Talk:Warhammer 40,000/Tactics/Cult Mechanicus(7E)

Cohort Mechanicus Questions

How exactly does the "can't take allies" feature of the cohort Mechanicus work? What the heck does the table mean in the zoomed out shot GW provided of the datasheet mean? --NewPhyrexian (talk) 01:13, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Can't take allies means exactly what it says, you cannot have Space Marines or the Inquisition fighting alongside the Cohort Mechanicus. The zoomed out table is a list of all of the units you need to take to be able to use this formation. -- Triacom (talk) 04:17, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

Clearly, I am not being clear. Let's focus on the allies question. Can you take other Skitarii and Cult Mech detachments and formations? --NewPhyrexian (talk) 06:01, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

While formations are specific detachments, you can still take more Cult Mech and Skitarii by including other formations/detachments (like the main detachment in the Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii book) as additional detachments of your main force (as they're technically not allies if that formation is your main detachment, meaning you can have two books that are both your main army), you can even make this an unbound force and take as many of the units from both books as you'd like. These extra units (the ones in additional detachments/the other unbound units) just won't benefit from the formation and cannot use the Cohort's units in their own formation/detachment total (as there's no detachment/formation overlap, page 118 of the rulebook says this), but you can still have the extra units form their own formation alongside the cohort (where naturally they receive the rules of whatever formation they're making). The only thing this formation is preventing you from taking is anybody outside of Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii. -- Triacom (talk) 03:57, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Ah, that makes sense. You can only take models with the cult mech/skit/no factions if you want to benefits of the formation. Regarding my second question. I am looking at the right side (formation models is on the left side in a grey background box) and seeing a Units? and Effects table. What does that table mean? --NewPhyrexian (talk) 14:47, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Exactly. The units required are on the left in the table, the effects this formation gives you are on the right (see the main page as to what they are). The table on the side just applies specific effects if certain conditions are fulfilled. If you want to know what those are then sadly I cannot help you myself as I have not read the formation datasheet, I've gotten information about it secondhand only and I've read all of the rules surrounding it (like the formations being different detachments and all the allies rules). -- Triacom (talk) 03:38, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Ah, so the exact rules knowledge are secondhand. It seems like the source for this is 4chan, and I kinda wish we had image support for the rumored rules. C'est la vie. --NewPhyrexian (talk) 14:44, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Someone on bolter and chainsword is claiming that the rumored rules aren't accurate. But fuck 'em unless they (or someone else) post good pics of the datasheet. --NewPhyrexian (talk) 00:45, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Those rules were most likely put online by somebody who has the datasheet, the only way to disprove it is to post a pic of the actual datasheet, in which case we get the full sheet rather than a text description and the page gets updated, there's no real downside. -- Triacom (talk) 02:11, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Exactly --NewPhyrexian (talk) 02:30, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

It seems like the actual rules have been spoilered (in image form no less). Is someone more familiar with playing Cult Mech up to rewriting the detachment part here.--NewPhyrexian (talk) 00:54, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Just going to drop this link here - http://www.spikeybits.com/2015/06/revealed-exclusive-cohort-mechanicus-formation.html which appears to (finally) be a better image of the formation, which mentions nothing about objective secured or allies, though the Imperatives and Canticles get boosts.

Layered Psalm Code

The warlord trait states that "Warlord and his unit always benefit from the highest level of effect of that Canticle." This, as written would make it seem that models without Canticles would (against the spirit of the rules) benefit from the Warlord trait's effect even when they normally would not benefit from the Canticle. Now let us look at the Canticles themselves. Each of them explicitly state that "Friendly Units with the Canticles of the Omnissiah special rule" get whatever benefit that comes from the Canticle. Therefor, the Techpriest Dominus and say a squad of Space Marines would benefit from the highest possible Canticle. However, since the Marine unit itself does not have the Canticles of the Omnissiah special rule: they do not benefit. They are given the chance but do not make the cut.--Naeondaemon (talk) 06:27, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for taking this to the comments section. As I have said before, the rules state that, "your warlord and his unit always benefit from the highest level of effect of that canticle..." I understand that the canticles all begin with "All friendly units with the canticles of the omnissiah special rule..." however that is not the origin of my dispute. I believe it is arguable that the effect could be either the full entry listed or only the rule(s) associated. You are correct in saying it goes against the sprit of a casual game, but under tournament circumstances it can be argued until such time as a FAQ is released.

• I apologize for the delay. I see what you are saying and would agree with you; however, if you look at the canticles chart: each one has two parts units and EFFECT. Under effect, lies the entire section which does specify "units with the Canticles..." To ignore that section requires very selective reading and only the most gullible and inattentive would let that slide by. That said, we should keep your caveat that you added on the tactics page and let the readers decide for themselves which interpretation they will go with. Sound good?--Naeondaemon (talk) 09:01, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
• Thank you, yes.

Canticles of the Archmagos

So are these additional canticles of the omnissiah that you can only use with Belisarius Cawl that happen to also affect nearby Armies of the Imperium vehicles? Or are they their own things? The wording is kind of vague for me on that point.--Naeondaemon (talk) 23:23, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

These are additional Canticles that you can only use if Belisarius Cawl is on the battlefield, and they also happen to affect nearby Armies of the Imperium vehicles. -- Triacom (talk) 03:29, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

You have my thanks.--Naeondaemon (talk) 03:33, 3 February 2017 (UTC)