Talk:Warhammer 40,000

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Alrighty, I am going to make a real article out of this page. If Skubmachine has a real page and this doesn't, something is wrong. NightRapier 03:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC) ># Zerg

I see what you did there. --Dunefag 01:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

>:3 NightRapier 01:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Anybody who reads the Tabletop section, feel free to correct mistakes or add anything that I *really* should have included. Booze+foggy rules memory is not a good combination. NightRapier 09:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

What the hell is Suavis Astartes? NightRapier 04:11, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The Candy Marines. Created at [1]. I'm half surprised nobody put in the Mole Marines. - Ahri 14:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

GASP! Niggerspam! D: --Anonykota 05:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Possible MISTAKE IN THE ARTICLE?[edit]

"...They can VOMIT ACID AT WILL. Once upon a time, weren't quite as hung up on the Emprah, and more informal. "

Doesn't that look inconsequent to you too? <-- I, ToFonikoAgouri, king of all that is newbish, wrote this

I'm not sure if "vomiting acid" is an accurate description but I'm pretty sure the Spess Mehreens have some glands that let them spit acid at things.
According to Index Astartes, Marine implants include an acid-producing gland; implantation point may differ from chapter to chapter from lower lip to trachea. So, whether it makes sense or not, it's fluff-accurate. Fatum 20:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
The old (1989) compendium says the acid is more like reptilian venom. It's useful for spitting into enemy eyes and allows marines to chew through iron restraints if given about an hour.

technically we can all vomit acid, at will all depends on how good you are at bulimia

Jubblowski[edit]

Why the fuck does Jubblowski not have her own page?

Why the fuck should she have one? Fatum 00:41, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Because if Ward gets one, so should she. --FlintTD 00:18, 27 September 2011 (PDT)

Where Should We Put This?[edit]

The interesting tidbit that GW kinda took some ideas from Laserburn. --FlintTD 00:18, 27 September 2011 (PDT)


Shadow Captain Korvydae from IA8[edit]

I don't see him in the tactica listing, he can bring assault marines as troops and must have a mandatory scout unit.
He is cheaper than a captain w the same gear though and seems like a bargain for what he does...

Space Wolves[edit]

The section as it stood completely ignored The Wolf King, Prospero Burns, and Betrayer, which all establish that Russ DOES feel guilt for what happened at Prospero/hates his job as executioner. It also ignores the lore in Inferno, which shows that the Rune Priests have some (cruch-supported) differences from everyone else's Librarians, that Nikea had more to do with concerns that Magnus specifically was out of control than all psykers, and that Russ made his Legion less savage and violent than it was when he found it. Russ' treatment of Magnus is still somewhat hypocritical, but it's ludicrous to pretend that Russ didn't have his reasons. Magnus straight-up made a deal with fucking Tzeentch and didn't see fit to tell the Emperor.

Well, nothing left to rant about, but psycho-conditioning. For it seems to me that attributing their "[advance] from living on Fenris, which doesn't even have gunpowder, to intelligently coordinating void wars and interplanetary conflicts while understanding the technology involved" to every fenrisian being some sort of an unsung genius, just waiting to be allow to spread his wings (cause lets face it: most modern people with all their knowledge base would be completely lost when thrust into similar circumstances, and we are speaking about 7-10 centuries vikings here) instead of a very convenient psycho-conditioning is giving the Wolves too much credit. But, as we do not know the full extent of such conditioning, it's hard to say for sure, as was noted. So unless you have some evidence to the contrary I don't know about - I would like to see it, with prooflinks. Oh, and Rune Priest being presented as apparently the only example of furry hypocrisy is rather misleading, so it's either the holy trinity of Russ (Rune Priests, wulfen and complete disregard for collateral damage, human lives included, outside of Logan Grimnar's direct line of sight) or none, leaving the reader to draw his own conclusions.

In terms of evidence, there are some passages in Inferno talking about how Russ and his Fenrisian Varagyr figure out what the hell's going on much sooner than could be expected. However, I don't feel like breaking copyright laws. And Logan Grimnar plainly is not the only Wolf who cares about collateral damage. At Thressiax, it was a pack of Bran Redmaw's Grey Hunters who defied direct orders to save the settlers from Tyranids, and Redmaw who promoted them to Wolf Guard, not Grimnar.

"I'll admit I was frustrated by your charming way of ignoring the established fluff that Russ and the Space Wolves aren't nearly as savage or barbaric as they appear. This isn't headcanon, it's Dan Abnett's writing."

Clearly, we have different definitions of 'savagery' and 'barbarity'.
The Space Wolves know how to think. Their encirclement tactics and obfuscation of stupidity are way beyond your average World Eater, and in terms of reacting on their feet they're much better than the Raven Guard or Emperor's Children. They don't just charge in screaming (once they make Grey Hunter/if they aren't Krom or Ragnar). They have a complex martial culture that celebrates heroism and encourages protection of the innocent. They're mildly superstitious but don't see the Emperor as a God. It's reductive to say they're screaming morons.

"I'm sure you're perfectly intelligent, but insisting that you know better than the rest of us isn't much better."

