Talk:Warhammer 40,000/Tactics/Orks(8E)

From 1d4chan

Hey there folks! Noticed that the page for Warhammer 40,000/Tactics/Orks(8E) is relatively empty, and have decided that something about this must be done! This will be my first time attempting to edit or write anything on this scale, so please be sure to rectify any errors that you may spot when reading this! -- Orkus3372 1:58 AM June 6th, 2017


NeweFag, I wouldn't post things about codex rumours. Nothing's set in stone.

Rumors? GW was the one who announced it. [1] Newerfag (talk) 19:25, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

VeryIntelligentShadeOfTheColourBlue (talk): Just some guy who didn't like wishlist's it seems, although you are entitled to undo it but the wish list section was beginning to get incredibly messy. Best thing to do would be to restart the list, chances are whoever made the edit won't even look at the page again anyway.

Guys, this is tactics, not "our wishlist for the new codex". Whoever did this did a good job, and there is no need to create this entry on the tactics page.--Flutist (talk) 18:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
  • Maybe there should be another separate page/topic dedicated to wishlisting. If there is somebody place link here and in tactics article.

Mob Rule[edit]

"Do note: units get the leadership CHARACTERISTIC of nearby units, not their actual leadership. So no giving ld 30 to a nearby 5-man burna squad."

I think you can read Mob Rule to do exactly that though - both parts of it mention the leadership characteristic, so it only depends on whether or not you can chain the two parts of the ability together - i.e. using your model count as your leadership characteristic on a mob of 30 boyz, making their Ld30, and using the leadership characteristic of a unit within 6". If you can chain them then you can spread Ld30 to everything within 6" of a boyz mob. In my opinion this it both the intent of the rule, and fluff-accurate. Why would 5 Burna Boyz standing in amongst 30 other Orks not be as fearless as they are?
The direct quote is "can use the number of models in it as their leadership characteristic" (emphasis mine). My contention is that it says "as their Leadership" not "instead of their Leadership", meaning that the increased value becomes/replaces their existing Leadership characteristic and is therefore inheritable by nearby units through the second half of Mob Rule.--PercussiveMaintenance (talk) 12:07, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
  • There is another meta thing to consider. If red as using basic Ld second part has little impact on the game and severly nerfs any chance of actually using any kind of units other than single models (who does not care anyway) or big mobz of 30 boyz/stormboyz. And that would be bad as we are already suffering in elite units department as most small count units have massive problems with eithe rcost effectiveness or both (looking at you Warbikers/Warbiker Nobz/Burnas).

Please for the love of Mork and Gork, we don't need all of these "Doesn't have Mob Rule" clauses on single model Vehicles! Lack of Mob Rule is always irrelevant for these models. They aren't going to buff a Boyz squad and don't need leadership buffing. I'm gonna systematically remove all of those notes, except for when vehicle models are in a squad, like Killa Kanz. Deff Dreads and Buggies don't count anymore because they seperate to units of one after deployment.--Donteatrawhagis (talk) 14:15, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Bubblechukka[edit]

Do you get to roll the dice for the Bubblechukka before or after target selection? The Bubblechukka's text says "Roll 4 dice each time you fire this weapon" (emphasis mine). The core book says the order for shooting is to:

  • 1. Pick the unit,
  • 2. Pick the target,
  • 3. Pick the weapon,
  • 4. Resolve the attacks.

Now if the word "fire" in the Bubblechukka's text refers to the point in time at which the shot occurs then that's step 4, after you've picked the target, which occurs in step 2. If "fire" refers to the point at which you select the Bubblechukka as the weapon to be shot, that's still after you've picked a target (step 3 is choosing the weapon, step 2 is picking the target). The only way in which the Bubblechukka gets to roll its dice before you a select a unit is if you interpret the word "fire" in its instructions as step 1, the point at which you select the unit that's shooting. I see that as a shaky interpretation, because I feel that the word "fire" is much more likely to be referring to step 4 (i.e. the point at which the shot occurs) than it is to step 1 (the point at which Mek Gunz are chosen as the shooting unit). --HeadChime (talk) 10:09, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll fess up to this one as I wrote that part, and it's incorrect. I read the 'fire the weapon' part as setting it at step 1 because I'd forgotten that it's weapons that fire now, not the units holding them; i.e. you don't pick the Mek Gun with the Bubblechukka, then select a target - you pick the Mek Gun, then pick a target, then fire the Bubblechukka. You do roll the dice for its stats before you get to the "resolve the attacks" part though, has to happen there as one of the things you're setting is the rate of Fire, which is used at the beginning of step 4. --PercussiveMaintenance (talk) 15:11, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Missing units[edit]

