Talk:Transformers

Um...Why is this here? Tim 16:31, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

'Cause we already had a page for MLP. So, why the fuck not?

So there is a table top game about transformers? either that, >>/co/. --TheSpoilerHeretic (talk) 22:04, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

On Edit Wars and Toy Robots

Enclosed within this section is a massive clusterfuck of an argument when users (including myself) began arguing about the tfwiki that is linked on the main page, as one anon had a beef with them and kept reinserting an edit that talked shit about them. The conversation as to why they did this deteriorated extremely quickly and nothing productive came out of it, eventually everyone just got bored and left it alone long enough that I decided to collapse this bit. -- Triacom (talk) 07:05, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Okay firstly let me get this out of the way, anytime I see anyone defending pedobait with cries of "PC" I get very suspicious and start suspecting the person throwing the defense to be a pedophile themselves. Secondly, taking a look at the shit that tfwiki shits on, it's mostly a bunch of gross lolicon-bait stuff that largely deserves to be made fun of for trying to appeal to pedophiles through a kid's toy line. Which as a dad myself I find viscerally reprehensible. Lolicons out of the toys I buy for my kids reeeeeeee. And transformers itself has often mocked the idea of robots having human sexual dimorphism with the IDW series flat out making it clear that it's the product of a deranged lunatic mad scientist. The idea of transformers who don't reproduce sexually having fembots is just kind of one of those goofy things that only happens because of the marketing execs wanting to sell the line to girls too. And making them Svelte and Sexy on top of that just makes it even weirder, kids probably aren't going to be more interested in a robot with double Ds and as for adults who'd be interested; refer to my above thing of generally disliking adults with weird fetishes getting near anything I'd buy for my children. It's also why I think Bronies who fap to horses are also generally worthy of contempt. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 16:34, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

There is absolutely nothing pedobait about Kiss Players you delusional retard. I hate kiddy diddlers as much as anyone else and think they should be lined up against a wall and shot but just because there is sexual imagery doesn't mean that something is automatically pedobait. Yes, that one audio drama that I do not need to name is fairly questionable, but the actual manga and the toy series are not pedophilic in the slightest. Any attempts to villify it are grasping at straws.

Second of all, yes, female transformers is a stupid shoehorned concept that needs to fucking die (don't get me started on tranny female transformers or any of IDW's other bullshit). But fucking sperging out about how a bunch of female decepticons have round asses and feminine proportions is both cringeworthy and forced, not to mention fucking obnoxious. The same applies to the nekomimi, which literally aren't guilty of anything other than being fucking robot catgirls (which is admittedly a dumb idea but doesn't warrant the ridiculous backlash the wiki gives it).

And this is without talking about how autistic the moderators there are. They will ban you for giving dissenting opinions on any of their political views (even if it's still highly relevant to the actual page being edited no less) and will go out of their way to ensure that their hugbox is secure and that their opinions are encorced sitewide. It's the most cancerous shit I've ever seen and makes actually trying to contribute completely impossible.

There's nothing pedobait about it? Just read that wiki's controversy section, it pretty clear states exactly how it's pedobait. You might also be a little confused with definitions, pedophilia is when it's showing the act, pedobait is when it's trying to draw imagery to the act. Also writing jabs at another wiki in that warning is not only very poor form, but it's flat out wrong since I haven't seen any evidence to support your claims. You're also 'sperging out' on them for far less and your attempts to vilify them are grasping at straws. I also checked out the Nekomimi page, aside from making fun of their appearance there's nothing like what you describe and the Megatronia page is fucking nothing like what you claim it is. You're literally seeing articles that only appear in your own mind and then accusing them of stuff they never did. As for the moderators, putting political views on a page is a fucking terrible thing to do, no matter how relevant it is to the article in question. -- Triacom (talk) 17:37, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

The only actual imagery that ever implies the act is the highly quesionable audio drama which is, as I said, entirely inexcusable. Still, that single drama is incredibly obscure and is barely known in its own release market, much less in the west.

And go look at the edit history of the article for the Megatronia comic, not the actual article for the combiner. Should have specified that, but the comic is the one that drove that wiki's mods up the wall, and is therefore where the cancer is contained.

And they do shove their own fucking political views in their articles. Go look at the Carbombia page or the Floro Dery page. The latter is a special exception because they literally accuse him of samefagging to defend himself on their shitty forum. As if a random flip guy even cares or knows of what internet people think of his work on a shitty low budget cartoon.

So are we going to just ignore the manga they cite then? There's plenty of imagery in that trash. I did take a look at the Carbombia page, and as before nothing that you're talking about is there. Nothing. I've also looked at the Dery page, and as before you're flat out lying about what's on it as that never happens. Also if we need to look back in the edit history to see what you're talking about, then you have no argument since what you're crying about has already been taken care of. -- Triacom (talk) 17:53, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

You sure we're looking at the right page? Or are you just denying the blatantly obvious? Here? let me spoonfeed you.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Socialist_Democratic_Federated_Republic_of_Carbombya

>The people are often heard swearing on the lives of their mother's camels and so forth. This is of course offensively stereotypical

>In case you didn't notice, Carbombya is a (very) thinly veiled dig at the real-world nation of Libya, whose militants were the Terrorist Boogeymen du jour in the 1980s. It's about as creative as naming a fictional country "Attackistan" or "Terrorahn" would be these days.

>Not that you could blame him; even ignoring the racist implications of the name, that pun is terrible enough to make anyone quit in disgust.

Now lets look at ol' Floro Dery

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Floro_Dery

>Additionally, between 2002 and 2008, someone searched out Transformers forums and messageboards for mentions of Dery's name, and would post under various aliases (often claiming to be one of Dery's "associates") to inflate his legend and verbally attack fan and foe alike for daring to criticize him or suggest that someone other than Dery designed something in the show.

>"Ote" briefly appeared on the The Allspark messageboard in 2005 to decry any critics of Dery's as "racists". Only a small archive of this series of interactions has been preserved, but "Ote" was silenced when everyone pointed out that one of the most popular Transformers artists at the time, Don Figueroa, is also Filipino.

>And in the last known instance, "Charlie Alvarado" made himself known on this very wiki in 2008 to contest the content of this article.

Note how they conveniently put a plug to The Allspark in that first one, which so happens to be the forum that all of their moderators, including the wiki

Of course, you'll just deny all these examples, so why do I even bother honestly?

I'm not going to deny these, I'm going to call you a liar since the carbombya page is pointing out stereotypes (while also making a crack at it with the strikethrough you omitted) and not making a political statement. That's also only one line in which you're freaking out over (once again you don't get to call others autistic when you're being far worse). As for Dery, at no point whatsoever did they claim that was him. Either stop lying or stop editing the main page to include shit that isn't true. At the rate you're going we're going to have to go to an admin for a suspension and/or a ban for you, and not because of your dissenting opinions, but because you're making all of this up. -- Triacom (talk) 18:18, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

See below as to why I'm criticizing this. Sure, you can call out racism all you want. But the way they go about doing it is childish as all hell, and it comes off as obnoxious and immature. They decry it as a terrorist boogeyman, then proceed to make stramwan names for it (and yeah, it is a shitty joke in poor taste, but that doesn't mean a free pass to go about crying about it and then using a voice actor's personal opinion as an appeal to authority).

And whether or not you (or I) agree or disagree with it, calling out racism IS a political statement. You're conveniently ignoring the footnotes at the end, and only reading the first quote listed to suit your narrative. The bottom two quotes literally make it out to be a politically charged statement vehemently against racism. That's political, full stop.

Jesus, you think I'm autistic, yet you're unable to pick up basic sarcasm and implications. They extremely blatantly and unsubtly imply it is Dery himself who's pulling a JIDF to go and protect his own reputation. If you don't believe me, go and look at the link cited when they mention The Allspark in that article, they explicitly accuse him of being Dery. Like fuck, you can dislike the guy's work all you want, but trying to call every single goddamn person who attempts to play devil's advocate for him a samefag is even more childish than that Carbombya shit.

Go ahead and fucking ban me then, I only ever use this wiki for the tactics pages for 40k. Jesus, you're behaving exactly like the spergs on that site. It's like I'm arguing with fucking /r/4chan or something.

Good lord, pot, meet kettle. You cannot call them immature when you've done nothing but cry about things that aren't there. Yes they made up a name, which they did to point out how ridiculous it was and why you should not do it. It's entirely reasonable to demonstrate why something like that is bad in that manner. I'm also not ignoring the footnotes, in fact I specifically addressed them before but you ignored that, ironic considering you're accusing me of ignoring stuff to fit some sort of narrative. It's not politically correct to sympathize with a person of middle eastern descent when a really bad racial joke is used for an area, and in fact it's in line with the more lighthearted approach the wiki takes to things. "They extremely blatantly and unsubtly imply it is Dery himself..." Where? In that comment where they said that they didn't claim to be him, or in that comment where they said people assumed it to be him? I never said I thought you were autistic, I simply said you cannot accuse others of being autistic when you're acting far worse than they are. To make this very simple for you, I cannot pick up on implications that are not there, and neither can anyone else. Also it's pretty rich that you said I can't pick up on either of those, yet you somehow don't realize Kiss Players is pedobait. "Go ahead and fucking ban me then..." I'm warning you because I don't want to do that. If you leave us with no other choice then that is what we'll have to do, but removing political beliefs from a wiki isn't something bad, neither is decrying pedobait for what it is, and nothing else you've presented is bad either and definitely nowhere near justifying that warning you're trying to attach to the link. -- Triacom (talk) 18:40, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

And you're still blatantly ignoring the obvious. Why the fuck are you still here if it's clear that you aren't contributing anything to this discussion? Fuck off, at least Crazy Cryptek behaved reasonably if he was slightly biased. You're just going in circles saying "HURR UR ASSUMING", while completely missing a huge fucking implication mocking Dery and claiming samefag, and then continuing on and on about your racism tangent when I have very clearly laid my standpoint on it, and you continue to tread on the exact same fucking ground over and over again.

Jesus dude, take your retardation elsewhere.

Are you some sort of living projector? Everything you're accusing me of is what you're doing. As stated before, I can't miss what isn't there, and you've yet to prove anything, which is why I'm still here. You're just going around in circles assuming whatever you feel like without proving anything you say is true. I've yet to move on because you've only repeated your points instead of providing new proof, and asking for proof of uncited claims isn't retardation. -- Triacom (talk) 19:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

>"NO U"

You haven't fucking proven anything either. "M-muh pedobait" proves absolutely fucking nothing, hell, you haven't even specified what manga it is considering that there are multiple series and each has multiple issues. If anything you're the one fucking projecting out of your ass, you stupid fuck. Please just kill yourself or go back to reddit already.

