Talk:Space Marines

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TO THE FUCK UPS WHO BITCH ABOUT PAULDRONS[edit]

Big shoulderplates are a staple of the franchise faggots. AND EVERYONE FUCKING HAS THEM. Orkz, the upper echelon faggots of the Imperial Guard and Eldar, the Tau and so forth.

DEAL WITH IT. ANY FURTHER BITCHING ON THE MATTER WILL BE FORWARDED TO THE COMMISSARIAT.

Well not only is it the GW staple but alot of fantasy/sci-fi games like to use large pauldrons.

BUT FOR ALL YOU WHO REALLY CARE, JUST MOD YOUR MINIS!!!! STOP BEING BITCHES

Guidelines[edit]

Is there any way the Guidelines of the Space Marines could be put in double columns? A whole lot of the space on each line is wasted to the right side where it just cuts off. --71.229.74.0 05:34, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

I think we should select the best guidlines and streamline the list down to around 50-100 guidlines and get rid off all the others. Of course this list has been around since 2005 (originaly being around 200 guidlines) and a significant amount of rules have been added/lost/re-discovered since then. I would kill for the original list. -- Mr. Spooky 20 February 2012 (UTC)

SECOND VERSE, VERSE MATT WARD[edit]

They're so brave and fucking awesome that it's really quite obscene
They eat magma sandwiches washed down with gasoline
At playparks they can use the swings
But not the trampolines
They're the greatest, they're the Emperor's Marines!

This is all canon, obviously Tim 18:23, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


I lol'd Luigi 21:56, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

SUP?[edit]

So, anyone wanna create a page about this new toy?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Stormtalon_Gunship#.T8EdrdVYt1E

Chapter descriptions[edit]

I've noticed that a lot of users on here that try to help improve this page but are accidentally fucking it up. Personally, I wouldn't mind if you add more info to different sections and everything, but it's when the anons (and a certain user who shall remain nameless) messes with the descriptions on this part is when I want to ask the admins to at least protect that section (if that's possible) but I just revert the changes back to how they were. --88.198.100.230 04:36, 28 May 2012 (BST)

I second the motion. Anarchy is all well and good, and I'd expect a bit from a 4chan wiki, but that section is an absolute clusterfuck. Josman (talk) 16:26, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Edit War 2: Electric Boogaloo[edit]

The Dark Angels entry is a joke, we're well aware of their secretive nature. The joke, brought over from the Dark Angels page, is that there is a Dark Angel marine running around the wiki retconning any article that mentions the fallen. Of course its harder to get that joke when other editors have added multiple strikethroughs to every single entry on the list, which is why I'm embroiled in my own edit war to get rid of them. I guess we could all sit down and talk about it like adults. Or, you know, keep mashing the revert button. Whatever works for you guys. --Petro 05:51, 29 May 2012 (BST)

I'd say it's not "harder to get", it's just indistinguishable from the rest of the stuff on the list. We could, of course, try to come to some compromise... Fatum 10:42, 29 May 2012 (BST)

Heresy!

Kill on sight order[edit]

I think the 'Though the Imperium of Man has basic "kill on sight" orders for non-humans' line is misleading, Servitors are far less human than a Space Marine, as well as some of the heavily augmented Skitarii and Techpriests, and yet they're tolerated as well. --Wiser Guy 21:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

"In the grim darkness of the future, there is only hypocrisy."
Don't bother trying to point out the mistakes of the Imperium of Mankind; they won't listen. Rediscovered human colonies will be declared 'Chaos-tainted' if the local Inquisition finds them to be icky, even in the absence of any presence of the Warp.
--NotBrandX 16:07, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Biological Immortality[edit]

The ongoing 'debate' on biological immortality seems trite and reeking of fanboyism, it has been a constant since 2nd eddition that Marines are not immortal, a thing that even Matt Ward upheld despite his fanboyish tendencies. I really don't see how their are two 'valid' sides of the debate. Most of the immortal theory A) coming BL and B) being posited from the in character points of view of the first space marines, who at the time were still well with in their natural lifespans.

  • Also, the novels go back and forth on it while the codexes imply they aren't. Games Workshop has said the only fluff in the setting that is completely true, not open to interpretation is in the codexes.