I'm noticing a bunch of missing stuff, primarily stuff like the Kustom Battle Fortress and the Flakk Trukk. Are these just gone forever now? Moonsaves (talk) 09:24, 11 July 2017 (UTC) - (21/1/18) KBF and Mega Dred have no rules currently (other than count as similar), you can add flak guns to big trakk from IA, but not an ordinary trukk.

They're certainly not in the index, but I don't have imperial armour so I'm not sure if they're featured in the Forgeworld range or not. --HeadChime (talk) 10:09, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

They've stated in the recent FAQ that at least the Mega Dread and the KBF will be getting rules, so at least there's that. I'd like my Gun Trukks, but I'll take this over nothing Moonsaves (talk) 23:04, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I have the Imperial Armor. Kustom Battle Fortress and Gun Trukks are missing. Currently the only thing we have near to Gun Trukks are Big Trakks, which got all of the Gun Trukk weapons (if they didn't have them already). I dearly miss my Kill Krusha... --FlintTD (talk) 20:25, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

  • Stats for several units like Battlefortress and Grot bomms and such are aviable now but only in open play, no point values :(. Also there are several things still missing.

Warbiker Nobz[edit]

Can someone explain to me the section on these guys? I fail to understand why they are "very squishy" (with T5, W3 and a 4+ save they seem alright to me) and why infantry units will destroy them

So, two things from what Ive garnered on why they're squishy:

1: They cost a buttload of points. 42 each, too be exact. And if you send in a Nob in with just a choppa its kind of a waste. So we'll throw on +7 more for the Big Choppas. (Preferably youd have Pks, but we'll try to keep the points as low as possible.) Thats 49 points to get a nob basically kitted out. Thats 49 points for a T5 W3 4+ unit that deals 3 S7 AP -1 D2 attacks on 3+ per turn. Compare this too a single Adeptus Custodes trooper, who for only 3 points is a T5 W3 2+ 5++ Unit that has 3 S6 AP -2 D3 attacks on a 2+ per turn. While you could argue that the movement speed makes up for the lack of armor/lesser damage, Its pretty clear that in a points-for-points matchup the Custodian wins

2: Things just die easy in 8th edition. Ive seen units of Imperial Guardsmen flashlight Stompas to death. And since the biker don't hit that crucial T6 mark, thats a 5+ to wound, which means 2x the amount of wounds going against that armor save which, again, is only a 4+. Also, AP is REALLY easy to come by this edition. At least, for other armies.

  • They are squishy becouse they are massively overpriced and lack anything other than T and 4+ save that is easily negatet (or nerfed to a pint of not mettering much) by even realively low AP weapons, and there is no shortage of high S weapons as well. Yes you can boost them with KFF mek or painboy on a bike but that massively increases their aleady outrageous price. On top of that multiwound weapons are quite common in 8th wich makes keepeing them on the table that much more problematic. For their price they have very limited number of high S attacks so if facing any kind of infantry they are likely not killing all of them and due to low modrel number you will loose significant portion of the unit even to most basic attacks. They cannot also preform well as a gun platform becouse of orky BS of 5+ and adding kombi scorchas increase their outrageous cost even more. They could work well if they gained some kind of significant inv save (smoke cloud anyone?). Cybork body is so bad it can be ommited in this calculations.

