Talk:Warhammer 40,000/Tactics/Talons of the Emperor (30k)

GaryGibbon (talk) 10:13, 12 January 2017 (UTC)Should we post what little information we know regarding the Custodes Contemptor Dread, speeder and grav-Rhino, or wait until we receive proper statlines for these units?

Regarding the Sagittarum Adrastus Bolt Caliver's Disintegration Beam not being one-shot. Check below.

Weapon rules

--Fluff- and Grammarlord (talk) 08:20, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Misericordia

Guys, I need help. My emails are ignored by Forgeworld for some reason, and I don't trust Facebook after explaining basic rulebook principles instead of recieving explanation on FW rules 2 last times. Can anybody write FW about what Misericordia is and post the answer here? Pretty please, with sugar --Flutist (talk) 21:00, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Valdor vs Tribune

I may be a filthy casual, but I'm not sure why the Tribune is better than Valdor? Valdor has (slightly) superior stats, a better spear than the Paragon, and a bunch of unique special rules besides. It seems fairly clear-cut to me, but the page says Valdor is less OP but more flexible than the Tribune. Wouldn't Valdor utterly smash a Tribune? Just like Scoria, Leman Russ, Horus and probably a number of other Primarchs?

Feel free to correct me, but please be thorough - It's always fun to read about mathhammer :)

I'm not too sure who wrote that. Valdor and the Tribune are both good and can both handle the same threats, they just do it in different ways. If you're curious how they fare in a duel (naturally with the Tribune all maxed out), Valdor will kill the Tribune in 5 rounds, just before the Tribune could kill him in return since the Tribune would be using a Solerite gauntlet (nothing else can chew through Valdor's 5 Wounds fast enough). Molecular Severance is brutal (and is the primary reason he can win) however even though he lacks Valdor's extra Wound the Tribune is more durable (which I'll get into in just a second).

The Tribune will outright dominate everyone who has T5 or less and lacks Eternal Warrior due to the fact that his 5 attacks can hit at S10, AP1. Even ones who have higher Toughness/Eternal Warrior he'll still win against since he'll grind them them down while Valdor will either grind them down quicker, or ID them. Against T5 targets the Tribune only needs a single Wound to cause Instant Death, as opposed to Valdor who not only needs a Wound, but then needs another roll on top of that. Even though successful Invuln saves must be re-rolled this still leads to fewer ID's than the Tribune against those targets. The Tribune also has a re-rollable 3+ Invuln save which, combined with his fist, means he can beat a number of Primarchs currently in the game, whereas Valdor will struggle with them (yes, the Tribune beats Primarchs, loses to Valdor, who in turn struggles against Primarchs). The re-roll for his Invuln is really what sets him apart, as it makes him nearly unkillable in melee (this combined with the fist is why people are saying he's OP) unless he's fighting somebody like Valdor, who can turn his successful rolls into failed ones.

In short they're both Killy, Dead 'Ard and are pretty much equal on the battlefield (without one being outright better than the other) with the main difference being Valdor's more Killy, Tribune's more 'Ard and when the Tribune's maxed out they're almost equal in price too. -- Triacom (talk) 05:43, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

You know what, here's the mathematical breakdown on Valdor vs the Tribune:

For this matchup we're going to buy the Tribune Digital Lasers, a Cyber-familiar, a Praesidium Shield and a Solerite Power Gauntlet (also melta bombs to make his points and Valdor's points exactly equal).

Valdor hits 4.667 times (getting 5 attacks normally, +1 for Digital Lasers, +1 for Lightning Blows), Wounds 3.111 times and causes 1.037 Unsaved Wounds. My math was slightly off earlier because I forgot about lightning blows and digital weapons, so Valdor will kill the Tribune in 4 rounds, not 5.

Tribune hits 3.25 times (+1 for Digital Lasers and an additional bit thanks to Master-crafted), Wounds 2.817 times, causing 1.408 Unsaved Wounds. This means that it also takes the Tribune 4 rounds to kill Valdor, not 5. However Valdor's weapon is not Unwieldy, which allows him to kill the Tribune before dying himself. Even if the fist wasn't Unwieldy however Valdor would still strike first as Valdor receives the benefits of Preturnatural Skill, whereas the Tribune does not.

So there you have it, Valdor firmly beats down the tribune in a one-on-one fight. As another point on their offense vs defence argument, Valdor's yet another character that doesn't stand a chance against Jain Zar, while the Tribune has no problems in crushing her. He only loses 2.42 Wounds before he kills her, although it does take him 14 rounds to do so which I blame entirely on Jain Zar being a bullshit overpowered character. Yes, even more overpowered than the Tribune partially because of how broken Disabling Strike is and partially because she costs a hell of a lot less than he does at that point, and she's also a full 75 points less than both Valdor and the Tribune. -- Triacom (talk) 10:59, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

You have done well, my faithful servant. I've trusted you to find me the most useful information this list has to offer, and you've succeeded. I approve of your selection, Triacom. Behold the greatest sacrifice of our age! Triacom the user is no more. Henceforth, he shall always, and only ever be, Triacom - the Hero!

Seriously though, thanks a bunch. I'm really interested in 30K but rules-wise it's kind of intimidating to do anything really interesting with any of the lists I'm interested in playing. I don't know if that's the case with anyone else, but regardless I'm sure your text will help to clear things up for others, too. This is pretty much how I envisioned ALL the talk-pages would look, in my innocent youth.