Regular marine[edit]

Regular marine needs a page and since I am not very good at that sort of thing I wrote this in the hopes someone talented will read it

Your own guys?[edit]

Hey just wondering. Is it possible to add your own Chapter, without going through the /tg/ creation process? Cause I have an idea quite done, and just wondering if I can make a page without it being deleted cause /tg/ didn't do it? -- Dark Harlequin (talk) 08:30, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Don't make pages about your special snowflake Mary Sue Chapter. If it's an interesting idea, consider it. Or even better, make a thread about it on /tg/ and see how it's recieved first. --StargateNerd (talk) 22:28, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Understanding Astartes, and their relationship with Humanity[edit]

Hey guys, I'm looking for your thoughts on the following and whether it belongs on the page. Lord Captain Kitten (talk) 1:00, 19, November 2015 (UTC)

The Sacrifice of self: an analysis of the process and psychological modification of a human to an Adeptus Astartes. "They are more than human, they are steel and doom", one short line perfectly defines the Adeptus Astartes. It may seem like common sense but when you consider what a space marine actually is, you must start to consider what humanity has truly wrought.

We must remember two things, one an Astartes is a biological weapon two it is a weapon that possesses a soul. The initial idea for modified humans appears early in the galaxies history as cultures that were separated by warp storms or extreme distance manufactured their own version of defenders. Things that would be able to tackle the horrors of the Galaxy. Yet only with the coming of the Emperor and the primarch project do we see this process streamlined to produce hundreds of thousands of genetically modified trans-humans.

I want us to consider the following, the Emperor always knew he needed an advantage over the other galactic civilizations. His power was near infinite but even he couldn't persecute his conquest alone. His first attempt with the thunder warriors was.......problematic. Humans who were heavily modified to be little better than berserk monsters. knowing these forces were unreliable and in many ways unpredictable he focused on the next generation of enhanced bio weapons.

The thing he was right about is that humanity always responds better to something that is similar in appearance. Yes the Thunder warriors were brutal beyond measure but they were still essentially human, and needed a very specific control mechanism. The Adeptus Astartes are more akin to an assembly line soldier than a gene-modified barbarian, the specific organs that are introduced into their system rapidly change the baseline human into a pure weapon.

Then there is also the matter of the legion/chapter life that the new instrument of war is introduced to. They are removed from basic human society and become one with a body that is genetically and culturally based on a very specific source. The psychological conditioning that takes place is rather fascinating, as many of the Adeptus Astartes view their Primarchs as being "fathers", that is an amazing cultural construct.

We have to remember that in most cases an Aspirant is taken at a very young age, their potential identity is supplanted by what the Legion/chapter requires them to be. The introduction of the concept of a Primarch would be staggering a mind that is still in the process of forming, to explain to them that these beings are responsible for the transformation into a near perfect warrior would naturally create a psychological conditioning where said individual would see this being as his father, because they are literally reborn through their genetics.

The problem with this is that you are fundamentally creating a creature that is not human in the strictest sense. We have many examples were Astartes are unable to understand basic human etiquette or humor, even more examples where standard conversation is as alien to them as a xenos tongue. In the process of protecting humanity, the Emperor manufactured something that doesn't fully grasp humanity. Yes they are our defenders of that there is no doubt, but did anyone ever bother to wonder why Chaos always manages to seep in and claim more and more of these warriors?

The answer is simple, the age when an aspirant is selected is a time when morality, ethics and even culture are continually introduced to them. Once you deprive an human being of that and link them to a strict pseudo-culture they will always be unsure of what they truly are. Naturally they will know no fear, but they will also fail to grasp a myriad of balancing human emotions.

The actual biological modification process is truly miraculous, just think of the number of grafts and organs introduced into a still developing system. All these things are designed to make a nearly unstoppable killing machine, be it a secondary heart, the ability to spit acid, even the ability to obtain the memories of the dead from consuming their tissue. In many ways this becomes the most dangerous aspect of the Adeptus Astartes conditioning, not because of the possibility of rejection, although that happens often enough, no it;s the temporal difference this creates between humans and trans-humans.

Astartes are functionally immortal, that means they can and in some cases do live for thousands of years. This again creates a very dangerous difference between a human being and a space marine, once they undergo the augmentations they view baseline humans as "mortals", that word in itself is very dangerous because the basic meaning behind it is that an Astartes is beyond us, more than mortal. While accurate in purely a biological perspective it also grants the idea that baseline human lives rarely matter. This of course varies from chapter to chapter, with extremes going in both directions such as the Vlka Fenryka and the Salamanders to the Iron hands and the Marines Malevolent. We must also consider how baseline humans view Astartes, they are literally seen as the angels of the Emperor, across the Imperium viewed as lords and demi-gods, does it really surprise anyone why this occurs? the answer harkens back to the time of the great crusade and the Horus heresy. We have heard the term transhuman dread thrown around in various heresy novels.