Clean Up Effort[edit]

Once the 8th Ed Codex drops this page needs a huge clean up. Proposed changes? Delete stuff that gets FAQ'd and stop slashing out stuff that's wrong instead of overwriting it. -- Concerned Ork

If by slashes you mean strike throughs, then they shouldn't be on the page at all. --2001:8003:3895:3A00:B099:F7C1:5063:F4FC 01:39, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
To add, I'm having a tough time cleaning out a lot of bad and unneccesary edits right now. Examples - "And there is actually no upper limit of PL to use it with 2cp version." , "This makes tankbustas more orky actually as you want them to get close and personal instead of riding in vechicle and shooting stuff from afar. With this stuff at 6” maxed squad of tankbustas is able to destroy landraider in 1 turn." and "Orks got ton of ways to deestrike - setting up say Gorkanaut with 3 meganobz inside is scary indeed when they appear 9” from enemy turn 2.". I know part of my job is to edit this stuff into a legiable format, but this looks like we've suddenly been flooded under a sea of bad writing.--86.9.123.204 21:22, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
I've been trying to help in that regards as well. A lot of language is very specific to the start of 8th/Index Specific, "Additionally" is being used far too frequently, and a lot of language is duplicated; such as the tankbusta section I updated. The biggest issue is going to be all the MATHHAMMER. Unless someone is going to update the match all it should be removed. If we add them back we should put a little citation for when they were created. I feel sorry for the people who did all that effort, but the codex has changed a lot. -- Concerned Ork.
I'm taking an axe to a lot of the nonsense, repeats of the same info in a single entry and all back and forth, that's what the talk page is for.

Terms and phrasing that should be removed from the page(Note - None of this is about removing jokes or humor) (Let the Salt Flow):

  • Anything referring to the Codex as New and Changes: Examples; "Brand new Codex...", "No longer has...", "once again...", etc... These don't add anything, we aren't talking about how good/bad something was we are talking about the current meta. For Mork's sake people. It's not "Ork Boyz are now 7 points" its "Ork Boyz are 7 points." keep the language current.
  • Going into too much detail about a simple mechanic: Damn, how many times do people feel its necessary to drag out a simple mechanic like the Kustom Force Field.
  • Being upset that Single Model Vehicle Units Don't get Mob Rule: Man, it sucks that Morkanauts don't get Mob rule?... Why? They don't make Leadership checks. The only unit this can be said as a detriment about is Killa Kanz and their zoggin Grots and don't get Mob Rule anyway.
  • Drawn out Language: The following statement from the Grots entry "Runtherds are near-compulsory if you want them to last more than a single turn" can be condensed down to "Runtherds are necessary to keep them alive". Same information in a shorter blurb.

--Donteatrawhagis (talk) 14:22, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Right now I'm working on making an AoS first edition page, but after that, I'll be free to go through the article and clean up a tad. edit: I removed all unnecessary mention of the codex and tried to simplify language. Will come back later for more.--Kracked Mynd (talk) 16:28, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Wholeheartedly agreed, will condense & format information and bullet points, and remove redundancy. But I will include gimmicks :^) Zerghalo2 (talk) 18:08, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I've finally unlocked the arcane art of collapsing text so if need be we can condense arguments, alternate takes, mathhammer tables and other in depth shit, like say what kulturs benefit units most et al. Delvin (talk) 18:36, 17 December 2018 (UTC)


Reeeeeeeee. The charge table is beyond good, it's PARAMOUNT. Orks are all about the charge, with a reroll buff literally nobody else gets. It should be there; if anyone thinks faction-specific information adds bloat, I propose a compromise: to hide the table behind an <expand>. Zerghalo2 (talk) 07:42, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

The charge table can easily be summed up by saying something like this: "The re-roll means you'll be able to land a successful charge even at 9" over half the time, while anything less are near guarantees of making it into combat. Don't count on it to make those 10" and further charges though." The table by itself adds nothing and gives no advice, it's the exact same thing as unit descriptors who just repeat information you already know because you've got the book right in front of you. -- Triacom (talk) 14:57, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Lootas are Good, fight me[edit]

