Talk:The End Times

Green Knight & Abhorash

http://occultdetectives.tumblr.com/post/158809308517/i-want-to-know-what-happened-to-one-of-the

So, I guess Josh's answer isn't cannon?

Nagash

Thanks for the hard work on this page, Thannak. I keep forgetting to slip in links where appropriate (like the Green Knight one) and appreciate you tidying that up quite a bit.

Who is this who calls me a liar about the Fay Enchantress becoming a vampire? If you want I'll provide screen caps showing you that you're wrong.

• ‘Morgiana, my dear,’ said Mannfred, riding up close on the back of his undead steed. He held a giant, flesh-bound grimoire, still covered in a thick layer of dust. ‘Why not join the celebrations? You certainly deserve it, having kept my latest investment alive, if not well. The old man still has enough life left for my purposes. And my compliments on having put up with these godly fools for so long in your… how shall I put this…’ the vampire savoured his own wit for a moment like a fine wine, ‘unladylike condition.’ Von Carstein made a flicking motion with his hand. The bone cage’s spars opened wide with a grinding creak, and the Bretonnian woman’s manacles fell open into the corpse-mulch. She deftly dropped down out of its rear and in one smooth movement stepped up to Russet, biting down hard into the nature-priest’s neck. Russet screamed and thrashed, but Morgiana held on tight, her eyes wide with dark delight. The nature-priest struggled on for a moment, twitched, and fell still. The Bretonnian woman took a silk kerchief from her ruined finery and dabbed at the blood trickling from her mouth, smiling at Mordecaul like a predatory cat. The young priest spotted elongated fangs amongst her perfect white teeth. She held a finger to her lips, crimson sparks dancing in her eyes. With a jolt, Mordecaul remembered the stories of a telepathic bond between a vampire and its kin, and realised she had likely been passing their plans to her von Carstein master all along. ("The Bone Cage", Josh Reynolds)

• Two thing's I'd like to bring up about this, as far as the books are concerned, if it didn't happen in one of The End Times books then it didn't happen. There's a lot of differences between The Return of Nagash, and the first book, as well as The Fall of Altdorf and The Glottkin, so using them as a source isn't a good idea because as far as The End Times cares she wasn't a vampire at all (and if I remember right she wasn't a vampire in Return of Nagash either). Secondly that was written by Phil Kelly, not Josh Reynolds. - Triacom

• It's worth mentioning both honestly. If there's a contradiction in fluff, it should be pointed out while including both variations of the story along with perhaps a joke ribbing at Games Workshop. Just my take on it. --Thannak (talk) 07:54, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

It is mentioned in Return of Nagash. Page 131 it's first mentioned. As for End Times: Nagash it isn't mentioned at all.

So when did Nagash kill/drain Morr? Is this from people thinking that Usirian and Morr are one and the same? And if they are the same god, does the battle for Altdorf take place before Usirian is consumed by Nagash?

• In the section summing up events that occurred in the empire it says that Morr's powers were stolen by Nagash, in End Times: Glottkin during the battle for Altdorf it mentions certain undead being easier to summon for Vlad simply because their bodies had not been buried under Morr's sigils but Sigmar's on page 102 (now that I look at it it also mentions Vlad raising undead buried in unconsecrated graves)

• Likewise pg118 states that Vlad was only able to raise the palace dead buried in Morr's because of geheimnisnacht --Ksatnodesaelp (talk)

Nagash is never mentioned to have drained Morr or directly have killed Morr, that's from people assuming they are the same, just as they assumed The Nameless and Drachenfels are the same and therefore everything surrounding Drachenfels is canonical now. Nagash stole Morr's powers not by directly taking them but by binding the Wind of Death to Sylvania, which makes it so that all of the dead go there as opposed to Morr. -- Triacom (talk) 14:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

That settles Morr in my mind at least, from what little I know of Drachenfels he seems to match up with The Nameless, I get that the Drachenfels is just an assumption but is there really any evidence to the contrary? -- Ksatnodesaelp (talk) 06:56, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

There isn't much evidence to the contrary, but there's not a lot of evidence for it either, if he is Drachenfels then they've changed several things with him so it's ridiculous to assume everything involving him is canonical as I don't remember Drachenfels being really lazy as well as being able to mind control hundreds of people at a time for example. -- Triacom (talk) 15:14, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Lileath's plan for the new human pantheon

So, she chose Grail Knights and Damsels to be the new Human Gods of her new world. But how can former Grail Knights/Damsels, who are some what similar in both backgrounds (nobility) and personality (due to their devotion) can represent every facet of human life - death, health, love, knowledge, etc. The gods of the Old World are very different from each other because of the roles that they represent. -- Fireminer (talk) 21:24, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

She didn't plan for them to be the new pantheon, she planned for them to guard the world and that was about it. -- Triacom (talk) 18:22, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! But then does it mean that there will be no human, just elves and their gods in her new world? -- Fireminer (talk) 21:24, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, but she's an elf, if there's one thing they're known for it's fucking over everyone who isn't an elf (just look at what the Wood Elves did to Bretonnians). -- Triacom (talk) 12:03, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

Games Workshop's game plan

While it is good that Games Workshop have progressed the storyline, this could be a case of Games Workshop trying to practice 'Torch the Franchise and Run'. Could this be case?

