User talk:Evilexecutive

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A Fluff Heads-up[edit]

The part where I corrected you on the Xavion fluff was properly separating the first encounter --> capture and the rehabilitation --> break out incident where he actually kills Xerxes. I understand that you're trying to write a story on it but it's actually been written into the timeline and other fluff pieces that there's two major parts to the story, which I believe that you were writing about was the first part. I also changed the details of him being in 9th Company to him starting out in 6th Company so that his ascension to 6th Company Captain makes more sense, as well as properly describing his career path (6th company tactical knight service --> 1st company veterans as part of sternguard (and eventually silent-hands) --> captain aspirant --> 6th company captain Remoon101 (talk) 21:36, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

KI reception[edit]

Perhaps it would be wisest to keep all Knights Inductor discussion within 1d4chan itself in the future. The reception to it so far has made it overwhelmingly clear that /tg/ will never be satisfied no matter how thoroughly refluffed they are- their very reputation will ensure that they will always be branded as poorly written Mary Sues by a large majority of fa/tg/uys and make any attempts at productive discussion nearly impossible. Better to keep it all here, where it can be better regulated (and because the end result will be violently rejected no matter how good it is fluff-wise or crunch-wise).--Newerfag (talk) 18:32, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunate that I can't control my goons. Mirms the OP for posting Knights on tg, and I sent him a message to desist. We can't afford the chance of shitposters responding to attention and ruining our work. At this point all we can do is put up the void shields and hope for the best.Evilexecutive (talk) 18:37, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
It's not them so much as the board itself and the history of who it is you're rewriting. The only thing that would satisfy people now after all the previous trash made in their name is their complete and total erasure. You MIGHT be able to present it when it's completely done, but all instances of the name "Knights Inductor" would need to be replaced by something else entirely, as well as all references to the Aprior System and the names of ICs. And you'd have to dissociate them from the Reasonable Marines, who are now no more capable of being taken seriously than the original Angry Marines. Even then you'd have to wait for at least a few months, or people will just see through the attempt at rebranding them. --Newerfag (talk) 18:55, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
I might help ya with certain things. But you know what it should be done? Delete first the original KI page. That and every single trace of them, their fluff, their stories, everything that was done before the rewritting. Then move the rewritting page into the place of the original page. That's a good start fo now. - Ben (talk) 18:42, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Crazy Cryptek (talk) 19:42, 18 June 2015 (UTC) I'd suggest renaming them into something like the Adamantium Exemplars.
...If that's what will make this stop this, then OK. - Ben (talk) 19:50, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Ya know what? Maybe we should instead of removing the original wiki site, move it somewhere else? - Ben (talk) 20:06, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
As fond as I am of suggesting that things be deleted, doing it to the old KI will just make you all look like you're trying to rewrite history in your favor. I'd say it's better to put the old stuff back to where it was, rename the Codex itself to something else (and as was mentioned before, make them only a Space Marine chapter with an unorthodox structure, with no mention of anything even remotely related to the KI or the Reasonable Marines. And the Cult of Innovation must go too. It's also too Mary Sue-ish for its own good, as is most if not all of the experimental wargear and unique weapons. At the very least, it should be re-remade with balance in mind first and foremost- external balance especially. In its current state it has too many strengths and too few weaknesses. --Newerfag (talk) 21:05, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Agreed here. Or maybe it is as they say. The Knights Inductor are probably too deep in Suedom to even salvage anything. Then I'll revert back their stuff. - Ben (talk) 21:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
I had vainly hoped that it could be turned into something I could look at without hurting myself, but as I suspected the very concept for the Chapter is a lost cause. IF you or anyone else makes an attempt to "save" it, you'll just join it in its fate to be endlessly mocked and derided if not outright despised by /tg/. The crunch's almost-constant lack of external balance only makes it worse, and it too should be either scrapped or moved off-site before it too becomes a vandalism target. --Newerfag (talk) 21:17, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
We can do something different. In my case I still need fleshing out of the Black Locks, yet I don't want to do this on my own. Also I was thinking about a Codex: Rising Sons. I even made prototype Warlord Traits and rules. Well, but for now I need to do my drama and poetry studies. See ya then. - Ben (talk) 21:26, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Crazy Cryptek (talk) 22:06, 18 June 2015 (UTC) Can we also nuke the Covenant stuff too? I'm heavily embarrassed about working on it.
Dunno Cryptek. If do so then someone will do the same as with the attempt with the KI. Instead of nuking, we should overshadow it with original projects and such. - Ben (talk) 22:10, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
As one of the people who did wish to nuke it back then, quite frankly it's your choice as to what to do with it. It was always a stretch to have it shoehorned into 40k in the first place, but nobody seems to care enough about it to get rid of it or add to it, including its original creator. --Newerfag (talk) 22:27, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm sure you could post it on /tg/ and people would be baying for Derpysaurus' blood in about five seconds. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 22:53, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Hell, back when it first came out I was one of the very first people crying for its deletion. Now, I just have better things to do than get worked up over stuff like that. --Newerfag (talk) 22:58, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
I do admit to my eternal shame that I worked on much more of the lore than I should have and for that I am truly repentant and shall submit to the nearest stake to burn myself at. Crazy Cryptek (talk) 23:00, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
  • I'll volunteer to try and salvage this if anybody wants it to be salvaged, and I'm not particularly fond of the Knights Inductor (which in this case will probably help). I also don't care how I'm seen on /tg/ and I've fixed bad pages in the past (like Matt Ward's page, Phil Kelly's page, and the Vampire Counts Tactics page). I'm also very aware of why they're considered Mary Sues (their bit on hive cities is a pretty huge one for example) which is why I stayed away from them until now and I have no intention of adding anything new, just removing or rewriting existing bad parts. -- Triacom (talk) 00:49, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
  • You're welcome to it if you want, just slap the page back on. Some of the key notes that I put down in the New fluff is the following: Hive Cities are a thing on Aprior. ImperialFists/Ultramarines 21st founding. No longer Empire Building. Be careful though that you don't start another edit war, but we should be fine so long as /tg/ as a whole isn't involved again. Me and the other two main editors have agreed though that we should keep this strictly as a 1d4chan collaboration, as /tg/ is apparently of the mindset that the Knights Inductor are unsalvagable.Evilexecutive (talk) 00:52, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
    • I am not fine with how the rewrite is moving forward at all but do as you guys wish as long as you keep the codex alone and intact aside from the discussion page for it Remoon101 (talk) 00:54, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
      • Oh I don't think anything is unsalvageable, I'll take everything regarding the KI, alter it, and then I'll post it here in the page's discussion page in a collapsible section. Don't have that page deleted yet, this'll just take some time. -- Triacom (talk) 00:58, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
      • Well, I'm sure not touching it. Good luck with that, and may the Emperor have mercy on your wretched soul. --Newerfag (talk) 00:59, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Well here's my attempt at fixing the Knights Inductor, since this is where everyone's talking about it I figure I might as well post it here. Please comment with what you'd like to see fixed/improved.