The concept that the human mind was not ready to accept such creatures that seeing them move or act instantly halted our fight or flight responses leaving humans little better than target practice. This can also relate to another idea "Transhuman Awe" by which I mean that humans naturally become completely enraptured by the idea that this giant is here to protect them. From our own cultures we have encountered stories where people feel a sense of awe when dealing with someone who has great gifts or a physical presence that cannot be matched, now amplify that to 7.5 or 8 feet and add on enough armor and weapons to depopulate entire cities in minutes.

The question then becomes why are such thing required. If humanity was truly worthy of inheriting the stars, why did it need to build such warriors. there are several trains of thought that come to mind with this. One is that unmodified humans are simply not truly capable of standing up to what the universe has in store. The other argument is that because we have advanced to a point where we can manufacture such creatures we now have the right to unleash them. I'm sure we can all see the problem with that particular argument, however in terms of propaganda it is a near perfect one to make.

My view is more akin to the former, the galaxy is vast and in truth the threats that constantly emerge can and do annihilate baseline forces. The Adeptus Astartes basic lack of humanity allows them to defend us because most of the weaknesses have been bred out of them. This does not make them perfect it merely makes them extremely viable and efficient killers.

I am certain the Emperor knew there were threats that humans would not be able to comprehend, be it the warp or extra-galactic invaders, we needed the Astartes because of an inherent weakness in our species. We needed monsters to save us from worse monsters. The horror of the situation is humanity put their faith in these bio-weapons never fully realizing that the lack of the basic characteristics that make us human would be the downfall of many.

I like what you're talking about here, and I think it's fun to think about, but I also think you're ignoring some of your own information here.

Yeah many space marines seem inhumanand and merciless, but to use the examples you mentioned, the Salamanders and the Wolves, we can see that personality has more to do with chapter culture than geneseed. For example, Russ wasn't at all compassionate, but his chapter is. In the earliest days of the Salamanders Legion, before they even bore that name, they were as merciless and agressive as the Death Guard or World Eaters, so I'd say that culture matters more than their unique biology.

In ADB's book Armageddon we see Grimaldus, a Black Templar, get a bit freaked out because he gets hugged, but in The Emperor's Gift, we see Bjorn the Fel Handed telling an inquisitor that she's got a fine ass. At any given time a Salamander is just as likely to be reading a bedtime story to his nieces and nephews or shouting out good natured insults in a smithing contest as he is to be burning a heretic or SMITING (my phone's autocorrect insists that SMITING must be in caps) an alien. For ever Marine Malevolent pissing on a chapter surf there's an Ultramarine at city hall helping the local government with city planning. Sure, some marines are emotionless superhuman monsters, but I don't think that represents all of them. Even Grey Knights, who are mind wiped, can retain some of their humanity.

I don't think to be monstrous is the nature of a space marine, and I don't think they're any less human for their modifications. Even normal humans can lose empathy and compassion if constantly exposed to a merciless culture. Josman (talk) 18:59, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

As to what the big E intended, I don't think it's a coincidence that he so heartily approved of the Blood Angels and Emperor's Children being artists and poets. He hoped his marines could BE human, not just protect humans. Josman (talk) 18:59, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

And here we are again[edit]