Very well. Dengeki Daioh gave us a series that isn't found wanting when it comes to undeniable pedobait. It's very odd that I have to tell you this though, it's almost as if you haven't read the page on the tfwiki that you're mad at since it does cover all of this for me. Also telling somebody to kill themselves because they thought you'd be smart enough to figure stuff out and look things up on your own without having your hand held doesn't paint you in a very good light. -- Triacom (talk) 06:24, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

>first image

Sexual imagery is unequal to pedobait or pedophilia. I thought we already went over this.

>second image

Censored cross sections are pedobait now?

>third iamge

That's supposed to be a fucking torture scene or equivalent. How the fuck can you find that erotic unless you're so pathetically underage that you find nudity in general erotic?

>fourth image

See second image

>fifth image

See third image

All you've done is prove that you're making bullshit out of absolutely fucking nothing. And I've had to spoonfeed you twice now, so I think I do indeed deserve a bit of payback from you.

If the sexual imagery is of children, then it's definitely pedobait and depending on the context it is definitely equal to pedophilia. For the record material like this (sexual imagery of children) has literally been used as such on "To Catch a Predator" so if this doesn't fit the definition of pedobait, I don't know what will. Yes the second image is pedobait, because it's of an underage naked girl, sexualized or no (though in this case she definitely is sexualized). If she was fully naked then it would be pedophilia. "That's supposed to be a fucking torture scene or equivalent." HAH! For your own good you should never look up BDSM, being tied up and exposed like that actually is a fetish. To be honest the more you argue in defence of these images, without even taking a second to say that they might have gone too far, the more I'm starting to wonder about you. It's really rare to find somebody that defends these images as anything besides what they are and I'm pretty sure nothing short of penetration would change your mind, even that you'd probably write off as being either 'tasteful' or a rape scene so it wouldn't count. Hey, if you want to enjoy your pedobait, then I guess you should go right ahead, I'm just saying that it's really not reflecting well on you in the slightest and it's certainly creeped me out. -- Triacom (talk) 08:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

So is Neon Genesis Evangelion pedobait now?

You're basically resorting to a hyper vague buzzword that covers a shit ton of stuff that could also be using sexual imagery for narrative and storytelling purposes, rather than just fanservice (which mind you would be pedobait, although I literally cannot find anything fanservice-y about the images posted, they're way too disturbing and creepy for that)

And how the fuck is that sexualized? Jesus dude, I'm starting to feel like you're just as if not more fucked up than the boogeyman pedos that you've been throwing around this entire shitfest. Well shit, NGE which I mentioned shows Rei nude in episode 5 and in EOE, is that pedobait? Could you jack off to that? I fucking can't, especially not the latter considering her arm literally drops out of her elbow socket during the latter example.

And yeah, BDSM is a fetish. Fucking tickling is a fetish too, is every kid's manga ever with a tickling scene fetish porn now? Seriously, you miss the fact that virtually everything on this planet has some sort of fetish equivalent.

And you're the one dumping buzzwords on them, I'm pointing out that what you're doing is fucking stupid and even as someone with genuine hatred for pedos I see this as entertainment with arguably questionable scenes and nothing more.

I already have given you an example of this continuity having pedobait, but you're clearly completely fucking ignoring it in lieu of making mountains out of molehills so why not you just go back to social justice blogging on Tumblr since you're taking this conversation no where?

That depends, does NGE have sexualized and sometimes naked underage girls? For the record, 'sexualized and sometimes naked underage girls' describes pedobait perfectly (google the word if you really want to (though I know you won't), you can find a definition). There's no story reason for those girls to appear naked in those scenes, neither is there a reason for a transformer to have a dick-tongue, or for a girl to be bound up like that, or for her to be splattered with 'white goo' in such a state. If you really can't see how that's sexualized, then I'm not going to spell it out for you again, all I'll say is that you really shouldn't look up BDSM, your mind might be blown (nice attempt at straw-manning and diversion though). It's weird that for somebody who claims to have a genuine hatred of pedos that you're defending a manga specifically meant to appeal to them, as well as defending a line of toys meant for the same purpose. Personally it's enough to make me doubt your claim, even if you hadn't been lying about a lot of stuff earlier in this page. "I'm pointing out that what you're doing is fucking stupid..." I wasn't aware that saying it was a bad idea to sexualize children was something stupid. I'm also more than a little creeped out that you seem to be in favour of this. "I already have given you an example of this continuity having pedobait..." I'll assume you're talking about the audio drama, which I'm not sure why you're holding up as pedobait and letting the manga slide. I'm not going to listen to it so would you mind giving reasons as to why you're holding it up on this pedestal? -- Triacom (talk) 09:25, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

>sexualized

Depends entirely on your definition although based off of what you've said I'd say so, but only sexualized in a psychological manner

>naked

I already said, episode 5 has a nude 13 year old girl and End of Evangelion has her nude again. I believe she appears nude multiple other times in the dummy plug plant but those are less noteworthy

Also once again, you're missing the fucking context. NGE sexualizes in order to push the plot, as a Freudian allegory. Rei in question is shown nude the first time to show her absolute lack of self worth and to represent her being meant to be an equivalent to a schizophrenic personality.

I'm not going to argue that they aren't sexualized, but if you're just going to say "THEY'RE SEXUALIZED SO THEY MUST BE PEDOBAIT" then NGE absolutely is pedobait.

And you don't even know the context of those scenes in question, how do you know there isn't a plot justification for them to be nude? The ones in the tanks in particularly definitely look like they're part of the plot. The one in the second example looks more like just a questionably drawn xray cross section than anything. Furthermore, the manga isn't colored. What's to say the cross section is supposed to represent nudity? The artist could have just forgone drawing details (as he does on Optimus on the exact same panel).

And how is this manga meant to appeal to pedos? Literally show me an interview or any official source that says this is targeted at loli fags. I don't find it sexually attractive or appealing at all, and I think you're the fucked up one here if you manage to.

And once again, NGE sexualizes children, but is it pedobait? You still haven't answered that, either due to lack of knowledge or on purpose (at this point I wouldn't be surprised at either really).

And I already mentioned that the audio drama is incredibly obscure and of questionable canonicity. That'd be like saying a kid's TV show involving children has R34, therefore it's pedobait.

The drama in particular has one of the female characters eating an icecream in Optimus Prime's front seat, when she drops it on his "shift stick" and licks it off, sounds of Optimus moaning in pleasure included. I'm not going to justify that one because it undeniably is pedobait, but it is like I said of dubious legitimacy, and is likely to be no more official than a shitty fanfic posted on Tumblr.

I am of course talking in a physical manner when I asked if she was sexualized, because it is possible to have a naked girl without showing anything or sexualizing her (there's also the question of legal ages between countries, but that's a whole other can of worms). I honestly have no clue what sexualizing somebody in a 'psychological manner' is and what you've described is more allegorical. In any case there seems to be a clear difference between the two. I honestly don't know if they try giving a reason for them being in the nude/almost naked, I am willing to bet that there's no good excuse though, and even if there was there's no excuse for them being sexualized while being in the nude/almost naked. If I was to show you proof, it would be to link the tfwiki, which I know you hate and won't read, so I'd just like to point out there actually is a 'lolicon' market in Japan for toys just like those. For the record if you really think that's pedobait, then I definitely have no idea why you're defending the images. -- Triacom (talk) 09:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

They explicitly show Shinji grabbing her nude breast after falling down on her when his schoolbag catches on her underwear drawer's handle when she appears out of the shower nude, shocking him (which is part-gag part-plot development in that respect). And yes, her sexualization is entirely allegorical, although there is one scene in episode 23 where she is shown combating an angel (with a phallic design) which attacks her Evangelion by penetrating it, with the screens in NERV HQ flashing on and off with the words "PENETRATION", followed by her Eva expanding in its abdominal area and looking similar to a pregnant woman. So she is sexualized, explicitly so, in fact sexuality in children is literally half the primary plot of the entire series.

So you're willing to take the above as a legitimate plot device but not willing to consider that the scenes above in the tanks are likely to be plot justified, then you really are just employing a double standard to push your retarded narrative.

And I won't read tfwiki, despite citing them as a source multiple times? Fantastic logic.

What, you honestly think I'm unaware of what lolicon is? Jesus, you really are fucking retarded. And that figure is in no way marketed to the Lolicon market, you really do not fucking know what figures marketed to lolicons look like. And you'll probably get me banned for trying to post them to show you what actual lolicon figures look like.

Because that audio drama, is, once again, not even official canon. The original source for the drama isn't even known, only the contents of the script. Why the fuck would I blacklist a manga over a completely unrelated audio drama? Even if the audio drama is legitimate and official, it certainly does not mean the manga is pedobait. Two separate entities.

Then in that case, yes that part is pedobait since they're sexualizing an underage girl. For the record I'm willing to take them both as plot devices, from what I've gathered with the pages I linked the images from (and various posts) the reason she's dressed like that is because they felt like it, and not because of some actual reason. Yes, you're not going to read the tfwiki, because if you did read it instead of make up whatever you wanted we wouldn't be having this conversation. "What, you honestly think I'm unaware of what lolicon is?" How did you jump to that conclusion? I know you've been having issues with facts and reason, but you literally mentioned the word in the argument I was replying to. Of course I know that you know, you're the one who said the word. "Because that audio drama, is, once again, not even official canon." What does this have to do with it being pedobait or not? If it was part of the main series, would it not be pedobait? -- Triacom (talk) 10:11, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Hahahahah, fucking what? That seals it, I actually am arguing with a fucking retard.

Dude, eventually, one day, when you turn 15, you'll understand that this thing called context exists, and not everything is a fucking black and white concept.

And what fucking sources say she's dressed like that because they felt like it? Sources trying to prove that it's pedobait or actual legitimate unbiased sources?

So when I directly quoted sources gathered from tfwiki and posted direct quotes from there I didn't read it? Fantastic assumption, captain retardismo.

You're the faggot having issues with facts and reason, you can barely understand the concept of context and project your own logical fallacies onto me. I'm half convinced you're baiting because no one. no one is this fucking stupid.

What does it do with it not being pedobait or not? Well maybe, just maybe, if it was written and recorded by someone with absolutely no connection to the official Kiss Players team, or its not connected to the manga or any other media at all other than having the same name and characters, it's not an actual part of the fucking main series? Does this not fucking make sense to you? How are you so fucking stupid?

And that seals it for me too, I seem to have been arguing with a pedophile this whole time. Someday, surely long after you're banned from this wiki (don't worry, your statements here will remain here) you might realize that it's wrong to physically sexualize children, regardless of what context you try applying to it. "So when I directly quoted sources gathered from tfwiki and posted direct quotes from there I didn't read it?" Maybe it would be better to say you didn't read it right, aka what you say I'm doing. I also can't understand whatever sick logic you're running on that would suddenly turn pedobait into a regular series if it was only part of the main series. You can have the last say here though, I'm simply not going to argue any longer with somebody who thinks sexualizing children isn't wrong. -- Triacom (talk) 10:32, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Ah yes, the person who advocated for mass public execution of pedophiles is a pedophile. Truly sound logic. Gold star in the special olympics for you.