Short points are the Knights Inductor received the downsides of the Imperial Fists and Ultramarines, including the Zygote deficient organs from the Imperial Fists and the Ultramarines lack of thinking outside the box, and they lack the latent memories and biases of the progenitors. How this works in their favour is this gives a reason as to why they're not against making alliances and why they're more reasonable with civilians, and paints them as more naive rather than Noblebright allowing them to fit into 40K's theme a bit better. This also gives a reason as to why the comply with inquisitorial decrees and why they send the 3rd company to help the Imperial Guard, they want to make up for their lack of information thanks to their isolation and to make up for them lacking the latent memories/skills. I also changed the Cult of Innovation to being created and run by Hereteks, them being radical elements of the Mechanicus who like to study Xenos Tech as well as innovate since they'd know how to do that better than the Marines (they actually do exist in regular 40K) and since the Marines wouldn't have anything against allying with them in their isolation (which also explains their split from the Mechanicus and the Inquisitorial Scrutiny).

  • Origins

Created during the "Cursed" Twenty-First Founding, the Knights Inductor are an odd sort, made to be a mixture of the Imperial Fist and Ultramarine gene-seed they only succeeded in obtaining the perceived weaknesses of both Chapters. Like the Imperial Fists they lack the betchers gland and the sus-an membrane, the Ultramarines rigid thinking inability to innovate and they missed the vital wisdom of both chapters, inheriting none of the memories from their forefathers. These Marines were utterly devoid in spirit, afflicted by a plague of unbelief, which had some previously devoted to the Emperor's worship questioning if gods even existed.

These newly created marines were sent on a single ship to the Halo Stars in the hopes that they would find their faith returned or perish, and abandoned to history alongside most of the other Cursed Founding Chapters. Many years later they returned broken, but not defeated by warp storms into what is now known as the Aprior System, where they found their calling.

When they arrived they were immediately contacted by the nearest Hive World, home to several munitions manufactora, the working class had suffered for generations under the yoke of their planetary leadership, until they realized that they outnumbered their rulers by about six orders of magnitude. The Munitorum demanded that order be restored by any means possible, and the standard practice for such situations was that the rebellion be annihilated. The Knights Inductor initially complied, and in doing so saw firsthand the horrors they would be forced to cause, the populace stood no chance against the Knights the leaders of the rebellion and their most loyal followers were killed, the less dedicated populace fleeing. It was then their Chapter Master decried such measures, claiming that the rebellion should never have happened and that if it happened here then the other planets in the Subsector were in danger of rebellion as well. The Munitorum argued against this, claiming that there was no other option, that the fires of war forced their hand, without the extensive firepower the Subsector was in danger of Xenos Invasion or Chaos Incursion, and that the comfort of the citizens came secondary. After heated debate, their Chapter Master reached an agreement with the Munitorum, the Knights Inductor to be the guardians of the Aprior Subsector, so that the citizens of the Aprior Subsector could know a measure of peace and rest in a time of war.

  • Homeworld

The Knights Inductor initially were a fleet-based Chapter, though they later became the protectors of the Aprior System, setting up fortresses across its numerous worlds in order to better see and react to any incoming threat. After they arrived Warp Storms isolated the Subsector for thirteen hundred years before they subsided, leading to the many deviances in the Knights Inductor compared to fully Codex compliant Chapters.

Aprior was the most populated system in the Subsector, and was riven by internal division and external threats, on many worlds the Knights themselves were seen as just another external threat by several factions warring against one another, and though their Chapter Master always attempted a diplomatic approach to unify the system, they were forced on more than one occasion to use lethal force when the more radical or traitorous factions refused to see reason and attacked the Knights. This diplomatic approach in the end won them many supporters in the various systems, and a few enemies, some of which came from the larger Imperium. The Knights had made deals, sometimes unknowingly with with several Renegades and Hereteks, radical members of the Cult Mechanicus who had left in fear of being prosecuted and executed for studying Xenos and Warp Tech, as well as making deals with the benign Xenos of the system, believing that such elements did not need to be outright destroyed. So long as the Xenos were largely ignored they would not hurt the System, and they thought there was much to be learned from the Hereteks, having seen what their Radical Tech could do when such individuals offered their aid in suppresing the Subsystems Chaos elements and even offered to join the Knights so to help maintain their equipment and develop new technology in exchange for any Xeno Tech the Knights could recover in their many battles. Later these Hereteks congregated into a group called the Cult of Innovation, dedicated to studying and developing new technology. In accepting these groups the Knights unknowingly damned themselves in the eyes of many in the larger Imperium, including many in the Inquisition and the Mechanicus.

While the Knights Inductor are technically the governing body in the Aprior Subsector they only step in when they deem it necessary, typically this will be whenever a government is determined to be oppressing its citizens, when Civil War is about to break out, or when local law deviates from Imperial Law. At all other times they let the local governing body run their respective areas.