  • "It's neither informative (beyond the already-obvious "spergy fanboys are bad, m'kay."), nor particularly entertaining. And the fact that some people like a faction and others don't isn't really a part of "gaming culture.".
Let's get a few things clear here: you don't find it entertaining, which is fine. You believe it should be entertaining in a way you feel is entertaining, which is bullshit. Just because you disagree does not mean that you can just delete entire paragraphs of others without consent; not even if you're the oh mighty Forgefather. None of us have that ability.
Also, Space Marine being the focal point of everything 40k, and often being the maypole all other factions must dance around is VERY MUCH a part of the gaming culture. Have you ever been in a discussion with someone about Space Marines? Have you even met people who have different opinions on Space Marines? I can assure you, we're out here. Not that you should think like us; the paragraph about Marine Fanboys just describes them and their impact on the culture in general.
Lastly; what's wrong with Mezmerro's paragraph about the quantity of Marines in universe? That's a totally valid paragraph explaining something extremely viable for the entire setting; and yet you removed it.
You need to hark up some actual arguments besides "I don't agree" (which is viable, but can't stand alone). Just deleting things like that is very explecitely not what we do, unless it's stuff like strikeouts of entire segments. TheWiseDane (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
    • //Just because you disagree does not mean that you can just delete entire paragraphs of others without consent; not even if you're the oh mighty Forgefather. None of us have that ability.// "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." That's site policy, not my words. Anyone and everyone does have that ability, otherwise it wouldn't be a wiki site.
You haven't clearly defined what "gaming culture" is, so I won't bother addressing that any further.
//Have you ever been in a discussion with someone about Space Marines? Have you even met people who have different opinions on Space Marines? I can assure you, we're out here. Not that you should think like us; the paragraph about Marine Fanboys just describes them and their impact on the culture in general.// Non sequitur, what I or anyone else thinks of Space Marines is irrelevant to why the paragraph is bad.
There are several reasons that passage doesn't belong on the page. First and foremost, the page is about Space Marines, not fans of space marines. Other flaws aside, it simply isn't related to the article. My personal opinion never factored into this (and I suspect it isn't near as different from yours as you make it out to be, but that's neither here nor there), but I'm glad you brought opinion up, because that's all this paragraph is. No substance, just a bunch of generalized statements about a group of people. I'm sure you and plenty others would object if I suddenly added two paragraphs to the Tau page saying how every Tau fan is an obnoxious weeaboo that's plays a sci-fi race in a fantasy setting (no, this isn't something I'd post, it's just an example, as are all of the following), or if the Tyranid page said that all 'nid players were ignorant casuals that don't know anything about Sci-Fi outside of the movie Alien. Trying to put personal likes and dislikes into the wiki will only lead to edit wars as the inevitable detractors turn up, or even worse, strike-through wars.--The Forgefather
      • I think you mistake "editting and redistribution" with "removing", here; they are not the same thing. If you flat out delete entire passages, you have to state why or get the get-go from other members. That's the policy; had you changed either paragraph up, but left the content relatively intact, I wouldn't have minded it at all.
Gaming culture was just a catch-all term for the tabletop hobby and the injokes and memes we have, really, and a Space Marine fanboy is very much a reaccuring type of personage in our circles. Only fair to give that a mention, just like Dark Eldar is for either vampire/goth fans or really beardy motherfuckers who hate to win.
On adding a segment on Tau fans; it's literally already there, and has been since the day I joined. If it's a significant part of the setting that, say, Tyranid fans are casuals (which, agreed, they often are), why not add it then? It's about the hobby, it's connected to it, has some real life ressonance as well, and really, that's the kind of inane shit we spread on this site for laughs. I mean, I know you see this wiki as something sorta professional (or so I assume), but as I see it, if at least two people can nod and agree on something written here, and it's about the hobbies, there's no issue.
That said, you still haven't addressed exactly why Mezmerro's segment is bad. It addresses the fact that there's really fucking few Space Marines, a very significant and interesting tidbit of info. It's completely valid, even to your own ideals; why was it removed? By accident, maybe? TheWiseDane (talk) 23:25, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Strikethru Removal: 2016 edition[edit]

I just removed a whopping 68 strikethrus from the page. This is the SECOND greatest number of strikethrus I have ever removed in a single edit. The only page I have ever removed more strikethrus from was the tactics page for Necrons, which had 169 strikethrus. Please fuck off with the strikethrus, and keep them off of the page. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 00:08, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Some of the strikethroughs you removed were actually appropriate though, remember they're fine when they're used for humour, it's not as if something is bad just because it has a strikethrough, even on the tactics pages you can have appropriate strikthroughs, just look at this one from the Space Marine Legion page:
For dealing with MEQ's you've got Volkite Calivers. Heavy weapons may seem odd in a Special weapons squad, but these guns hit 2 points harder than Bolters, with 2 shots at more than 2wice the Bolter's 2-shot range and are FAR cheaper than Volkite Culverins in a Heavy Support squad. If there was a god that his sacred numeration was binary, this would be his cultist's weapons...whoa, wait... All of the above is pretty decent for MEQ's, but then we have the Volkite rule, allowing you to get even more wounds, for 2 5 pts, just like Rotor guns.
I know you really hate them but not all strikethroughs are bad, just the ones that intentionally try to contradict old information because somebody wanted to try and have a discussion on the main page (or they were too lazy to update it properly) are the ones that're bad. -- Triacom (talk) 08:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Baker Marines/ Adeptus Panifex[edit]

They make the finest pastries in the Imperium...and are the guys who make all the free cake during Sanguinala.