I don't see why there is a lot of Loota hate. Especially with people pointing to them being not as good as Tankbustas or Flash Gits. They have arguably won me games and have taken out Knights and elite infantry more times than I can count. Recently I listened to the Chapter Tactics Podcast #90 and the person who won Renegade Open 2018 won because of his Lootas. Even with d3 shots being unreliable they are dangerous, especially with a CP to reroll that dreaded 1 shot. Why all the hate? They seem to be Orks MVP. --Donteatrawhagis (talk) 16:48, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

A: Flash Gitz have cooler models. Technically subjective, but, cmon. Fucking Ork Pirates yo. B: The d3 shots is still d3 shots vs the Flash gitz 3. Plus, Flash gitz hit on 4's

Cool models, but not as good in other regards. Threat Range: A Loota squad has 48 inch threat range while Flash Gitz have 24. Squad Size: For 300pts you get 10 Flash Gitz (2 Wounds per), for 255pts you get 15 Lootas (1 wounds per). Shooting Wise: On average you will get 15 Hits from 10 Flash Gitz(10 if they moved which they probably will at 24 inch range) and Lootas will get on average(2 on 1d3 shots) 10 Hits from 15 Lootas(5 Hits if they move which they probably won't). Lack of Clan Kulture: Flash Gitz can't use the Bad Moons or other Clan cultures which will boost shooting. My Conclusion: Why pay 45 more points for a medium range gun platform when long range is more beneficial? Perhaps there are more firing lanes in my meta. I didn't factor in Gun Crazy Show Offs into my calculations because roll a 6 on 1d6 is a lot less reliable, its likelihood of happening is about once per game. I would replace other medium range shooting in Orks with Flash Gitz, but that would be Shoota Boyz not Lootas. --Donteatrawhagis (talk) 14:30, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Dakka Dakka Dakka, Multiple Weapon Profiles, and the FAQ[edit]

The Dakka! Dakka! Dakka! section under Special Rules has points that the generated bonus hit can be used to generate hits for other weapon profiles, but the new Ork Codex FAQ came out with this ruling against that for the Goff's melee-ability clone of DDD:

Q: If a Goff Gorkanaut attacks a unit with the Crush profile of the Klaw of Gork (or possibly Mork), and the unmodified hit roll is a 6 (allowing him to make an extra hit roll with the Klaw due to the No Mukkin’ About kultur), does the extra hit roll have to be made using the same profile, or can it be made with the weapon’s other profile instead? A: The extra hit roll is made using the same profile.

DDD and the Goff trait have the same language and DDD's wording also says that bonus hits MUST use the same characteristics of the generating hit in the case of randomized stat weapons (Bubblechukka). Given these two things, we can assume that bonus hits from DDD must use the same weapon profile as the hit that generated the bonus attack. This may still be RAI vs RAW, but GW's intent is very clear.

Intent seems clear. Regardless if the weapon profile has random statistics the extra attacks generated act as additional shots from that weapon using its profile. So if a Shokk Attack Gun with 2d6 S rolled a 2 for S, but they got a 6 to generate an extra attack that extra attack would still be at S2. Similarly if you use a Kombi-Rokkit, any Rokkit that generates an extra attack cannot be used for the Shoota profile or vice versa. --Donteatrawhagis (talk) 14:11, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Table[edit]

Whoever made this table. Although I like Smasha Guns myself, please adjust it so it accounts for invulnerable saves and to-hit debuffs so as not to mislead the reader. Smasha Guns get a decent chunk of those kills by say moving a 5+ save to a 7+ save which doesn’t always happen and Traktor Cannons only start to shine when to-hit debuffs are involved. - Somebody who doesn't know what "TALK PAGE" means.