Given the unsettling rumors going around, they're possibly trying to reinvent Warhammer Fantasy to make it easier to sell to someone else. They are going to retool the armies into the following groups:

• Empire with some Dwarfs and Ogres.
• Elves (mix of all, but less units in total).
• Chaos (mostly Warriors and Daemons).
• Undead (run-of-the-mill Undead, so no Khemri stuff).
• Orcs and Goblins (mostly the same).
• Skaven (mostly the same).

Playing pure Dwarfs? Fuck you. Ogres? Fuck you. Lizardmen? Fuck you. Bretonnia? Dark Elves? High Elves? Wood Elves? Tomb Kings? Beastmen? Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you! Spend thousands of dollars and possible decades on your army? Too bad, you can no longer use it. So go buy a new one! Fuck you and have a nice day. - Biggus Berrus (talk) 15:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

• Further, models with round bases have already been spotted in some pictures, meaning months of rebasing fun ahead for those who wish to continue playing. Welcome to Warhammer 40k: Fantasy. - Redmaw
• Don't forget bubbles, bubbles everywhere. You didn't want them in your precious Finecast models? Fuck you, they're in the universe. Eat our shit. The Bubblehammer universe is all but confirmed by the Lizardmen fluff in the End Times:Thanquol fluff book and the novel, with the Slann saving their people by flinging them into the void in magic reality bubbles. There's always Oldhammer: 8th Edition.

"Thanks for the money, cockfags!" -GW, after Archaon drops

They shouldn't count their chickens before they hatched I know I don't Ksatnodesaelp (talk) 09:43, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

When I first posted this article, it was a nasty suspicion. I was concerned Games Workshop was writing the End Times as a "be careful what you wish for" style slap in the face to the people who want the storyline continued, to discontinue Fantasy (saving money from not making any more stories, characters, armybooks or new models) and, as the page on Tv Tropes says, (by destroying their setting and killing everybody) it's the author equivalent of breaking your toys so no one else can play with them (destroying their setting and killing everyone in it so other writers can't use it if Games Workshop goes down). I'm worried I may have been right from the beginning. Flufflion (talk) 09:43, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

I played GW stuff as a teenager to early adulthood, haven't played a game for maybe 10 years, but vaguely read novels still from the library until I grew tired of the shit writing which to me was unsatisfying due to poor/inexpert use of language and stupid plot holes, contradictions within a single novel etc. laziness. I enjoy all kinds of books from highbrow to lee child, but I felt the lack of quality with black library stuff. Anyway, I just wanted to make a point that this company have been money grubbing cunts for over 15 years. Not simply the price of their products and other stuff - it was the planned obsolesence that once I was aware of really irked me. So I found out their game plan 15 yrs ago from an independent non gw store owner which was to release a new major game every 6 months, and then drop it within a few years regardless of how well the community liked it, obviously so they could make up a new game and resell their shit. Examples such as necromunda, mordheim, batty gothic etc etc etc. Kind of disgusted me. I learned about these new developments by accident and spent the last 8 hours laughing at this website. Fun times, thanks guys (no girls allowed). I'm shocked and appalled by their faggatronics, and especially how ineptly it was done. And AoS looks dire. I will never give money to these cunt faced shit eaters again and will try to convince my old friends to drop support too. The final straw for me was the news of their one man store policy, since their shops were once communities in their own rights and as a young teen I have fond memories spending weekends in them. I'm laughing at the stupidity of these cunts, because maybe short term it saves £, but long term it will - very likely & hopefully - destroy them. They don't know their own business strength which was the community and so fucking dumb to drop warhammer just when hundreds of thousands are going to be introduced to the epic battles of total war (another company that went down the shitter. I shit on all these fuckers and hope their company crumbles into dust.

• The company is actually doing better than last year (with WHFB), how does the butthurt feel?
  • Who cares, its a shit company for wankers (#shitcompanyforwankers). None of those who were butthurt then give a fuck anymore now. --Thannak (talk) 02:16, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
    • Dakkadakka says otherwise, but let's be honest it got better so there's that too. Still find hilarious seeing people overreact (and it's overreacting, no matter how loved was a setting, it's death should trigger melancholy at best not this level of anger, it's just not healthy).

Jan

She then shacks up with the former king of Bretonnia (love CAN bloom, but only in the face of death) and prepares to rip Slaanesh's throat out on the way down...