The Knights have always attempted to better the lives of the citizens of the Aprior System, though their naivety has had its downsides. Many outlaws thought to only need rehabilitation were released back into the general public only to regress to their previous state and many mutants they let live would end up passing their genes down to create more corrupt mutants. This forced the Knights to make the Hereteks develop more effective genetic screening tools and made the Arbites have to spend more manpower on tracking individuals who completed the rehabilitation process to make sure they didn't fully regress. Both methods eventually resulted in fewer mutants and traitors than before and complied to the Knights ideal of bettering the lives of the citizens, though many Arbites would unsuccessfully attempt to argue that eliminating such elements would have stopped both problems.

The Knights draw recruits from the general public, putting Civil Defence Training and extensive exercise programs into youth education programs. From these they can attempt to identify individuals who might be compatible with their gene-seed, and extending the offer of joining their ranks to these individuals and their families. While there is no penalty in refusing induction, it is seen as a great honour to accept, even those later found to be incompatible are skilled enough to excel in the Chapter Staff or the Apriori Armed Forces.

Unfortunately thanks to letting the governing bodies rule their respective areas and attempting diplomacy over armed conflict, a few Chaos Cults hid and played loyal to the Emperor are growing in power directly in the hearts of the subsector through slow conversion of the civilians, helped by the Knights being open about their disbelief in the Emperor as a god, leading the common people to seek other gods to believe in. If the Inquisition ever finds out about them consequences could be dire as heretics in the heart of a Marine world would be all the evidence the increasingly suspicious Inquisition needs to declare the Knights Excommunicate Traitoris.

  • Beliefs

Like most Space Marine Chapters, the Emperor is not worshiped as a god among the Knights Inductor, but as a man: and even then, although the Knights Inductor believe that he is powerful, worthy of admiration, and in many ways the best that mankind has to offer and a man every Knight should strive to emulate. They also believe (though they would claim that it is not so much "belief" as awareness) that he is not perfect. They are scrupulously careful to avoid blind devotion, because doing so would blind them to their own imperfections. A significant part of the Chaplains' sessions with the Space Marines is spent on reflection, to recognize and learn from their failures and shortcomings and improve going forward; believing their humility is helped by reminding themselves that even the Emperor can make mistakes.

While other Chapters believe that the best way to defend the Imperium is to destroy those who oppose it, The Knights Inductor's first and foremost belief is that they should defend the Imperium from its enemies, rather than leave their planets to go on Crusades. This practice of garrisoning the various Hive Worlds has given them a respect for the diversity present in the Imperium and a belief that each system and citizen has merit, causing them to try and prevent the loss of civilian life at nearly any cost. Due to being cut off from the larger Imperium thanks to Warp Storms, having all ties cut with the Mechanicus and lacking the innate memories and biases of their progenitors they've even attempted forging an alliance out of many disparate members, within and beyond the Subsector.

The Chapter also has an absolute hatred of Chaos, while outlaws and renegades can come to be accepted by the Knights and they try to rehabilitate them, they will not tolerate any Traitors of the Immaterium. The reason for this stems once again for their belief in life being the most important thing to protect, and the Chaos Gods care not for the lives of those beneath them, worship of them is made by those who have no qualms making sacrifices of others for little to no personal gain, and that is a crime with which there can be no redemption in the Knights eyes.

  • Combat Doctrine

Knights Inductor gene-seed makes them steadier but not as quick, relative to other Space Marine Chapters, and lacking the latent memories of combat from other chapters they use unorthodox tactics that play to their strengths. Typically they don't make use of high-visibility close-quarters assaults that have them rely on their armour and advanced biology, they instead use camouflage and more exotic stealth techniques to mask their deployments and strike from long range, usually with heavy mechanized support thanks to the Aprior Subsector's industrial base and manufacturing capacity. The Knights Inductor amplify this advantage through advanced electronic and psychological warfare, setting up decoys that either make themselves look like they number far more than they actually do or provide targets to distract their foes. In the case of enemies like the Tyranids and Orks who actively look for a fight, they use these as feints to trick the enemy into separating its forces before eliminating the leaders of each force with Sniper Teams.

The most peculiar "combat doctrines" of the Knights Inductor have to do with their preference to limit or even avoid combat if it is reasonable to do so; sometimes this is as simple as intimidating an opponent into surrendering by making their forces appear larger than they are, or in cases where there's very little danger to themselves showing up in full splendour, demonstrating their power and resilience, then demanding surrendur from enemy forces.

The Knights believe that a nonviolent resolution is preferable to a bloody war, and that by not exterminating the enemy, prisoners taken can supply information and be used as bargaining chips, or even defect entirely. They may also leave a detachment behind after major combat operations are complete to help establish stability, rather than perpetuating needless and wasteful conflict and leaving the locals to clean up the mess by themselves. These practices have earned the Knights Inductor the moniker of "Reasonable Marines" among Imperial citizens. Other Astartes have decried such tactics, claiming that the time taken by the Knights to bring one opposing force to heel could have been spent on five if they used traditional tactics, and that the defectors have an equal chance of leaving the Knights when they're up against a more powerful force, but to the Knights Inductor life is something that is valued above everything else and if it takes more time to ensure that the people are safe then they consider it time well spent.

Sometimes this doctrine involves tolerating or cooperating with people (human or otherwise) whom more puritanical chapters or Imperial authorities would have exterminated; the Knights Inductor (and Apriori in general) are not picky about their allies, so long as they behave. When the Warp storms surrounding the Aprior Subsector subsided, Inquisitor Rightina Immam was sent to identify any deviations which had developed over the thirteen hundred years of isolation, and she was alarmed to find such tolerance; she immediately called an Inquisitorial Council to examine the Knights and judge them. It is also this ideal that lead to them being damned in the eyes of the Mechanicus, who refused to work with any chapter that affiliated itself with Hereteks and used Xenos tech, and it is for this reason that the Knights Inductor do not have anything made from newly discovered STC's.