It is wrong to sexualize cartoon children for the sake of sexualizing them or for the sake of fanservice. It is NOT wrong to sexualize them as a plot element, as a storytelling device, or even if it looks vaguely sexual due to art style. Get that through your underage skull.

And how many times to I have to fucking say it? That audio drama is extremely dubious and highly likely to be no more canon than your average fanfic. If I draw an R34 comic of a kids cartoon running right now. is it part of the main canon? Jesus you really do not understand how to fucking compute basic logic, no wonder you have no understanding of the concept of context.

Please do leave, and while you're at it, obtain a six shooter and point it in your mouth. It'll do everyone who's ever met you in real life or online a favor.

I have little to no intention of editing on this wiki again considering the state of its community, so please do ban me. No only will it prove that this place is no better than tfwiki, it'll prove my entire argument right.

Some of the biggest homophobes ended up being gay. In my book if you think it's okay to sexualize children, then that makes you a pedophile, full stop. When I said that seals it for me I really did mean it, we've only been running in circles for a while now too so it's not as if there was anything to gain. I'd point out how you have no proof, point out your lies, then you'd make up new ones before I'd say sexualizing children is wrong and you'd say it isn't, and the cycle would repeat. Point is I'm done with it now, because now I can say I tried my best to reason with you, but there was simply nothing there to reason with besides a very sick individual. Being banned from here doesn't prove your argument right, it only proves we do not tolerate people like you and with good reason. -- Triacom (talk) 10:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Homophobes being gay is a shitty meme pushed by liberal media to discount the opinions of people who dislike gays, be it for legitimate or illegitimate reasons.

Clearly no one here really cares about your book, nor do they think it's reasonable or sound, so please cease fellating yourself and fuck off, like you said you would.

And it took you 3 hours to realize that this conversation was going nowhere after I explicitly said "this conversation is going nowhere"? Christ, truly a testament to your intelligence.

And another thing: HUGE difference between sexualizing cartoon children and sexualizing real children. The latter is ultimately inexcusable in every form while the former is in some cases justified.

And go ahead and keep pushing that I'm a pedophile, just like tfwiki pushes that Dery is a samefag, or that Kiss Players is unjustifiable pedobait full stop no context required. Or that the Megatronia comic is horrific and evil and literally makes them go ugh. So on and so forth. Just proves me right again.

>Unironic usage of tranny. Oh this is going to be a fun conversation with someone who has no axes to grind for sure. The kiss players line of toys is made almost entirely to pander to the fetishes of creepy weeaboos and otakus who get off to loli-esque girls. They pull literally every trick in the toolbox there is to pander to lolicons without outright crossing the line. "She's really eighteen, honest", "highly ambiguous character age designs", "we'll say she's a schoolgirl but not specify the kind of school". The only thing missing is someone who's actually eleventy billion years old but still looks and acts exactly like a nine year old with some added sexuality on top to make for a guilt free waifu for Lolicons (looking at you Fire Emblem; don't think I've forgotten Nowi. Ought to be ashamed of your god damn selves.) It's also full of needlessly sexual imagery with pettaneko or whatever the term is characters and also full of a lot of rape imagery and the moment "rape imagery" and "children/people who look like children" come together is when I slam the fucking brakes and turn around and drive straight to "nope" town. And dude, what the fuck kind of parent wants to see sultry catgirls in a children's toy line like transformers? This is a series for children, one with a significant adult fanbase, but still for children, sultry catgirls are as jarringly out of place as dropping a bunch of khornate berserkers in a pixar movie. And as Triacom said, you're the one who's making screeching rants here, not us. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 17:59, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

As for Carbomya that joke belongs in the same place as FATAL's "Jewwy Jewbacca". In the trash. Teletran 1's voice actor was entirely justified in getting up and leaving when they decided to put that pinnacle of bad comedy (that most kids wouldn't even get in the first place) in the script and refused to take it out without stopping and thinking "you know, this might just make our Lebanese voice actor pretty upset". I cannot recall a single person who has ever found Carbomya funny. Not even in the ironic "man what a shitty pun haha" kind of way. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 17:59, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh boy he said a mean word how horrifying

That entire line just reeks of fucking projection. Jesus, it's literally just Alternators figures repackaged with human drivers, which happen to be female and underage (oh gee what a rare trope in japanese entertainment amirite). Well yeah, there is a shit ton of sexual imagery, but you're forgetting that this is a japanese only line catered to a japanese only audience, and the nips generally don't care about this kind of thing. Which technically also invalidates your use of the word weeaboo.

What the fuck is sultry about the nekomimi? I don't find them sexually attractive at all, I think the problem lies with you m8. And you're the one sperging out about 140+ characters that warn that the wiki generally holds a thin ice policy to anything they deem a dissenting opinion

And yeah, oh god, racism. How terrifying, truly a crime. You can deal with humor in poor taste without coming off as incredibly condescending, forced, and whiny, you know. Fucking "In case you didn't notice"? Really?

Hey anon, you don't get to make fun of others for being offended given how you're freaking out about stuff you only imagined and based on far less. It's also entirely fair for somebody to get that made when such a racist stereotype is used in something they're making (as stated, it's not even funny). Also when THIS is an image you can make with Kiss Players toys without any modifications of any kind, then there's something seriously wrong (no joke, that was the #2 image when google searching "kiss players line of toys"). Not only are they underage, but just look at what they're wearing and the poses they're in. Being Japanese doesn't excuse it. "...you're the one sperging out about 140+ characters that warn that the wiki generally holds a thin ice policy to anything they deem a dissenting opinion." No, they're arguing against a lie. Saying that they remove dissenting opinions isn't true, saying they remove lies is. -- Triacom (talk) 18:27, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

It's convenient how you claim I'm imagining any of this, when you blatantly ignore entire quotes that justify an argument, and then proceed to take an implication as bluntly as possible and fail to realize that they are implying Dery to be a samefag. I feel like you're the one who has an intelligence suppressor on to prevent any cognitive dissonance from occurring

And you're still missing the point about how they handle the racism was incredibly childish. Just like how you missed the point of my entire argument towards you, and resorted to "I-I'll ban y-you!" to try and save your own face.

How the fuck is that picture "seriously wrong"? It's literally just a teenage girl sitting in a seat with 3 other girls standing around her? For fuck's sake, that is quite possibly as innocent of an example of Kiss Players as you can pick. Like fuck. I hate pedos and all their variants, and I cannot see anything sexual at all about that image. What the fuck are you smoking that allows you to see bullshit in literally nothing?

And by "arguing against a lie" you mean arguing against someone pointing out that their own forum had a massive shitstorm over the Megatronia comic? Because someone in /tfg/ on /toy/ literally got banned for that. Even despite the fact that they clearly having nothing against bringing up forum drama, and he clearly cited sources from the exact thread for it showing exactly how bad the reaction to it was.

So yeah, you really do know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about, and you're quite literally seeing sexuality in the most innocent shit possible. You really are fucked up.

You are imagining it. If the page says that the person acting on Dery's behalf only claimed to be an associate and never once claimed it was him, then you're imagining it when you think the page implies them to be the same person. Combined with this you also imagined that I called you autistic when I didn't, and given your other statements it leads me to wonder if there's some sort of switch in your brain that forces you to jump to conclusions. "And you're still missing the point..." How is it childish to call out racism when they see it? I'm not trying to use banning as a threat, I'm warning you about the eventual outcome because I don't want people to get banned from this wiki. As far as I'm aware nobody's argued against banning people as much as I have, and nobody's tried defending the people who were under discussion as to whether or not they should be banned as much as I have. I've also got no face to save in this argument. "How the fuck is that picture "seriously wrong"?" Because she's not wearing any pants and is sitting with her crotch on top of Optimus' face while another girl records it. I have to admit I've never heard somebody call a face a seat before, that's a new one and at least it gave me a laugh (unlike the image). "And by "arguing against a lie..."" I mean that saying what you said in regards to the wiki is a full-on lie. If you want to say that about the forums, well that's another discussion entirely, but for the wiki it simply doesn't apply. "...you're quite literally seeing sexuality in the most innocent shit possible..." This quote's going to be really funny in hindsight when you realize where Optimus' mouth would be if he had one. -- Triacom (talk) 18:49, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Then go onto the source cited in the section where it claims an "associate" of Dery defended him on the Allspark. They explicitly state belief that he is Dery, and if you seriously still aren't picking up the blatant sarcasm due to your low functioning autism then I have absolutely nothing to say.

Once again, calling out racism is not childish. The way they called out racism with their "by the way" and appeals to authority IS childish. Major difference there, and I sincerely hope this is the last time I have to goddamn repeat myself like a skipped groove.

And don't try and claim moral higher ground here, that's a load of shit and you know it. Casually saying "hehe kiddo you'll be banned if you know what I mean" is in no way fucking "warning", you're literally doing the equivalent of taking off the safety and cocking your gun and then saying you're only just warning someone that they might get shot.

And that logic is total bullshit, if I put Legends Blackarachnia in a sexual position masturbating does that mean that the toy should be banned for having sexual implications now? Unless you have proof that's something major like boxart or stock photography and not just a random fan doing pervy shit then you literally have no fucking argument there.

And if they blatantly remove forum drama when it suits them, include it when it does, and shoehorn their views on racism, politics, and other stuff, then my statement on them having a thin ice policy is totally legitimate. I suggest you actually go and try editing something on there that's explicitly against their opinions or agenda and see what happens.

Yeah, people on the forums thought it might be Dery, and the wiki states that people on the forums thought that it might be Dery. If you don't see how that's perfectly reasonable then I cannot help you. So where in calling out racism did they 'appeal to authority'? "Casually saying..." Except I didn't say that, I mentioned it because you've already been put on an Admin's talk page before I said that, which means you're at risk of being banned. Imagine that I threatened you all you want (you're certainly not left wanting when it comes to imagining things) but that was a warning. "...if I put Legends Blackarachnia..." Is she not wearing pants? Is she underage? Is she being fetishized in the main series and the toys? The answer to all of those is no (don't get into an argument about the pants now, you know what I mean). If an underage girl is being sexualized in the main series and the toys, then it does deserve to be removed. If they remove forum drama, then that's the wiki deciding to distance itself from the forum, just like 1d4chan and /tg/ are distanced from each other. -- Triacom (talk) 19:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

By the way, you can quit saying that I'm 'missing implications' when you completely missed all implications of the image that I posted, to the point that I had to explain it to you in detail. -- Triacom (talk) 19:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Dude, they didn't fucking "think" it might be Dery, they fucking went to town and pulled the samefag charade on him to completely discount his arguments. Which, to be fair, weren't very solid in the first place, but they behaved like a bunch of jumping monkeys with how they responded to him. I don't understand if you're missing all these details on purpose or because you're just that dumb.