What? Is this from Thanquol? -- 108.61.101.138 13:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Glottkin I believe. --Thannak (talk) 17:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Khaine p.7 says that Ladrielle aka the Lady of the Lake is "a guise taken by Lileath". Lileath is the "beloved of Araloth", some minor Wood Elf hero introduced in 8th. Lileath has been pregnant with Araloth's child for most of the duration of the book. She's been jumping from the Old World to Ulthuan between the seasons of 2514-2525, presumably through the use of the world roots. When Gilles returned, Lileath was with the Vampire Elf woman from Tiranoc, the new Elven Goddess of the Dead. So unless she's two people at once, two places at once, it's simply not possible.

Can you give me the quote from Glottkin. -- Yu-gi-oh ! (talk) 07:39, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

N.B Love can Bloom is 120% haram, a Elven God shacking up with a dead barbarian chef is triple heresy. Expect butthurt. -- Yu-gi-oh ! (talk) 07:39, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

fifth book - Archaon

I have nice source - [1] but i currently dont have much time to rewrite what can be seen from there and it is blurry as hell. Do your best!

Neferata's Love?

In the section on Undead Legions one point says "Neferata, seeing a massive wall of darkness destroying the land, is told by Arkhan to flee while she still has the chance while he attempts to buy her time. Continuing the romance plot established in her solo novel (which retconned old lore), she kissed his teeth and grabbed the unconscious body of Isabella then mounted her Abyssal then flew for Sylvania while weeping for the only being she ever loved." Who was this one being she loved? Arkhan? Vashanesh? Isabella? Khalida?

• Since it comes right after she kissed Arkhan, it's him. --Thannak (talk) 14:13, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

It sounds very likey; I find it hard to reconcile since Neferata still seems to dislike men in the lore, would you or someone be able to provide a screen cap from the book where this moment happens?

ETK

, this image appears in ETK but it's originally from the High Elf 8th edition army book. The 'epic' Khaine graphic is this one. -- Yu-gi-oh ! (talk) 23:50, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Dis Shiz

Removed:

• As the disheartened Bretonnians depart, Breton himself stands with Vlad von Carstein and Abhorash alongside the bulk of their Bloodlines for the final battle against Chaos. Vlad reveals he really is Vashanesh, Neferata's husband, as he says that "Abhorash was right all along".

Reason:

92.13.19.212 "Never happens. Josh Reynolds himself says this is wrong. He wrote End Times. It's not in any of the Black Library End Time books either. Provide a source, or this is fanfiction. Stop deleting this comment just because you want it to be right. Say where it's mentioned. "

GW answer to years of low sales?

Yes, I think this is it, GW grew tired of the whole setting because it wasn't selling good enough, also, I suspect this was a way of making clear that they will dont give crap about "tradition" whenever they feel they need to make a change to sell more, also I suspect they will try to lure Warcraft/DotA/LoL fans with the coming new setting(if there is one), we still haven't seen anything but since 40k already covers up the grimdark department, they may definitely try to pull the noble-bright over the new edition. --McNash (talk) 00:08, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Age of Sigmar

Should have a new page yet? We now have the images of the "miniatures" they're adding.

Pet race?

If the Empire is Geedubs' pet race, then why are the fucking knife ears present in everybody's story?

The Holy Knight and the dark knight?

who is he? like I search on web and turns out holy knight was this famous questing knight but turned into vampire by the red duke which then rename himself to the dark knight. This create a fuck ton of conflict and confusion. Like in the bretonnia butchered section, there's this holy knight who was slained by Krell and brought to undead by Kemmler. Then in the Vampire (re)death section, there's this dark knight & banshee who was reduced to ashes by Arkhan the black. Seriously, who edited this? are these two knights the same person and who the fuck is that banshee? am I missing something?--TheSpoilerHeretic (talk) 23:09, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

It's been a bit since I read the End Times, however ever since 8th edition royally fucked the lore it's a little hard to keep everything straight (which really sucks since up to 7th edition it was actually quite easy). For example, Kemmler in the original lore attacks La Maisontaal Abbey where he is betrayed by the Skaven and eventually beaten by Duke Tancred and his forces. 4 years later he had a rematch with Tancred where he killed him, resurrected his corpse as a zombie and sent it off to the king to taunt him. Now in the End Times, without warning Tancred is suddenly alive again, the battle of Maisontaal might or might not have happened (and the stuff following it definitely didn't happen) and Kemmler needs to fight and kill him again, with Krell's help this time. Now as for the holy knight, he was killed by the Red Duke and resurrected as a vampire before being killed for good by another knight later, but then with the End Times he's sort of back, in that he might or might not be the same person and the dark knight might be somebody else entirely. -- Triacom (talk) 10:29, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply to summed up the confusion, even though it is still confusing as fuck whether the holy knight was the same person or not. But still, was there any mention of the banshee?--TheSpoilerHeretic (talk) 07:59, 5 February 2018 (UTC)