Which they also use to lure their enemies into deadly ambushes (Raven Guard style tactics) ;

Weapons of choice : Power Spatulas, Thunder Rolling Pins, Cream Decorator Lascanons and Baking Soda Grenades ;

Their Battle Cry : Heed not the Xenos or Heretic for their cakes are LIES!!! / Let them eat CAKE Brothers ;

Their Flying Fortress Monastery is called The Marble Cake, which they use to bring their wonderful pastries to all corners of the Imperium ;


They usually avoid chapters like the Scary Marines, the Raven Guard and to some extent the Dark Angels (because they have no sense of humor/to dam depressive/don't trust ANYONE);

But they have a fiery rivalry with the Adeptus Orthodontus (guess why???), and recently have been having confrontations with the Vegan Marines ;

Otherwise they have close ties with the Comedy Marines (they supply them with cream pies) and the Blood Angels and their successor chapters (for the free cake during Sanguinala) as well other chapters and the Imperium at large who love therm and their pastries ;


Their symbol is a cherry cupcake ;

Their Master Chef (chapter master) is called Pierre Hermé


Ranks:


Master Chef

Pie Marshal

Cake Captain

Baking Brother

Cookie Scouts


Grocer (Apothecary)

Maitre D’ (Chaplin)

??? (Tech Marine)

??? (Librarian)


1st company/Terminator Company : Muffin Company

2nd company/Veteran Company  : Croissant Company

3rd company/Librarian Company  : Sweetroll Company

Master Chef's Honor Guard  : Brioche Guard


Special Characters


Master Chef Pierre Hermé

Pie Marshal of the Muffin Company Blueberius Bolum

Cake Captain Magnus Biscoti of the 1st Madeleine Brigade : Croissant Company


and that's all i got...please help...i would love to see more suggestions to help me finish this chapter.

-This is the best chapter that I've ever seen. Dunno how to start a new line or anything, but I'm not the op

Nothing about the roles within a Chapter[edit]

Going through the page I realized there's no real overview of what the various roles and ranks within a Chapter are. Most of that is located on the Codex Astartes page. I can agree with that we should not copy it 1:1, but I do think that there should be at least some kind of mention on here about the various positions that exist. Thoughts on this? - Biggus Berrus (talk) 10:25, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't see much point. There's such an enormous variety of roles and ranks within the different chapters that if you wanted to list them all, the section would be a mile long. Or, alternatively, we can just do what we've been doing, and keep the ranks on their own chapter's page. The Codex page has the codex ranks, and the unique ranks within each chapter are mentioned on their respective pages. I don't think it's necessary, but if you really want to you certainly can. Josman (talk) 16:52, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

On the origin of the word 'Astartes'[edit]

Are we sure that GW derived this term from, as this article currently puts it, 'the Greek name for the Mesopotamian goddess of war, Ishtar'? I had always thought that it was derived from 'hastati'--which, to quote Wikipedia, were 'a class of infantry employed in the armies of the early Roman Republic'. I had assumed that 'astartes' was supposed to be something of a corruption of the word 'hastati', as it's the high gothic term for the space marines, and high gothic is at least supposed to be some sort of Latin. Granted, space marines are considered a highly elite force, whereas the hastati were more-or-less run-of-the-mill soldiers, but this still seems a like a far less obscure origin than the one posited by this article, as of now. Not that it couldn't be both, mind, but I don't know.

P.S. I'm afraid that I'm not aware of any official GW or GW-officiated source that clearly states where the word comes from, but I'm sure there's something out there, to that end--I just haven't found it yet. Polytope (talk) 06:09, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

i dont like Marines.[edit]

marines are practically unkillable golden boys in GW.why is it that the marines recieve all the love and praise of any faction and recieve Constant, Never ending Ridiculous support all of the time, constantly. never ending space marine support. now i get space marines are supposed to be a Major race, as are orks eldar and Tyranids. but what about those nids? are they a major race? in all seriousness? no, no they fucking arent. Tyranids are barely supported and/or even recognised. they are consistently undersupported and underloved. look at that the pages upon pages upon pages To the power of 10x40 pages of Space marine, as well as ork or eldar related things, the countless eldar support, the countless ork support. but what about us nid players? nobody except its players actually gives a fuck about this faction (including GW doesnt care), if a Certain man or any number of you marine players had the power too, you would literally remove the faction all together from the game because you think "they are overpowered" or "we dont like them", why dont you take a look at yourself, with your regiment of tanks, space marines and primarch etc, and then look back at me, with my couple tyranid warriors, termagaunts, genestealers and a Swarmlord. you people are about as giant assholes as that emperor you worship.


in short, i don't like you, and we tyranid players, who have barely anything in the first place, cant have nice things.

