Talk:Warhammer 40,000/Tactics/Tyranids(8E)

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Tactics Page Started[edit]

  • So a basic copy/paste and tweak from the 7th Edition page didn't seem appropriate as honestly 8th Edition is a new game. From my reading of the index so far we've pivoted from a shooting army to a super mobile close combat army. I figured where appropriate we can copy/paste content from the 7E article still? --Swarmlord 23:00, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

They weren't the only ones, but they were one of the ones most people complained about. And it's not about whether or not they were actually a problem. I'm just saying that's how people perceive them. I personally think that they had a few faults, put a lot of people at my store have been really angry at Nids lately. And that's a proveem a nods Player might have to deal with.

Units[edit]

HQ[edit]

Swarmlord[edit]

I removed the bullet point about the Swarmlord anchoring his own Tyrannocyte. It made some incorrect assumptions about deployment. While Alien Cunning does allow the Swarmlord to redeploy, he does not have an option to deploy into reserves. That ability is granted by the Tyrannocyte when it is deployed. Once the Tyrannocyte has been deployed, you do not have an option to later deploy a unit to it. This includes redeploying a Swarmlord before the first turn. However, it is worth noting that a generic Hive Tyrant with Wings would have the option to redeploy into reserves since that is an option available to that unit directly. -Rhastia

Hive Tyrant[edit]

Should it be mentioned that the Tyrant/Swarmlord kit doesn't contain any Monstrous Rending Claws? Considering the consensus that they're his best melee option, letting prospective players know they will need another kit as a source for them might be worthwhile.

Troops[edit]

Hormagaunts[edit]

  • Could probably put in a note about the Bounding Leap cheese that allows you to pile into units you don't target with your charge. It effectively allows a full unit of Horms to tie up an entire gunline while only taking overwatch from one unit. -ThorOfAsgard

Fast Attack[edit]

Harpy and Hive Crone[edit]

  • Added additional information on the Harpy and Hive Crone that has to do with their lack of HARD TO HIT, it's an extremely important factor in their tacticia since Tyranid players are going to have to become artists with their movement to counter Stormtalons and hawks while avoiding being charged by highly mobile units like assault marines.

Heavy Support[edit]

Mawloc[edit]

  • Well I'll be wounded by a grot, the Mawloc does have smaller talons than the Trygon. In that case... I modeled my Mawloc a bit incorrectly. Thanks for the correction . -Un'tan
  • Note that the Mawloc works great as a vehicle for circumventing the standard 9" Deep Strike bubble that exists, when using the Jormungandr strategem. Want your Pyrovores/Genestealers/Tyranid Infantry 1" away at the end of the move phase? Mawloc gets them there. -ThorOfAsgard <--This is not at all correct. The Jormungandr strategem specifically says that the extra unit must still be more than 9" from enemy models. The Mawloc, although technically, is effectively useless for the strategem.

Artifacts[edit]

Why are people putting that certain ones are good on Lictors of 'fexes? They can't take them, only characters.

  • Old One Eye is a Carnifex and Deathleaper is a Lictor. Maybe that's what they're on about.
    • Both are named characters, and cannot take any artifacts however.

Stratagems[edit]

Is it worthwhile pointing out that Sporefield and the Genestealer one both come out at 60pts minimum for the squads. Sporefields could be useful for pushing back infiltrators/deepstrikers; and if your opponent doesnt take them; then you can use the 60pts and 3 command points to put an Objective Secured unit on/near an objective in turn 5 or 6 (as they arent reserves, they dont get destroyed if they dont come onto the table after turn 3.)

On Venom Cannons[edit]

Venom Cannons appear to have shifted from ostensible anti-vehicle weapons to relatively long range heavy infantry killers. Should their descriptions be more positive in this regard rather than complaining about how they still don't fit their old role?