I do not. I am accustomed to different characters, fictional or otherwise, painting loyalists as "good" (*disgruntled noise*) and traitors as "bad" (*more of the same noise*), regardless of... anything, really. And this annoys me terribly, so I may be biased on this account.
You're right that that happens, but the Thousand Sons intended to raise all of humanity to a fully psychic race with or without their consent. In many ways, the 1kSons are the most sympathetic of the traitors, but that should be outlined in a Thousand Sons section, not expressed by shitting on the Wolves.

"The section as it stood completely ignored The Wolf King, Prospero Burns, and Betrayer, which all establish that Russ DOES feel guilt for what happened at Prospero/hates his job as executioner."

I recall Russ'... bemusement, shall we say, at his job, but guilt?! Apparently I didn't to that yet.
Remember his whole emo phase in The Wolf King? When he insists his conscience is clear? Reading between the lines, he's desperately trying to justify his actions. In Betrayer, it's pretty clear that he's telling Angron to knock off the ultraviolence so he doesn't have to kill him later.

"It also ignores the lore in Inferno, which shows that the Rune Priests have some (cruch-supported) differences from everyone else's Librarians, that Nikea had more to do with concerns that Magnus specifically was out of control than all psykers--"

And yet all psykers were censured. All but Rune Priest. That's hypocritical, for whatever 'differences' they may have, they don't make them any less psychic. Why weren't they censured (or why Magnus was not tutored, or otherwise helped by the Emperor, rather than thrown to the wolves (literally and figuratively) with the Emperors all-time favourite justification ("I DON'T TRUST YOU SO I AIN'T TELLING YOU SHIT.") is not in question here - why wolves believe it is justified, however, is.
The Wolves implicitly trust the Emperor, and what they knew was that the Emperor had given Magnus a direct order. There was significant precedent of the Emperor treating the Space Wolves as the exception to the rule, like letting the Fenrisians keep their superstitions and allowing them virtual independence before any other Legion. The Space Wolves see themselves as the only Legion that gets to cross any line to fight the Imperium's enemies (including, maybe, the two missing Legions). I'm not saying they're right about all this, it's the reasoning they're operating on.

"Russ' treatment of Magnus is still somewhat hypocritical, but it's ludicrous to pretend that Russ didn't have his reasons."

It is. However I must ask: were those reasons justified? Yeah, from our point of view we know that Magnus unwittingly dealt with daemons, but what about Russ? He did indeed had reasons... just like Lion did. And Horus. And Sanguinius. And fucking Lorgar. Yet all of them showed clemency and understanding (in case of Lion - to Russ himself, the irony) where Russ showed intolerance and hatred for no other reason than his unfounded (unlike Mortarion's, for example) prejudice.
You're right that every faction has reasons, but we don't see fit to shit on all of them all the time. Even, as you say, fucking Lorgar has his reasons. He showed intolerance because Magnus would abandon his allies, even letting Wolves die in A Thousand Sons, to pursue his psychic agenda.

"Magnus straight-up made a deal with fucking Tzeentch and didn't see fit to tell the Emperor."

'And thus his Father wrote in the skies in giant letters: "FUCK WITH THIS SHIT YOURSELF, MY SON."' Maybe that's why, not to mention that he didn't know what he was doing, acted out of desperation, and in the end it worked well enough, to his knowledge. Btw, while we're at it, why didn't Leman saw fit to inform the Emperor about the wulfen?..
We don't know whether or not he told the Emperor about the Wulfen, or how common they were pre-Heresy.

"Psycho-conditioning doesn't give you tactical know-how, and for that matter you could say the same thing about most chapters."

Doesn't it? Because Deathwatch supplement implies that it does, the Clockwork Orange way, at least. Indeed I could. And would. Am.
It gave me the impression that it focuses more on giving them nerves of steel than actual knowledge.

Should we add a "how to play step-by-step" topic to the page?[edit]

Many people come here for the lore, but maybe they are also interested in how to play the tabletop game. Should we add a "how to play step-by-step" topic to the page for those interested, or should create its own page? I'm asking because I have no idea how to play the basic game, so I can't really add this myself. Thanks in advance if someone makes it. --Alumno Alumno (talk) 08:37, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

I would vote no on that, most 40k rulebooks (in fact most warhammer rulebooks in general) have a condensed version of how to play the game in the back that tells you most of what you need to know, and I think outright telling people how to play the game when GW sells books on how to do so is crossing the line. -- Triacom (talk) 08:48, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
Why would it be crossing the line? We explain the lore of the game even though GW sells books that do that, we have the stats of many units even though GW sells books that do that too... --Alumno Alumno (talk) 10:21, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
What we do is not the same as outright removing the need to get the books. We have the lore in synopsis form but we do not take entire stories wholesale and upload the entire thing because that would get the wiki in legal trouble (as people found out when somebody decided to try that with the Last Church and GW came after the wiki), as such you still need to buy the books that are discussed here to get the full story. Likewise we also don't spell out how much every unit option costs and if you check talk pages you'll find that I was against listing points costs in general because it also makes it easy for the wiki to get in legal trouble. If we were to have a step-by-step guide on exactly how to play the game, it would be a copy-paste from the main rulebook (since anything short of that would just be a summary of the entire game and wouldn't shed any further light on how to play it) and GW's shown in the past they don't tolerate lifting stuff straight out of books. -- Triacom (talk) 10:34, 11 September 2018 (UTC)