  • I won't bother in making another table, but I will tell you that if the target relies on an Inv. Save then the KMK is better than the Smasha Gun against T8+ (but still inferior against any lower T), the rest of the Guns are still inferior to the Smasha Gun in every situation. Regarding to hit penalties you just have to multiply the damage output by 2/3 if you get a -1 or by 1/3 if you get a -2 or more (note that the column 5 already has a -1 to hit penalty, so if you get any extra penalty, you will have to multiply the damage by 1/2 for this column). Of course, the Traktor Kanon line is unaffected by this. Factoring this, you will see that the Smasha Gun is still superior against everything except Flyers when an extra -1 to hit is applied (Traktor Kannon gets ahead against Flyers) and when a -2 or more is applied then the Traktor Kannon is better than the Smasha Gun in some other situations. So, unless you are taking Mek/Big Guns ONLY to kill Flyers with a -2 to hit penalty you will still want to take Smasha Guns (or KMKs if you face A LOT of T8 with Inv. enemies). But seriously, take Smasha Guns, there are very few cases in which they get outperformed, have better Range than the KMK and in most situations they will deal way more damage than any other Gun yet being the most flexible of all. - Another anon who has no clue what "TALK PAGE" means.

Wargear listing of unit-specifics & Redundancy[edit]

This isn't a codex re-write. It's a tactics page; it says what you can do, or how you should use the things found in the Codex, Index, IA Xenos and FAQs all in one place for convenience. But why are you writing unit-exclusive wargear in the Common Wargear lists? Like "Da Vulcha's Klaw: Zagstruck's legs"...and then you have to write it again on Zagstruck's entry because he's the only dude who can bring Da Vulcha's Klaw!. Not to mention it says nothing about tactics. "This weapon has this stats" is info you can read on the unit's entry, let alone on the source material. I will eliminate redundant entries / transfer the tactica to the units' entry unless given a convincing argument. Zerghalo2 (talk) 18:05, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

This always happens whenever a new tactics page gets made or a new codex comes out, then I or somebody else will slap the cleanup tag over it, and then need to get to it later since going over everything takes forever. Right now though I'm going to be working on the Chaos Space Marine page as shit like that should never have been tolerated (check out the Sonic Dreadnought entry). -- Triacom (talk) 19:29, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
So should we remove the Wargear entries and place them in the wargear to the Unit ones? --Donteatrawhagis (talk) 14:52, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
No. Listing what wargear a unit has is pointless since it's useless info that doesn't tell the person what's good, what isn't and how to use them best. That info is usually listed after any description which means the entire description of the wargear in that unit's entry can be deleted. -- Triacom (talk) 15:02, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Honestly I think listing the wargear is pretty pointless in general since the vast majority of it is stating what it does, aka you're telling the player what they already know since they already have the book, how is that useful? -- Triacom (talk) 15:15, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
I would say it is for people who dont play the army but want to know what the stats of the weapons are.Just L (talk) 19:53, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Those people should really look up the rules then, knowing the stats of a weapon is hardly helpful if you don't know who can take it, or if there's unit-specific/faction-specific rules that boost the unit taking it or special stratagems that boost them. I honestly can't think of how we'd help those people without just handing them the full codex. -- Triacom (talk) 21:40, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Expands could be hiding errors[edit]

I'm worried that the expands are hiding errors from review. Seems like a lot of them popped up recently and the Dakka Dakka one says you can use it to get extra attacks with your Kombi-Rokkit... That doesn't sound right.

The whole page is a mess that I'd like to get to but don't have the time right now. The expands bits are almost entirely unnecessary while the majority (if not all) of the tables are useless when you could just mention the results, and that's if the tables didn't do what they did in the past and include more guns than you can legally field due to the rule of 3 in an attempt to try and compare them "fairly". -- Triacom (talk) 19:06, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
The Expands were just an attempt to reduce clutter and nonsense without a major rewrite or simply axing the "alternate take"s; I can't tell what is bantz from useful sidenotes. --Delvin (talk) 08:48, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
The expands are hiding the actual information that you'd want to come to a tactica for, and if there's too many alternate takes than all that means is that something or somebody fucked up somewhere and that section needs a rewrite. As it is there's a ton here that could easily be summed up in one sentence and does not need a table to break it down. That kind of raw information isn't helpful when you should be summing up what is good/bad about a unit and its overall performance. -- Triacom (talk) 13:45, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
There is a lot of redundancy out there that needs to be removed. The expands keep that information being out there. Too many people can't be held to a standard and use expands correctly. --Donteatrawhagis (talk) 21:07, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Should we remove weapon profiles from Unit entries?[edit]