  • It is interesting. Even the points suggest GW weights the Barbed Strangler above the Venom Cannon now which, since it's usually going to give your mediocre 4+ to hit a boost against most fresh squads, isn't surprising. But is roughly one S8 hit at -1 damage a turn really worth the cost? So far I've been underwhelmed.
    • It depends on what army you're up against I feel. Nid v. Guard, of course go with Strangler. Nid v. SM, I've had much better performance with Venom Cannons. Those two points of Strength really help.
      • It's a welcome high strength weapon, at the Troop level, which we need as a lot of our mid tier monsters really struggle with metal boxes (it's embarrassing watching a Hive Tyrant or Carnifex try to kill a healthy Rhino). But I'm finding the deathspitter a much more effective MEQ splatter. It's a sawed off heavy bolter now (identical to the Assault Bolter of the Primaris but 7 pts cheaper).
        • Might just be my luck being skewed in favor of Attack Rolls over Wound Rolls then. Anything to lower the "To-Wound" target is welcome for me.
          • I was playing with a Flyrant at the weekend and its HVC performed like absolute wank against a Marine player. I don't think I ever managed to make a wound with the thing. d3 attacks is just too unreliable.
            • It would be helpful if you described in more detail desu

Matched Play[edit]

Important to note that in matched play in 8th, a battleforged army has to all be the same faction. So in that scenario you can't take Genestealer Cults as additional models. Or play against an asshole using Taudar. UPDATE: GSC and Nids are legit as they share a keyword. Taudar is not.

  • spore mines
    • spore mines, as far as I can tell come it two varieties.
      • you can purchase them using points as normal. These are deployed just like every other unit and cost points.
      • you can generate them using another unit. These are free.
    • It's unclear which kind are created by the spore field stratagem, and it may need to be FAQd.
      • They FAQ'd it, you have to pay the cost of these spore mines. Yea, that makes this stratagem absolutely pointless and unusable.

Carnifex Whining[edit]

Should that guy's bitching be removed from the carnifex section?

  • Note that OOE is a carnifex as well, meaning that he benefits from the previous rule. This means he hits on a two up with his talons and refills ones, virtually guaranteeing a hit in combat, barring any other modifiers.
      • Are we sure about that? His effect is on friendly <HIVE FLEET> Carnifex units not <HIVE FLEET> CARNIFEX and he's not a Carnifex unit. All the Tyranid HQ units seem to have that wording problem where it looks like they effect their lesser kin but not themselves.
        • He is a Carnifex unit. His unit only includes himself, but he is a unit. The same as there can be single model Carnifex units.
          • He has the Carnifex keyword but it's counter intuitive to suggest he would benefit from his own aura buff; the point is that he elevates the WS and BS of his type of unit to match his own because he's a leader. The Red Terror does the same for Raveners and the Tyranid Prime does the same for Warriors.
            • OOE has the Carnifex keyword, where as The Red Terror and Tyranid Primes do not have the Ravener or Warrior keywords. This should make OOE buff himself as well as any other Carnifex.
              • From p179 of the rulebook: "Some units - usually CHARACTERS - have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always in range of the effect."
                • That's right and in the case of, say an SM Captain, that applies. "Re-roll hit rolls of 1 made for friendly <CHAPTER> units withing 6". Straight forward and the above applies. Had the OOE's ability read "Add 1 to hit rolls in the fight phase for friendly <HIVE FLEET> CARNIFEX that are within 6" we would not be having this debate. It doesn't though. It targets Carnifex unit(s). There is only one Carnifex unit in our army. OOE is a Old One Eye unit. This same wording to target a specific unit over a keyword is used on the Necron Ghost ark to only affect Warrior units. The above arguments only work if you willfully ignore that keywords are in all caps and bold.
                  • It might just be a typo, God knows the Indices are full of them. OOE has the Carnifex keyword, so I'm going to assume that he buffs himself.
                    • FAQ 1.1 is out and confirms Quiggsey's assumption it was a typo. OOE really is a hit on 2s re-roll 1 monster. You can add 1 to hit rolls in the Fight phase for friendly <HIVEFLEET> CARNIFEX units that are within 6" of this model. --Swarmlord 08:19, 24 Jul 2017 (UTC)