Let me fucking spoonfeed you, again.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.toys.transformers/GMtCoM9qRVc/2M0lEURRuEoJ (This is a link to the alt.toys.transformers mentioned, it's owned by Google groups)

"Begging forgiveness if this seems suspicious on my part, but isn't that screen name the same as one of Mr. Dery's homepage accounts?"

http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/25628.html (archive of the Allspark link)

"Treadshot 2.0, I strongly believe that you're Floro Dery! Do you still remember me?"

And then the links they cite to their own wiki.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/User_talk:76.213.224.139

"My best guess is this is Floro himself who is completely outraged that anyone but him would get credited for design work on Transformers"

"Hi Floro. We've got Shohei's art posted on his article, it can't get more visually evident than that."

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/User_talk:76.213.244.5

"Where is your visual evidence that you designed it, Mr. Dery?"

And they fucking did appeal to authority, see where they mention the teletraan 1 actor. Well yeah, it did happen, and the reasoning is correct, but the final sentence at the end makes it a leverage for their argument against racism and as Carbombya being a shit joke.

Jesus, this is like pointing out that someone used a pronoun in his writing, and them intentionally going "NO I DIDN'T NO I DIDN'T STOP MAKING STUFF UP"

And allow me to repeat myself, fucking ban me if it gets you off, you retarded fuck.

And I don't see how the toy I mentioned being underage or not (well it's a fucking transforming robot from space your guess is as good as mine) or whether or not she's not wearing pants (see previous answer) are relevant to the point that you are using a pose that someone else created, and is literally not a valid argument of any sort unless it has some sort of official status, like say stock photos, or box art. Even then, that could be attributed to a perverted cameraman, and not the series itself being pedophillic.

There are hundreds of girl's dolls portraying teenage characters, if I strip them and take nude photoshoots with them, are they pedohillic (or rather in this case hebephebic) toys too?

And I still have no clue where the fuck you're getting this fetish shit from, because I definitely haven't picked up any semblance of fetishry other than what other people have created based on literally nothing. I'm not going to argue that there is sexual imagery and that putting it in a manga with underage girls is indeed morally questionable, but there are no implications whatsoever of pedophilia, pedobait, or and fetish imagery at all really.

And my point isn't that they remove forum drama, it's that they are incredibly inconsistent, ridiculously so, on their polices on choosing to include or remove forum drama. I don't see how the fuck you've completely missed that. And you're still not getting the fact that my warning was a warning against editing the wiki, not reading it. Although clearly it looks like this wiki needs a warning too nowadays.

What does any of that forum drama have to do with your complaints about the wiki, besides the rather new complaint that they're inconsistent? You claim the wiki implies they're the same person, when it does not, it simply says people on the forums thought they were the same and following the provided links shows that yes, people on the forums thought they were the same. How shocking that a wiki is not only right, but that it might try to be more impartial to a person than the forums are, it's almost as if that's a general thing with any wiki based off of a forum (even we're not as hostile as /tg/ when it comes to certain writers). Also so long as you continue to claim that those pages are saying stuff they aren't saying, you are making shit up. As for appealing to authority, how was sympathizing with the actor and mentioning what they did appealing to authority? It's making a comment and you're free to disagree with said comment all you want as they're not saying on that page that their view is the only correct one, or that they're experts on what should/shouldn't be said. Now for your comment, you really don't see what's wrong with selling a pants-less underage girl sitting in a way that her hands seem to be the only thing covering her crotch, then I can't help you. By the way, that was a pose the toy comes in and with the clothes it comes in. It was not made by somebody else but by this point I'm not surprised that you aren't doing any research of your own on this sort of thing. Now onto a point I've waited on, I want to bring up that complaint that they're inconsistent. Can you give me an example as to how? From what I'm seeing the wiki stays fairly distanced on the subjects and talks about them in a more relaxed attitude, rather than screaming that they're wrong, as you are currently doing. To be honest I missed this point of yours entirely because I thought you were talking about the wiki this whole time, you know, the thing we're supposed to be discussing and I had no idea you'd get this off-topic. Finally I never said that your warning was a warning against reading the wiki, where are you getting that from? -- Triacom (talk) 06:24, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

>it's ok for a wiki to use forum drama as a source to slander someone guys i swear

I think you're the one who needs to be banned m8, because I don't know about you but forum drama is the last thing I'd consider a reputable source.

And blatant slander is "right" now? Aren't wikis supposed to be as unbiased and impartial as possible?

And what is this, 2012? /tg/ doesn't give a shit about Ward anymore and the only time Cruddace is brought up is Tyranid discussion. I see Goto and WAAC faggotry brought up more often than either of them.

And apparently it's pedophilia (or pedobait, which, at this point, is just a fucking buzzword) to sell a toys of underage children now? Like what, did you want her to be completely clothed wearing a fucking hijab and shit? Sorry if she's wearing a short skirt which is accurate to what teenage girls wear nowadays. Blame the fucking media if you want to call that pedobait, not some shitty obscure manga.

It's literally a fucking sitting pose. That's it. Any toy with a sitting pose really could be exploited like that. You're once again creating sexuality out of absolutely nothing.

I've already said, they blatantly remove references to any forum drama when it ceases to suit them, I believe I brought up the edit history of the Megatronia comic as proof of that. Which is funny because you're the one who completely ignored the existence of the obvious lefty bias in the "humorous" captions of that page.

And you're the one who derailed this shit with your pedobait goalpost moving, so don't even try to say that I'm the one who went off topic. Blame yourself.

The wiki didn't use forum drama as a source to slander though, because there's no slander on the wiki itself. This is what I mean when I say that you're making stuff up, since this is something that isn't on there, neither are they using it as a reputable source. "Aren't wikis supposed to be as unbiased and impartial as possible?" That depends on the wiki, 1d4chan sure doesn't do that, and neither does the tfwiki. "/tg/ doesn't give a shit about Ward anymore..." Sounds like somebody didn't visit /tg/ when Matt Ward announced his return to Games Workshop. No, the series is pedobait (I already explained the difference, it's not the same as pedophilia) and selling the toys to kids is more incidental (though in my opinion it's still wrong). It's not that she's wearing a short skirt, we've already explained to you it's the pose and what else she is (or isn't) wearing. By the way, could you stop flip flopping on points? You keep on trying to come off as in the right, yet every time I prove you wrong on something you immediately jump to something else without any consideration for your previous argument. "they blatantly remove references to any forum drama when it ceases to suit them..." Where's your example of them being inconsistent? I asked for one, so are you going to give me one or am I the only one who's supposed to provide proof for their claims? "And you're the one who derailed this shit with your pedobait goalpost moving..." Says the one who keeps moving the posts. You wanted proof the toys were sexualized, I gave it to you. You wanted more proof of the series being sexualized than the audio drama, I gave it to you. If you'd just accept it instead of moving the posts and demanding more proof we wouldn't be here, and considering that the tfwiki (rightfully) calling Kiss Players pedobait was one of your main complaints, we're not off-topic in discussing it. -- Triacom (talk) 08:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

>the wiki doesn't have slander

>Dery is somewhat infamous among modern fandom for the outlandish and egocentric claims he has made in various interviews, many of which have been met by skepticism thanks to his own contradicting interviews throughout the years. He has taken credit for single-handedly designing literally every incidental human and robot character, and has further claimed to have been the originator of the idea of a transforming planet, despite early Japanese concept sketches which precede his involvement. Essentially, he takes primary credit for the success of the Transformers series, and has even claimed that, were it not for his movie character designs, then "the Transformers by now would be a has been already like the Go-bots."

And also, the wiki DOES accuse Dery of samefagging

>The commonalities of these tirades—including the assorted howls at being insulted, the claims that clear arguments against him somehow prove his point, citations of the same material in more than one place despite the claims that it was found "by accident"—make it pretty clear that they're all the work of the same person. Their immense similarities to the pontifications seen in Dery's own interviews have left most fans to assume this individual was Dery himself—but if it wasn't, he had one majorly rabid fan running around.

>Their immense similarities to the pontifications seen in Dery's own interviews have left most fans to assume this individual was Dery himself

Of course you'll take this opportunity to say "b-b-but they said "most fans to assume" so it doesn't count", which in this case they're still pulling a trick no better than "9/10 doctors" or "85% of statistics".

And hell, 1d4chan is a wiki for /tg/, there's literally no way it can be impartial. No wiki dedicated to a single website can ever be impartial, period. However, tfwiki is a wiki for a franchise. There is absolutely no reason it cannot be unbiased and purely informative, instead of opinionated and desperate to force bad jokes everywhere it goes.

I haven't fucking flipflopped on anything, nor have I jumped anywhere. If anything you've repeatedly ignored major points (like their autism on the Megatronia comic article, or the Nekomimi not being sexual in the slightest) and repeated yourself consistently on stupid shit that I've either debunked or are left entirely to the opinion and thus cannot be used as objective arguments.

That isn't proof that the toys are sexualized, and neither did I even ask for proof that the toys are sexualized (I haven't even brought up the toys at all actually). I asked for proof that the series was pedophilic and had pedobait, you gave me sexual imagery that while is questionable not unarguable and not indefensible.

You're the one who's giving me trash for proof, then intentionally ignoring the obvious when I give you proof that tfwiki is biased, forcedly progressive, and spergs out over the smallest shit. Why not you shut the fuck up and go back to crying to Walky instead of wasting my time?

That's not slander, those are fact stated as facts. They also say all the accounts were done by one person, but they don't say it was Dery, so they're not accusing him there either, they just merely said that's what people thought, and good job on predicting what a rational person would say when given this information. If it can't be impartial then why did you ask if it was supposed to be? "I haven't fucking flipflopped on anything..." You've given me a dozen examples, but I think my favourite's the blonde-haired girl sitting down on her 'seat' which was just an innocent little picture right? Actually wait, let's read what you wrote: "I haven't fucking flipflopped on anything..." "I asked for proof that the series was pedophilic and had pedobait, you gave me sexual imagery that while is questionable not unarguable and not indefensible." "You're the one who's giving me trash for proof..." That's quite impressive. First the proof was questionable, and now it's trash. I haven't ignored any of your points, I simply pointed out that nothing you were mad at was actually on those pages you were mad at. It's also pretty rich that you claim they're sperging out over the smallest shit while you're being far worse than they could ever hope to be. Meanwhile you haven't debunked the stuff I've pointed out, you just make up some new claim and pretend like your old claim never happened. For the record I'm going to stop arguing on the pedo thing since you clearly refuse to accept anything less than drawn child porn, and even if the series contained it (I'm assuming it doesn't as I'm not going to try finding it) I'm not going to to post it or link it here, and from this point onwards I'm going to treat any requests of proof as requests of child porn, as that's literally what you're asking to see. Considering you have no proof, what you're asking for and how you've defended those images, I'm honestly considering just writing you off and calling it a day. -- Triacom (talk) 09:39, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

>those are stated as facts

>"somewhat infamous among modern fandom" is a fact

You either really do suck at reading comprehension or you're being retarded on purpose. God help you if you ever have to take a higher level English exam of any sort.

