Talk:Standard Template Construct
What the fuck are the Iron men? I'm guessing Necrons, or older-than-the-fucking-oldest Super-death-robots of the Dark Age of Technology that the mechanicus had kill like two roosters in a cockfight just so that they could take Mars.
From what I can read, I'd guess the Iron Men are a cross between Skynet and the robots from I, Robot. They were NOT necron, because the Iron Men were a man-made thing...or as man-made as an STC can get. -FtT
- The Iron Men were GW ripping off Dune, basically. Retcon, before that there was a Legio Cybernetica and even as late as Epic there were Imperial Robots. The Mechanicus has become progressively more grimdark over the years from "only knows how STC stuff works and worships technology (but other people don't)" to "worships an evil sleeping God and everything is fucking fucked." Tim 13:02, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
- Anybody else starting to get a bit jaded by the all the hamfisted grimdarkiness? The "evil sleeping god worship" thing didn't even make me blink. I actually rolled my eyes. Not at you, Tim, but at the realization that that's pretty much the truth to what's happening. I'm not even fazed by it anymore. Anyone else starting to get this way? Or already at that point? Creed of Heresy (talk) 12:32, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Pretty much. STC for super-powerful new titan? Corrupted by Chaos. STC for a cure-all? Stolen by Dark Eldar. Nothing good ever comes out of the Imperium (unless it has a model that GW can sell...but that's a different problem entirely). That's why I like Ciaphas Cain (and lots of others do, too -- there is a reason that the Cain novels are a consistent entry in "recommended Black Library book" threads; and while Cain is the only really "funny" series, the other BL authors also keep the grimdark under control in their books) and the Reasonable Marines. --Not LongPoster Again (talk) 22:37, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Except that's not true
There are hundreds of worlds in the Imperium that have anything from stone age to steam age technology. Now I *might* accept a steam engineer rigidly following ancient blueprints, but the stone age napper, or ironage blacksmith? They won't even understand the concept of an STC. They'll experiment and improve by trial and error just like we do today. Eventually they'll advance to the point of nuclear and computer age - and why the hell would they simply stop? Where are the Imperial worlds that are stuck at the 22nd, 23rd, or 29&1/2th centuary level of technology? The Mechanicus has had ten thousand years, and significant chuck of the resources of a million fluffing worlds at their disposal. They have been unable to duplicated the successes of three comparatively small continents on one insignificant blue green planet. They might be doing the best they can imagine, but that doesn't mean that they are doing anywhere close to the absolute best that could be done. --Anonymous
- Don't try to apply real anthropology to a fantasy story; it just gives you a headache and makes the neckbeards upset. The Imperium of Man is a human diaspora across an expanse that requires years of travel to get from one end to the other, yet they haven't balkanised into a bajillion smaller empires. There's hundreds of thousands of biomes, over the course of millenia, and yet they maintain a cultural homogeny. This sort of developmentally retarded shit is required for the permanent grimdark necessary for endless skirmish warfare games on the tabletops of Games Designer Workshop stores that sell paints. --NotBrandX 04:00, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Oh, But It Is
I could explain how this whole dilema works. The Imperium and Mechanicus claimed worlds and systems during the Great Crusades. Previously, the Mechanicus were developing their cult on the irradiated, blasted-out, newly-red Mars. They valued the STCs above all else because they had a bajilion of them and they protected (through understanding) the Mechainucus through centuries of living either in broken artifical hab-caverns, or wandering the surface from bunker to bunker. Now when the Emperor came he was all: "Cool, alright, you guys do your thing, and I'll make sure you know not to balls anything important up." Well, they wandered all over the galaxy claiming worlds. What they found was, yes, an enourmous diversity of worlds, from savage to technologically identical to the Dark Age of Technology. Now when they found these worlds, they looked for two things in particular: STCs and Chaos taint. Anything that had Chaos taint was to be purged (ultimately whether or not the good outweighted the taint). So, as they went they would either claim, or purge then claim. High technology would be purged, marvelous miracles were destroyed, and while the Emperor wasn't looking, the Mechanicus mistook some things for being possessed of Chaos, and purged it too. Now all this purging and collecting on a myriad of planets (mostly post-apocalypic ones), combined with what would ammount to milenia of disorganized IT guys piling their own personal organization techniques into huge databases, left archives somewhat incomplete. Plus, the whole religion thing screwed up logic and common sence. So ultimately, anything that didn't conform to their standards was purged, or squirreled away to the XBAWKS HUEG archives on Terra or Mars. But as long as the Emperor was there to peek over their shoulders, everything was great.