  • Organization

For the most part, the Knights Inductor operate under the Codex Astartes, but in the millennia since their founding, they have diverged in an attempt to adapt to changing circumstances.

Thanks to their relative isolation and need to pacify multiple areas at once, the Knights tend to separate their forces. It is very rare for a whole Company to fight together; they frequently fight as individual Squads, in fairly separated battles -- on many occasions, a Company has found itself split across multiple fronts of warfare. To ensure that each detachment has enough Marines to fight effectively, the Knights gradually increased their standard squad size from ten to its present (and likely final) value of twenty-four. A squad of this size can divide itself two, three, or even four ways depending on the tactical needs of a particular mission. While the lack of companies would be suicide against great threats like the Tyranids, the isolation and need to maintain order across multiple worlds and cities have made the Knights deem them largely unnecessary until they re-integrated into the Imperium.

The Third Company takes this division to the extreme, loaning individual squads (sometimes with support from the Chapter Armoury, a Librarian or a Techmarine) to Imperial forces, even those that don't need Astartes assistance. While lending their support, the squads gather intelligence on the tactics and technology of their allies and enemies; the goal of which is to make up for their extended isolation and lack of latent memories. At the conclusion of the campaign, the squad returns home with an impressive record of information to be shared among and dissected by their battle-brothers.

The Chapter has an odd treatment of Psykers as their implants have a higher chance of rejecting them. This has led to the strange practice of training and armouring Neophytes who are suitable Psykers without the implants. While such Neophytes are far less effective in battle than other Marines, it ensures there are more Psykers overall who can help co-ordinate the Chapter using their astropathic abilities, especially when the Chapter divides itself over a large area.

Thanks to their Doctrine, Beliefs and Organization there has been a small split in the Inquisition regarding the Knights. Radical Inquisitors, exemplified by Johannes Krieger of the Ordo Hereticus, advocated cautious acceptance of the Knights Inductor. Krieger acknowledged their deviations, but argued that their experience made them useful to have in the Imperium. On the other hand, the more Puritanical Inquisitors, led by staunch Monodominant Inquisitor Lord Avius Damnos, claimed that no utility can justify the degree of Apriori deviation.

Perhaps the only reason the Knights Inductor haven't been declared Excommunicate Traitoris is because in all cases where the Inquisition requests the use of Knights, Zakis Randi has given them every single request; no matter how absurd, without complaint. He knows of his chapter's status as possible heretics and does everything in his power to maintain decent ties with the Inquisition and Deathwatch.

"The Knights Inductor are heretics even if you cannot see it. I've no doubt they will betray us and join those they've claimed to destroy, so I will send them on these tasks so that when they do betray us we will not have another full-strength renegade chapter and you have to agree that if they can be whittled down or destroyed by killing other traitors then so much the better."

-Inquisitor Lord Avius Damnos when questioned by Inquisitor Johannes Krieger about the requests made of the Knights Inductor.

  • Gene-seed

The Gene-seed of the Knights Inductor is based off of the Imperial Fists gene-seed and the Ultramarines gene-seed in an attempt to make defenders of the Imperium that could counter any threat, instead it instilled the flaws of each. The Knights Inductor lack the ability to spit acid or the aid in surviving trauma from suspended animation thanks to the Imperial Fists zygote deficient betcher's gland and sus-an membrane. They acquired the Ultramarines inability to create new battle-plans and new uses for existing technologies, instead they use existing strategies from the Codex Astartes or integrate new strategies learned from Imperial Commanders.

The Knights Inductor also lack the innate memories from their progenitors. It is for this reason they are more inclusive to others like the Cult of Innovation while lacking the wisdom to see what consequences such alliances can bring, leading to the current state of affairs between them, the Mechanicus and the Inquisition.

While it is far more likely for a Psyker to be rejected by their implants, the cause is uncertain, a Psyker has just as much chance of being rejected by one organ as they do any other and the cause of why is unclear, as such they are essentially forever Neophytes, not given the Organs necessary to make them true Space Marines in favour of the chapter having more Astropaths to gather and transmit information.

Their gene-seed banks are regularly screened for signs of any deviation; the Chapter is well aware of the fact that many Imperial forces would like to see them gone, and they do not wish for outside contamination by less savoury elements or for their gene-seed to fall further from their progenitors. To minimize the riks of their gene-seed becoming contaminated or corrupted There are three major gene-banks throughout the Aprior Subsector, though the locations are highly classified, and the number stored in each is an even more tightly-held secret.

  • Battle Cry

The Knights Inductors' motto is "Ex Tenebras, Lux" ("From Darkness, Light"); usually, commanders render it in Low Gothic as "Light up the night!" or "Ignite them!" when they are confronting a foe with force.

  • Developed Technology

The Knights Inductor make use of a wide variety of unique technologies to assist them on the field of battle. Each individual advancement is the result of much struggle and hardship from the Cult of Innovation, massive amounts of time and resources have been spent in the development of each development with many failures. Frequently, each piece was only developed after a suitably massive struggle mandated the creation of a unique technology to fill some gap in the Knight's forces that was exploited by the foe, or after a battle against/with a suitably advanced enemy gained them some insight into how they could fix an existing issue.