And how the fuck do we know those accounts are done by one person? There are 7 billion people on this planet and you're telling me that it's highly unlikely an artist for a popular kid's TV show has (arguably rather rabid and stupid) fans? I didn't predict what a rational person would say, not by any definition of rational that I know of, I predicted what you as an incredibly biased and so far stupid person would say. Which was entirely correct because you're just as predictable as you are batshit retarded.

And the picture you posted was incredibly low-res, printed on old paper clearly showing signs of aging and then taken a photo of again. The details are obscure and being unaware of an element of a low quality picture is entirely different from flipflopping. I suggest you actually do some fucking research on the buzzwords you use because you're definitely not using them correctly.

The fact that the proof isn't objective and unquestionable means that it is trash. Does this just not resonate with you, or do you have incredibly low standards?

And I have provided proof, you're just either being as retarded as humanely possible with interpreting it, or you just blatantly ignore it. Because clearly there would be no other way for you to justify your ridiculous standpoint.

And you're the one ignoring all of my old claims or just dropping them entirely, what, am I supposed to repeatedly bring them up like some autistic faggot or something?

That audio drama which I have repeatedly stated to be unarguable pedobait is "drawn child porn" now? Nice! Someone call Chris Hansen on my ass because I'm guilty of having listened to an audio drama in a language I don't even understand.

So you're going to post child porn now, because you're too irrational to comprehend the concept of questionable and/or debatable evidence being shit? You really are a special kind of autistic. Please do your parents a favor and end yourself, or at least do me a favor and end this pointless shitfest which in the first place you had absolutely nothing to do with.

Yes, it is a fact. You can look at their forum posts or google him to find it is a fact, maybe you should take some time off so you can figure out how 'logic' works. "And how the fuck do we know those accounts are done by one person?" If only they said how on the tfwiki... I also know what a rational person would say however. When they come across somebody who makes the exact same arguments as somebody else, and that second person is no longer around, they can deduce that they're the same person especially when they react in exactly the same way. That's not being retarded, it's having proper reasoning skills, being retarded is seeing an image of a girl sitting on a robot's face and somehow coming to the conclusion that she's sitting on a 'seat'. "...being unaware of an element of a low quality picture is entirely different from flipflopping..." First of all you're such a fucking liar, you're telling me you somehow missed the giant fucking robot behind her? Even if I accept that, that doesn't excuse you from the 'questionable but also trash' proof bit you posted in the same argument. "The fact that the proof isn't objective and unquestionable means that it is trash." You know what's objective? The children were being sexualized. You know what's unquestionable? The children were being sexualized. As far as your definition goes that means my proof isn't trash. "And I have provided proof..." You mean like you provided slander that doesn't exist? Your proof was also not objective or unquestionable, which in your own words means it's trash. "...what, am I supposed to repeatedly bring them up like some autistic faggot or something?" Oh you're a real winner, and a hypocrite since you've been doing this since the beginning with the non-existent slander and the mentions of the other pages. I didn't even bring up the combiner or the catgirls for a while and you keep going back to them anyway, I guess by your own definition that makes you 'some autistic faggot'. "So you're going to post child porn now..." NO. If you had better reading comprehension than a baby you might have seen that I specifically said that I would not do that for any reason. -- Triacom (talk) 10:05, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

A bunch of posts on a shitty little forum does not imply infamy amongst a fandom which has millions of fans. And you're the one trying to say I'm illogical? Fuck off.

Gee, maybe the wiki that has a clear bias against him and is actively trying to slander him is literally drawing nonexistent lines as "proof" that it's the same person who may or may not be Dery? How fucking stupid can you get? You're literally saying "How do we know the murderer didn't kill anyone? Ask the murderer".

Being retarded is having poor eyesight? Well sorry for being unable to discern the contents of a shitty fucking polaroid photo, but not everyone has 20/20 vision and not everyone is as perfect as you are.

So what if they were being sexualized? What the fuck is context? You still don't get that your definition of pedobait is so fucking vague that you've just blacklisted a shit ton of media and entertainment including incredibly popular series like NGE, which I mentioned, primarily to either prove that your logic is flawed or that you're just a retard. I successfully proved the latter.

And I brought up the combiner and the catgirls again because you're the faggot trying to say that I'm dropping points, when you're the one who drops them because you can't fucking justify them. I'm calling out your blatant hypocrisy, although it's clear that you're too fucking stupid to see it.

And I'm the one with poor reading comprehension now? lmao, said Mr. "They didn't slander Dery I swear".

Do me a favor and just turn off the computer and go to bed. You have school tomorrow.

Quite Frankly I think the fact that Japan is as okay as it is with sexualizing underaged people is worth condemnation. I don't care if everyone else does it. If everyone else is jumping off a bridge and you join them in jumping off a bridge I'm calling you a dumbshit too. If every anime and manga studio in japan decided to make pedobait I'd call the entire industry wrong too, I don't give a shit how integral it is to their culture. Ancient Greece thought it was okay to fuck underaged boys up the butt and I'm 110% okay with holding that against them. SJW cultural relativism can kiss my ass in this case, children are not for adults to perv over. Not now, not in the past, not here, not there, not ever, not anywhere. Doesn't matter if they're cartoons or real people. It's gross and anyone who faps to it needs their heads dunked in ice water until they rethink their fetishes. Zero tolerance up here in this bitch. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 18:34, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

As for Nekomimi let's see...christ they're in maid outfits and one of them has a big ol' pair of hooters? There is no way that wasn't made for the sake of fan-service. Yeah no that shit doesn't fly with me in a line of toys for children. And god in heaven it's from Energon. That is literally the worst transformers show, fuck it that shit needs to be purged with fire. And the reason why I don't want your ranty shit on this wiki is that as one of the resident oldfags of 1d4chan from when I was first making anon edits before making my first handle (and forgetting my password) I've got a sort of attachment to this place. I want it to be somewhat respectable, funny but informative and something 40kers, D&D nerds, and WoDers and more can look on with pride. Unfortunately this place is mostly regarded as a shoutbox for people to rant with wildly inaccurate information, bad fandexes and fanfics, and terrible formatting standards. I am not going to have this place's reputation sink any further after having seen the whole fucking Knights Inductor debacle and more. Nuh uh, you get your bugbears on out of here. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 18:34, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Well that's a different story for a different time isn't it? I don't agree with Japan's sexual moral values either but that certainly does not justify creating supposed examples of pedophilia out of thin air. Pedophilia of any form is a goddamn crime yeah, be it ingrained in cultural values or an individual thing. But trying to say "oh look this toy can create a sexual pose that must mean it's pedophilia" is hilariously stupid. It's very easy to put T30 Arcee in sexual poses too, shall we decry that as sexualizing children's toys?

And I literally see nothing erotic about maid outfits. I don't know about you but there is nothing sexual in that to me. And big tits? How horrifying! I hope I never ever see that again, especially not in modern Transformers media like IDW's comics... oh wait, who's Windblade?

Complaining about a character's design having big tits is like complaining that a character has an oversized head, or too small of a hand. It's just a goddamn design. It's not exactly like big tits are never ever seen outside of fetishes anyways.

But yeah, fuck Energon, jesus. That show is awful. Fuck the entire Unicron Trilogy in general honestly. Even for a series that's never had fantastic media that continuity was just a special kind of hot garbage.

If by oldfag you mean you're stuck in the mentality /b/ circa 2012 (like a huge part of this wiki is, seriously, fucking Derp?) then yeah, I can totally believe that. Doesn't mean I condone or support it though.

They're not accusing it of pedophilia, they're accusing it of being pedobait. I already stated how the two differ. I'll also have to agree that they're clearly meant as a fetish, and I also don't agree with that as far as childrens toys go.-- Triacom (talk) 18:51, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

It's neither pedophilia nor pedobait. Aside from that single audio drama which I once again will say ultimately is pedobait, whatever implications of either that you see in related media for that line are either figments of your imagination or of your insanity.

Bullshit, there's that manga they mentioned and even a simple google image search of that manga brings up a lot of pedobait from it. -- Triacom (talk) 19:44, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

If you say so.

See above, or you could try looking something up on your own to see whether it's true or false. -- Triacom (talk) 06:24, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

I can't decide if you're just completely underage and deem everything nude to be erotic or can't tell the difference between sexual imagery and sexual fetishry, or you're just trying to find an excuse for your "pedobait" nonsense

I really have no clue how a regular person could possibly look at any of those manga images I linked and not see how they tried to do sexual imagery of children there, especially when the creator of that series said they did it to make jaws drop. -- Triacom (talk) 08:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

For the last time, sexual imagery even with underages is not pedobait. You're missing this thing called context. Probably because you lack the IQ points to understand it.

And shock content ≠ pedobait. Still not a fucking argument.

For the last time, sexualized children, images or not, is pedobait regardless of context. I have no idea why you're defending this (at least no idea I want to admit). -- Triacom (talk) 09:27, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Allow me to bring up NGE again, I guess Shinji being an allegory for the Oedipus complex means that it's pedobait? Fantastic, tell that to the hundreds of millions if not billions of people who've seen and enjoyed the series.

I'm defending it because your justifications (as well as tfwiki's) for it being pedobait are incredibly fucking stupid, and no sane or intelligent person should have to put up with this bullshit.

Guarantee that Triacom posts regularly on rpgnet with this reddit sjw shit he pushes. Newfags like him ruined /tg.

Nice guess, a shame it's wrong since I don't go on rpgnet and I don't go on reddit either since I'm not a fan of it. I'd also hardly call being against pedophilia being a social justice warrior, and I've had this account for years and have been playing 40k since 3rd edition, so I wouldn't call myself a newfag either. -- Triacom (talk) 04:38, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Nigger I can smell the sjw, namefag forums, and karma wafting off your edit history. You are of the invader ilk who brought ruin upon 4chan and we both know it. Your knowledge of 40k is not mutually exclusive to this.

I'm pretty sure that by the point you've run out of actual points to debate so all you have left is accusing someone of being an SJW you've lost the argument. Get the fuck off my lawn newfag. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 06:50, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

It wasn't an accusation. It was a statement of fact, Mr. >Unironic usage of tranny. You are newfags and invaders who hate imageboard culture and do your level best to try to twist it into your tumblr fantasies.

