Talk:Warhammer/Tactics/8th Edition/Wood Elves
Deepwood Scouts and Enchanted Arrows
"As a side note; 12 of these armed with poisoned arrows will kill a warmachine each turn, on average, without a modifier." is incorrect. Most warmachines have 3 wounds. 12 attacks = 2 roll 6 to hit (autowound, and assumingly autokill for most warmachines) inflicting 2 wounds. The remaining 10 attacks have 50% chance to hit but not poison (3-5's hit but do not poison), leaving 5 hits (I imagine the original math forgot to account for the 2 already hitting from poison). In order to wound most warmachines, you'd need to roll a 6 to wound (1/6 shot) meaning you need 6 hits in order to "on average" inflict the last wound you need. Thus the entry should read 14 attacks (2.33 or ~2 poisoned hits, leaving 12 more attacks, 50% means 6 hits and 1/6 wounding = the last wound you need).
I don't know why you have complicated this so much, on average 12 shots = 2 of each dice result 1&2 = misses (im going off what you saidi dont know the bs) so 4 misses. 6 auto wounds = 2 wounds done thus far. Leaving 6 plain hits and on average 1 role of a six to wound so a third wound = on average a dead war machine.
Glade Guard and Enchanted Arrows
Excerpt from older revisions
Consider having a unit of 20 (2 ranks of 10 or 2 units of 10) with Trueflight Arrows. Hitting on 3+ across 30" with no shooting penalties whatsoever is actually quite satisfying. Expensive, but good fun.
Another option is to try a block of 30 with Hagbane arrows and park them in the free venom thicket that you get. The enemy will get whittled away by poison shots before having to charge into dangerous terrain and take 30 ASF poison attacks. I would strongly recommend this for any dwarf player who does not want to change tactics when playing wood elves.
Waywatchers and Withering
Alternative Opinion: It should be noted that you absolutely have to pick your targets with waywatchers and combine them with withering from the lore of shadow to reduce the enemies toughness or you're going to be sorely disappointed. 10 of these firing with their armour ignoring shots only kills 2 toughness 4 cavalry per turn on average. Meaning if you don't reduce their toughness, it'll take you 6 turns on average to earn back their cost. Now what cavalry unit isn't in combat by turn 3? Lol. Once that cav unit is out of reach most armies other troops are going to be toughness 3. So now you're forced into attacking toughness 3 units. "GREAT" you say! "I'll just swap to my 2 shots per guy!" But wait, a unit of 10 firing 20 shots at a unit of skeletons (can you get any more bog-standard than skellies??) will only kill 35 points of skeletons per turn on average... very very poor. Strength 3 is so bad! THEY ABSOLUTELY NEED WITHERING.
These guys are only worth investing in if you are A) Taking shadow lore to reduce the enemies toughness by D3 or B) know you're going up against an all cavalry list and are ok with the 5's to wound almost every cav model. Combined with shadow they can tear holes into Chaos warriors, Ironbreaker bunkers and even the likes of Mournfang and Demigryph Knights and that's when you'll earn their points cost back in one turn. Without Shadow lore? Good luck. 5's to wound means only 33% of your hits are gonna do anything and when you're firing 10 shots, that's very little. 2 Wounds per round of shooting unless you get lucky. But the chances of getting lucky are the same as the chances of getting unlucky, which means you could score only 1 wound or even none so don't rely on luck.
- On the other hand, they can also march block, fuck up War Machines and definitely be a nuisance. Oh and killing two T4 cavalry per turn DRASTICALLY reduces the effectiveness of the unit (Oh and you have 5 Chaos Knights? Hope 3 is okay). Never mind the number of armies that have T3, high armor cavalry (off the top of my head: Brettonia, High Elves, Dark Elves, Empire, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts. That's over 1/3rd of the armies, and of the ones that don't, one of them is you and another one doesn't have cavalry). Also, yeah, they won't earn their points back in one turn. Care to list all the units that will (here, I'll save you time: None. None in the game. [wildriders... every turn if you play them right, or to be fair if you're halfway competent]) But yeah, go ahead and assume they suck because you matched them against one thing and found them lacking.
Acorn of Ages
My advice is simply not to bother, and make use of the forests wood elves would otherwise not have. It is an Enchanted item which means you can give it to a Glade Lord as well as a Spell Weaver.
- Alternative Opinion on "Acorn of Ages": Most battlefields have 1-3 forests already present. Plus 0-2 buildings, 1-2 hills, & some random impassable terrain and/or walls. The battlefield will usually have 5-7 pieces floating around that will create bottlenecks and block Line of Sight. The Wood Elf ability to place an additional 2-4 Forests (which are nearly 10" wide) will further add to the difficulties your opponent will have moving around the battlefield. All forests should be Venom Thickets and when placed along the center of field with them staggered a bit to make sure some are in both halves of the table. The Dangerous Terrain tests are usually not that dangerous, but the randomness of the forest can throw an opponent off their game a bit and encourage mistakes. If you can get them to enter the forest at least partially or get just outside of it, then a charge by any of our units will be significantly more deadly with Poison attacks, extra ranks, & re-roll 1's to wound. Some games will see just 2 forests appear, but equally often you will drop 4 extra forests and completely choke the battlefield with dangerous forests. The best combination here is an avoidance list with Trueflight Arrows and some hard-hitting combat units that can take advantage of enemy units who get too close to our forests. A specialized item, but hardly overpriced or worthless. Coupled with a Moonstone character in a combat unit your army can re-deploy their best troops instantly to the other side of the battlefield for a surprise attack.
Whatever doesn't meet the quality criteria will be deleted? Yeah, I'm deleting that. Who elected you overlord of the Wood Elves tactica? Different opinions are healthy, especially since it's a book that just got updated so recently and so drastically. If you look at ANY other tactical write up on this site, you'll see multiple writers with different opinions, and the tacticas are better for it. Maybe someone will see potential you don't, or a combination you missed, or even just be better at Mathhammering. If you disagree, argue with them but don't delete it just because you don't like it.