Overall I tried to give you your Reasonable Marines without making them into Mary Sues by taking elements I thought fit best from both the old and new stuff you've written, as well as the existing lore. -- Triacom (talk) 05:43, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
At first glance at least it seems to be a step forward, although I'd suggest changing all the names so they have no obvious connection to the old KI first. Guilt by association (with their earlier version) will still plague them otherwise. The name "Lucent Paladins" springs to mind for the Chapter, if you want a suggestion. Other ideas:
-Allegations of cowardice for not going on the offensive against the enemies of the Imperium.
-Hints that the mutants and traitors merely went into hiding rather than being truly dealt with. Imply that some of the hereteks are dealing with them behind the KI's backs. After all, they're only working with the KI because the alternative is death and more than a few of their number would want out of that deal.
- Conflict with the Ecclesiarchy and other more zealous Chapters. Suggesting that the Emperor made mistakes is tantamount to blasphemy.
- The Inquisition is giving them more and more suicide missions, and they're taking more losses than they can recover from. Essentially, they're being purged without knowing it. (I've added this one in, but if it doesn't work feel free to remove it).
- --Newerfag (talk) 06:03, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
I was debating adding the Chaos Cults going into hiding myself, but wasn't too sure how to properly implement it (though I've got a few ideas, originally I had those written in but then deleted it), I figured the homeworld section had gone on long enough for now, and I wanted to present the Marines as more naive than stupid. I was also thinking of having some hereteks work with Chaos Tech, but I don't want to ruin the Cult of Innovation (maybe those can be added as a new cult the Marines meet). I'm also not too sure how I'd implement the conflict with the Ecclesiarchy, as that directly goes against the idea of the Reasonable Marines (it is VERY easy to avoid conflict with the Ecclesiarchy). Sure the more Zealous chapter would have a problem with them but that shouldn't enter into outright war with each other without one of them being declared Excommunicate Traitoris, whoever attacks first would definitely be in the wrong. Even the Black Templars in all their zeal aren't that stupid, they never before attacked anyone who wasn't defined as a Xeno (and even then they actually let an alien race live because of who they worshipped), Traitor, Mutant, or Daemon. I certainly don't have a problem with the Inquisition giving them more and more suicide missions (it also fits in how they could have a such high recruitment rate as well as they're large gene-seed stocks) nor do I have an issue with them being called cowards for not going after the enemies of the Imperium.
I'd rather not change the name though, unless even the people involved in their lore would like the name changed. Sure some people might have some innate biases against them but that's on those people, and those kinds of feelings fade over time. -- Triacom (talk) 06:28, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
Implemented the Chaos Cults, though I'm not too happy with it, I'll probably edit that in a bit better later or if anyone else can do it feel free. Keep in mind too I was trying to implement them in a way that would fit into existing 40K lore, rather than make them their own special snowflake, I figured that making them more downtrodden and ones who NEED to think through their battles to survive rather than just being smart just for the sake of being smart was the way to go. -- Triacom (talk) 06:55, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
I just figured out what I'm missing to bring the hidden cults to light in a good way, the reason I didn't like editing them in there flatly is because I don't like stating everything about a chapter, but if it's written in first person (like the old codex's used to do with certain bits) then I think it would fit right in without outright telling the reader what would happen/what's going on. Maybe it could have apocalyptic cult members discuss how they were waiting to show themselves to the Inquisition during the next inspection, in which case they'd die but take the Knights Inductor with them. That would leave it dubious as to whether their plan could succeed while addressing that diplomacy and sparing life has its downsides in 40K. -- Triacom (talk) 07:22, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
Added the Inquisitional compromise as a speech because I don't like outright stating things, if you just tell the reader what's happening it removes the mystery and I think every entry written about a chapter should reflect the knowledge and views of the chapter, that way there's a little more intrigue and the universe isn't written in stone. I'll probably change the bit on the heretics later as well. -- Triacom (talk) 19:13, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I noticed you're in an edit war[edit]

Those are not allowed on the wiki. If you're having issues with that guy repeatedly vandalizing a page. Make sure Wikifag is notified on his talk page and/or on the main page talk. Remoon101 (talk) 20:04, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Requests for TPV analysis[edit]

Can I request a "True Point Value" assessment of Codex-Conservators? I honestly just used the closest comparison, but I suspect the focus rods are all over the place. --Bobthe6th (talk) 06:10, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Argument with Asorel[edit]

Enlighten me. How is the process of fixing typos reprehensible, and why do you see the need to stalk me? -Asorel

I just read every edit made on this wiki. You replaced some text on the Emprasque story to replace the Dark Angels 'men' with Jews, and tried to put that sort of a theme into the story. I don't approve of such inappropriate edits.Evilexecutive (talk) 03:32, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

If you had actually read the page's edit history, rather allowing your zeal to replace reason, you would have seen that I was reverting edits placed into the page earlier. --Asorel (talk) 03:34, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Don't lie to my face dumbass, especially when the wiki records everything you do. Especially not when I've personally seen what you're lying about. Here, I even took a screenshot of the offending edit you made. Evilexecutive (talk) 03:36, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Do you think I would refer directly to the page's edit history if I wished to lie? Going over the records, it appears that the unintentional activation of an HTML plugin caused the offending edit while I was making more innocuous revisions. Furthermore, when removing article vandalism, goading the perpetrator while making the repairs would only serve to incite more vandalism, given the vanity of trolling. What's more, it's simply unprofessional behavior.--Asorel (talk) 03:46, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely none of that seems to be relevant in the slightest. I'm not going to be fooled by your attempts at redirecting me elsewhere, and in the process of attempting this vain redirect, you've pretty much just admitted that you are a vandal. As for a plugin replacing man with Jew, I'm going to call out out on lying right there because the word MAN appears 56 times exactly on the page you edited. Not only are you now untrustworthy, but you're a pathological liar. At first I thought you were just another respectable editor; after all you have a NAME, and are therefore more valuable to me than an anonymous IP address. But now I understand that Triacom is right about you, you're worthless scum. Evilexecutive (talk) 03:51, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

By the Emperor, you are emotional. here. This is what I mean. I must have accidentally activated it while editing it. As for the presence of 'man' multiple times in the article, I had a specific section of the page open in the editor, not the entire article.

And I say again: If I was indeed lying, why would I point you right at the article's edit history? Furthermore, look over my personal edit history, if you look over every edit. Have I at any point vandalized articles in the past? And have I not myself corrected other vandalisms? Instead of sperging out, I would advise that you calm yourself, and observe the reasoning I have presented.