If it was a fact then it would be true, which it is not. I'm sure you've got your facts well documented though, and are definitely not just guessing because you have no real argument. -- Triacom (talk) 07:21, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I've seen you at work for years now and I stand by assessment of you, Triacom. I'll pour through your older edits for choice examples but your butt buddy Cryptek(also known as Kain on dakkadakka thanks for the info dumbass) here is a easy google search away to prove his SJW credentials. Source for all following is off the first page of his post history (didn't even have to search) on his account https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/listByUser/57646.page

Bro, you don't get to tell women what they should be content with in terms of representation anymore than anyone has a right to tell trans people that they should be happy with the status quo where they're lucky to even get acknowledged as existing in most fiction outside of being the butt of disgusting jokes. Representation is about making people feel included. And in a large shared setting where one can endlessly add content because it's not tied down to the concerns that affect a single narrative setting like Lord of the Rings; there is no good excuse to not make people of colour, queer people, or women feel more included by giving them characters that they can relate to as a source of representation without people jumping on them with mansplanations about why they're violating canon by existing. Characters who should at least get to do something important once in a while even if it's in some self contained novel series. Like, do you even know how happy LGBTQ (or simply Queer for short) people are when a major work of fiction acknowledges their existence and gives them a positive portrayal? They squee in joy and delight because someone has the kindness to acknowledge they exist and not portray them as monsters. Or how much it brightens the day of many a young girl to see a woman who isn't just window dressing or a prize for the leading man to win in a movie or a game or a book? Or seen a black person get positively elated when they get a black character who isn't a collection of racial stereotypes? Maybe you don't have the proper frame of reference for it, but this is very, very deeply important to many people who would love nothing more than for the media to acknowledge that they exist and deserve to be respected and loved like any other human being. This isn't some dumb wish fulfillment audience avatar thing, this is born out of wanting to be acknowledged in a society that all too often objectifies, marginalizes and sometimes outright demonizes them. When you have angry redditors ranting, raving, and shouting about "da ess jay double yous" when major media has the audacity to include a cast that's not just filled with white dudebros or has girls who have the audacity to be actually major and independent characters; you have a lot of these marginalized people feeling very threatened to simply share the same space with the IP lest they get the kind of ranting and raving tongue lashing that Bioware fans get from people who have been accusing Bioware of cultural marxism since the 2010s began.

Is this some sort of Kafkaesque absurdism? Are you seriously attempting to insinuate that your average middle class male nerds are somehow more oppressed and marginalized than Blacks and Indigenous people who are disproportionately likely to end up dead and tend to live in markedly lower standards of living than the racial majorities in the developed world; than women who are constantly objectified, ignored or shoved to the sidelines in fiction; or Queer people who have for most of the modern era's history been regarded as actual factual abominations by much of the developed world, to be denied the right to exist as they actually are on the pain of death? People who even now are continually called abominations to be damned to burn in hellfire to this very day? Is this something I am actually seeing?

The inescepable fact of humanity is that people want representation of themselves and their groups in the fiction they consume. When you have half of the human population who has for the longest time, been excluded, marginalized, sexualized, or even outright villified in most of humanity's history in the creation of fiction, you're going to get women pushing hard for increasing more visible female representation in fiction and wanting a decrease in sexualized portrayals of their gender and sex. You also see this with racial minorities such as black and native american populations who want to see more of their population represented in a morass of seemingly endless whiteness in most visual and even textual medium. And of course, sexual and gender identity minorities have also pushed for greater representation in the face of thousands of years of straight up erasure or even demonization. Queer people, racial minorities, and women aren't coming to take away your franchises from you, they just want to be represented in a respectful way and given actual prominence rather than just existing in the margins of settings and universes after being pushed to the sidelines for most of storytelling's collective history.

Straight outta tumblr, mate.

It's strangely fascinating that you've seen me on here for years yet still know next to nothing about me. I'll get to your link in a second, but I honestly have no issues with a lot of things that most SJW's would have issues with. As a few examples, I don't have issues with the pages calling Sisters of Battle 'bolter bitches' or with them having wearker stats than Space Marines (in the former's case I'm not going to use the name because I don't find it funny (though I won't remove it because others do), and in the laters case there's a lore reason for it) nor do I think it's all that anything besides GW trying to appeal to their main market is the reason that they've got less support than the other factions. The reason I was arguing so vehemently on this page is because the argument above related to something that's flat-out illegal and last I checked, arguing against something that's illegal doesn't make you a SJW. Also if you really did follow me for years you'd have seen the edits I did years back in certain discussion pages where I said that I couldn't stand SJW's like Anita Sarkeesian, and even years later I still stand by that, because she did little more than try to play the victim while pushing her specific agenda. It's also easy to find other users like one called hbomberguy who actually have interesting discussions about the points Anita covered very badly, but I doubt you'll care for them since you'll probably write him off as a SJW.

As for your Cryptek stuff though, first of all it's a little weird you followed him to Dakkadakka, secondly I get where they were coming from as far as the context of those posts go (it was yet another argument on female space marines and I usually try to avoid those since they go nowhere) and in several points in those posts they are correct (especially that bit about everyone wanting representation). They might have gotten a little off track but the main thing they were arguing about was that some people didn't feel represented in the setting, or feel they weren't represented enough. If they want to argue those points then that's their right, and I'm not going to get involved because as far as I'm concerned, you can make your own army whatever you want. If you feel that there aren't enough gay characters in 40k then you can make your characters gay, or bi, or trans, or anything at all. I'm not going to tell them they can't do that, I'm just going to try my best to not get involved. If you want to know why, then it's because I'm not a part of the LGBT community; I don't have the same frame of reference they do, and as such even when I try I cannot get as mad at certain things like they can, I cannot feel discriminated against like they do, and I do not find my enjoyment of the game decreased because one faction is S3 and another faction is S4. On the flip side if GW released a female faction that was universally S6 and tore apart Space Marines like paper toys then while I might initially raise an eyebrow, but so long as they gave a lore explanation for it I'd be perfectly fine with it. If they released a gay/bi/trans character then I also simply wouldn't care one way or the other, and I'd treat them the same as any other character. -- Triacom (talk) 08:15, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

hbomberman is your example of someone who espouses your viewpoints? hbomberman the SA goon who gets mad upvotes on reddit shitholes like Gamerghazi? Wow mate, you really showed me your hardcore totally not reddit goon forum user credentials. I stand corrected for all time now. Cryptek posted his own info on his user page in a previous revision. I didn't stalk the motherfucker, he laid it out for all to see and your implications can talk a long walk off a short pier, faggot. If he wasn't a tumblrkin then maybe he would realize that doing shit like that is fucking stupid. Anyway I have no illusions of changing anything here as I have watched this place go to the fucking dogs with outsiders just like /tg/ has. Just don't fucking tell me what totally legit oldfags you are when anyone who isn't a recent transplant from some cancerous shithole can see from your own edits that you are not. I rest my case. Proceed on with your skullfucking and revisionism of this wiki and /tg/.

"hbomberman is your example of someone who espouses your viewpoints?" NO. Read it again, I said that he says the same things Anita does, but unlike her you can actually have a discussion with him and he doesn't try to play the victim constantly. I also never accused you of stalking Cryptek, I just said it was weird that you decided to follow them to dakkadakka, calm the hell down with your jumping to conclusions. If you're really so high-strung that you think the appropriate response to such a comment is to call the other person a faggot, then you really need to take a break from this page for a few hours. To be fully honest, I really don't know what you consider to be good or not with this wiki, and if you really did read my edits then you should know I'm open to suggestions, and I definitely don't know what you think an oldfag is if it's not somebody who's been editing for 4 years and has been a browser of it since at least 2010. If you don't want to give any advice on how the wiki can be improved and want to leave instead then I'm sorry to tell you, but I doubt you'll be missed. -- Triacom (talk)

Allow me to butt in: lolicon isn't illegal. It may be disgusting and fucked up but in most countries it's perfectly legal to view and draw it. Actual child pornography is illegal though. But you were arguing against sexual implications or imagery of children. If outright blatant drawn pornography of children isn't illegal, why the fuck would imagery (not even explicit imagery) be?

You really do know nothing about what you argue about, and judging from the other anon's posts I'm not even surprised that you're a bunch of Dakka Dakka browsing reddit tards. Forumfags are the absolute worst.

You can ad hominem until the cows come home but it doesn't amount to shit. Especially when you're a bunch of newfags on my fucking lawn. America and Japan not illegalizing Lolicon is surprise surprise, an exception because America loves to protect degenerates. In most countries it can and will get you in shit with the police if they find it on your computer. I'm not sure if any of you virginal basement dwellers have had kids but anyone who masturbates to kids doesn't belong anywhere that kids go to. Not in the Transformers fandom, not in 40k, not anywhere except behind bars with mandatory psychotherapy until they stop fapping to kids. As a parent I want my kids to be able to play a new game and be able to play as someone they identify with or someone they want to be. I used to not give a shit about transsexuals until my niece came out of the closet and that shit makes you care a lot more. Maybe you hipster kids buying shit off your dad's credit card think that it's cool to not give a fuck about anything or shout "nigger" like it's /pol/ or stormfront in the hopes of offending my sheeple mind but whatever I guess I'm not "hip with the kids" anymore.

The thing about representation though is that it's just good business. People want to read and play shit that they can put themselves into. It's not only the nice thing to do, it gets you that $$$ that everyone wants. I mean shit, look at all the people buying third party female imperial guardsman models. Course it's not like GW cares about the Imperial Guard I mean "Astra Militarum" anymore with how little the guard's had to do in Gathering Storm and how long it's been since we've last had a Ciaphas Cain or Gaunt's Ghost book or really fuck all anything for our boys in 5+ t-shirts and flashlights to do; but there's clearly money there to be made. I'd especially like it if I could get my daughter female Imperial Guard models while still supporting GW if she wanted to play the guard now that she's old enough to take some interest in her dad's toys. But asking a bunch of basement dwelling /pol/acks who've probably not seen a woman's vagina in person since being shat out of their inbred wombs to know what parenting is like is like asking a dog to navigate traffic lights for you.

Thirdly, that's not tumblr my friend. You want real tumblr SJW tier shit? It'd be "screECH omg omg look u guyz like seriously, the author is dead so they can't just go and tell me that my headcanon that Samus is trans is wrong. That's so transphobic ugh ugh ugh, signal boost this guys we need nintendo to make this official!!!1!1!11!!!1!" or some shit like that. And personally the reason I don't give a shit about GG's position in the skeleton war is because none of their bugbears are things I give a shit about and from where I'm standing, /pol/acks and GGers are some of the most easily triggered screechy fuckheads I've ever seen. "Freedom of speech!" they shout, until someone disagrees with them where you all screech a billion pepe memes and dumb ass fucking buzzwords. Yeah please, hypocrite more why don't you? Anyone who screeches "SJW, CUCKS, CULTURAL MARXISM!11!" at the simple sight of two girls kissing in a comic book or a video game is just as easily offended as any fourteen year old tumblrina screeching for all characters to be trans and all relationships to be gay.