--Nicol bolas (talk) 04:34, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Tell someone who cares, whiner. --Newerfag (talk) 13:56, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Marines are the most popular because they make the most money, and because the authors like them the most (for the most part). Sorry but that's really the only explanation there is. There is good news however, because sometimes GW wants to sell another faction, so they'll release a ridiculously bad piece of shit like Mont'ka (where the authors definitely don't like the Marines, somehow the Tau apparently beat 200 assault marines in what appears to be a fistfight) or you'll get really shitty series like The Beast Arises where nothing makes any sense at all and everything would've ended in the first book if the authors hadn't all had lobotomies. -- Triacom (talk) 07:00, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

This is a discussion session. For discussion. Did you have something to discuss, or is it literally just a complaint? Josman (talk) 20:29, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Halo[edit]

Why is there a Halo quote here? (218.215.26.50 17:08, 22 August 2018 (UTC))

I put it here. There is much in common between the Spartan II project and the creation of the Space Marines: they are "more" than human, their only purpose is to defend Hearth/Terra and its colonies/empire, they are costly to create, etc. With this quote, I wanted to summarize what it meant to be the last wall between us and them. However, I am still a newfag here. So feel free to undo this change if you think it is off topic.--Gilten (talk) 07:31, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

There's no need for a billion quotes, especially one that is taken from vydiah that have nothing in common outside of similar inspirations

So I apologize. Have a good day.--Gilten (talk) 08:25, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Name[edit]

In latin, at least, if reality didn't shift it again, "Astartes" means "fast". So, "Adeptus Astartes" doesn't mean star adepts or adepts of fuckery, but it means "Fast Adepts", which is fitting, as in the lore the SM are described as super-fast, and their warfare tactics are fast AF too.

Do we really need a power level comparison for Space Marines?[edit]

I fail to see why we need a paragraph ranking strength among the Imperium's forces in the Space Marine page, especially when a number of those have niche uses (in older lore for example, 100 Eversors killed nearly 1000 Marines, doesn't mean they'd do as well in regular warfare) not to mention the Marine Chapters themselves vary a lot in what they do, as do the assassins. Comparing them in such a way serves no purpose since it covers nothing new, and also looks pretty ugly. -- Triacom (talk) 07:00, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, it looks god awful. Even when terms of raw physical strength are applied to individual members, a Thunder Warrior likely beats out an Astartes, a Sister of Battle is a plain unaugmented human in a set of power armour, so in what way are they stronger than a Catachan? Separating Grey Knights from other Astartes is stupid because they are the same thing, so if we're talking about training and tactics, how does an Ogryn rate superior to a regular Guardsman? and by rights Custodes should beat everything with their "prepare for anything" training regimen. Even "physical strength" can have varying different meanings, as having huge muscles and lots of lifting/pressing power doesn't necessarily translate to explosive force when striking, ask any martial artist or weightlifter. In context, A Thunder Warrior might be able to crush the head of an Ogryn with his bare hands, but an Assassin might be able to punch a hole in him with his fingertips.
Not to mention all of the ancillary augmentations that particular groups have, since we know that Astartes have some organs that Thunder Warriors do not have (such as the Betchers Gland, Secondary Heart and Black Carapace, but potentially others related to void warfare and toxic environments) and we have no idea of the full capabilities of the Custodes or Assassins under different conditions, so the context can get hazy on who-beats-who depending on where the fight takes place, such as in outer space, on open fields, or in a fighting pit. It's not particularly helpful to compare them in so simple a way. --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 07:31, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
If the power levels really have to be compared, it doesn't make sense to do it on an individual level. A single guardsman would be useless to the Imperial war machine, but a single Custodian or Assassin might find a use, even if an Ogryn could match them in a one-on-one brawl. On the strategic level, Imperial Guard typically get deployed in regiments, Space Marines typically get deployed as companies, Ogryns typically get deployed as auxiliaries, Custodians typically get deployed as squads while Assassins typically get deployed individually. If we're talking raw usefulness to the Imperium in a military sense, then that is probably the better metric of how much you expect the troops to perform and what you think they are capable of. --Dark Angel 2020 (talk) 08:09, 12 December 2018 (UTC)