Talk:Scrollhammer: Order of the Black Worm

Questions

Ask any questions you have about the codex here. --Dagoth Guy 05:05, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Ideas and Commentary

Please share any comments you have about the codex here. Also, if anyone has any ideas based on the lore or that they simply think fits the theme, please share them here. Any and all input, suggestions, or criticism is appreciated. --Dagoth Guy 05:05, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Observations:

Renaming the Necromancer HQ's might be worth it, not sure I like the Master/Grandmaster names. Should go with like 'Elder' then 'Master', or 'Master' then 'Ancient'. Up to you, but Master/Grandmaster doesn't feel very menacing or descriptive. Might just be me though.

Sload will almost certainly be fat and immobile. In the lore it's mentioned they can hardly move out of the water, instead relying upon levitation and recall spells. Some wild method of movement could be called for- perhaps requiring a certain new spell to move?

Only non-Undead are HQ or Support. I like it. Think some of the elite units should possibly carry disease? I could see Skeleton Champions and Mummies granting chills and rotworm, etc.

Having said all of that, I am very jelly. This looks like it would be a fun list to work on. Best of luck!

--FatherDuke 21:36, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Knowing my skill with codex crafting, I'll need all the luck I can get.

Grandmaster Necromancers: Roger. Renamed to Transcendent Necromancer.

Sloads: Rough draft of Sload racial traits is up.

Diseases: The disease list is up. Still need to decide their effects though.

Your jellyness: Don't be. There are plenty of much cooler codexes that havent even been started yet. If your looking for something to do, then I've gathered some resources for the Tombas of Hammerfell codex, so you can start on that one if you want to. If you really want to do something with undead however, then there are still the Vampires and the Ideal Masters mini-codexes that you could do. That being said, any help you can give with this codex would much appreciated.

My chief concern at the moment for this codex is coming up with some more unit types. It feels a little bare bones as it is right now, so any ideas you have on that front would be quite useful. Anyways, thanks for the input.

--Dagoth Guy 02:21, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

I like what you've laid out so far. Thanks for starting it.--Lolpwnt 05:41, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah... I can not into spellcasters. It would be great if some one could help by looking over those. Some help stating out Mannimarco and N'Gasta would also be appreciated. --Dagoth Guy 16:40, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Have some brainstormings. --FatherDuke 20:37, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

For Mannimarco, depends on what more you want him to have. He's already got all the Necromancy spells, and is pretty damn tanky for a wizard, so what else might be good? Also keep in mind the Tribunal are only 25 points more, so you can feel free to go absolutely nuts giving him SR's and abilities.

• Might want to give him a bonus to spell casting within the Demi-God line. Perhaps +10, but only for Conjuration, Necromancy, and Destruction?
• Staff of Worms: Perhaps some form of reanimation mechanic, for characters that fall within a certain distance? That or could make all enemy mortals that die within x" are automatically soul-trapped by him, and may be used to re-roll spells in addition to wounding/missing. Or something.
• Robes of the Worm King: Blood-red robes that float and shift as though living; confers a 3+ armor save and when wounded in close combat deals a 4+ poisoned hit to the attacker? That or some anti-magic effect maybe. If I was a godly lich guy I'd want SHIELDAN HEALTH-RESTORAN and MAGIC RESISTAN. That or a feather enchantment. How strong are liches anyways?
• Robes of the Worm King #2: Stylish robes. Each player turn the first hostile magick that would effect Mannimarco is ignored on a D6 4+, and on a failure the ward save may still be taken?
• ?????: Mannimarco ignores enemy Undead's resistance to disease, poison, and fearlessness.
• ?????: If you want to have the dude vomit out undead constantly, could have Mannimarco only use up Corpse Counters half as fast. Animated 8 (2d6) zombies? Normally -8 counters, actually -4. Or you could even have him never use or require corpse counters.

N'gasta

• Can certainly give this guy like +3 to all spellcasting or something, for 340 points
• Crimson robes: grants feels no pain?
• Amulet: Levitate and teleport automatically cast with only 1 power die each?
• What Appears to be a Leather Water Polo Cap: N'gasta causes Terror to Imga and is immune to rain?

N'Gasta! Kvata! Kvakis!: Casts on (3 dice or so) for enemy model. Casts on (5 dice or so) for target enemy unit. Range of like 18". Target must roll 2d6+3 under LD. For each point of failure it/they are paralyzed for a game turn. At the start of the enemy player's turn the afflicted unit may roll 2d6+3 under LD to attempt to dispel the effect early.

Soul-Snare: Casts on 30+. Cast during your shooting phase. Weather effect. Until the beginning of your next turn all enemy models within 15" of Ngasta take a S3 AP5 (magick) hit at the beginning of every phase. For each unsaved wound dealt Ngasta and joined unit gain a re-roll die, that may be used for striking, wounds, or spell casting.