Fourthly, I've been on 1d4chan since 2010-11 friend-o. When I first came here half of this wiki's pages didn't even have tags and we were all raging about Wardex Blood Angels, Kaldor Draigo didn't exist yet, all while LCB was probably the only fan project documented in detail on the site. I quite frankly don't give a shit about your /tg/ credentials even if they weren't made up. From where I'm sitting, you're all a bunch of newfags. Namefags, anonfags; you're all new to me. So go ahead and try digging up what I post on other sites, I don't give the slightest fuck. Go and cry on /pol/. But one thing I'm not having on this site is giving pedophiles a safe fucking space from criticism. Because you lolicon apologist cunts here are the only ones asking for a safe space for your sick fetishes. Literally no one of any other sexual orientation or fetish wants their safe space harder than pedophiles because the slightest bit of criticism triggers you kiddy fiddlers so bad you fucktards flocked to shitholes like 8chan and AnonTalk when 4chan decided it didn't want to be associated with people who fap to ten year olds. So go on, rant to me about how much we want safe spaces when you, yes you want 4chan to be a haven for pedos where they can roam freely without the righteous bitchslap of shame being delivered to you.

Even the fucking furries aren't this ridiculously sensitive about someone thinking they're sexual deviants. Furfags have at least learned to roll with the fucking punches and how to be less like a bunch of screechy faggots. Fucking bronies are less easily offended. You pedo scum though? "FREEDOM OF SPEEEEEEEECH REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE", yeah give me a fucking break and take a fucking seat over there. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 09:56, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

The only thing I disagree on here is whether or not having representation like that is good business, since it didn't exactly work out for them before. Personally I think GW got a little spooked when the Sisters of Battle continued to sell very poorly and that's one of the reasons it took them this long to bring in new models like the Sisters of Silence (which so far have been fun, and if they sell well maybe it'll convince GW to give the Sisters of Battle another go). Everything else on the other hand I very much agree with, even if I wouldn't use as much vitriol in saying it. -- Triacom (talk) 10:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I like how you're so upset that this guy has leaked your Dakka Dakka account that you're now writing essays of autism and you aren't even bothering to format properly anymore. Can't make this shit up.

Also, that bit about your niece coming out as a tranny? "Hurr durr I too didn't like mentally ill people but X person I know turned out to be one by pure coincidence now I love transsexuals". That proves nothing other than that you're a pussy faggot who isn't willing to stand up for what he believes in and just bends to whatever his niece says.

On your lawn? Get a head of yourself, unless you own this wiki or are a moderator, you don't own shit. You're just the equivalent of a tripfag on /tg/ who's currently suffering from delusions of grandeur.

And all your strawman arguments mean, well, nothing really. You're coming up with imaginary quotes that don't really prove you right so much as they do prove you retarded.

And yeah, keep calling the guy who advocated mass executions of pedophiles a pedophile. That's certainly getting you somewhere.

So your rebuttal to me correctly pegging you (with proof) as a thin skinned newfag sjw is to throw a foot stomping, incoherent, literally shaking sjw tantrum? Bravo Cryptek. You really showed me what with your encyclopedic knowledge of esoteric /tg/ happenings that definitely aren't some of the most popular pages here. Man that LCB shit is deep insider knowledge AND you knew when Draigo released! The final blow had to be when you dropped the dark secret that Matt Ward codexes weren't well liked on /tg/. This was absolutely not a overcompensating attempt to portray yourself as not being a green as grass tourist from GROGNARDS.txt. You also demonstrated your iron skin forged in the fires of shitposting by completely losing your shit from me saying nigger once. We all know that nigger is only a word that /pol/ uses and not one of the most common forms of address on imageboards. No sirree, only the hitler youth brigade says nigger. Is /pol/ what keeps you awake at night? Did they steal your hair dye and ruin your favorite twitter #WOKE hashtag? What in the blue fuck was your point in bringing up /pol/ in the first place anyway and what did it have to do with anything that was being discussed here? Is that just your immediate go to script when your faced with anyone who isn't a soft tumblr cunt like yourself? NAZI NAZI NAZI. You can scream it all you want but it doesn't bolster your points and it don't magically make you not a fucking outsider. And who can forget your fortitude in the face of loli drawings? Truly a impressive and courageous display of not screeching like a child who got to told to go to bed when faced with one of the original parts of imageboard culture. You are a fake. A mountebank. A charlatan. A fucking sjw who has latched on to a culture that you don't belong to, never did belong to, and fucked with because it caused you anal annihilation that it existed. So you can take your whiny screeching, your tranny niece, your precious outrage, and turn them sideways and shove them right up your bitch ass. If they can fit in with the rainbow colored dragon dildo that you already have inserted. Nigger.

Imageboard culture is defined by one factor more than anything else: we are all oursiders. We disagree on, well, pretty much everything. If you're really this unable to deal with the simple fact that people disagree with you, then I hope you have a good therapist. As for attacking his neice and his acceptance of her? Fuck you. If you love somebody, you accept who they are. You aren't any more qualified to talk about imageboard culture than the rest of us, and if you're going to insist that you're the only fa/tg/uy here and that the rest of us are tumblrinas or go on TVTropes, maybe you just need to spend more actual time on 4chan.

>yes just let every trod all over you that's totally going to get you somewhere in life

>your son comes out as gay? totally acceptable

>your daughter says she's bipolar? it's fine, just ignore it

>your niece says she's a boy? natural behavior, just let her be

And this is how cucks are born. Through an absolute lack of self-pride or standards.

I don't even need to say anything any you pair of autists can find someone else to start shit with. Amazing. I'm just going to sit back and watch you cancerous faggots justify your retardation to someone else.

Time for someone with a username to fill in, just so Wikifag can't brush this off as "Oh, it's just anonymous trolls, nothing is wrong." This conversation (especially you getting triggered at the first mention of /pol/ instead of tuning it out and recognizing that /pol/ doesn't actually care about /tg/) has confirmed everything I already suspected: You and a substantial segment of other "contributors" are from TVTropes or some similar shithole on an infiltration mission, a plague of locusts who have fully degenerated the shitpit you came from and moved to here in search of a fresh community to destroy beyond repair. I bit my tongue reading the blatantly biased screeching that passes for discussion of political subjects here, I rationalized with the lisitcles that share names with trope articles, but this? Jesus fucking Christ. (Oh, and that "lolis are pedobait and anyone who doesn't agree that MSPaint scribbles cause physical harm to children hundreds of miles away is a pedo" bullshit? Look up Haggard's Law and take a look in the mirror, faggot.)

This is not your home. It never was. As much as you may deny it, even to yourself, you are only interested in our joy and succor in this benighted world to the extent that you can break it. Go back to /r/Overwatch and never come back.OriginalPrankster (talk) 12:05, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

What? What? Triacom and Cryptek have been productive users here for years. Trying to deny that is just as delusional as pretending that all of /tg/ agrees with you. We all use this wiki, but at the very least you can stop treating your own, very biased opinions as the absolute truth and calling anyone who disagrees with you a tumblrina.

An aside on the above shitflinging by a guy who doesn't have a stake in it either way

I like how all of this bitching and moaning is about something considered obscure even in its own country of origin, was never popular enough to be worth discussing on this wiki (let alone get any real coverage), and is ultimately completely irrelevant to /tg/'s interests due to the above reasons. Whether it's pedobait or not is ultimately irrelevant, the fact is that it simply isn't relevant enough to be mentioned anyway.--Newerfag (talk) 16:24, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

To be honest this page shouldn't even fucking exist. As someone 5 3 years ago said it has nothing to do with /tg/.

Someone would probably point out that fan codex or something as a tenuous justification, but I'd agree. However, I've learned that trying to make the "not /tg/ related" argument is not one that is likely to be listened to, though perhaps with this shitstorm maybe people might start asking if we really need a whole page on something whose only 1d4chan relevance exists in a couple of abandoned homebrews. --Newerfag (talk) 16:34, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the about about page's /tg/ relevance one way or the other, but, damn, people, this has mess been running for almost a solid week! How much more is there to say? Is the argument even about Transformers anymore (I honestly don't know, and I'm not wading through the sea of bullshit to find out)? Rather than deleted, maybe the page just needs to be locked from any further edits for a couple of days, let people cool off?

This argument stopped being about Transformers when resident autists Triacom and Crazy Cryptek decided that trying to shoehorn in pseudo-political discussion into a page where it had absolutely no place was more important than actually discussing the merits of the wiki in question and whether or not they deserve to be called obnoxiously liberal.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize that we even needed to talk about other wikis beyond just planting the fucking link. Why couldn't people have been reasonable and just done it that way? Hell, I'll demonstrate it on the page right now. --Newerfag (talk) 20:52, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Because fucking autism. Seriously. Just planting the fucking link and cutting out all descriptions would have also removed any excuse for me (or anyone else) to plant their shitty opinions on that site. But instead we decided to argue about fucking cartoon children being sexualized.

No wonder /tg/ hates this fucking place.

So you're saying it's the wiki's fault that you had zero self-control and so had to exacerbate the edit war you're blaming others for? Your own contribution log is pretty damning evidence of that, and let's not forget you could have done precisely that and didn't. Don't play innocent here.

And in any event, if anyone wanted to hear another user's views on lolicon, they would have asked about them. What Triacom or yourself does or doesn't believe about loli has absolutely nothing to do with anything at all, so agree to disagree or go take this somewhere else. --Newerfag (talk) 00:35, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

This argument stopped being about the fucking tfwiki opinion thing ages ago. The reason it exists is because we have a pair of retards who genuinely thing they can shove their opinions down everyone else's throat, all while sounding like PC tumblr cunts and obnoxious numale liberal faggots. Look at that giant rant by that massive faggot Crazy Cryptek up above. HURR DURR EVERYONE I DON'T LIKE IS /POL/ /POL/ /POL/ /POL/ ALSO IF YOU TRY TO POINT OUT THE EXISTENCE OF CONTEXT THEN YOU ARE A PEDO. Literally no surprise that based off of each others pages alone the two of them engage in gay sex daily.

> zero self-control

> exacerbate the edit war

> What Triacom or yourself does or doesn't believe about loli has absolutely nothing to do with anything at all

NO. Ignoring the flouting of one of the cornerstones of not just /tg/ culture but imageboard culture by "productive contributors," there is a very real relevance to the course of the wiki as a whole in this, and it's the only reason I decided to stick my dick in this mess in the first place instead of letting a skubfight between two autists run its course. Strap yourselves in, because I've been holding this for a while and this has finally given me the impetus to say my piece.

For a while now, I've noticed a trend both here and elsewhere of users new and old getting very antsy about making sure they're all cool and progressive and suchlike, bulldozing anything that they think might make them look otherwise in the eyes of anyone who happens to be looking. Whether or not they are actually interested in said thing beyond its social utility is immaterial. It is usually done with the pretense that those things are "gross," "disgusting," "toxic," or fundamentally, On The Wrong Side Of History. IMO one of the purest (as in not tainted by people's troll-induced hatred of /pol/ because otherwise the /pol/ article wins by a country mile) example of that phenomenon on this wiki I've seen is the Salamanders article. There are others, such as the unfunny levels of hand-wringing on Racial Holy War and various bits and pieces where source material provides an in, but let's focus on this one.