I skimmed the Hetaeron and Aquillon, and there seems to be some overlap with what you wrote for the Tribune and Valdor. The Hetaeron are/seem to be more flexible, and potentially less durable - they have a wound on the Aquillon, but have to buy their own Solerite gauntlets. However, they have access to Praesidium Shields, which really makes them a superior choice for melee combat. Conversivly, the Aquillon are 20pts cheaper than Hetaeron with gauntlets/shields, and have access to some pretty devastating ranged weapons. I'm leaning towards a small unit of loaded-up Hetaeron for the removal of TEQ and Characters and Aquillon with firepikes for tarpits, probably with solerite power talons rather than gauntlets. Maybe with tele-transponders for maximum ease of positioning, depending on unit size? I'm thinking neither unit really needs a character in it to crush most things they're going to run into, and a Shield-Captain, Tribune or Valdor might go better in a large-ish unit of Custodian/Sentinel Guard.

It seems that your calculations are incorrect, they don't take into account the -1 to hit suffered by Valdor because of the tribune's Praesidium shield (unless I missed some update about the rules, in which case I apologize to the mighty Triacom). The breakdown should be :

Valdor hits 3.5 (getting 5 attacks normally, +1 for Digital Lasers, +1 for Lightning Blows), Wounds 2.333 times and causes 0.778 Unsaved Wounds, so Valdor will kill the Tribune in 5.14 turns.

Tribune hits 3.25 times (+1 for Digital Lasers and an additional bit thanks to Master-crafted), Wounds 2.817 times, causing 1.408 Unsaved Wounds, meaning that it takes the Tribune 3.55 rounds to kill Valdor.

--Crococoloco (talk) 15:26, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Splitting up pages.

So I get that the Sisters and Custodes are both in the same army for 30k, and I get that they're in different armies for 40k, so why are the 40k Custodes rules included in their 30k section as opposed to getting their own page like the Sisters? It doesn't help that there's no clue in the title that this is where they are either, just the other day I was looking for 40k tactics for them and was unable to find them since I forgot that they're listed in a 30k page for some reason. That being said, does anyone object to giving them their own page? -- Triacom (talk) 04:13, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Psi-Titan Fatal Flaw

The fatal flaw of the Psi-titan is grenade launcher sisters of silence. Why? Because they can fire 10 shots which WILL hit, and that's 10 perils rolls. Don't roll a 1, because that's removed from play. Am I wrong in thinking this? ~Macca TOC

• What unit are you talking about? --Flutist (talk) 16:39, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

We Need to add Assassins

Something I've completely missed (and I doubt I'm the only one) is this line: For the purposes of creating a Talons of the Emperor Detachment, units from the Legio Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Officio Assassinorum and Ordo Sinister faction army lists may be used in combination, taking account of their own unique faction special rules.

That's directly from the FAQ, so the Talons had access to the Assassins all this time, which I wish I knew a long while ago. -- Triacom (talk) 06:16, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

On Valdor

Note all of the above is written with meta in mind and that's a fact; yes the Tribune is better value but that's because he's underpointed for the shit he brings to the table and any weapon debate involving the Divining Blades is just pointless because that relic is just 55pts of cheddar. While I do agree that you should consider Krole as she's a solid and reliable (and most importantly cheap) HQ, Valdor still holds his own in any melee combat, has a brilliant model and when not compared to the aforementioned cheddar, the Apollonian Spear is a fantastic weapon that also benefits from lightning strikes. His Warlord trait isn't great but it still has its uses and yes he's expensive, but he can go toe to toe with some primarchs and have a solid chance of winning while being cheaper than they are and now with the inclusion of daemons, forcing successful invulnerable saves to be re-rolled might just be more useful than ever. At the end of the day, 30k is a fluffy game for most people, so see him for what he is and don't be scared of bringing him over the Tribune. Who knows? Your opponent might appreciate it.

• What was written on Valdor was written with the game in mind in and that's a fact; he's overpriced for what he offers cannot compete with two Shield-captains or a Hetaeron squad. Trying to write those complaints off by ignoring his price is stupid because the tactics pages need to keep those in mind, just like how trying to write off his Warlord Trait as "still having uses" is stupid when it's arguably the shittiest Warlord Trait in the entire game. There's no reason to ever use it compared to any table you could roll on, and especially not when you can get a Tribune who, with their nerfs, are no longer under-costed. It's also equally stupid to write off Divining Blades just because you think they're too strong (on a Hetaeron squad they're dangerous but vulnerable). In addition the only Primarch he can take on with a decent chance of winning against is Alpharius, everyone else is going to crush him (don't even try to bring up Lorgar, he's going to use Psychic shenanigans to dominate the fight). Even your last point about him being good against Daemons of the Ruinstorm falls flat since their higher-costed options can choose to give themselves Enduring, meaning he can't one-shot them and unlike a Hetaeron squad, he'll find it harder to wound them in round 2 (if not round 1). -- Triacom (talk) 18:25, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

This page is too full of WAAC Faggotry

Lists should be fluffy

It's a tactics page about winning. Why wouldn't it be WAAC? -- Triacom (talk) 18:48, 11 June 2020 (UTC)