Finally, /tg/ is anons. If anything, it is us tripfags who are below them--Asorel (talk) 04:09, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Of course you've vandalized articles, slapping delete tags on pages without a valid reason is vandalism, as is deleting the entire page while you do that (pages are only blanked if they're deemed worthless, and not just by one user) and unintentional vandalism is still vandalism unless you immediately fix it (you didn't), or unless you immediately apologize afterwards, which you also didn't do (and still haven't done). You're trying to claim morale superiority while saying anyone who called you out on the vandalism is autistic rather than own up to any of your actions. -- Triacom (talk) 07:42, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Your claims contribute nothing to the current discussion. You have already started identical arguments in two other areas, why are you whinging here?--Asorel (talk) 11:11, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Simple, because you said this: "look over my personal edit history, if you look over every edit. Have I at any point vandalized articles in the past?" So I decided to answer that question. If answering a question and pointing out hypocrisy contributes nothing to the discussion in your mind, then you really won't listen to anything. Tell you what though, take Wikifag's advice and just work on rewrites and additions, I promise I'll cut you a break, and I'm certain that you can still contribute to the wiki in major ways other than tearing pages down. -- Triacom (talk) 11:50, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
The question was not directed at you, and you answered it by redefining "vandalism" to something not pertinent to the topic at hand. More to the point, this discussion does not pertain to you in the slightest. I certainly don't need you of all people to "cut me a break." If you wish to speak about something regarding Wikifag's talk page, write something on Wikifag's talk page. If you wish to discuss am article, make a post on that article's talk page. Don't drag previous arguments into other areas. This site doesn't have many protocols, but make an effort to follow those that do exist. The current discussion is between EvilExecutive and myself, and your barging in is not asked for, nor is it appreciated.--Asorel (talk) 12:08, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
This is a public discussion page, not a private message board, it does not need to be directed at me for me to jump in and I didn't redefine vandalism, that was already one of the definitions. Incidentally I've only brought up enough information to answer the question, I'm not trying to bring in other arguments into here. -- Triacom (talk) 19:23, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
I did not claim you were breaking wiki rules. I stated that you have nothing to contribute this matter, as it is a dispute between EvilExecutive and myself, over a matter that does not concern you. Vandalism is the willful destruction of property with malicious intent; whatever claims you may make regarding page deletions and the validity of such, I would hope that you are not so facile that you attribute my editions to malice. By making comments on matters entirely irrelevant to the current discussion ("I'm certain that you can still contribute to the wiki in major ways other than tearing pages down") you are inarguably bringing other arguments into this page. Arguments about the deletion of an article belong on that article's talk page, not the talk page of the user making the edit, and certainly not the talk page of a user disconnected from the matter entirely.--Asorel (talk) 20:16, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
This is a very amusing argument for my phone to be dictating to me live. I almost didn't notice the inane back and forth over the sound of my germanic metal music during a lively painting session. Unfortunately for you Asorel, this is a public page, in which anyone is welcome to post and contribute. Unlike my user page; which is for me to edit, and me alone. My talk page is an open forum where I have no right to delete anything(Something you haven't taken to heart with your talk page). My dispute with you is still open, and this same dispute is also for you and Triacom. Evilexecutive (talk) 20:20, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you Evilexecutive, I think that should settle that argument, and for the other argument: "Vandalism is the willful destruction of property with malicious intent;" That is exactly what you did when you blanked pages while putting them up for deletion! To do it without it being vandalism, you need to get other people to agree that this is a page that needs to be deleted, while having legitimate reasons for it being deleted, otherwise you are destroying other people's work because you think it shouldn't exist (which is malicious intent), which is also known as vandalism. Also you were the one who brought that into this discussion when you asked if you've ever done any vandalism, how can anyone answer that question without bringing up the pages you blanked? -- Triacom (talk) 20:42, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
And you will note that I have not claimed rules violation or anything similar, but the conventions of the wiki. Arguments about Heresy go in the Heresy page. Now that you have confirmed you are watching this page, is your opinion regarding your original accusation, and the actual topic of this section, unchanged in light of the evidence and reasoning that I have presented?
To Triacom: The point in contention is malicious intent. Whatever disagreements you may have with me, I would have hoped that you are not so obtuse that you attribute my removal to malice. My intent is to improve the wiki by removing pages that are unneeded, and I have on every occasion given reasons why when prompted. That you do not accept or do not like these reasons is of no concern to me. Now, can you understand that the square peg goes into the square whole, and continue these protests of yours in the proper place?--Asorel (talk) 21:09, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Personally (yes I do know that the first paragraph is to Evilexecutive) the reason I didn't join in the original argument was because I figured that Evilexecutive would find out why you did what you did without any sort of help, I also believe what you said regarding the changing of "men" to "jews" after you linked that app, and I would have stayed quiet had you not asked if you had vandalized any pages. This wiki is made up of many different users, all of whom should have equal say in what goes into an article, including you. Removing all of a pages contents in an effort to get it deleted despite what the other users say (it wasn't only me who has argued against you) is malicious. It shows that you don't care what the other users want, so long as the wiki gets "improved" only in ways you like. If you wanted to get rid of the Tubes page and started a discussion about it first, I can almost guarantee I'd have joined you because I can think of a few reasons it should be deleted. For the record "No reason to exist", "Is not funny", "Is not a meme" and "Is not informative" aren't valid reason for a page being deleted either. The only real valid reasons are "This page should not exist because" and then explaining why it isn't /tg/ related enough, or if a page has been merged with another page. Also you're the one who turned this into a discussion on your behaviour, so you shouldn't be upset when people comment on it. -- Triacom (talk) 21:50, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
A wiki is a database for information. If a page does not inform, it fails to serve the purpose of a wiki.
>so long as the wiki gets "improved" only in ways you like.
You want me to do...what? Change the wiki in ways that I think do not improve it?--Asorel (talk) 21:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Holy shit. You have no idea what 1D4chan is do you? This isn't a wiki just for information, it's a wiki that contains humour, stories, tactics, parodies, memes, budding ideas, homebrews, etc. One thing it is certainly NOT is another Wikipedia, or any sort of other standard wiki page. Why do you think there's barely any citations on anything? Because entries here are considered better when they're fun, rather than perfectly accurate, and so long as somebody can back up a claim in the discussion page when asked, there is no reason to have them on here. -- Triacom (talk) 22:06, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