This page used to simply talk about the Salamanders as what they are, a chapter of total bros with a massive fire fetish, a predilection for blacksmithing, a serious skin condition, and as a consequence of the previous a shedload of /tg/ nigger jokes because let's face it, an entire chapter of Samuel L. Jackson clones and Jamal stereotypes is hilarious to think about and the the actual chapter of space Africans are space Africans, not African-Americans, which kinda ruins the joke. (Fuck, now I want a homebrew chapter of Black Panthers. It'd contrast well with that one dude's painted army of Nazi Marines.) One or two edit wars between easily triggered autists later and there's now shit about how anyone who enjoys these jokes is a member of the "Krusty Kaos Klan" and a desert-dry history of how the people of Nocturne aren't Africans except now they are but not really etc etc. It all carries a stink of the writer seemingly caring mainly about showing how not racist he is, at the expense of the original joke and article and making the whole thing a fucking mess. Judging from the talk page, this was the writer's idea of "compromise." (Yes, I know that Triacom just barely suggested that some of the jokes could stay. That doesn't reflect on the shitshow above. I've been meaning to fix the article to be funny again, but I haven't found the time until now, which is when I saw this shitshow.)

This brings me to another point: the people who pull this shit don't do compromise, not really. Everything must fit their tunnel-vision worldview, and if you disagree then you are On The Wrong Side Of History and either you will be destroyed with cheap shots or you will watch what you were trying to protect be slowly twisted by degrees into what they wanted in the first place. Want to draw a woman who weighs less than 500 pounds, even you consider yourself one of us? You are On The Wrong Side Of History, we're going to bully you until you attempt suicide. Your community thinks that Pathfinder's writers are fucking over their setting with shoehorned politics? You are On The Wrong Side Of History, time to call in our buddies and conspire to get you all banned so we can break your toys and shit in your sandbox. Write something good about MYFAROG? Then you are On The Wrong Side Of History, so we'll either slander you, censor you, or change your page when you aren't looking, because we sure are, every waking moment. (Full disclosure: I haven't been able to get a copy of MYFAROG to make any judgements on its quality, I just see randos everywhere claiming that it's the new RaHoWa based on the author and biased reviews without actually reading the thing. When I do get a copy I'll renovate the article here to suit.)

I've seen it on forums like RPG.net, where they ingratiate themselves with the mods through dicksucking of all sorts and start pulling bans out of the air to remove their enemies. I've seen it on wikis; the intrepid faggots of ED have collected reams of primary evidence of Wikipedos flagrantly pushing their views (which Wikipedia is supposed to ban you for, by the way) into articles on shit like GamerGate, with punishments occurring months after the damage was done if at all. (The GG shit is especially hilarious since you had guys who were openly collaborating with people party to the shitstorm to bias the articles in their collective favor, and it still took months for ArbCom to finally take action.) Unless you make a real stance and tell anyone that tries to change it to fuck off it doesn't stop. They can't be bargained with: in the end they will accept nothing less than total dominion; if you try to ban politics they'll just switch to frog-boiling, claiming all the while that their efforts are totally non-political. They can't be reasoned with: they are 200% convinced that they are right and you are wrong; evidence and rhetoric rolls off them. They do not know fear: no true fanatic does. They do not know pity or remorse: after all, there are no bad tactics, only bad targets. And once the hivemind finds you they will not stop until your community is dead. Fuck, at least /pol/ invaders tend to either try to convince you or drown you in shit, then get bored and go home.

So yes, this shitshow is relevant, because it's an extension of a wiki-defining issue. Now I need to go the fuck to bed, so please don't delete this shit or block me or anything like that because if the Internet's taught me anything that shit just makes the other guy into a martyr. I don't want that shit. OriginalPrankster (talk) 03:57, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

The thing is, there's a very different reason for those changes: The jokes were never funny. They were removed not because they were racist, but because they lacked humor. Although now that I think of it, if you feel that they ought to be in so badly JUST FUCKING ADD THOSE JOKES IN YOURSELF.

As for the politics, I find it funny that the people who whine the most about politics being shoved down their throats are simply so paranoid about it they start seeing SJW shit where it doesn't exist and have a chronic case of "The Internet is Serious Fucking Business". I strongly suggest that if you feel so strongly that you'll be attacked no matter what you do, just leave the wiki and never come back. It'll be better for everyone involved because you won't have to feel like you're On The Wrong Side of History while we can stop talking about all this BS. (And for the record, I created the Racial Holy War page, and if I didn't like what it is now I sure as shit wouldn't do nothing about it. So don't try drag me in as a bogeyman too.

Heck, if you even bothered to look at the history pages you'd notice Triacom and Cryptek were never involved in either of those edit wars- which were well over a year ago, I might add. If you're going to accuse people of being SJWs, at least accuse the right ones.--Newerfag (talk) 06:08, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Nothing has been added to the page. Nothing above needs to be added to the page.--97.104.199.133 19:19, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Again, the edit war is on the TALK PAGE. There has not been a change to the main page for several hours. Newerfag just randomly blanked it.--97.104.199.133 16:00, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Article bloat

At this point we're really getting into "why isn't this just a link to TFWiki" territory here. Out of all the new stuff Thannak's added, the only thing I'd really keep is the character entry on Arcee, and only then as a segue to discussing the various approaches to female Transformers Hasbro's used over the last 30 years. Maybe the humans one too, for comedy purposes. OriginalPrankster (talk) 15:55, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

• Fix'd. --Thannak (talk) 19:43, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

> fixed

> 4000+ bytes added

I'm saying that if anybody cares about this shit, they'll go to TFWiki and trying to do TFWiki's job for them is just making the article harder to read. OriginalPrankster (talk) 22:59, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, and we should shutter off all the 40k articles onto one page for the same reason. There's actually a fair number of TF tabletop games, I'm just not writing those yet because its fucking boring. I'm hitting the fun part first, like someone would use to make an RPG. --Thannak (talk) 02:31, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

I have to agree with Thannak here, if this argument held weight we'd have to just link all 40k articles to the relevant Lexicanum pages. -- Triacom (talk) 10:09, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

In that case, why not just make a Transformers namespace and make every bullet point here into a full-blown article? That would be even better for someone making an RPG, except it wouldn't, it would just be a huge fucking mess of random 40k memes and TFWiki copypasta, all for something that's only tangentially /tg/ related. The reason why we don't link 40k topics to Lexicanum is because we can do 40k better than Lexicanum can for /tg/'s purposes, because we know all the memes and generally "grok" 40k well enough to play fast and loose with it while still being informative. We can't really do Transformers better than TFWiki can, firstly because Transformers is huge (hence why the current article needs 90% of its wordcount in collapse boxes to not be longer than the Amazon) and secondly because TFWiki already does our usual schtick of being snarky yet informative, and does it better than we could for the topic because /tg/ just doesn't have the same context base. I'm usually all for expanding the wiki but the article's current state is the reading equivalent of cold oatmeal, all bland and goopy. It actively compromises the reading experience, to the point that if I was going to write a Transformers homebrew I would give up on it as a source because of all the tl;dr. OriginalPrankster (talk) 13:59, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

If you'd like to improve it then go ahead, however saying that we can't do it because somebody else is already doing it isn't a good argument and doesn't hold up. -- Triacom (talk) 04:59, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Counterpoint: I have yet to find a good enough page explaining the types of Transformer subraces. I keep finding new ones while reading about characters in wiki binges that I had not seen referenced elsewhere. As far as an in-depth explanation of all canon appearances of every character, TFWiki is of course mandatory. I’d compare the aim here to our TES and Fallout coverage. Explain all the types of Elves and other races and how they came to be, explain how the clusterfuck of ideas that make the internal logic of the setting work, and then go into the different works and major characters quickly. Also, at least Transformers has a fair amount of tabletops compared to those. --Thannak (talk) 15:31, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Fixed again, hopefully this time for good. Thannak, before you revert please explain why all the unnecessary detail needs to be here in the first place. --Newerfag (talk) 14:09, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

1) Article bloat isn’t a real problem unless information is overly verbose or redundantly stated repeatedly, 2) Its far from the only page on this site that similarly explains all the lore for a loose or nonexistant connection to /tg/ (see Bionicle for example), and 3) Multiple fan RPGs exist and there’s no other page on the internet summarizing all the RPG-relevant setting info on one page rather than a fuckton of large articles on each subject. Point is, page is in line with the standards set by many others on this wiki. The “Autism” tag applies no more to this than pages such as Fallout, and blanking the page is as appropriate as deleting the TES page. If you’re going to police 1d4, do it across the entire site instead of just nuking one single page that I’m working on. --Thannak (talk) 17:09, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

1) None of said information is even the slightest bit relevant for anyone but the most extreme fans. 2) The excess of one page does not justify doing the same thing on other pages, and if anything means all of those pages are long overdue for culling as well. 3) We already linked the wiki for Transformers, why should we need to say everything about a setting because some people are too lazy to look at other websites? They need to learn how to do their own research anyhow.

Given your fixation on TES, I've gone and given it the exact same treatment as this page, so don't trot it out as an excuse again. --Newerfag (talk) 19:58, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Welp, you’ve declared a pointless crusade on all the fun pages of 1d4 now. Can’t wait to see where this clusterfuck ends up. Don’t forget Fallout, Pokemon, all the webcomics not about gaming, and the video games too. --Thannak (talk) 20:41, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't have time to deal with all of those things, but I do highly approve of removing the unnecessary quibbling. If you are still concerned, I have seen to it that all the important information is still there though- all the stuff actually needed for someone to use the setting has not been taken away. Only the long rambling tangents about things that nobody save for the most dedicated of fans needs to be worried about are gone, which have taken up disproportionate amounts of space relative to their actual importance. --Newerfag (talk) 20:50, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Disproportionate to what? Because you don't care for it? What about the people who do? What's to say Elder Scrolls or Transformers can't get have pages like all the DnD gods with only one or two lines? --FenaTiX (talk) 22:26, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Don't try to reopen a months-old discussion with shit-talking- especially when you haven't even bothered to make a single productive edit before that post. But if you really want to start this again, at least the DnD gods actually come from something that's an integral part to /tg/. This is just /co/'s baggage that's overstayed its welcome. --Newerfag (talk) 01:52, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

"If you haven't made an arbitrary amount of edits, you have literally no argument." Lmao ok buddy. "that's overstayed its welcome" is just stop-liking-what-I-don't-like.jpg--FenaTiX (talk) 18:47, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

How about you look at all the arguments already made here so you have an idea what to day beyond "I want it here, therefore it should be here". It doesn't work that way, buddy. And the TES and Transformers autists should consider making their franchises more relevant to /tg/ before complaining about representation. --Newerfag (talk) 22:19, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Transformers Card Game

So, Transformers Card Game. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Transformers-TCG On this page, or on its own? --Thannak (talk) 04:05, 21 December 2018 (UTC)