Tervigon[edit]

Arnt they crap and horible Overcosted? I see no prove that Termagant spawns are Free. They have to be payed by reserve points or am I wrong? -greets Krymh

  • so this is unclear in the codex, but the trend across multiple codexes has been that effects that create a new unit (demonic summoning, the send in the next wave IG stratagem) cost reinforcement points but effects that replace a slain model (apothecaries, the tide of traitors chaos stratagem) do not. The tervigon can do both. It can replace up to ten models that were lost earlier in a battle to an existing unit (which should be free), or it can create a new unit of ten (which should cost points). Obviously, this may change later with an FAQ, but I'm working off trends. -cheers. Ordogrammarus

They FAQed it, creating a new unit costs points, replacing models you already paid for doesn't. What makes the Tervigon bad is that being over 10 wounds means they will just shoot him instead of your Terms, and when he pops you lose more Terms as well as their Synapse/hit buff provider. -ThorOfAsgard

  • Yea, every unit creation costs the initial points, except the spores from the spore launcher weapons. - \o/ Ironfist

Ymgarl Factor[edit]

I get how Ymgarl Factor is not that usefull on a Hive Tyrant, but the +1 S isn't quite good on units with and odd S score, such as Broodlord and Trygon Prime? They have an easier time wounding, and +1 T or A seems still quite good as results. -greets Halandar

Warlord Traits[edit]

Anyone knows that if i choose a Hive Tyrant for my warlord, then if i bring the Swarmy and OOE, then these guys get their built-in warlord traits, or not? Because it is not clear in the codex. - \o/ Ironfist

  • Nope, they are just -required- to take those warlord traits if they are your warlord, they do not get them if they aren't your warlord.

Article Pictures[edit]

What the fuck is up with the pictures? They fuck up the page and none of the other tactics articles have them. --120.154.95.52 15:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

  • Wouldn't mind them as much if they didn't have those unfunny captions. Should the pictures be removed entirely or just the labels?
    • I disagree. The pictures are welcomed, in my opinion, especially for some obscure units/dual kits that people might have trouble visualizing. They bring color to pages that tend to be walls of text. And I find some of the captions pretty funny too. TBH, I would like to see illustrations like on all pages, I think they improve articles. The only problems I see are 1) copyright issues and 2) sometimes they fuck up the page.
      • On mobile the table ends up constraining all the text to the left half of the page, with the right half being mostly blank space with the picture in the center of the cell. maybe a change in formatting would be the best of both worlds?
        • I agree that the pictures bring some color to the wall of text and that more codices should have them :) --A Jolly Nurgle Prick 4apr2019

Nurgle Prick's edits[edit]

Calm down son seriously.

Armouries on the various army pages.[edit]

This is mostly a repost of a question I had on the main tactics page, but I'll be posting it on all the most frequently updated tacticas because it applies to all of them and I'd like to hear any arguments against it.

I've been wondering this for a while now, but what do the armoury sections add that cannot be covered by unit entries? Everything in them is either stating info that is obvious and redundant to anyone holding the relevant book (which are the people using the tactica in the first place), or it's insight that is restated in the unit entry itself, where it's actually relevant. I get why we list relics since those are usually unique to the army and can be applies to a ton of different characters for different builds, same with Warlord Traits, and both of those are usually not covered in the various unit entries, instead that advice is usually covered in the relic and traits sections which makes sense. But for the regular armouries I'm not really seeing why we keep them around at all to be honest, since they take up so much space and it's annoying to scroll past that kind of bloat. How should we improve them, if possible (so that they're not just restating profiles) or should we just remove them? Personally I'm leaning more towards getting rid of them entirely. -- Triacom (talk) 18:50, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Tables make the page a mess[edit]

Whoever formatted these did a piss-poor job of it, there's no cohesion and on mobile it impairs readability.