Talk:The War of The Beast

From 1d4chan

This is so confusingly written I could barely understand it by the end. Or maybe my confusion was a side effect of the total fuckup "The war of the Beast" makes of the 40k canon. Seriously... Are these actual books? Who wrote them? They sound like complete arse.

Naw, they're cool.

This series fucking sucks. The books had good potential but just a couple books in things spiral out of control and the whole thing becomes just a giant steaming pile of shit that deserves to be derided from start to finish. Nothing in this book was worth a damn, and even things that should have been major gamechangers, like learning that Vulcan was alive and finding him again, have no effect because he does fucking nothing and just sits in a room until they arrive at where the beast is so that they could Worf him. How do the Salamanders react to the rediscovery and subsequent loss of their Primarch? I've got no fucking clue because this series didn't give a shit to explore that idea fully. That's also only the most minor of fuckups in this series of fuckups, and hopefully the series as a whole just fades from memory. -- Triacom (talk) 03:33, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
This series does not suck. It may have a few glaring holes in it, such as that the books are too short, the whole stuff with the Iron Warriors is completely pointless, and that because of multiple authors writing the series the whole thing becomes disjointed. However, the scenes with the High lords are excellent, and the way that Vulkan and Koorland’s personalities are so clearly changed by their personal losses strikes a chord. Make no mistake, I’m not saying that these books are even good, but they are not ‘a steaming pile of shit’. Personally, I hope that they don’t fade from memory, because then they can serve as a reminder to GW of how to not write a series if they do decide to do something like this again. -- Crumbles (talk) 10:30 26 October 2017 (UTC)
HAH! The scenes with the High Lords are retarded, as are they. The Ecclesiarch wants to worship the Orks? The Fabricator General wants to take and study Ork super tech? The fucking scene with the Ork diplomat? All of this is stupid and should've been scrapped the second it came into the writer's heads, let alone the be penned down on the first draft (I say first because I assume there were others, though judging by the quality there probably wasn't). Half of the scenes in this book are so completely and utterly against the core nature of everyone that it cannot possibly begin to make sense, it would be as if there was a series where all of a sudden all four Chaos gods were Altruists and decided to make everything Noblebright, so long as they had everyone else's permission of course. Alternatively, if the Eldar all of a sudden became really open to other species and cultures and created this universe's version of the Galactic Federation with everybody, including the Orks and Tyranids deciding that fighting is stupid and pointless when they can all live peacefully. As for the Iron Warriors, people threw a bitchfit when the Necrons and Blood Angels temporarily worked together to fight the Tyranids, and that was a very temporary thing where afterwards the Necrons left (since they only arrived to fight the 'Nids in the first place). The Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists (even/especially their successors) however would never, ever settle for anything less than the total destruction of the other, especially since this is relatively soon after the Iron Cage incident. Having the Fists not only help, but befriend and defend the Iron Warriors is completely indefensible (especially with the circumstances they give), as is the fact that they brought Vulkan back and gave him no impact on anything. An entire book could be written on how the Salamanders reacted to his return and what they were doing at the time (you could do the same to the Imperium at large) but the writers sidestep this by having him fuck off to a room until they need him to get killed to show how scary the villain is. That's not good writing, that's garbage a fanfic writer should be getting shit for, not professionals that expect me to pay money to read their bullshit solution of having the Sisters of Silence perform a spell to kill all the Orks (that's not possible by any stretch of the imagination and it fucks up completely what the Sisters are, that's like making a single Guardsman go into the Warp and stab Khorne to death). This shit should be derided for the trash that it is and the best thing that could come of it is if GW forgets it ever existed. -- Triacom (talk) 11:09, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Did it ever get into your head that the High Lords are supposed to appear retarded? The driving point behind the Beheading is that the Imperium would have won the war much faster if it had had better leadership. The Ecclesiarch only wants to worship the works because Vangorich is poisoning him out of his mind, and he wants someone to do something about it-if you look deeper into the books, Mesring's logic is that if the emperor won't help the leader of his 'cult', then he needs to find someone who will help him out of his predicament. Also, it is quite possible that he was simply driven mad by the presence of the attack moon above Terra - Koorland and Thane almost suffered the same fate at the beginning of Watchers in Death because of that. As for your point about the Mechanicus, is it so unlike them to want to study xenos tech? In 40k, they are fascinated by the Tau technology, and are willing to deploy Titan legions, Knight houses and uncountable numbers of Skitarii just to claim a world with decent resources - what do you think they would do if a race that was for millennia inferior in every technological way to humanity, and dubbed 'savages' suddenly had the ability to teleport planets, utilise gravity itself in a weapon and display tactics? If you actually think about it, their response is completely in keeping with their characterisation in 40k. The ork diplomat represents how far the Orks as a race have developed in a short time under the Beast, preparing a society for their would-be empire. The ORKS, a feral race, with fucking POLITICIANS. Somehow, I don't think you're catching on to the magnitude of what is inferred in this series. We already know that Eldrad Ulthran has tried to communicate with the Emperor before, on the brink of a galaxy-wide catastrophe (FYI, that was the HH), so why wouldn't he try it again on the brink of another, especially if the greenskin rule of the galaxy would harm the Eldar? It is said many times in various 40k lore that