a score to settle with you. P: What did I ever do to you?! D: Oh it's nothing you did, but what you DIDN'T do. At all those society galas, those lavish balls we both attended, you were the one everyone adored, the Princess of the Mushroom Kingdom! Yet all you did was simply revel in the adoration. I may be a princess too, but of what? My title was simply a cruel joke, yet you did nothing! All the laughter, all the pity and spite, YOU had the power to stop that, but you did NOTHING! And now I'll take everything away from you, so you'll be the one with nothing.
Finally fed up with Mario's admiration leaving Luigi to rot in its shadow, Luigi spies a green comet flashing across the sky one night, and he makes a desperate, perhaps foolish wish: "I wish the Mushroom Kingdom never knew Mario." Mario wakes up the next day to find a Mushroom Kingdom unlike anything he ever knew: Bowser is dead, Peach lost her kingdom decades ago and has been missing since, Luigi and Daisy rule with a iron green fist, and the world itself is being slowly eaten away by a negative zone summoned by Luigi himself. Nobody recognizes Mario; he's just a human who looks kind of like the overlord, in red. In this world, he must fight his way to his once-brother, and end the terrible tyranny he has produced, returning things to the peaceful way they once were, even if it means destroying his only family.
The last game to be produced by Shigeru Miyamoto, coming 2010.
A kingdom, forced into war to survive... (Rank upon rank of Koopa Troopas, marching) A princess, held hostage for daring to protect her kingdom... (Princess Peach, bound and gagged, being carried away by Koopa Troopas) A man, willing to sacrifice everything for the one he loves... (Mario fighting his way through rank after rank of Koopa Troopas) An epic tale of love... (Mario, protecting Peach by blocking the Koopa Troopas path) Honour... (Bowser and Kamek, arguing) B: What do you and your sorcery know of honour, bastard?! War... (Bowser Jr., putting on the last of his armour) J: We march... TO WAR!! And hatred... (Bowser and Mario, fighting on a rickety bridge over a bubbling pit of lava)
Shigeru Miyamoto's 2-part magnum opus, coming soon...
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Hey, back. I think that for the most part my thoughts are pretty much in line with what's been discussed so far, particularly regarding the Shy Guys. After >>2471974, the main thing I have to add is that their portrayal in combat could take cues from the Kushan Assassins seen at the start of volume 18 of Berserk- show up out of nowhere, stage attacks that are way faster and more coordinated than they have any right to be, and never say a word. While most of their attacks occur upon the yoshis in the jungles at their home, they have been known to strike without warning in many other locations as well.
As for Luigi: The discussion about him having creepy powers, about him being able to remove shyguy's masks, that all matches what I was working towards. But I don't see him as becoming petty, nor overtly evil in some other manner. I have to leave soon, but just quickly continue the story from >>2471668: Say that after this Mario continues on his journey- Luigi is kinda left behind again.
Meanwhile, Bowser Jr. (having set off after his conversation with his father in >>2470793) and his men come conflict with an enemy force: Princess Daisy and her retinue. Daisy is an odd one out among the nobility; she's always had an independent streak, and seems more at home as a "warrior princess" than she does in her assigned role as a courtly figure. And in her prior appearance she was one of the few at court who showed an interest in Luigi, talking with him openly and without condescension.
The battle between Daisy and Bower Jr. is interrupted by a sudden attack by the shyguys. As the only survivors of the initial massacre, the two leaders are forced to work together as they try to make their way across the Badlands to some sort of defensible position- not realizing Wario, who fled when the shyguys attacked, is now shadowing them from a distance.
At the same time, news of the decimation of Daisy's group reaches the Mushroom Kingdom, with daisy herself presumed captured or dead. Luigi sets off after her.
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>What about Snifits? Shyguys with modified masks, capable of spitting shards of their own tenebrous bodies at their prey?
Snifit masks are way different from Shyguy masks, and Snifits are chatty little fuckers. They live up in the mountains and have a society where a particular kind of beetle is used as currency. I'm not sure why; something to do with something the beetles excrete. They keep to themselves for the most part, although there's ruins of a tower up in the mountains that is unlike anything they would build on their own.
Their faces are deeply recessed behind the hoods; the mask is actually hunting gear. Binoculars and a surprisingly accurate pellet gun. They dress up like that because of the extreme temperature. Benign compared to a Shy Guy, but individually much deadlier, just because of that gun.
Coop 16:22, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