Weapon profiles are already listed in the wargear entry. My proposal, remove them from the Unit entries and instead write more specific tips. Such as for Ork Boyz with "Choppa/Sluggas - Great choice for melee, best with Goffs. Synergize with Waaagh Banner to buff their WS and other ways to get extra attacks such as Ghaz and Weirdboy with Warpath." and "Shootas - If you are in range to shoot with a shoota you can just as easily charge with a Choppa. Bad Moon's clan trait boosts its effectiveness." Thoughts? --Donteatrawhagis (talk) 14:25, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Honestly I think we should remove both those and the wargear entries period. There's nothing they offer that isn't stated by the unit entries themselves, and stating what the unit comes equipped with is pretty pointless for anyone who actually has the book (which should be everyone using this tactica). Removing the wargear from the unit entries is something I've already done on the Chaos Space Marine tactics page and in doing so, nearly cut the size of the page in half. -- Triacom (talk) 17:13, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

TL:DR synopsis?[edit]

Going through a bunch of the units it seems like we could boil down units to a few keywords to describe what they do. Think of it as a Too Long Didn't Read version. Examples:

  • Boyz - Anti-Infantry Melee unit. Has objective Secure.
  • Grots - Bubblewrap for better units, especially with Grot Shields .
  • Nobz - Anti-Infantry Melee unit, Big Choppas are Anti-MEQ and Power Klaws are Anti-TEQ.
  • Meganobz - Anti-Vehicle Melee unit.
  • Kommandos - Deep Striking Objective Grabbers.
  • Lootas - Long Range Anti-Heavy Infantry and Anti-Light vehicles.
  • Burnas - Anti-Horde at range, Anti-MEQ in melee.
  • Warbikes - Fast moving Objective Grabbers.
  • Stormboyz - Deep Striking anti-Infantry.

etc...

Does this help simplify the tactica? This would only replace long winded descriptions. Terms I'm looking at are Melee vs Ranged, Anti-Infantry vs Vehicle, Fast Moving vs Deepstriking, Objective Grabber vs Distraction. Any other terms we should use?--Donteatrawhagis (talk) 15:27, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Long winded descriptions about what the unit has are useless to anyone who has a book because they can see that already, but you shouldn't cut out too much or else you lose good ideas on how to use them, here's an example with a current version compared to a possible future version:
  • Boyz: 7 points per model. They hit on a 3+ and S4 in Melee. Sadly, they have 5 inches of movement. Mob Rule makes Morale checks easy to pass, max sized mobs will ignore morale until 15 Boyz die. Ork Boyz are fragile so make sure they attack first by charging and using Counter Offensive Stratagem. Ork Boyz' special rule Green Tide boosts big mobs, giving +1 Attack if the Boy mob in question numbers 20 models or more. In short, the only reason not to run your Boyz in mobs of 30 is when you want to put them in a Battlewagon or Trukk.
  • How To Get 3+ Saves: By using the "Loot it" and "Ard Boyz" strategem on a big unit of Blood Axe Boyz you can have a unit of ladz with a 3+ to shooting from things 18" away and a 4+ any other time. Effective? Debatable. Fun? Sure thing!
  • Every ten Boyz one can take a Tankbusta Bomb.
  • Sluggaz and Choppas: Pistols for everyone! And, of course, 3 S4 attacks per model (4 if the mob has at least 20 Boyz) with WS3+. Many ways to buff the amount of attacks (Ghazgkull, WAAAGH! Banner, Weirdboyz, Klan Traits). This is key to most ork lists.
  • Shootas: Instead of Choppa/Slugga you get 2A 18" shoota, losing +1 A in melee.
That's the current version, here's what I'd recommend instead:
  • Boyz: Ork Boyz are fragile so make sure they attack first by charging and using Counter Offensive Stratagem, and if you're going to be charging in make sure to take a lot so you don't have to worry about Morale. With the rule of three it isn't worth it to go with smaller unit sizes in an attempt to spam them unless you want a few dirt cheap ObSec units (and/or want to use the Trukk) and their Green Tide boosts big mobs anyway, giving +1 Attack if the Boy mob in question numbers 20 models or more. Stick with the Sluggaz and Choppas, if you want more ranged firepower you'll find other units can do it better.
I've left the table out entirely because it's also useless information that doesn't help the article, since you can sum up the end result in the entry itself. -- Triacom (talk) 18:32, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Maybe make it "snappier".