How do I FAXIV?[edit]

I'd like to consider the intrinsic value of stuff to judge wether or not certain units, builds and strategies are worth paying for...but I can't understand the thing yet. How can a Rhino be undercosted at 45 but a Graviton cannon be worth amassing at 75? As in, I thought Rhinos were cheap enough to be good even for LoS blocking. And how do I factor things like FnP on T3 models? I can do probabilities & damage results vs point cost comparisons, is this relatable to FAXIV? -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 00:14, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, the idea is that a Rhino is undercosted, because it's worth more than its actual point cost. This isn't factoring in the ability to use it as a wall, just purely based on its stats. Because it's FAXIV value is greater than the actual cost, it's very much worth it to take. Okay, so here's the deal. A Rhino costs 35 points, but its 'worth' 45 points, so If I include a rhino in an 1850 point list, then my lists 'value' will be increased to 1860.

The same deal can be said for Grav-Cannons(Not the same as Graviton Cannons). They cost 35 points, but are 'worth' 75. So if I take 5 grav-cannons in an 1850 list(Assuming nothing else), the value of my army is actually 2050 points.Evilexecutive (talk) 00:38, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

As for FnP, the value added to a model should actually depend on the toughness of the model, exactly as you suspect. For a t3 model, I would(And don't quote me on this, because I need to experiment to figure it out) say that the intrinsic value of FnP on a t3 model is only a single point. But on a T4 model, its worth 3 points, 20 points on T5, and 75 points on T6. Ideally, you should be able to use such a scale to justify purchasing FnP on certain models. Evilexecutive (talk) 00:38, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
But looking at that scale, I don't think it's even remotely possible to justify giving FnP to T3, but on T6 it becomes an Auto-take. I would say that you can realistically only justify the cost on t4 models or better. Evilexecutive (talk) 00:38, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
Looks like I'm on the right track, but what I'm looking for is the actual prices. As in, how did you calculated it was 1pt for T3 and around 3pts for T4? I know this is common sense (and codex comparisons): Grav-cannons are actually worth BS*number of shots*type(AP2 and prone to wound), so the actual value would be (.66)*(5)*(15) = 49.5, BS would make a plasma rifle's true value different for guardsmen than for marines. But my real question kinda was "Where did the Rhino's +15 pts came from?", assuming AV10 transp is worth 30 on its own. Thus, it's 30(Rhino) + 5(self repair) + 10(???) -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 01:54, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
The Extra 10 points comes from the first increment on an Armour value, which is +5 for Av11, and +5 for the first increment on BS. Since the baseline is AV10, BS3, the value of its 45. As for the FnP, I'm just guestimating it by experience. But you're on a very good track with factoring in BS for the value of weapons, I like that! But I wouldn't factor it directly into the baselines for the weapons, but rather use that for the putting in other things. You could also further state that the Tactical Doctrine, or any other buff for To-Hit can temporarily boost the value of various weapons, so adding a shit-ton of Grav-Cannons to a list in a Battle Company(Two uses of tactical doctrine), has a greater effect on your value than putting them outside of said company.Evilexecutive (talk) 02:05, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
True that. You see, it all came to be because I was having trouble with estimating 30k stuff - FW balance is a clusterfuck, but at least things can be compared among themselves, specially when compared to 30k tactical marines. Sadly, FAXIV doesn't quite applies to 30k, although it does follow similar principles Managed to do a preliminar 30 FAXIV (it all started because I wanted to know the true value of Myrmidon Secutors), thanks man. I'm thinking of applying this on Tau Commanders & Farsight Bombs. I noted you didn't put TEQs in the unit comparison, and although I did manage to get the Captain's value using your rules, the same rules say Terminators are undercosted...but wasn't running Terminator-wings a bad idea? As in
Terminator is MEQ plus 2+ save, plus power weapon, plus twin-linked: 14+5+15+5 = 39, and that's without adding their invuln and deep strike (Relentless gets negated by no Sweep Advance). The main con against them is the high cost of antitank, but the missile launcher is worth 19 pts, and cyclone launchers are 2 shot versions of them costing only 6 pts more. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 03:16, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
Actually, this probably isn't how I would do terminators either, as I haven't finished out the baselines. Terminators aren't actually true TEQ, as really weird as that sounds. They're actually a Veteran Equivalent, as they have two enhanced stats above the MEQ statline, namely their Attacks, and Leadership. That being said, I do think straight SM Terminators are just.. Broken. They don't really seem to work right. But here's the value I would come up with. 16+5(Save increment), +15(Power Weapon Equivalent). So they come out to 36 points, which is still only slightly over. Missile Launchers are only barely better than the Plasma Gun because of their increased range, but the lowered AP is a massive hamper, and they have pretty much the same "Ability to Wound".
Forgeworld's Age of Darkness Armies; while they do have strange rules all over the place, they still work well for FAXIV. I did start making this system specifically for working out balance differences between 30k, 40k, and Fandexes. Evilexecutive (talk) 03:37, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
Speaking from experience, running Terminators in 30K is definitely not a bad idea, it's one of the reasons I play Death Guard (Terminators can be in every slot except Fast Attack) and there's so much AP3 in 30K that not having to worry about anything less than a siege cannon is quite nice. Normally you'll only have a big problem if you run against another persons' hard counters to Terminators (Fury of the Legion at half range will fuck them up), but so long as that never happens (ie you properly supported them) they can almost always earn their points back whether it's through killing enough of the enemy, holding objectives, or denying the enemy the objectives they need. It's for this reason that I'm not too sure a system like this works out that well, since certain factors would raise or lower the price of models in this system you've made (for example, if you attach a Reductor Magos with Rad Grenades to Scyllax, they can now all Instant Death MEQ's, which is a huge upgrade), unless you plan to factor that in later. -- Triacom (talk) 03:45, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
To clarify though, FAXIV is not at all a system meant to handle synergies, or general strategy(Like how the hell do I quantify the value of good positioning?..). It's really meant to determine at a glance how 'powerful' an army is. You can stretch an 1850 point army to 2500 all you please, but if you don't have good synergy and don't know what to do with it, it's not going to help you. I used this system to create an "Optimal" Raptors List which kicks ass, and kicks HARD! But it's also incredibly hard to play, and requires very good strategy. When you combine the two doctrines, you can make some rock solid lists.Evilexecutive (talk) 03:52, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
Yes, something like a multiplier instead of an additive system. The earlier guess he made of FNP follows something like that. Regarding Terminators, I do love them, but that's not my opinio: that's the statement found in the Tactica page. I do believe them, though, especially when it comes to de-mech enemy freaking AC AV14. Regarding 30k, one just has to take a different set of baselines because of the different meta it has, but yeah, it definitely works. I'll try different stuff and considerations for Mechanicum units, after all, MEQ, TEQ and stuff like that is too broad of a definition...and AdMech doesn't help by being so divergent. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 04:00, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Would it be ok if I link FAXIV statements to your user page?[edit]

