User talk:174.0.82.236

The duel between Sigmar and Katakros

"Taking a calculated risk, the Mortarch of the Necropolis steps forward to duel the Heldenhammer in person, reasoning the glaive Inda-Khaat is a blade that can potentially kill a god..."

Please tell me where in there it says that Katakros was ordered by Nagash to engage Sigmar in a one-on-one duel, because a one-on-one duel is exactly how this paragraph and the one following it describes it. Furthermore please tell me where Nagash explicitly orders Katakros to get in a one-on-one duel with Sigmar, because it is not in the book. As stated on page 21, Katakros figured he could kill Sigmar in a fight, and he stepped forward while taking a calculated risk. If Nagash had ordered him to fight Sigmar in person, then he would not have taken the calculated risk in fighting Sigmar (which all but outright states it was his own choice), he would've just gone to fight him. -- Triacom (talk) 06:53, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

The Book states he was ordered to engage Sigmar. And later says Katakros dueled him after Sigmar smashed his way through his army. Katakros did go to engage him alone, he only went 1 v 1 after Sigmar had already decimated his forces rather than retreat. The books says as well that Katakros did not think he could win, but gave it a shot, because defeating Sigmar was his orders.

Please tell me where in the book he was ordered to engage Sigmar in a one-on-one duel. That's what you've argued several times, that he only fought Sigmar in person because he was ordered to, yet the book never says that and you're trying to infer it from these points. In any case, let's go through them to show why they don't work:

The Book states he was ordered to engage Sigmar. You're paraphrasing. The part you were previously quoting stated that Katakros' forces were to engage Sigmar. It had nothing to do with Katakros taking Sigmar on in a one-on-one duel.

And later says Katakros dueled him after Sigmar smashed his way through his army. I see you're skipping a big part, namely the part where the book states it was Katakros' choice to engage him in person.

Katakros did go to engage him alone, he only went 1 v 1 after Sigmar had already decimated his forces rather than retreat. You assume. What was the state of Katakros' forces at the time of the duel? We don't know because the book doesn't say. All we know is that Katakros stepped forward on the assumption that his weapon would work after seeing that no other weapon could harm Sigmar.

The books says as well that Katakros did not think he could win- Full stop, that's a lie. The book states that Katakros took a calculated risk and stepped forward to duel Sigmar only because he believed he could kill him. If he knew he couldn't win, he would not have stepped forward under the impression he was going to win.

So in summary, Katakros' duel with Sigmar was entirely his own choice. -- Triacom (talk) 05:02, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

The book goddamn says it. You are ignoring a whole chunk about the battle. Let me just quote the whole thing.

"The God-King carved a path of destruction through the Realm of Death. Katakros met him on the field of battle, despite knowing that even he could not hope to defeat a god – yet it was his master’s will, and so it would be done. Sigmar’s raw fury saw him smash through Katakros’ artful envelopments until he stood before the Mortarch in person. The resultant duel was intense, but Sigmar in his rage was unstoppable."

"In time, his quest brings him to the Prime Innerlands, the storm of his wrath not yet abated. There he is confronted by Katakros’ legions. A great battle takes place, but Sigmar is inviolable in his form as a god of war; even spirit blades and weapons forged with gravesand simply shatter upon his skin. A thousand of the Ossiarch Echelon are destroyed in the crackling blaze of the God-King’s wrath. Taking a calculated risk, the Mortarch of the Necropolis steps forward to duel the Heldenhammer in person, reasoning that the glaive Inda-Khaat is a blade that can potentially kill a god – for Nagash enchanted it to be just such a weapon, and used the same secrets of warpstone in its construction that laid low the Great Necromancer himself in aeons past. In single combat on the shores of Lake Lethis, Katakros fights well, second-guessing his wrathful opponent and slowly wearing him down. But Sigmar’s rage grows as the duel progresses, and with it swells the thunderhead of his power. As the day’s light begins to fade, Katakros finds himself outmatched, his own shield wrenched from his undead hands by his raging foe. Yet even Ghal Maraz cannot destroy the Mortarch completely."

You are completely ignoring the first quote. Which states that Katakros did not think he could win, but engaged his forces with Sigmar anyway because of his orders, and that it only became single combat, after Sigmar smashed his way through Katakros' forces and reached him. The two quotes are not mutually exclusive or contradictory.

And you're ignoring the entire sentence in between the first paragraph that covers how much Sigmar had to fight before he faced Katakros, and you're ignoring the bit on page 21 that says engaging him in the duel was not only his choice, but that he believed he could win. You're also ignoring how "meeting somebody on the field of battle" is not the same as dueling them in person, and fighting in person was his choice, as we see here: Taking a calculated risk, the Mortarch of the Necropolis steps forward to duel the Heldenhammer in person, reasoning that the glaive Inda-Khaat is a blade that can potentially kill a god- Only if you ignore this outright can you assume that he thought he couldn't beat Sigmar in person and that the duel itself wasn't his choice. -- Triacom (talk) 04:16, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

If you want to point out on the page that the book is either poorly written in how it tries to get its ideas across, or that it appears to be self contradictory, then go ahead. What you should not do is ignore one of those in favour of the other, which is what you've been doing so far. -- Triacom (talk) 04:17, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

You are the one who is doing that. The things are not contradicting themselves. Katakros did not think he could win, but decided to risk it, because he was ordered to stop Sigmar by Nagash. The two paragraphs do no contradict each other. Katakros stepped forward to duel Sigmar, after Sigmar smashed through his forces and reached him.

If he didn't think he could win then why did he think fighting Sigmar was a "calculated risk"? You don't take risks on a loss, there's nothing to gain from a 0% chance to win going to a different 0% chance to win, there's no risk there. Also the more you look at it, the more the paragraphs are clearly contradictory, unless this is the sequence of events:

• Sigmar invaded with an army that Katakros knew he couldn't beat, but Nagash wanted him to fight anyway.
• Katakros reasons that he can kill Sigmar, even if he can't beat his army.
• Sigmar slaughters his way through Katakros' forces until he reaches Katakros who was already coming out to meet him.
• They duel, Katakros loses.

That's the only way these events don't contradict one another. Katakros has to think he can beat Sigmar in a duel, or the part where he thinks this doesn't make sense. -- Triacom (talk) 02:22, 23 November 2019 (UTC)