BUT THEN, the Horus Heresy left old Empy on a huge golden toilet that he never fully explained the workings of. This left the Mechanicus to their own devices for a while. This was not generally considered a smart move on Horus' part, because the Mechanicus still were working in their "occulty" phase, which made operating all of their jumbled information and schitzo-tech a little hard to do. They mostly got it right (see every mechanicus implant ever, Warp Drives, Nova Cannons, Cortexs) but some things they really screwed up. So now, the Mechanicus spends its free time sifting through databases of old reports of purgings, evil technology, and a bunch of other stuff that frightens them terribly. This, plus their strict RELIGION of anti-progress, depenancy on copying and not creating, and their perpetual fear of a second Men of Iron/Steel/Stone/whatever uprising. This fear is darn-near universally pervasive across every Forge World, the only centers of techology in the Imperium because the Mechanicus hoard it all to themselves and won't let anybody else come within 50 feet of it, much less figure out how it really works. Obviously they undersand ground vehicles and laser physics, but the hover pannels on Land Speeders get them confused. So, with this fear causing the Mechaicus to crack down on new stuff, and the fact their fleets always sail to new planets in search of the high-tech stuff and STCs they lost, they pretty much direct their bewildered attention to wherever the highest-tech places are, then go their and muck it up, or steal it and lose it. There you go. --FlintTD 04:31, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Dark Eldar bit
Can someone please enlighten me to where it actually says the STC has been lost (by the DE)? I have my codex right in front of me, and I'm not seeing it. I'll leave it for now (but I'll clean the story up a bit as well). --CrazyThang
Pg. 16 The Panacaea War
The Imperium isn't grim because things suck by choice and could be fine if a sensible person came along. That sensible person wouldn't survive fifty seconds of the reality. The Imperium is grim because every single shit decision, every single sacrifice, every single death, every single man, woman, and child suffering a shit life in the worst conditions imaginable, is the absolute best that can be done. It is a study of the worst happening to everyone and what part of your humanity must be sacrificed today just to stand a chance of survival, and all it asks is whether or not it would have perhaps been better to die.
I'm going to have to call bull on this. The reason the Imperium is so dark is not because it's the only possible way, it's because they're too fucking paranoid to be reasonable. They could very much attempt to make trades with Tau and Eldar for technologies and aid. You can not tell me the Imperials wouldn't benefit from the Imperial Guard being equipped with Pulse Rifles instead of Lasguns. There's also the fact that, even though the Imperium is still incredibly grim and dark, they still have entire worlds that are paradises. They have the resources to build up massive, luxurious planets and systems for the higher up in the social ladder, they could take the resources that it'd require to set up a world or two devoted to nothing but researching new, fresh, clean technology that doesn't murder you. It's not often touched upon, but there's evidence that the entire Imperium is not under attack everywhere at all times, and they sure as hell aren't totally on the defensive, they spend stupid amounts of resources going out of their way to murder xenos that quite reasonably could have been ignored or even fostered into allies.
The reason that the Imperium is shit is because they are thoroughly indoctrinated into hating everything that isn't like them, to keep things exactly the way they are, to shun new knowledge. The reason a sensible person wouldn't survive isn't because he'd get killed from some external force, it's because he'd be murdered by other people for the heresy of suggesting that the Imperium pull their heads out of their asses long enough to actually start moving out of where they are. --188.8.131.52 05:44, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
- They tried that in the Dark Age of Technology. It didn't work. Also,
- > responding to an ancient copypasta
- > ISHYGDDT
- Exactly. It appears that you don't realize that there's a reason why they're so distrstful of xenos- one wants to assimilate them into their empire and the other is unpredictable and prone to betraying you. And they don't even HAVE a way to research things any longer- the Men of Iron saw to that quite nicely.--Newerfag (talk) 07:27, 11 December 2013 (UTC)