Pretty much what says on the tin. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 03:49, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Sure, you can go ahead. I'm going to be putting up a fun new system for Monstrous Creatures pretty soon, by the way. Evilexecutive (talk) 03:50, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
On second hand, what if we make a page for it? I mean, it wouldn't feel right to edit your user page. I was going to post about T5 XV9s being better recipients of FnP, but noticed your FAXIV currently doesn't cover invuln and that kind of upgrades. -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 03:56, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
I've mulled over that for awhile, but that just seems kind of.. Prideful. I'm not exactly the most anonymous person in the wiki, and I don't necessarily want a whole second page on the wiki dedicated to something I muck around with on my spare time. That's what my user page is generally for. Besides, I'm pretty sure it'll fall under the nonsense of vanity pages, which violates the no Egoboos rule. Evilexecutive (talk) 04:14, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough, thanks :D . -- Zerghalo2 (talk) 04:29, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

To evilexecutive![edit]

A new part in the new ending for LCB has been made here

You can go ahead and post further thread notices directly to my talk page. Evilexecutive (talk) 23:28, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Love Can Bloom[edit]

Hello. In the interest of not spamming the poor LCB talk page, I would like to discuss this with you on your own talk page. You say, "I would just be worried about pleasing /tg/." This is somewhat... unclear, to be frank. The thread (, if it even exists in the near future, having fallen into the death that is trolls) is likely to perish soon, and the thread hardly matches the suptg archive website's qualifications for the archival of a thread. Do you refer to the community on 1d4chan?

Regards. --Woodbundle (talk) 02:54, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to setup a User writespace page for you to use for your Writing. Go ahead and click this link below to start your own writespace page. Once you're done, you might wish to copy the link(From the editor, not the reader), into your User Page so you can access it. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 02:56, 9 May 2016 (UTC)


"One page is all I need."
Emperor bless, brother. --Woodbundle (talk) 03:44, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

FAXIV on Grav-Cannons[edit]

I noticed you compiled the 75pt FAXIV value for Grav-Cannons based off its effectiveness against AP2. However have you averaged the points effectiveness against the various values of armor out there? I have personally experienced tough times when spamming grav against armor-less foes (such as Daemons), so it can be said that Grav-Cannons aren't constantly at 75pts value. They are still grossly effective for their cost, but I'm not sure they are truly 75pt effective.

Also I'm curious if you're ever going to break down statistical effectiveness into points values (i.e., boltgun has XX% of chance of killing a MEQ) and basing FAXIV off of that and tying in power increases by twin-linking, re-roll 1's to hit, etc. Remoon101 (talk) 14:59, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Primarch Creation Template[edit]

Hello. Long story short, I started writing up rules for the /tg/ heresy primarchs, and when people started expressing interest in the rules and balance behind creating them, I started making some Primarch creation templates. A lot of it is actually based on your FAXIV method, with appropriate changes made considering the significantly greater relative value of these rules and buffs on a primarch. If you have some time to waste, I'd appreciate it if you could give them a quick look over and give me some feedback on how balanced it may or may not be (currently they're located on my user page. You seem like the resident statistics guy, so you seem like the right guy to ask. Josman (talk) 01:45, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

What's your problem?[edit]

Why are you being such a jerk? Darthmustang (talk) 21:37, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Because I've been on this wiki for many years, and I have no intention of dealing with stupidity from newfags who don't understand the point of a wiki, or will even listen to reason. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 21:39, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
      • I understand the point of a wiki just fine. People have multiple different viewpoints, with many differing strategies. If you look at top tournament lists over the years, there have been plenty of different things going on. Just because you don't agree with someone or something doesn't make it wrong. The only stupid person in any of these arguments is you. You need to chill out man - you're not anything special, you're just some guy with an opinion like me. Darthmustang (talk) 21:45, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
I am an asshole, I don't care. Your opinion literally doesn't matter to me because I don't consider subhumans capable of forming valid opinions. You put a genuinely terrible set of advice on the tactics pages, with every intention of misleading other space marine players into doing something incredibly retarded with their lists. I maintain this page, therefore it's my duty to make sure it's up to decent quality standards. Evil Executive, CEO of Evil Incorporated (talk) 21:47, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
  • Dude, you're fucking insane. Peace Darthmustang (talk) 21:50, 21 July 2017 (UTC)