Thanks, this certainly does help. --Dagoth Guy 07:23, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and to answer your question, to quote Uupse Fyr;

"As you know, he's probably the oldest and most powerful wizard alive. Not counting liches, or divine sorcerers like Vivec, of course. And there may be some older in the West, on Summerset Isles, perhaps."

This would seem to imply that there are liches older and more powerful than Divayth Fyr; and seeing as how Divayth Fyr is a 4000 year old super-wizard, that would mean that liches could get pretty damn powerful. --Dagoth Guy 07:23, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Was actually thinking in terms of physical strength, and whether or not FEATHER would be big among liches. Still, more reason to make Mannimarco completely nuts. --FatherDuke 02:03, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, well in that case, UESP says the liches from Tribunal do 20-50pts damage melee, which is the same amount that a Snow Bear does. I'm not sure exactly how accurate of a rubric that is, but all other things being equal, it would seem like they're about as strong as your average polar bear. As such, I'm going to go ahead and guess that they probably don't really have much of a need for Feather enchanments. --Dagoth Guy 02:37, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Brawny Liches are a go then. Also, never was one for worms either. Had a bad experience with a silk worm (or whatever the hell it was) as a young kid. THE MORE YOU KNOW. --FatherDuke 19:51, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Also, don't suppose you could chuck Undead Dragons into here? I realize we've already got the bone dragons from the Dragons list, but there had to have been some cases of necromancers going to town on the things. Could picture a monstrous creature/dragon upgrade combo for a monster. Maybe support. --FatherDuke 02:40, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Some sort of undead monstrous creature would an be awesome thing to include, the only question though is what. Unfortunately it wouldn't be lore appropriate to use dragons. Bone Dragons are technically "alive" despite not having any fleshy bits in the same way that a Frost or Storm Atronach is, which is to say by the barest definition possible. Dragons aren't just gaint scaly lizards, they're Ada; So while they can be not-quite-living, they can't undead. Hell, technically they can't even die in the traditional sense. Destroying their earthly vessel merely banishes them rather than killing them; and while killing and banishing basically acomplish the same thing, the big differences is that bringing them back as good as new is only a simple matter of summoning them rather than reviving them; Which is why Alduin is able to go around and do it so casually. Don't ask me where they're banished to, though, because I have absolutely no idea; Lesser Daedra are sent to oblivion when they're banished, but Dragons are a different class of Ada entirely. But I digress. Back to the topic on hand, this list really could use some more unit types, exspecially seeing as how Thrassian Plaguewrights might have to be moved to the Sload army list if we ever actually go through with doing that one. --Dagoth Guy 05:32, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Dagoth Guy is right, Bone Dragons are by necessity reanimated by a different form of necromancy than that which revives mortals, since a dragon is eternal. I would suggest some sort of rotting fleshbag giant made from corpses: just make sure it's not done in a cheesy or cliched way. And yes, liches are strong, but not designed for melee: they'd need a lot of magical buffs to fight in melee as efficiently as a pure stompy hero, but are no pushovers either.--Lolpwnt 06:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

I was suspecting something along those lines. Well, it was worth a shot. Super not-flesh golem is-a-go then? --FatherDuke 09:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Looks like it, yeah. So, we need to come up with some sort of terrible, unliving abomination composed of an amalgamation of reanimated corpses acting in concert? Like some sort of horrible, undead Megazord? ...While that does sound like could be awesome, doing this in a way that's not cheesy or cliched might be a bit difficult. --Dagoth Guy 16:27, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Hey, while browsing the UESP necromancy articles, I noticed that Sorkvild the Raven owned a copy of Arkay the Enemy, which confirms that he was a member of the Order of the Black Worm. Should I include him as a SC, or do you think that he's not relevant enough? (Interesting note; the same is true of Archmagister Gothren, which would seem to indicate that he was also a member of the order. It's always fun when you discover one of the neat extra tidbits the devs included.) Also, if anyone has any ideas on what the effect of Carrion Worms should be, that would be appreciated. --Dagoth Guy 19:04, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Carrion Worms: Maybe a reoccurring turnly fear check? Until otherwise cured? --FatherDuke (talk) 01:45, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to who ever wrote the flavor text for the Sload Worlocks. Every contribution helps, especially considering how terrible I am at writing. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 18:50, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey, so, if anyone knows where I can find the stats for Sly Marbo, then giving me the heads up would be immensely helpful towards stating out Beldoh the Undying. I could really use something to use as a comparison for characters in that point range. --Dagoth Guy (talk) 09:05, 10 December 2013 (UTC)