  • Boyz: Best taken as huge pseudo-fearless mob for the Green Tide +1 A while above 20 boys or minimum sized Objective holders.
    • Mob Up strategem let's you fuse ≤10-boy mobs with adjacent large ≥10-boy mobs for even bigger and killyer Green Tide mobs).
Get your Green Tide mobstuck in fast as even lasguns will tear chunks outta them quickly taking away your 20+ bonus.
Choppas and sluggas are the better loadout for tide mobs, Objective holders can go either way, don't forget your free Tankbusta Bombs on either one.

--Delvin (talk) 22:07, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Making it too snappy and you make it too fragmented and you don't provide enough info on what to watch out for, take your suggestion for example: "Best taken as huge pseudo-fearless mob for the Green Tide +1 A while above 20 boys or minimum sized Objective holders." Why is this the case? Oh, it's on the third paragraph, after telling you about Mob Up without mentioning why or when you'd want want to use it. It also doesn't mention what size you should have objective holder boyz at or that you can fit smaller ones in a trukk. -- Triacom (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Armouries on the various army pages.[edit]

This is mostly a repost of a question I had on the main tactics page, but I'll be posting it on all the most frequently updated tacticas because it applies to all of them and I'd like to hear any arguments against it.

I've been wondering this for a while now, but what do the armoury sections add that cannot be covered by unit entries? Everything in them is either stating info that is obvious and redundant to anyone holding the relevant book (which are the people using the tactica in the first place), or it's insight that is restated in the unit entry itself, where it's actually relevant. I get why we list relics since those are usually unique to the army and can be applies to a ton of different characters for different builds, same with Warlord Traits, and both of those are usually not covered in the various unit entries, instead that advice is usually covered in the relic and traits sections which makes sense. But for the regular armouries I'm not really seeing why we keep them around at all to be honest, since they take up so much space and it's annoying to scroll past that kind of bloat. How should we improve them, if possible (so that they're not just restating profiles) or should we just remove them? Personally I'm leaning more towards getting rid of them entirely. -- Triacom (talk) 18:51, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

I'd rather get rid of them, most of the time a rokkit's worth is gonna be different for the unit entries. For instance a tankbusta will get more bang for the buck with a rokkit launcha than a deff dread or boyz squad. --Donteatrawhagis (talk) 13:08, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Help me understand what the author is saying here, because it doesn't seem to make sense[edit]

Bad Moonz - ARMED TO DA TEEF: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 in the shooting phase. Helps avoid plasma overheat, useful for any range based army - especially for Lootas. Stacked with your standard ability to have shots explode, your ranged attacks now have roughly a 50/36 (actually 50.17/36) multiplier compared to what their BS looks like at a glance (and 43/36 of what it really is for any Ork), which is just over a third again as effective. This is still not enough to bring BS5+ up to being equivalent to BS4+, but it does act as a flat multiplier, regardless of underlying BS.

I don't get it. In most discussions of dice rolling, we should be talking about odds and percentages. When the author says "50/36 multiplier" what the heck does he mean? He doesn't seem to be referring to the percentage of hits for the number of dice rolled.

Is this just a badly worded section?

A standard way to do mathhammer is to use divisions of 36, because the chance to hit is #/6 and to wound is #/6. Hence A percentage of #/36. Thus, 50/36 multiplier = 50/36% or 138.89% --203.40.137.232 15:36, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
It's badly worded, mentioning that kind of math/percentages is useless without putting it in context and when you do put it in context to something like BS4+, you would be better off deleting the longer explanation since it offers nothing valuable. As an example, the part you quote can be cut down to your ranged attacks are just over a third again as effective, but this is still not enough to bring BS5+ up to being equivalent to BS4+. -- Triacom (talk) 19:05, 12 December 2019 (UTC)