User:Kracked Mynd/Forgotten and Scorned/Primarch Info

Primarch Homeworld

As a side note: when comparing the loyalists and traitors there is an interesting distinction between the two opposing sides. The loyalists all had home worlds and people, be they family or friends that they wanted to protect whereas the traitors did not or they simply no longer cared:

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• Loyalists:

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• Lion - although he would never show it deeply cared for Caliban and its people and definitely for Luther and all his little brothers.

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• Roboute Guilliman - had the five hundred worlds to think of and protect, and he always planned that each one of them had a future to look forward to

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• Rogal Dorn - although not much is known of Inwit we know that he had a close bond with his foster-grandfather and has expressed no hard feelings towards his adopted home world (which for Dorn might as well be an outright declaration of love).

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• Ferrus Manus - had Medusa and its people. Arguable, since he outright ordered his Legion to forcibly claim leadership of the Clan, but considering the Iron Hands are still around Medusa, its likely they're neutral about the unstable rock they call home.

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• Vulkan - what can be said about Vulkan that hasn’t been said before, the guy would throw himself into danger regardless of whether it was to protect Nocturne or some backwards no name human settlement with the same passion and drive.

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• Corax - had Deliverance and its people.

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• Leman Russ - had Fenris and although he hadn’t initially cared for the ice ball he would later come to realise that he had allowed himself to grow fond of the planet and its people.

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• Sanguinius - had Baal and being an angel on par with Vulkan, loved his homeworld, and everyone in it

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• Jaghatai Khan - had Chogoris and its people. Led his tribes to a life without terror from a (admittedly practical) continental superpower that butchers their people on a regular basis.

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• Traitors:

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• Horus - although he landed on Cthonia because he was found early and spend much of his informative years by the Emperors side he had no real affinity with the world or its people.

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• Angron - it speaks volumes when Angron personally murderfucked his planet into a dead world, after finding out they described him as a coward after his forced departure

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• Fulgrim - by the time he had been possessed and then gained control over himself again his narcissism had been kicked into overdrive and he cared for nothing but himself.

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• Mortarion - one of the exception amongst the traitors, he cared deeply about protecting Barbarus and its people (in his own twisted way). Even after his ascension, he shaped his Daemon World in the likeness of Barbarus.

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• Lorgar - once he found his Gods all he cared about was spreading the word. Allowing his sons to be possessed by the creatures in the warp gives a good indicator just how far he had fallen.

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• Alpharius Omegon - do these guys even have a homeworld?

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• Magnus the Red - the other exception, he had Prospero and its people. But once Prospero was ravaged and all those he had cared for were either slain or being hunted by those that they had once called brothers there really wasn’t much left for the big guy.

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• Perturabo - always the bitter brother, the Olympia genocide finally tipped Perturabo over the edge.

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• Konrad Curze - originally thought his planet was worth saving after his Night Haunter therapy worked, but after he returned from the Great Crusade he found they devolved into the same anarchic criminals from before his rule of terror; he judged them hopeless and subjected his planet to the Imperium's first known Exterminatus.

− It has been asked why the Emperor seemed to allow the powers of chaos to scatter the Primarchs. Could it be that in order to exert control over such powerful beings he needed to ensure that they had something that they would fight for and protect on a personal level?

Is Lion El'Jonson Dead?

Gav did say that there would be hidden Easter eggs to be found in Deathwing: Space Hulk; the two figures show some striking similarity's (From Deathwing and the 8th edition rule book).

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• The author Gav Thorpe said in a recent interview that "the Lion is dead" which is at odds with fluff given in codices and Luther's own ravings, though that statement was not unequivocal, as the answer given in the interview was specifically with how 40k Dark Angels deal with various layers of revelation within the circles of the Chapter. So the Lion's "death at the hands of Horus" and that "Horus blew up Caliban" are the first thing that Dark Angels have to come to terms with, but eventually find out that they had been lied to and that knowledge is specifically withheld from them to let them be good space Marines "here and now" rather than thinking about the existential problems of the past. So the Lion's "death" is still as uncertain as ever.

− (http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/4/c/e/4ce8f98c68676bdd/Ep_133_-_Legacy_of_Caliban_wGav_Thorpe.mp3?c_id=11000551&expiration=1456327494&hwt=dc63c5caa6e74be2ced10b4aae7b3964) (fast forward to 00:37:09)

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• The idea that the Lion is actually dead and gone is unfortunately backed up by "The Eye of Ezekiel" that suggests that the dying Lion gave Cypher a final important mission to complete before he died. However the vision contradicts the usual story because Luther is nowhere to be seen, and the vision also only shows Lion passing out.

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"What would you have me do my Lord?"

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"Troll them, Troll them all" Last words of the Lion... probably.

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• A-D-B also gave this cryptic response when commenting upon the possible returning Primarchs: "In all seriousness, what we "know" about the primarchs has quite literally always been half-myth. We "know" the Lion is asleep in the Rock. Except do we, really? Is that actually true? We "know" the Khan went to X, and that Corax left to do Y, and Russ did A, and so on. But almost every primarch's fate was left intentionally mythical with no definitive answer, pretty much like how King Arthur is supposed to return to Britain at its hour of need (where were you in WWII, chief?)". http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334451-primarch-updates/

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• Being dead doesn't necessarily mean that the Lion cant "return". The Watchers in the Dark could pull off some kind of Heretical shenanigans and bring him back as some form of wraith-like creature (think the Nazgul Witch King); alternatively, if the sword that Cypher is carrying contains part of the Lion's consciousness or spirit, then bringing it before the Emperor might mean him coming back as a Living Saint, which would be awesome.

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− Of course, one thing 8th Edition has stressed is that "Britain" is at its hour of need now...

Emperor's mini-me

− Despite (probably) not being a psyker, Lion shares a lot in common with the Emperor regarding his personality. Just like his dad, he's a charismatic and highly intelligent leader that have trouble relating to his subordinates and putting trust into them when it's really needed. Ultimately it's this secretiveness and lack of communication as well as deliberate withholding of some critical information from his sons that turned half of his legion against him, just like the Emperor kinda turned half of his Primarchs by not sharing with them the critical information about the project he left the Great Crusade for and the existence of Chaos gods. In a way it makes perfect sense - Lion being the first Primarch, he wasn't altered as much as others from the original genetic code taken from the Emperor himself.

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− According to the “Russ" Primarch book; when it comes to politics, the Lion "does so well on Terra" which implies that he is more than capable of holding his own among the Imperial courts and is described as having a dark, sombre majesty perhaps more than any other Primarch with a calm presence of one born to rule and comfortable in the role. The story also seems to allude to the unique aspect of the Lion as he is called the regent to the one who had created them all, possessing a kingly aspect not diminished by time, remaining one of suzerainty, of domination, of command. This kingly aspect is also demonstrated in “Angels of Caliban” when Typhon is in the presence of Horus he feels that he should bow but when the Lion shows up there is no maybe, he immediately drops the knee along with everyone else present without a single thought needed. Typhon also mentions that being in the Lion's presence was like prey being discovered by a predator and that even the members of the Adeptus Astartes found themselves flooded with dread.