Eldrad plays the other races of the galaxy like puppets on his string, sacrificing millions of xenos lives for just a few Eldar, which could well be what he was doing then. However, as a Salamanders ultra-fan, I am forced to agree with you on the points about Vulkan. I thought THFV was a decent book, but book 8 is utter crap. The mere presence of a Primarch would spell doom for any opponent, yet somehow, he's overcome by an ork engineer with a lever. It's even hinted in WID that Vulkan knew about the ork's pyschic weakness, so why the fuck didn't he tell Koorland? Or, better yet, send a fucking message to the SoS during the months in transit to Ullanor where he does nothing but mope around in his room like a sullen teenager! As for the Sisters' 'spell', you are half-correct. Their null-fields would have that effect on the wierdboy, and it would also be likely that, upon the removal of their presence, the psychic feedback from the billions of orks around it would blow its head off, but nowhere in any 40k lore does it say that the death of a pysker could wipe out an entire planet subjectively (well, maybe Magnus, but that's another matter). And somehow the imperials survive! There is deeper meaning in this series, deeper meaning that it looks like you missed. Read between the lines a bit - you'd be surprised by what you'll find. Crumbles (talk) 16:03, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I get that they're supposed to appear retarded, which is one of the main issues with the series. Despite the High Lords' problems, they're supposed to still be the best at their jobs and basically embody the best and worst elements of who they represent. Having them appear like this is like having a fully geared up Primarch lose a fistfight to a guardsman (with the explanation being that the guardsman is a good fighter) or having the Emperor suddenly embrace religion during the Great Crusade. It's simply poor writing to try and make Vangorich look like he was in the right with The Beheading which also contradicts/retcons all other previous lore on the event. "As for your point about the Mechanicus, is it so unlike them to want to study xenos tech?" YES! I cannot put this big enough or bold enough, but the answer is and always should be yes. They are not fascinated by Tau tech, that was only in Mont'ka (an offensively shitty story where the Tau are retconned into being early-stage Dark Eldar) whereas in all previous books they hated Tau/all Xenos tech so much (mainly for being soulless as Tau tech doesn't have Machine Spirits) that they were constantly petitioning the Imperium for the Tau's complete and utter destruction. The only dealings they ever had with the Tau in all previous books was to kidnap and dissect them to figure out how to kill them better since one of the biggest principles behind their cult is that all technology without machine spirits should be completely and utterly eradicated along with the creators of such tech, with anyone who says otherwise being declared a heretek. what do you think they would do if a race that was for millennia inferior in every technological way to humanity, and dubbed 'savages' suddenly had the ability to teleport planets, utilise gravity itself in a weapon and display tactics? I think that they wouldn't suddenly all become hereteks, and instead they'd work on figuring out ways to kill the Orks as well as dissect them to learn how this happened. their response is completely in keeping with their characterisation in 40k. I'm sorry Crumbles, but you clearly have read very little 40k material if this is what you believe. The Ork diplomat also cannot be defended, plain and simple. In their own Codices it's outright stated that the Orks are wired to hate and kill any other Ork/Klan who act like how they do in the Beast Arises (look up Da Big Party where all the other Orks team up to kill Orks who are acting like the Beast's Orks) and any Ork who begins to act like the Beast is always and immediately killed by his underlings for not being Orky enough (it's also the reason the Blood Axes are disrespected by every other Ork Klan, ignoring this is ignoring 30 years of history in the setting). Like I said before, having them act like this when it's already been established that they cannot act like this is like having the Chaos gods suddenly become the good guys of the setting trying to make everything noblebright. For your bit on the Eldar, I don't think you get what I said. I said having the Orks act like this would be as if the Eldar suddenly became very noblebright and decided to turn the setting from 40k into Star Trek. That's very different from making a temporary Alliance of Convenience like what you're suggesting (you seem to be misreading what I wrote). If you're going to keep defending it though, then just answer one question for me: Why couldn't the Imperium just locate a less defended spot on Ullanor and shoot it with a cyclonic torpedo? They don't have to get the AdMech's permission to do this (fucking Koorland could have done it all on his own, as could any one of the chapters who helped him out, as could several of the High Lords and every single Inquisitor involved in the conflict) and destroying the planet in such a way would have killed every Ork on it, including the Beast! Before you claim that the Ecclesiarch/Fabricator General would have stopped it I'll just reiterate my previous point, nobody needed their permission and they could/should have done it before telling them. Even if they just brought it down to the planet and detonated it there it would still have the desired effect (as is stated in the story where it's explained further why the Blood Angels temporarily allied with the Necrons), as would carrying a virus bomb into the Beast's palace. -- Triacom (talk) 21:53, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Rewrite[edit]

Before I get to it, does anyone object for whatever reason to a rewrite of the page, mainly to call the series out for what it was and to stop pretending it was anything good? There's so many moments in it that would be right at om in C.S. Goto's stuff, yet here it's eaten up as if it's not just acceptable, but something to be applauded. -- Triacom (talk) 17:14, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Sounds fair to me, I wouldn't object. But then I never read it myself - I just fixed up some of the writing within the article itself mostly. --LGX-000 (talk) 19:03, 22 February 2019 (UTC)


I mean, it’s not like people come here for the most accurate and unbiased sources, they can go to the fanwiki for that. As long as the rewrite is clever and funny, shouldn’t be much of an issue. - CoolUncleFranz (talk)) 12:03, 23 February 2019 (UTC)